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@Mgetz depends what you mean by "interface"!
@Horttanainen not safe for use across DLLs/SOs that's in effect a Pimpl
There are no pimpls :D
@BoundaryImposition I'm being strict theory here, I'm aware that interface is a loaded term
god damnit
@Mgetz pastebin.com/KuaYLBwd Without non-virtual interface pattern.
13:02
@LucDanton He was way ahead of the elliptic curve :)
@Horttanainen that should work yes
@BoundaryImposition Hard disk full? Failing?
@Mgetz I want you to understand that there are no differences
The calls go through the same header file no matter what
@Horttanainen there are actually differences, mostly involving bin compat and layout
user1804599
Woo, let's implement garbage collection.
13:04
@sehe no evidence of a storage problem
@Mgetz Huh. I /think/ COM interfaces are usually made explicitly, not aliased with the C++ vtables?
most compilers create a separate implementation of inline methods not marked as inline because people make take pointers to them
@sehe no they are the vtables, it's pretty well documented they designed it explicitly for this purpose
"make take pointers to them"?
may take
@6EQUJ5 pointer to member function
13:05
@Mgetz could be. Still depends on who implement the COM class how. I know I didn't use that. Perhaps when I was using ATL - but unknowingly
@BoundaryImposition Maybe one at the time (spotify tends to use much IO historically)? You /did/ reboot, so it may have been transient
@sehe it's all compiler magic in C++, you wouldn't have seen it unless you were doing it in C
Again.
You need a meta-collector to collect unreference garbage collector implementations
user1804599
:[
user1804599
@sehe This one is simple though.
13:06
@Mgetz It's not any different in C++. Unless you conflate C++ with ATL, MFC, C++-cli Interop, midl.exe etc.
user1804599
One loop, no recursion.
Could somebody confirm what @mgetz is saying? Is there a difference in these: https://pastebin.com/KuaYLBwd
https://pastebin.com/r9UvcrdE

Is the non-virtual interface patter somehow preventing me form passing this object across dll boundaries which may live in different CRTs?
@sehe not sure what you mean here. My point was you wouldn't have had to explicitly worry about vtable construction unless you were in C
user1804599
Can you get the corresponding forward iterator for a reversed iterator on a vector?
@Horttanainen nice to know I'm untrustworthy
13:08
@Mgetz I trust you but I still dont understand
@Horttanainen so when you have a method not marked as inline in a class definition, the compiler must still define an actual procedure for it. It has to do this because someone can go and do auto foo = &IMyMostlyVirtualInterface::foo;
and grab a pointer to member function
@Mgetz What is the use of pointer-to-member-functions?
@6EQUJ5 I've used them before when I didn't want to do inheritance and I wanted strategy pattern. I've also used them for callbacks
@Mgetz "wouldn't have had to" is subjective. It depends on which tools you pre-suppose (as if they were mandatory. Which they are not)
@sehe nah I/O is fine and can't see how it's relevant to the symptoms tbh
(well, as "fine" as it ever is on this thing)
((decent laptop but slow mechanical drive + encryption + I'm doing a lot on it == ugh))
13:11
If spotify hits the disk hard while it's near capacity, starvation and/or corruption could occur in other applications
@Mgetz Why not call the member functions directly? Wondering...
@sehe I suspect we're talking orthogonal to each other
Yeah, you're evading my point :)
Is ok, but don't paint me as the one oblivious
@sehe the problem is persistent until reboot long after the hung Spotify process has been killed
@6EQUJ5 because I didn't want to crap ifs all over the place
13:12
there's a graphics incompatibility somewhere I'm almost sure of it
> corruption, (is why I think of)
@sehe I think I'm missing your point so you're spot on that I'm the oblivious one here
@Mgetz So making the non-virtual interface patterns public methods inline would prevent this? I am sorry but you are talking to an idiot. Bear with me
@Mgetz :) Let's drop it then. No biggie
13:13
well there's gigs and gigs free in terms of storage space and I/O is nominal so
@BoundaryImposition or the max number of window handles has been exceeded
@ratchetfreak I can open other stuff. the effect is quite specific
the window class is maybe corrupted
@Horttanainen potentially, I would avoid it as there are still a LOT of potential issues there, the most common use for that would be to handle defaulted parameters. But anything more is probably of questionable safety
@ratchetfreak hmm you can actually check this
@BoundaryImposition If something did cause the system to crap itself, then that condition and/or the subsequent shutdown may have led to persistent corruption. Not all programs (notably, Photo Viewer?) use RDBMS quality databases.
