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00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

12:01 AM
I think this is due to a bug in the libraries somehow,
idk what else it could be
I am not an all round expert but this is weird
 
@Mysticial Bwahahaha, thats amazing xD
What did they even expect
 
@trilolil No, that would be an error in the C++ parser itself
which should be unlikely.
 
it is weird that using coliru as you did it outputs exactly what I need, but doesn t on my system
while I did a pale copy paste
 
@trilolil what is param
 
@VermillionAzure QStringList
 
12:06 AM
@trilolil That might be why
It could possibly be placing the escaped versions of strings inside
 
@VermillionAzure what solution do you think I have?
 
@trilolil don't understand your wording
 
@VermillionAzure what do you suggest
as a workaround
I need those double quotes otherwise it doesn t work
 
@trilolil how good is your google-fu
 
at 2 am not great
 
if I understood it correctly:
I tried this:
    params << "-c ""import imp; foo = imp.load_source('myTest', '/home/yalishanda/openface/demos/myTest.py'); foo.myTestFunction() "" ";
and obtained this:
("-c import imp; foo = imp.load_source('myTest', '/home/yalishanda/openface/demos/myTest.py'); foo.myTestFunction()  ")
hence that my double quote before the word import and at the end are gone
 
don’t use "", that’s not how you escape you’re merging literals
 
@LucDanton He's working with QString or something like that
 
@LucDanton yes but what other solution is there left to try, the usual way doesn t seem to work?
 
No idea what's happening
 
12:15 AM
23 mins ago, by Luc Danton
@trilolil looks correct to me
 
@trilolil If it's 2am, why not sleep?
 
@VermillionAzure because I want to have that before going to sleep
 
double check your expectations with respect to displaying a QStringList
 
@LucDanton Doesn t work
 
12:17 AM
things looking correct to me doesn’t work? what does that mean?
 
@LucDanton means that it doesn t work, because smth isn t correct
 
wokay
it’s probably the universe’s fault
 
if everything was correct (regarding the function, datatypes or anything else) it would work
yet it doesn't, so this means smth isn t correct
QProcess p;
QStringList params;
params << "-c \"import imp; foo = imp.load_source('myTest', '/home/yalishanda/openface/demos/myTest.py'); foo.myTestFunction() \" ";
qDebug()<<params;
p.start("python2 ", params);
p.waitForFinished(-1);
QString p_stdout = p.readAll();
qDebug()<<p_stdout;
qDebug()<<"ran py script";
This is all there is to look at on my side so the error can t be very far away
and I know the path is correct because
typing this in my terminal works:
python2 -c "import imp; foo = imp.load_source('myTest', '/home/yalishanda/openface/demos/myTest.py'); foo.myTestFunction();"
which is what I am actually trying to replicate via software now
 
1:08 AM
 
1:31 AM
@Telkitty That's not a chicken. It's a Russian Air Force jet.
 
trump chicken looks somewhat fatter than the air force jet - I mean, it could be the feathers ...
 
2:14 AM
@LucDanton I remember Necro being good once. Once.
 
Go to coffee shop, wait for ReSharper to parse project, coffee shop closes.
 
@AdebayoAdelabu You Forgot To Use Dramatic Title Case
 
True.
But chill necro worked very well in PvP and WvW IIRC
And that's even before HoT
 
meaning it could apply chill, with gusto
 
Also there was the famous condi spam necro that was inevitably taken down 1st in zergs
In PvP the bleed necro also worked fine
 
2:27 AM
condis didn’t really stick to zergs pre-HoT, there was a heavy anti-condi bend
it was all about the well bombs
 
I have an awesome startup idea - 3D printer with 3D scanner
it's for the preparation of space exploration
too expensive to send the items to the space, so instead, you scan the item and send information of how those items are made to the other end and the other end can re-assemble (3D print) from those info ...
 
@AdebayoAdelabu out of curiosity, I checked: I would need 154h of playtime on Guardian (i.e. my second most played profession) to exceed my time played on Necro
 
From this incomplete data I deduce that necro is your most played profession
 
how did u known
 
on ne me cache rien
 
2:42 AM
that reminds me, another idea for you: start a Patreon-supported webz for whichever gaems with APIs etc.
 
