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5:00 PM
@BartekBanachewicz If you use tmux, why wouldn't you?
I think it's really cool that by the end of the game, you can even be assured that your opponent's hands are valid without having to see them (an important feature for poker).
I had an idea for such a protocol today, and then some googling found this.
 
How does one say 'ze' ?
> Oxford University students are being urged to use gender-neutral pronouns such as ‘ze’ rather than ‘he’ or ‘she’ in an attempt to reduce the risk of offending transgender people
Don't we have they for that?
 
"They" is not "I'm so PC that it hurts" enough.
 
They is already used in a lot of english-speaking cultures around the world and doesn't need a new definition.
The transition would be easier for almost everyone.
And it also makes sense.
 
But it doesn't scream "I'm politically correct"!
 
5:14 PM
And "ze" is indistinguishable from "the" for French people.
I vote for "zey".
@Griwes The French are already doing it anyway.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes so you're saying it's supposed to be indistinguishable from "they" for the French? :D
 
Super progressive people, the French.
 
Ell
Let's just call them "it".
 
@thecoshman What language would you like http to be in?
Looks like a nice project I could get started on
Of course if you want to do it alone I respect that
 
5:30 PM
@ThePhD Technically, "they" is plural. If you need a singular, you should use "he" or "she". Traditionally, "he" could be either gender-specific or gender-neutral. Personally, if somebody refers to me as "ze", I find it highly offensive--but since I'm not transgender, my feelings (obviously) don't matter.
 
Technically, "they" is also singular.
 
You're a man you don't have feelings
 
It has been also singular since essentially ever.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes source?
 
@Borgleader
You post a picture to VB code, without any explanation, and then tag it C++. What do you want, exactly!? — StoryTeller yesterday
 
5:33 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes At one time, use of "they" as a singular was frowned upon as substandard--but people did it enough that I doubt anybody notices or cares any more (and it wouldn't surprise me if the notion that it should be used for singular was largely an invention of people searching for excuses to look down on others).
 
@JerryCoffin At what time?
 
Singular they is the use in English of the pronoun they, or its inflected or derivative forms, such as them, their, themself, or themselves, as a gender-neutral pronoun to refer to a single person or an antecedent that is grammatically singular. It typically occurs with an antecedent of indeterminate gender, as in sentences such as: "Somebody left their umbrella in the office. Would they please collect it?" "The patient should be told at the outset how much they will be required to pay." "But a journalist should not be forced to reveal their sources." The singular they had emerged by the 14th century...
 
@JerryCoffin what people?
 
@Abyx You can find its use as singular in writings all the way back to Chaucer's English (whatever that one is called these days).
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yep until it was abandoned some 100-200 years ago
 
user1804599
5:36 PM
@wilx :/
 
@Abyx "abandoned"
Wikipedia documents the usage pretty well.
> An 1895 grammar (Baskervill, W.M. and Sewell, J.W.: An English Grammar for the Use of High School, Academy and College Class) notes the common use of the singular they
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Certainly when I was in school, our books pretty clearly stated that "they" should only be used as a plural. Use of it as singular might be permissible in conversation, but certainly not in formal writing.
 
That's 100 years ago. "common", "abandoned", same thing.
 
@JerryCoffin in what case would you use it in a conversation?
 
@Abyx There's an example on your screen, I bet.
"Somebody left their umbrella in the office"
 
5:40 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes why "their" and not "his"?
 
@Abyx Both are fine. English works like that.
This usage of "they" can be found in use all the way back to Chaucer; it's nothing new.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes The existence of a Wikipedia article on the subject points to the fact that it's open to some controversy. I doubt anybody's written an article about "plural them" for example, simply because there's not really anything to say.
 
@JerryCoffin That page is pretty well sourced.
You just have to see people using singular "they" for 600 years.
@JerryCoffin Or it simply points to the fact that it's a peculiar aspect of English grammar.
> The singular they had emerged by the 14th century and is common in everyday spoken English, but its use has been the target of criticism since the late 19th century.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I suppose that's possible--but given the number of peculiarities in English grammar, one more hardly seems worthy of note.
 
FWIW:
They is the third-person plural personal pronoun (subjective case) in Modern English. It can also be used with singular meaning, particularly in informal contexts, sometimes to avoid specifying the gender of the person referred to. == Special uses == === Singular === The singular they is the use of this pronoun as a gender-neutral singular rather than as a plural pronoun. This is commonly considered to be incorrect given the fact that the singular they is mostly a colloquialism and has no basis in actual grammar rules of English. The correctness of this usage is disputed. The Oxford Dictionaries...
Anyway, I look forward for the reinstatement of "thou" and the displacement of that horrendous crime against the English language, the singular "you".
 