@BoundaryImposition Try sysmon tools
I'm going afk
13:15
@Mgetz Fair enough. I really don't need the non-virtual interface here so I will drop it.
@Mgetz How come you know so much of this?
keep in mind that an inline function may still compile to a call across the dll boundary
@Horttanainen he learnt it by working with Kotlin
@BoundaryImposition Ah Awesome. Kotlin truly is the best
ITT rightfold learning basics of C++
did someone erase Haskell from history or something?
13:17
@Horttanainen because I spent way too much time being curious about things that I'll never use
Ven
Ven
@BoundaryImposition still fine and dandy
@Mgetz Well you got me interested. Any good books?
@gregcons I was gonna blurt "Canadians". Oh wait...
Lol. Kate is Canadian
Kate is the polar bearess?
Basically, a'laska
"because I didn't want to crap ifs all over the place"

Do you mean you want to pass the pointer to member function as an argument? I never heard of a pointer to member function until now.
@Horttanainen if you're really curious COM in plain C explains the vtable bit, the rest I got from being around here
@BoundaryImposition just archive under "unbearable puns"
user1804599
auto new_it = values.erase(it.base());
it = decltype(values)::reverse_iterator(new_it);
user1804599
:)
13:21
@Mgetz Hey thanks. I will read it right away
@Horttanainen not sure I'd bother unless you're really curious, it's better to know that making things complicated across SO/DLL boundaries it is likely to bite you
@rightfold Wouldn't it = values.erase(it.base()); be equivalent? Or at least it = { values.erase(it.base()) };
user1804599
No, there is no implicit conversion to reverse iterator.
user1804599
src/alloc.cpp: In member function ‘void slakken::alloc::collect_garbage()’:
src/alloc.cpp:58:10: error: converting to ‘const std::reverse_iterator<__gnu_cxx::__normal_iterator<std::unique_ptr<const slakken::value, slakken::alloc::value_delete>*, std::vector<std::unique_ptr<const slakken::value, slakken::alloc::value_delete> > > >’ from initializer list would use explicit constructor ‘std::reverse_iterator<_Iterator>::reverse_iterator(std::reverse_iterator<_Iterator>::iterator_type) [with _Iterator = __gnu_cxx::__normal_iterator<std::unique_ptr<const slakken::value, slakken::alloc::value_del
13:24
@Mgetz Are you kidding? This article seems to be gold and should be read even if not interested
user1804599
All I have to do now is check if the object has at least one root reference.
#define canal reference
@BoundaryImposition s/c// hehehe
@BoundaryImposition root_canal
'sactly
once worked with a customer who insisted on calling UID 0 the "route" account lol
13:31
@thecoshman where are you from?
guess he'd gone "rouge"
@Abyx The highseas
@BoundaryImposition is that a commentary on Louisiana?
user1804599
I'll make an interface that can report roots and call it soil.
13:34
@Mgetz a commentary on people not being able to spell "rogue"
@rightfold :D
@rightfold You should sell your skill at naming stuff. It's sometimes impressive.
@BoundaryImposition mine was a bad joke off of "Baton Rouge" the capital of Louisiana; a state not known for investing in education
ok
they certainly haven't invested in educating me about their existence
You're terrible at geography.
@Cauterite var x = new Foo(); will be coming in Java...