> Pro-tip if you ever go to Paris : Ask for a "chocolatine" in a bakery. You won't be disappointed.
@LucDanton Tell me more, that seems interesting
 
@AdebayoAdelabu ya know, things like this or this to take the GW2 API as an example
> Dawg6 is correct. We currently have nothing to announce in terms of HearthStone public APIs.
Blizzard continues to suck
> Yes it is! We're hopeful that Hearthstone APIs will be arriving Very Soon(TM)
the year before, from the same person
 
lmao
So, expose a public API proxy for those games who provide an API, and a custom API for those that don't?
That's actually a really good idea
 
So, for those that don't play many games, why would you want an API for a video game?
 
To automate some stuff
 
2:56 AM
For bots or AI?
 
For example you want to build an optimal combination of items according to some criteria, or see if you can make money on the market by trading a set of items, etc
 
@Mikhail a big appeal of GW2 is things like collectibles and rare, often expensive stuffs. gw2efficiency plays into that into making it possible for a user to flaunt their account, e.g. there are several global rankings of gw2efficiency users
@AdebayoAdelabu indeed, the other killer feature of gw2efficiency is the crafting calculator (the API hands out all publicly known recipes, but it’s a bitch to compute things from there)
> Rank 30,028
> You are higher than 78% of 137,401 accounts.
that’s me with my ~34k account worth
it looks like the #1 rank in Broken Spoons holds 602 utensils
 
truly a dedicated player
 
@Mikhail I also have 9 characters, meaning I have 9 separate inventories to juggle on top of my bank. sometimes I forget where I put my super shiny +3 of power and gw2efficiency lets me search all inventories at once, which I can’t do in-game
so, the actual game client isn’t moddable but the API makes it possible to write companion websites or apps or whatever
for another example gw2 features a persistent, competitive world vs. world game mode. the API makes it possible to track how badly your world is doing even from outside the game
 
lol good to see france is still terrible at wvw
 
3:06 AM
also featuring your world
 
tbf deso & piken square are extremely annoying opponents in my memory
rip merde jade
 
btw that world linking means that if you and I hopped in the game right now we could wvw
 
what's the world linking for btw? compensate for lack of players?
 
ye, the lower tier worlds were deader than ded
 
doesn't seem to be helping blue
 
3:10 AM
is luc a full time gamer?
timezone says he is ...
 
Oct 16 '16 at 4:10, by Luc Danton
I misspoke btw, I meant to say it’s the first real time I did wvw since they started grouping worlds together
 
huh, just realized there's a new map (red borderlands)
 
I forget things :p
 
sorry grampa didn’t mean to pile on you
 
3:13 AM
@AdebayoAdelabu maybe it's the on set of dementia, we are always here for you ... in case you want to share your passwords info so you are never able to log in?
 
Man, one thing C++ needs is a CAS system. I need to do symbolic manipulation without having to crack pipe to MATLAB/Mathematica
 
gotta calibrate that airspeed indeed
 
when your step through the code and your debug point disappear into oblivion ...
like a hunting dog runs into the woods to chase a prey and never returns
 
?
I mean I wrote an equation with symbols, some transcendental functions, and I need to simplify, or solve it
Computer Algebra System
 
3:20 AM
use bash script
C++ is only for sanitise data
 
sanitize
 
use bash or perl scripts to send santised data into matlab
 
contemplating writing a bot that corrects British English on SO
 
trust me, having a hobby chicken farm will give you more purpose in life
 
@Mikhail No, you wanted a CAS system, I gave you a CAS system. Stop moving the goalposts!
 
3:22 AM
I grow lots of things, like HeLa cells, zebra fish, sometimes we have cow embryos
 
you absolute madman
 
embryos != the real thing
 
Yeah, but I can 70 cows on a 35mm dish
Its like fucking caviar, but with cows
also brains
 
@Mikhail how much of these cells would you say you have
 
The HeLa cells can be grown out indefinitely, basically as long as I can feed them FBS.
 
3:26 AM
a correct answer to the setup could have been 'hella'
 
:-(
 
can you dupe your supervisor into giving you the permission to have a bunch of emu eggs embryos ?
 
not sure hyper-v can do that
 
I think hypercard can pull it
@Telkitty Here is the problem, if I wanted to raise emus for personal food, I could do it, and actually I can do whatever the fuck with them. NOW, if I want to do science I need to write 15 pages of bullshit and wait a year to get approval from two institutions.
 
