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8:04 PM
@Mgetz Finally some good news.
You asked the exact same thing in the SQL room.
What made you think you'd have better results in a C++ room?
 
Don't really give a shit which ui.. I'm comfortable with either of both.. after having to get used to crappy mac os UI./. Command line is my ui
 
@ProblemSlover Don't use a mac
 
@Mikhail I use multiple desktop environments
 
1 message moved to bin
 
8:22 PM
Stud:"optional<unique_ptr<T>> doesn't compile on my Linux installation " Me: "why would you make a pointer optional?You've got nullptr! "
I believe P.Sommerlad is making a little bit of a fool of himself.
 
@nwp Gotta love Yahoo comments: yahoo.com/finance/video/…
"Get rid of the Ivy League schools because they only accept foreigners and turn everyone into liberals."
 
@sehe I have to agree. This is basically "why would you want a general solution instead of a special case that's been a problem since...forever?"
 
@LucDanton That's beautiful. Scamming like a common psychic
@JerryCoffin Indeed/
 
:waves:
 
@Moshe Bullets
 
8:26 PM
Huh?
/me ducks
 
@JerryCoffin He makes it worse (if that's even possible):
@deanberris The second one would be a different type using **
I. Don't. Even.
 
lol I came in here because this is one my "more active" chats and I'm curious about the helpful flags.
Wrong room, for sure.
 
nwp
Jerry bullied yet another newcomer away. With bullets and experiments on slits. 2 at a time!
 
@sehe This from the guy who claims to have invented "the rule of zero"? I definitely prefer Robot.
6
 
8:29 PM
Don't we all.
@nwp He's not a newcomer
 
@nwp Bullied? I pointed him at a Richard Feynman video. How much nicer could anyone possibly be?
 
haha thanks, at work now - will look later
 
yesterday, by sehe
bullets
 
nwp
apparently I'm still the newcomer
 
hehe, I pop into a few chats once every six months when I need a breather.
 
8:31 PM
@nwp To some. Let's say your average presence has been way higher.
However Moshe has a very steady recurrence pattern. I suspect it's related to curricula :)
 
@sehe How odd--I don't think I even noticed that at the time (but maybe it affected me subliminally).
 
@sehe that's funny. It might gave been at one point.
but I haven't taken a CS class in a while
 
I believe you graduated or something 1.5/2 years ago?
 
Has anyone done a Fourier analysis on his appearances? Are they periodic? :P
 
working full time now and hoping to wrap up my degree online
@sehe I had some trouble with the advanced math classes
 
8:32 PM
@Mysticial I think I by and large did
@Moshe Uhoh. Don't look to me. I might be contagious
 
My GPA took a big hit, and I've done fairly well with iOS apps.
So my plan is to get an undergrad online and maybe do a masters in CS somewhere.
 
Oh fuck GPAs, they almost kept me out of both college and grad school.
8
 
Yeah so apparently if you transfer schools, your GPA is usually reset.
 
Interesting
 
So there's a loophole in the system.
Most colleges don't count transfer credits towards GPA.
We'll see.
So no, @sehe, not related to curricula right now.
I'm looking for specific info on how to raise enough helpful flags to clear Marshal (gold)
 
8:35 PM
:)
 
@Moshe For that you probably want to hit the review queues.
 
@JerryCoffin So I've been poking at those, but I don't know how to get helpful flag credit
 
@JerryCoffin That's not gonna work. It'll drive you insane before you even get 10 helpful flags.
 
There are different badges depending on which queue,.
 
user784668
@Moshe If you want badges, become a review queue whore.
 
8:37 PM
What's the process for a helpful flag these days?
 
user784668
That's what I did, anyway.
 
maybe hitting up "new" or "first time" questions?
 
@Mysticial I can't make sense of this. It seems to be implying that I'm currently sane...
 
user784668
@JerryCoffin Checks out, no mundane human lives that long, so you're clearly some mad wizard.
 
nwp
@JerryCoffin I think he only implied Moshe might be sane.
 