13:37
@R.MartinhoFernandes sorry haven't memorised names of random cities in USA
@Horttanainen Brand new? Kotlin started in 2011.
@fredoverflow And that is what is so kotlin about it
@BoundaryImposition To redeem yourself, please point to New Zealand in this world map humanprogress.org/story/3182
What do you call a programmer who doesn't like Kotlin?
Notlin
7
@R.MartinhoFernandes SSW of 2014 ;)
13:39
@fredoverflow Nice one :D
@fredoverflow jesus
@R.MartinhoFernandes or just zoom out
@R.MartinhoFernandes that goverment one is hilarious
surely deliberate?
@R.MartinhoFernandes meh, inset innit. saves space.
13:42
@BoundaryImposition Just funny in context.
look closely & you'll see a white border
@R.MartinhoFernandes mehhh
user1804599
Now I can also make a root smart pointer which implements the soil interface.
rebooting wish me luck
@BoundaryImposition Maybe this one you'll enjoy. The Flat Earth Society logo 68.media.tumblr.com/c41e0821f425268e90cd36caa01f95c0/…
user1804599
13:45
klootzak
^ This is the most hilarious video I have seen in a very long time.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Where is Antarctica? :o
user1804599
The Sun is also flat.
user1804599
The Moon is also flat.
@Morwenn Antarctica is just a portion of ice surrounding the Earth.
Not depicted.
At the end of it there are the ice walls.
Get with the times.
13:50
The Sun is fat.
The Moon is also fat.
I corrected it for you
user1804599
Is Catch still the recommended unit testing library?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh right, of course.
@rightfold I guess. Apparently, it even got a bit faster.
user1804599
Hmm.
@thecoshman thought it was "kindergarten"
13:56
@Abyx that's in the future, maybe
@Telkitty celestial fat shaming, what are red giants coming to
@rightfold Functional programmers love the flat earth people because they have flatMap.
user1804599
So that's why they join the Flat Earth Society.
14:02
:)
@fredoverflow lol
@fredoverflow lol, SEX@8:33 :D
@wilx Why would "they" put SEX in the clouds, anyway?
@fredoverflow I would! :D It is on my mind 1/3rd of a time
14:07
@fredoverflow To fuck with you.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Haha.
@wilx But that's just biologic normality, it doesn't prove there's a conspiracy going on.
@fredoverflow ML370?
> I don't see why they would put this in. Unless they know that this is gonna come out, and they... I don't know, it doesn't make sense, guys. I'm really confused.
lol he doesn't even have a point
Oh wait, mind control? rofl
@Mgetz Do you mean MH370?
Do flat earthers have an explanation for the dissapearance of MH370? Did it fly over Antarctica and fall off the earth?
@wilx Have you reached the point about the costs of the earth paintings yet? :)
@fredoverflow Yes. :D
14:20
@wilx In case you were wondering, the other World Of Batshit videos are just as funny.
@fredoverflow I do, but I was lacking a cup of tea
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: K O T L I N [c++] [c++11] [c++14] [c++17] [c++-faq]
Aren't we a little late for the Kotlin hype?
14:25
What's Kotlin?
Kotlin is a statically-typed programming language that runs on the Java Virtual Machine and also can be compiled to JavaScript source code or uses the LLVM compiler infrastructure. Its primary development is from a team of JetBrains programmers based in Saint Petersburg, Russia (the name comes from Kotlin Island, near St. Petersburg). While the syntax is not compatible with Java, Kotlin is designed to interoperate with Java code and is reliant on Java code from the existing Java Class Library, such as the collections framework. Kotlin is similar to Apple's Swift. == History == In July 201...
/sarcasm
What's Kapitalism?