3:32 AM
but isn’t the result all the more delicious tho
 
ça m’émeut pas vraiment
 
4:11 AM
1 message moved to Trash can
wtf mate
 
4:53 AM
I love ES
 
5:20 AM
I just took a ton of time asking a question and getting rid of all the unnecessary code and information. While I was doing that I found the simple mistake. Lol, all that time taken...
 
that’s all the time needed to fix the mistake
 
Yup
 
5:33 AM
@LucDanton Do you play DotA 2 btw
 
@AdebayoAdelabu haven’t for a long time :( as much I loved playing it, I could not justify introducing it to friends (although I've had TI parties here and there). game’s quirky enough as it is, and the awful community makes it not worth it imo
 
Yes community is absolute garbage
 
and I lost touch with my Dota 2 crowd
> Top Player - Kills
I got exactly one
then again why didn’t I go for the Skyhammer with my stupid physical build
 
5:49 AM
I miss my cancer skyhammer build
 
6:01 AM
@AdebayoAdelabu I improved the build by 150% by not memeing with the hammer any longer and pulling it out the greatsword instead, as per usual
 
@Xeo Up through ep5 for Made in Abyss.
 
 
2 hours later…
Xeo
7:45 AM
@Mysticial Good boy
How do you like it so far?
 
 
1 hour later…
9:04 AM
Lounge is dead
I see the same starboard for more than 3 days
 
nwp
std::vector<Incomplete_type> v{}; should totally compile in a header
or maybe I should stop putting {} after every member
I think it would be possible if they specialized on an empty initializer list.
 
before automatic refactoring:
static final int LAZY_1[], LAZY_2[][], LAZY_3[][][], LAZY_4[][][][], LAZY_5[][][][][], LAZY_6[][][][][][];

after automatic refactoring:
static final int LAZY_1[];
static final int LAZY_2[][];
static final int LAZY_3[][][];
static final int LAZY_4[][][][];
static final int LAZY_5[][][][][];
static final int[][][][][][] LAZY_6;
Good job, JetBrains... :)
 
marvellous!
 
> automatic refactoring
java is basically unwriteable language at this point
 
good point, actually
who really needs an automatic refactoring?
 
9:17 AM
people who use tools to generate buttloads of code
 
nwp
Yes, those millions of Java programmers are just a marketing gag.
 
(interns are tools)
@nwp no, they're a mass of people writing masses of relatively simple code
it's all about quantity there
 
nwp
This is so ridiculous I don't even get angry at people being wrong anymore.
 
oh I'm sure your years of experience with java codebases made you think otherwise
I mean I don't mind that there are people who think writing java is fun and geeky programming thing, at least I don't have to do it
I suppose for most of the mundane programming tasks it's the perfect tool for the job, like PHP
My only gripe is when java programmers act as if they were people.
13
 
9:30 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Did you apply?
 
nwp
If you hate furries you are not alone.
 
@Horttanainen nah. Also got another interesting offer/posting.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Okay
 
@nwp ...duh!
@Horttanainen I actually like it here but I believe in constant lookout for new
 
@BartekBanachewicz I agree
@BartekBanachewicz I am outta this place as soon as my Masters thesis project is done
 
9:38 AM
also I need to plan my route for saturday
I really don't want to drive on the highways
 
@BartekBanachewicz Because most verbose regulars have moved to Discord
 
@AdebayoAdelabu dunno send me a link
 
What's great about discord?
 
not much
it's a chat and voice thing
it generally works
 
Well why did they move there?
 
9:44 AM
because there are no SO moderators there
and it's private
 
Send me a link also
 
@BartekBanachewicz Nobody thinks Java is fun and geeky, but Java (and its ecosystem) is perfectly adequate for writing business applications and stuff.
 
@fredoverflow if only "you're perfectly adequate" was a compliment
 
omg the audio "quality", initially I couldn't even tell if this was English or not.
 
9:50 AM
@fredoverflow It is better to watch it on 1.5 speed so you learn faster
 
@Horttanainen Oh, you can speed YouTube videos up? TIL
 
I have a philosophic question to ask: can a easy language be versatile?
html is pretty easy ...
 
@Telkitty check lambda calculus
 
@Horttanainen And I was going to suggest LISP...
@Telkitty What exactly do you mean by "versatile"?
Also, "a easy language"; what is that, easy English?
 