8:39 PM
What if we got rep for closing questions :-)
 
@Mikhail I'd have higher rep than Jon.
 
nwp
I want that actually, you should totally be able to up- and downvote closes.
 
user784668
@Mikhail SO would become a totalitarian shithole and not just be based in one anymore?
 
nwp
but you would be able to downvote the totalitarian people
 
I think SO rep rewards users of broken languages, because those languages have more questions that can't be closed (and need to be answered).
 
8:42 PM
Looking at the SO review queues is like staring at a pile of human stools that someone shit on your car. There may be different flavors of it. Some watery, some hard, some brown green or black. But in the end it's not very pleasant to look at no matter the flavor and how it's decorated. And after about 10 times, you kinda get a little pissed off.
5
 
That's gross
and the review queues are nice
and fluffy
like a unicorn
 
@Moshe For which language?
 
user784668
@Mysticial I dunno about that, I remember that looking through review queues was keeping me somewhat functional during a depression episode a few years back.
 
user784668
Thinking about it now, it might be because there were people more miserable than me in there.
 
@Mikhail Probably. The same tends to be true in general. Go into a bookstore (with a semi-decent technical section) and three quarters of the books will be devoted to the worst crap, for similar reasons. In the '90s when C++ was awful every store had dozens of books about it. Now that it's a lot less terrible, they might have half a dozen, and many have only one or two.
 
8:45 PM
@Mikhail Broken English. I love editing.
 
Problem is that most of the questions need to be closed, but you don't get rep for doing that.
 
@JerryCoffin Not sure I agree. That seems to be an instance of shelf space reflects popularity, languages are popular when they are new and shiny and less so when they're mature.
 
@Puppy That's part of it, but I think a lot of it is a self-fulfilling prophecy too. I think in a fair number of cases, things become popular because people see a lot of shelf space devoted to it, and assume that indicates that it's already popular (when, in fact, it's just crappy and requires a lot of explaining).
 
9:01 PM
TIL, you can use parenthesis to avoid std::max being messed up by the max macro in Windows.h. AKA, (std::max)(A, B)
 
@Mikhail More generally, assures against a function-like macro being used for whatever.
 
user784668
@Mikhail #define NOMINMAX
 
@JerryCoffin What happens if you have both #include <Windows> and #include <algorithm> without that macro?
 
user784668
@Mysticial Chaos and compile errors.
 
It sounds like <algorithm> wouldn't compile since it declares std::min/max.
 
9:12 PM
@Mysticial I always do as @Fanael suggested, and define NOMINMAX before including windows.h, so it just doesn't define them at all.
 
Yeah, but sometimes an OEM software vendor #includes "Windows.h" and you're fucked.
I forget that people in this room have control of their code
 
user784668
@Mikhail So fucking what? You can still define that shit before including their header, right?
 
shiver macros...
 
COM atx needs to be included in a certain order, But the real problem is that I don't want to change their headers.
 
@Mikhail If/when they do that, it's probably best to wrap their code up into a DLL with a narrow interface, and keep your source completely separate (if possible, of course).
 
9:18 PM
@JerryCoffin Yes, that is exactly what I did...
 
9:32 PM
I have windowsh-inc.h to deal with this MINMAX BS.
 
@wilx You can also try #define VC_EXTRALEAN
 
user784668
grrrrrrrrrr
 
user784668
how do i remember the order of arguments to _MM_SHUFFLE
 
@Mikhail IIRC, I took a look at VC_EXTRALEAN when I was writing that header. But I do not remember why I have not used it.
@Mikhail Ah, it is apparently something for MFC apps.
 
user784668
@Mikhail I wouldn't be surprised if that list of crap is not a superset of VC_EXTRALEAN and WIN32_LEAN_AND_MEAN and whatever
 
9:38 PM
here is one of mine
Got useful stuff like #define NOKANJI
 
Also, it is a good idea to include winsock2.h instead of windows.h because the former includes the latter and declares stuff for Winsock 2 instead of Winsock 1.
 