It's when people do stuff for money, like program in Java.
nwp
nwp
@набиячлэвэли It's Actually Capitalism. It's When You Capitalize All The Words.
user1804599
14:34
struct vector_soil : std::vector<slakken::value const*>, slakken::soil what could go wrong
nwp
nwp
@rightfold bjarne claims to never have had a problem with that, so you're probably fine
user1804599
yay
user1804599
i wrote bjarnic code
Ven
Ven
Does it sparkle
@rightfold you don't plan to use it in a polymorphic context rite?
user1804599
user image
17
user1804599
14:36
@Ven No, only through the slakken::soil base.
user1804599
vector_soil soil;
alloc.add_soil(soil);
// ...
soil.push_back(&value2);
Ven
Ven
Cuz std::vector's dtor isn't virtual.
user1804599
Indeed. :P
Hi guys
out of curiosity
I've just read the concept of Trivial Iterator (apparently an old concept)
I was trying to figure out how to implement it
Ven
Ven
We can provide all the need you help. Show us where the bad iterator touched you.
14:44
I'm not sure, but to me it should be just something like
template<typename T>
class TrivialIterator {
 public:
   //overload dereference operator
 private:
   T *obj;
};
would it be something like that?
(I've never overloaded the dereference operator)
what is this KOTLIN meme?
Ven
Ven
@ChemiCalChems I think you misspelled K O T L I N, Our Lord And Savior.
@Ven what is this K O T L I N lord and savior? i must know him
I am KOTLIN.
We are all KOTLIN.
15:05
Uber's practice of persistently raising capital from private investors is akin to a Ponzi scheme, according to veteran investor and Magellan Financial Group chief executive Hamish Douglass.
I thought that's true for most startup anyways, until IPO ... then they just rope $ from general public
what's media's hostility against Uber anyways, sexual harassment happens in too many companies, I was actually once informed by a female colleague in case like that, it's best to remain silent.
now thinking back, her advice is dumb
because predators likes to pick on lambs and other obedient animals
@Telkitty it's taxi companies and their sponsors that are driving most of the hostility I think
yeah
that's probably closer to the truth
always think - who is the one going to benefit from this
> What’s the most generous interpretation of their belief or action?
If I was doing or believed this precise thing, why would I do it or believe it?
What concrete benefits do they get from their belief or action?
What is more important to them than it is to me?
What could they learn from what they are doing or believe?
What’s one thing they probably wish people really knew about them?
Because of what they do or believe, who can they connect to that I would have a hard time with?
In what ways does their belief or action protect or comfort them?
@ratchetfreak Also Uber drivers.
15:17
media is biased, I have see editors in some newspaper who filtered out any different opinions
@R.MartinhoFernandes if Uber driver really disagree all that much they would become ex-Uber drivers
Yes, they really want to be unemployed.
@ratchetfreak Oh, and the authorities.
like if you are over 25 and you have never had a job that annoyed you
like if you like french fries
@R.MartinhoFernandes at least the side that wants to regulate public transport
user1804599
user1804599
15:25
False. It's sorted completely alphabetically.
@ratchetfreak In think in most cases that's already regulated, and they mostly want Uber to comply with it. Though the distinction might not be very meaningfull.
@ratchetfreak Anyway, the point is that there are actually many classes of people who are hostile to Uber.
David Robinson on May 23, 2017

This morning, a popular Stack Overflow question hit a major milestone:

You’re not alone, jclancy. In the five years since this question was asked, there have been over a million other developers who got stuck in Vim and couldn’t escape without a bit of help. Indeed, the difficulty of quitting the Vim editor is a common joke among developers.

I’ve been told by experienced Vim users that this reputation is unfair, and I’m sure they’re right (even I’ve gotten the hang of it in the last few years). I think there are two reasons it’s easy to forget how to exi …

15:42
my java build is currently taking 13 14 15GB of RAM and 93% of the CPU
not sure if I should be happy about that
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz I wouldn't be happy with a Java build either.
turned out it was building the whole GWT
I killed it because I don't need it atm
user1804599
Install Gentoo.
@rightfold I think the description is about the procedure (the intent), not the incidental result
user1804599
>:(
user1804599
Huh, rad. I didn't know it could do this.
user1804599
Unity are dick whistlers.