@fredoverflow She mentioned Html so I took it as "small"
 
9:57 AM
LISP is way simpler than HTML, isn't it?
 
@fredoverflow yep
 
But I was thinking Scheme when I suggested lambda calculus
 
> "I'm not gonna play your bullshit game. I've already expressed my views on moderation and power abuse on SO chat and I won't repeat it again. If this room is gonna turn into the same thing then I don't want a part of it - 2016-07-12 15:34 UTC by bananu7#9619 in #lounge (ID: 202447598966013952)"
cough
 
> Albeit this proposal could have been a rather minimalistic proposal [...], the author prefers to do it the harder way [...].
C++ proposals in a nutshell.
 
10:04 AM
@AdebayoAdelabu took you a while to find
 
Nah it's in the #news channel, just had to scroll up a screen or so.
 
oh well whatever then
if it's the same as it was when I left then nvm
 
It's gotten worse, Elim has been banning people left and right
the room is practically dead now
 
@AdebayoAdelabu I don't believe you, obviously
 
10:06 AM
no selfies, telkitty
6
 
go on, make me proud!
 
@Telkitty At first I thought you had a red flower in your hair :)
 
yeah, extra head coz need those hands to take that selfie
 
@fredoverflow Even after you said that it took me a while to realize xD
 
10:43 AM
btw
I have to admit it's way calmer than the people have been painting it
I don't really agree with everything he said, and he's assuming that he's "uncovering" something "wrong" while in reality he overshoots as well
but it's also not like he said "women are unfit for programming" at all
 
11:10 AM
Aren't they?
 
11:27 AM
@Morwenn found another creature on the photo (no spoilers) only after your message, damn I'm blind!
 
@login_not_failed We all are :p
 
12:13 PM
Seriously though, if you claim to have an elite team, you better impress people of the things you are capable of achieving. I only care about the end result. People were on the moon 50 years ago, internet was created around the same time. Computer and cars was invented even before that.
And I see little progress
 
@Telkitty I've seen extensive progress in porn.
 
I agree ... that and nuclear bombs ...
 
And speed of overall communications.
Also our spacecrafts are better than before. It's just that landing anywhere is not nearly as useful as we'd like to.
I guess the next step will be mining asteroids.
 
hitch hiking an asteroid would be nice
 
Somewhat reusable rockets is also a recent improvement.
 
12:18 PM
cockroaches have been doing well since developed country always have abundant food available for them
 
Honestly, all improvements are not as big and shiny as « landing on the Moon » or « the internet », but there's constant improvements in a shitton of domains.
 
@Borgleader woop
@Telkitty wow you must have a terrible eyesight then
using namespace sc2;
woah :D
 
I am comparing the progress humans have been making during 1935-1965 to now
 
@BartekBanachewicz StarCraft 2?
 
there were less people and more breaking discoveries ... and the whole world war to take care of ...
 
12:23 PM
@fredoverflow yes
 
@xlrg I don't know what's the overhead, this is the reason I prefer to roll my own. But the examples you showed me are great I will try it. — DontCareBear 21 mins ago
Flaunt that NIH syndrome
 
mmm I think I finally get how Race Tech mods to the suspension work
now I'm tempted to put them in my bike
 
Breakage in 5... 4... 3... 2...
 
> the oil's resistance to flow increases at the square of its velocity-move the oil twice as fast and you'll get four times the resistance.
@sehe you actually need to destroy the original suspension because it offloads the damping to the component you install
I'm actually amazed that modern motorbikes are made with such primitive damping, considering that a modern bicycle fork will have much more complex setup, and won't certainly cost more
well the high end ones might but still
dunno if they assume that people just won't care for better suspension or what
also my pet peeve, why they don't have remote control for the suspension other than super expensive semi-active electronic systems
it's like, so much easier to do on a motorbike, considering you have spare kgs without problems and all forks are double (reaching the bars)
 
1:04 PM
27
A: Fastest way to set all values of an array?