5:49 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes You'd like that, would you? :-)
 
OMG, The Little Prince in Spanglish!
Fuck my wallet.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes At least according to my wife, wallets are supposed to be empty. At least mine is supposed to, anyway.
 
@Mysticial He came to the wrong neighborhook.
 
@Borgleader I don't even know how the OP can make that typo. "d" and "k" are nowhere near each other on the keyboard.
I guess they're both pressed by the middle finger. So if there was a bit-flip in the instruction on the bit that specifies which hand... I guess.
 
6:16 PM
@rightfold lol, bashing Java
> The introduction of the functional programming paradigm into Java 8 is in many cases like giving a Ferrari to someone who’s only just gotten their training wheels off (more cheesy analogies to follow).
 
Ven
6:51 PM
Most Developers Suck, But My Personal Research Indicates I Don't
 
Where you try your hand at branchless stuff and everything becomes slow as fuck.
 
7:06 PM
I need a Mysticial .____.
 
user1804599
Adding | cat to git log removes colors. What do I have to pass to cat to preserve the colors?
 
Ven
@Morwenn wut is happenun?
 
@Ven My branchless code is 1.5 times slower than my branchful one, even though optimizations are enable and I don't understand why.
 
@rightfold That's git log's "fault" actually
 
I guess I'll ask on SO, people love them performance questions.
 
Ven
7:16 PM
yay
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow Bash all languages that make pure total typed parametric functional programming too difficult.
 
user1804599
@набиячлэвэли It's a feature. I don't want to change the git command, but only the command it is piped into.
 
impossible
git log just doesn't emit colours AFAICT
2
 
Ven
@fredoverflow the article is really bad for tons of reasons
it's basically a very long strawman
 
@rightfold What has happened to you, have you become a member of the Alonzo Church or something?
 
user1804599
7:18 PM
@fredoverflow LOL
 
user1804599
@набиячлэвэли it does, unless it detects a certain thing. What is this thing?
 
@wilx Apropos he&she: is "shell" the female version of "hell"?
 
user1804599
Does it use isatty?
 
user1804599
If so, will | cat > /dev/tty work?
 
@rightfold stdout being or not being [a pipe]|[a terminal]|[sth else]
 
7:43 PM
@rightfold Is cat pure, total and parametric though?
 
Ven
it's actually pure and total, yes :P
 
@набиячлэвэли lol, don't really care that much to be honest. I was thinking of doing a cheaty start that can basically wrap that python webserver thing. Have it detect what version of python (or install python2 if needs be), makes sure the module is available, look for the lowest free port after 8000 and then start that python server with that port :P
 
@Ven Are you claiming file IO is pure?
 
Ven
@Griwes I'm saying cat is the identity function
 
@Ven What?
Explain
 
7:49 PM
@Ven It does file IO!
 
Ven
@набиячлэвэли echo 'a' | cat.
 
That does IO on two different files.
 
echo a | cat asdf - fdsa
next
 
Well. I on one and O on another, but that is considered to be IO on both, hence it does IO on two files.
 
@thecoshman Well, I'd get started with a Rust PoC, then, if you mind naught
 
Ven
7:50 PM
@Griwes it's just a String -> String. ; D
 
@набиячлэвэли lol, go for it XD
 
@Griwes At least two files
 
How's IO pure without files being uniquely typed (which they aren't)?
@Ven Erm, no.
 
maybe to start with push it to a 'Rust' branch
 
Ven
7:51 PM
sigh
 
closer to [String] -> String
 
It's actually [String] -> Int.
And has a hidden input and a hidden output.
 
@Griwes good point yes
 
That's not pure at all.
 
Excellent point, Watson Griwes!
 
7:52 PM
I can agree with the totality claim, but it's most definitely not pure :P
 
oh yeah! someone answered my question, and now thanks to the wonders of iferror() my formulas are going to be so much easier to deal with
 
Ven
It's just monads. You wouldn't understand.
 
@Ven hell, [String] -> Int is even explicitly explained in the type of main! :D
int main(int argc, char ** argv)
look, that's [String] -> Int!
 
Ven
actually fun question
what would that be
(CrashingStream String, Int) -> Int
 
7:53 PM
@Griwes funniest thing is argc is actually useless there
argv is sufficient in&of itself
 
...no it isn't?
 
Or is there a (C standard) guarantee that it's NULL-terminated?
 
I know envp is NULL-terminated, but argv?
 