Would it be a practical to try and push an #undef into <algorithm> to fix the issue?
 
user784668
@Aaron3468 Why? You're not supposed to #define max in the first place.
 
user784668
@Aaron3468 It's UB according to 20.5.4.3.2.
 
@Fanael Don't think that max can be legally defined as a macro by the library implementation so it should be safe enough for everybody to #undef it before or after including <algorithm>
 
10:48 PM
Another thing I hate is Samba, I'm copying files and it shows 100% CPU usage. Or it might be due to ZFS. Anyways, my write speeds dropped to 30 MB/s compared to HW RAID which goes over 300 MB/s.
The real bullshit part is that I have 64 cores, but only one of them is active, and that bastard is pegged at 100%. Some dude was like, "its IO and using multiple threads won't help". The real mistake is that IO is almost never IO.
 
@Mikhail I just need to rub it in:
yesterday, by Mysticial
Mar 28 at 6:51, by Mikhail
user image
 
I even answered a question on SO about how using multiple threads can improve "IO" performance a few months ago and got one downvote (which haunts me to this day).
 
@Mikhail I'd downvote you too (for leaving out the / in what should have been "I/O").
;)
 
Looks like Samba uses a single thread per client, while Windows servers can expand the number of threads. My operating hypothesis is that the paradigm of launching dozens of threads during robocopy fucks with Samba. Because, while in Windows the robocopy checksum is multi-threaded, on the Linux end its going single threaded.
 The short version is that smbd is not multithreaded, and alternative servers that take this approach under Unix (such as Syntax, at the time of writing) suffer tremendous performance penalties and are less robust. nmbd is not threaded either, but this is because it is not possible to do it while keeping code consistent and portable across 35 or more platforms. (This drawback also applies to threading smbd.)
Except that Windows, uses the multi threaded approach, and "wrecks your shit".
This kind of unsubstantiated bullshit among the reasons, why we can't have multi-threading in Python.
 
11:24 PM
@Mikhail Therefore SMB/CIFS and its ilk are (obviously) evil, and Microsoft is (obviously also being evil by) withholding crucial information necessary to write high performance servers.
 
Or it could be that Microsoft has more money to throw at the problem?
 
@Mysticial Hmm...maybe I should have included a '\U0001f643' to indicate that I was being just a tad sarcastic...
 
Conspiracy theory is that its due to the "IO operations are disk speed limited" meme. Many IO operations can have non-trivial compute overhead (and even benefit from AVX!)
 
@Mikhail I'd certainly expect software implementations of any of the RAID levels using XORs between disks to benefit (probably a lot) from vectorization.
 
@JerryCoffin Probably not much for simple parity raids. But at the very least, I'd expect every quality implementation to be using NT-stores.
 
11:39 PM
Gee. Why all the big words. "Cheating". "Cheating big!". "Not real world!". I don't think they use shared_ptr "for brevity" - that's your words only. I use shared_ptr in my own application. And yes, I keep a collection of weak_ptr to keep track of them too. What is the problem with that? Are my servers "not real world"? — sehe 36 mins ago
I'm curious what you guys would say about the code style in my answer there.
It's redacted, but it's from our code base. I hope it shows a good influence from a certain person...
 
@Mysticial Oh, vectorization may not affect the disk throughput a lot--I was thinking more of similar throughput, but with lower CPU loading.
 
@JerryCoffin ah
 
Also, wouldn't all copy/move style operations benefit from being done in kernel space? Disk controller interrupts you with data, and you immediately forward it the next device. Right now, in the case of an A->B copy, the data is deep copied back into some user space queue?
 
I have to check to see if the latest RAID0 in my pi program uses NT-stores. It's been half a year since I wrote it, and I remember skipping over a bunch of optimizations since I was still prototyping the "far memory" approach to the NUMA/distributed problem.
 
@sehe I agree with the OP that using smart pointers is cheating (but in areas like this, I encourage cheating whenever reasonable).
 
11:48 PM
You're entirely too reasonable, Jerry.
 
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