16:15
@EtiennedeMartel And this is why most of the time "First Name" + "Last Name" are stupid ways to ask people for their names on the Internet.
(Or worse, what they likely have done: guess "first name" and "last name" from the full name)
@rightfold What are you building?
user1804599
A virtual machine.
@EtiennedeMartel I feel a niche performance art hit coming up
@R.MartinhoFernandes clearly the first space character is where you should break it :P
16:30
@rightfold doxygen detected
flashbacks to uni
user1804599
>:(
gods you should have seen my class dependency diagrams ahahaha
wish I were at home; I'd find one for you
think hair pasta
user1804599
That is disgusting.
always wanted to go back and redo that project properly one day. but it would take until heat death of the universe to unravel, I fear
> As of this present moment (in Mar. 2016), phones in the disputed territory and partially recognised state of Kosovo may be reached by dialing the country calling code for Serbia (+381), Slovenia (+386), or Monaco (+377), depending on where and when one obtained the number.
WTF why Monaco.
@R.MartinhoFernandes it’s all a gamble
> I believe that mossad has sabotaged my nitrous in order to silence me from exposing them online
what is the term for a script or function that is safe to call multiple times with the same data/arguments with no adverse side effects?
@JDiMatteo deterministic?
@JDiMatteo though you seem to be mixing concepts. typically you'd associate adverse side effects with calling a non-reentrant function multiple times simultaneously (with any arguments)
@BoundaryImposition thanks reentrant is what I was looking for
@JDiMatteo if calling a function multiple times (in sequence) causes adverse side effects just because you changed the arguments between calls, something is seriously wrong
16:39
pure function
or referentially transparent
Ell
Ell
^these
user1804599
@JDiMatteo idempotent
user1804599
For example, deleting an element from a set is idempotent.
hello
user1804599
hi
Ell
Ell
16:50
@rightfold I don't think that's appropriate
can anyone help me in this question codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/164115/…
hmm spamming links to your question across the network's chatrooms is not very nice
Your question is off-topic there anyway.
@rightfold now now
user1804599
Yes! NOW!
/cc @Morwenn
@rightfold thank you, I had actually googled omnipotent and wondered why that wasn't right :)
17:02
@rightfold Why?
user1804599
For fun.
@Horttanainen Because he's rightfold.
What a silly question.
@rightfold I read some of it, but my brain just wanted to shut down
user1804599
:v
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's exactly what they did. Their profile page has a single field for "Name".
17:04
Media says that the Manchester terrorist went to Syria and Libya. Was he a moderate rebel?
Wow, same-sex marriage is not legal in Germany?
2
@RudiantoPrasetya savages!
@RudiantoPrasetya I guess nobody's perfect.
But they love wurst so much?
4
@RudiantoPrasetya It's complicated.
nwp
nwp
17:06
@RudiantoPrasetya I believe they have same-sex partnership which has the same legal consequences as marriage.
@nwp Not strictly, but yes, there's that at least.
@RudiantoPrasetya Almost entirely.
Actually, more than in some countries with same-sex marriage.
E.g. adoption rights.
And less than in some other countries with same-sex marriage :p
@RudiantoPrasetya Yeah, but like what?
Like it being marriage.
17:10
Right, which is arguably the least concern.
Is it though? It's still a different contract, so technically equality of rights hasn't been achieved.
I never really bought that
@R.MartinhoFernandes convenient
I mean I kind of get it
but pick your battles y'know?