Ross DrewAs another option and for posterity I was looking into this recently and found this article which offers a solution that allows a much shorter loop by handing some of the work off to the System class, which (if the JVM you're using is smart enough) can be turned into a memset operation:- /* * i...

lol micro-optimizations
 
1:29 PM
@fredoverflow What, don't they just manually SIMD the fuck out of it? :D
 
 
1 hour later…
Hi guys. I only know some C, but I need to check if a string is empty, here - github.com/sass/node-sass/blob/… - to be exact. Is doing if (err[0] == '\0') a bad thing in c++?
The string is const char* err, not string or anything like that
I think if it's a char*, then it contains ascii only? No idea, but from what I remember multibyte characters don't use char type
 
nwp
@Misiur wrong room go here
 
I'm asking if that's acceptable in C++
oh sorry
url looked like C only
 
@Misiur this is the off topic room
that's the on topic room
 
@Mgetz LTT shows only two benchmarks where the 16-core TR loses to the 10-core Skylake X:
^^ ahahahaha - AVX
 
2:35 PM
@Mysticial basically everything is telling me that unless you need AVX512 get threadripper
 
Not sure if he's running the AVX or AVX512 version for my benchmark. But there's not a huge difference between them.
 
this horror is terrible - lipstick gets eaten by a dog ... I mean ... seriously?
 
3:00 PM
what's the difference between a ghost who only knows how to scare people and a salted fish?
err .. salted fish isn't exactly scary ... and you can't get full by eating ghost ...
 
good morning
 
3:17 PM
@Mgetz Or pure single-threaded code.
Though this is telling: arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/08/…
When you compare the 10-core Skylake to 16-core TR at maximum achieved overclock, the Skylake is almost neck-and-neck for the majority of even the threaded benchmarks.
Since TR doesn't want to OC past 3.9 GHz, but the Skylake will do 4.6 GHz easily - limited only by thermals.
I currently run my own 10-core Skylake X at 4.5 GHz all-core non-AVX.
What's with this?
Is chromium compile single-threaded?
 
the compile process' bottleneck maybe
 
So far, the benchmarks look as I had expected. The only benchmarks where TR loses is single-threaded and AVX. But the 10-core Skylake isn't losing as badly as I expected it to when it should.
In the case of AVX, TR loses by a very slim margin. Since 10 vs. 16 cores is a lot for AVX to make up for. And most AVX code will not scale perfectly.
 
3:37 PM
@Mysticial Was about to send that link
Seems like a good offering from AMD (unless you really need AVX)
 
@Borgleader I've seen at least 2 people over at OCN either cancel their TR order or chose to buy the 7900X in light of the TR benchmarks.
Mainly because it's the overclocked benchmarks that matter to them.
But there's still a lot more people jumping on TR because yes, it destroys Intel in everything suitably threaded.
And very few of the reviewers ran anything that uses AVX.
I'd like to get my hands on a TR to test out how strong the NUMA is. My experience with NUMA on the multi-socket systems has been nothing but bad. But TR is more tightly coupled since it's on the same chip.
Since none of the reviewers are HPC-oriented, so they don't really know how to test the NUMA.
 
they don't generally specify if the program used AVX/AVX2/AVX512 :(
 
@Froglegs Because they don't know. Right now, almost every single reviewer out there that uses Prime95 thinks it uses AVX512 because AVX512 showed up in the change log for the latest version of the program.
But in fact it only uses it for a hidden feature in Prime95, and not the FFT stress-test.
So everybody is saying, "Prime95 pulls 360W @ 4.6 GHz, holy shit!!!"
They haven't seen shit yet.
 
looking at this benchmark sisoftware.eu/2017/06/23/… it seems pretty clear i9 is way better at number crunching(I just asssume threadripper is ~2x the 1700x)
 
I can almost do 360W that at 4.0 GHz with y-cruncher if I overclock the memory and cache enough to lift those bottlenecks.
IOW, the past couple years, the hardware has gotten so sophisticated that mainstream reviewers are no longer able to review them properly because they don't understand the hardware enough. That's not a stab at them by any means, but it's just that the field has shifted.
 
4:01 PM
each benchmarks is also unlikely to hit the same bottleneck on every bit of hardware
 
4:12 PM
@Mysticial That makes sense, but from a more regular user standpoint (were still talking about someone willing to drop a grand on a cpu) its pretty tasty
i wonder how fast you can compile boost with this >.>
 
4:37 PM
Another interesting question is is if a dual socket 2013 xeon system would win
You can get 8 core xeons for like $350, so mobo + 2 CPU's is around $1k and gives you 16 cores @ 2.2 ghz but double the memory bandwidth (I think)
 
4:57 PM
@Mysticial then write MysticalMark that beats the crap out of CPUs left right and center
or let's call it what it will really be: CPUDestroyer
 
lol
 
"If your CPU is still usable after this test it's probably good"
 
5:41 PM
@Froglegs Doubling AMDs score in many of those benchmarks would actually beat the i9, or in a few cases, absolutely fuckin' flatten it. But more generally, since AMD offers way more e.g. PCIe lanes, it's really on Intel to have better performance now
 
@Puppy The only uses I know of for that many PCIe lanes is 3-way SLI/crossfire, or a shit-ton of NVMe PCIe drives. (like 12 of them)
GPU compute systems that need cross-card traffic will like it. That's more common in HPC though.
 