(I'm just being picky, I don't actually care)
17:11
it's like saying females don't have equality because there are still two words "female" and "male"
(But hey this is Lounge so)
equality is not equivalence
indeed, nobody said it was
you sort of suggested that there would have to be equivalence in order for there to be equality
17:12
two sets of rights that are functionally the same but called different things, can be "equal"
equality implies equivalence but the opposite is not true
haha @ flag
wasn't me. was tempted at the time, I'll admit
@rightfold Okay I read all of it and still don't know what is going on. But it sure looks nice
> Even though a majority of the political parties in the Bundestag supports legalising same-sex marriage, attempts to achieve this have been blocked by CDU/CSU, the largest party in the Bundestag and the dominant party in the government coalitions since 2005.
ah well
user1804599
@Horttanainen XD
17:14
when in doubt, blame Bavaria
"Federal Diet" lololol
TIL Bavaria is basically the Yorkshire of Germany
nwp
nwp
@BoundaryImposition Is Yorkshire the texas of GB?
Can't get enough of these comparisons between regions I know nothing about.
nwp
nwp
There seems to be a universal rule that one part of a country or city doesn't quite fit with the rest.
I suppose you can always rank regions by similarity and there will always be one at the bottom for being the odd one.
17:19
@EtiennedeMartel It's the Klondike of uh, Europe
@EtiennedeMartel Quebec is the Scotland of Canada
ironically
man my builds take too long. 28 mins? what is this shit.
precompiled headers doing basically nothing
Québec is the France of Canada
Quebec is the China of Johannesburg
@BoundaryImposition That's why both should split from their respective countries and merge into an awesome mess of alcoholism and self-loathing.
@EtiennedeMartel Canaland? Scotada?
17:22
lol @ topic, just noticed
nwp
nwp
I think if bavaria split off, saxony would become the new weird one.
@BoundaryImposition just did a ctrl-f in the book school gave me. it's not in there :( fuck my life I guess. — user3330623 8 secs ago
lol
what a sad fate
#BritishThreatLevels We're British, you don't scare us until you raise the threat level to: "The only tea we have is Lipton."
confirmed
although .. comma splice ....
@Horttanainen I recently founded a new-metal band with concise syntax colled Slipknotlin.
@fredoverflow :D I like to think that this joke is a result of hours of furious thinking
@BoundaryImposition Ah, that ain't that bad. And how else are you supposed to join independent clauses?
17:59
@Horttanainen Actually, I took a several-hour break from my computer, and when I booted it up again, god spoke to me and commanded me to found said band.
@fredoverflow I wish that god would speak to me too. At least once in a while
@Horttanainen It's really not that spectacular:
 _________________________________________
/ Thou shalt form a new-metal band called \
| Slipknotlin which is totally unrelated  |
\ to any strongly-hyped JVM language      /
 -----------------------------------------
        \   ^__^
         \  (oo)\_______
            (__)\       )\/\
                ||----w |
                ||     ||
"strongly-hyped", heh.
18:10
I found half a bottle of pinot noir in the cupboard. Feels very fallout
@milleniumbug When code looks like this, I don't even want to read it :/
@Morwenn What about this? ioccc.org/1998/banks.c
Haha, I just realized that the guy that just created the Frozen C++ library works in a building next to mine xD
@Horttanainen It's not meant to be read.
@Morwenn I know. It is my favorite code snippet.
You can obfuscate any language by distributing it as JVM bytecode contained in a .txt file.
18:22
Yes. But the true beauty is that this the code for a flight simulator :P
@Horttanainen Can't get it to compile
main.c:6:25: error: ‘dt’ undeclared here (not in a function)
                      ,_=dt,T,Z,D=1,d,
@StackedCrooked here are the build instructions: blog.aerojockey.com/post/iocccsim
@R.MartinhoFernandes I already watched that. It was awesome
@Horttanainen Ok I got it to build. Now I need to find some '.sc' files :P
18:33
@StackedCrooked :D
@StackedCrooked Okay this is the proper place to get your sceneries and source: www0.us.ioccc.org/years.html#1998
Ah. And now it seems I need to access my Linux machine locally. (Since I don't have X forwarding configured.) If I remember I'll try it out next week when I'm back at work.
I'll remind you
Kinda looking forward to it :)
What about setting up x forwarding on your windows?

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