@Mysticial ECC memory?
 
5:56 PM
@Puppy Memory doesn't use PCIe lanes.
 
I mean, TR offers ECC memory and Intel requires that you buy a Xeon to get it
 
Oh yeah. That's just Intel being a douche.
 
and now it'll be harder for them to be douches when AMD are counter-douching them
 
I'm very curious at how AMD is affecting Intel's long term plans.
Especially down at the consumer end.
 
@Puppy AMD has done this on and off for awhile
 
5:58 PM
AMD has a socket that's ready to shove 32 cores into it whenever they feel like it. (though it might take some work to get it to 8 channel)
While Intel is still playing this "give all the shit to the consumers" game.
 
the problem at the mid and low end is the high IPC for Intel cores
if you just wanna play Starcraft 2 then 32 cores won't benefit you that much
 
Gaming isn't the only thing people buy these chips for. (and they're not meant for it anyway)
 
then again I think that AMD still offers very low prices for those
 
You just hear about it a lot because gamers tend to get all the attention.
I want to see if Intel is forced to put their XCC chips into the consumer end.
 
because there are so many of us and we're great
but I think that Intel is partly gonna be banking on 10nm to come and save them from AMD
since AMD have barely caught up in 14nm I think they are behind substantially on 10nm process
not sure though
 
6:02 PM
There's also a chicken-egg problem with games. They aren't threaded because there gamers don't have high-core-count CPUs. And they don't buy high-core-count CPUs because games aren't threaded.
 
I think that nearly all gamers are quad-core by now
but thanks to AMD I imagine the proportion of highly-cored gamers is gonna go up
 
@Puppy I think it's the other way around. GF is saying they'll have 7nm ready in the same timeframe as Intel's 10nm. If that's true, Intel's got bigger problems down the road.
 
if they can beat Intel to a big process improvement
Intel are fucked
 
There's going to be some imbalance. GF is skipping 10nm. So if Intel gets 10nm long before GF gets 7nm, then AMD will be fucked during that duration. But if GF gets 7nm before or shortly after Intel can do 10nm, then Intel is fucked.
But either way, AMD is pretty lucky to be in the position it's currently in. Had Intel not shot itself with all the market segmentation, AMD would've had no way to enter the market.
 
6:34 PM
C?
 
no
 
6:52 PM
I'l so bored .____.
Family is either in the Alps or in North Korea.
 
nwp
@Telkitty I may have found your soul mate here.
 
Friends are not available tonight or not answering.
 
what, I'm not your friend?
 
Are you available tonight to drink a beer in a pub in Brest?
 
yes.
 
6:55 PM
Waiting for you then.
 
I'm at the Laughing Calf
 
Too bad, Google Maps can't find that x)
 
 
2 hours later…
8:31 PM
@jaggedSpire Bloody brilliant. I employed the youth (18+19) for help. They fucked up royally though. +1 + star for effort though. I had 6 backup doughs, I needed five =) So apart from a non noticable delay, everything went great. I was soaked by the time I got my pizza though. Extremely tasty if I may say so. And the evening was great fun!
 
8:45 PM
Using a word and then immediately replacing it with a stronger one—as in “I’m very happy—no, ecstatic to be here!”—is called EPANORTHOSIS.
Well. This beautiful word generated a fair number of expectable - no, predictable replies
@CaptainGiraffe Wow. That's engineering at scale
@Horttanainen I admit that after having pondered for a few days, I resorted to chat history search to find what "patience" thing that was referring to again... I should probably install more memory :)
Sometimes after allowing patience to settle things, you do have to actively re-engage with the material to rejiggle it. Many of the important lessons I learned (from music teachers, e.g.) have only settled in after years. Sometimes decades.
 
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