7:54 PM
The International Standard says so yes
I remember reading that
 
> Further, the array element at argv[argc] is a null pointer, so the array itself is also, in a sense, "null terminated."
 
it's {{'a', '1'}, {'a', '2'}, nullptr}
I have used that before for manual argument parsing, much more elegant
 
Some guy named James McNeillis put that in an answer, should I trust him on this CRT matter?
 
Ven
@набиячлэвэли u sure
lemme see
 
Searching the standard
as the type of main (8.3.5). In the latter form, for purposes of exposition, the first function parameter is
called argc and the second function parameter is called argv, where argc shall be the number of arguments
passed to the program from the environment in which the program is run. If argc is nonzero these arguments
shall be supplied in argv[0] through argv[argc-1] as pointers to the initial characters of null-terminated
multibyte strings (ntmbs s) (17.5.2.1.4.2) and argv[0] shall be the pointer to the initial character of a
 
Ven
7:57 PM
5.1.2.2.1 Program startup
...
-- argv[argc] shall be a null pointer.
nice ty :D
 
> The value of argv[argc] shall be 0.
3.6.1.2.2.
 
> 5.1.2.2.1
 
@Ell hahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahaha laughing maniacally
 
> 3.6.1.2.2
 
Ven
@Griwes C standard ;)
 
7:58 PM
> 17.5.2.1.4.2
insanity
 
That's from n4140 btw
 
USE MNEMONICS GODDAMMIT
ESPECIALLY FOR DEEPLY NESTED THINGS LIKE THAT
 
yes sure whatever basic.start.main.2.2
 
Ven
rofl
 
7:59 PM
terrible
 
Hope I won't realize that I'm merely stupid and the answer is trivial.
 
Also no, argc is actually kinda useful... when you want to fail for incorrect number of arguments. xD
GOTTA FAIL FAST
 
@thecoshman You're referring to that as if I should be pushing to your repo but you seem to not have given me push access there. Is that an oversight or should I make a fork?
@Griwes That's almost always a terrible metric
 
user1804599
@Ven ok
 
useful only for trivial example programs
 
8:00 PM
@набиячлэвэли :P
Shush. :P
 
Ven
@Griwes just strlen :)).
 
Fails in most real-world scenarios
 
@набиячлэвэли oh... lol... erm... I guess I could give you push access... I wasn't really thinking about it. That readme was very honest, I have very little intention of actually doing any more with that project, other than maybe a wrapper around a python module :P
 
Ven
strlen((char*)argv);
 
Ven
8:01 PM
motion to rename strlen to whereisnull.
 
more like whereisnul
 
Ven
IS THIS WINDOWS
 
NUL is an ANSI character
 
@набиячлэвэли On the array? Ewww. :P
 
NULL is a pointer value 0
 
Ven
8:02 PM
you're the ANSI character
 
No, NULL is a null pointer.
 
@Griwes I was referring to argc's useful(less) ness
 
0 is also a null pointer (in C++).
But the actual bit pattern of a null pointer can be different from 0.
In particular, it could be 0xffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff (yes this was intended to be 128 bits).
 
user1804599
pg_isready | Out-Null
If (!$?) {
    Write-Error 'PostgreSQL is not ready. Bailing out.'
    Exit 1
}
 
user1804599
woo
 
8:10 PM
Is it possible that the implicit cast of a one-byte bool to an int for use as the index value is generating the extra code? — Mikel F 52 secs ago
this'd be... absurd
 
should be probably is not, IANALALT
 
FML. Ubuntu has just updated FireFox and it now does not load any pages.
@Griwes Well, it has to zero extend the value, potentially.
Ah, it loaded after all.
 
8:31 PM
@Morwenn my initial intuition was the same as what was mentioned in this comment is the answer, but I don't think I can reasonably answer the question ;p
 
@Morwenn The branch is completely random right?
 
@Mysticial Mostly. I don't think it takes one branch more often than the other.
 
@Morwenn I have no way to prove it, but I suspect you're hitting the "LSU's version of branch prediction".
The LSU (load-store unit) tries to disambiguate between load and stores so it can reorder them.
 
Never heard of that.
 
Without the disambiguation, every store followed by a load will stall until the store is done. That's because the load could depend on the store.
 
8:36 PM
Um.
 
For every store that's shortly followed by a load, the LSU tries to predict whether or not they have a dependency. If it thinks it does, it will stall the load until the store is done. If it thinks it doesn't, it does it early. If it's does that and it's wrong, then it rolls back the same way of a branch misprediction.
 
Hello
 
Basically, my code would be performing several spurious rollbacks?
 
In this case, std::iter_swap(result, store[cmp]); is reading and writing to store[cmp] which randomly affects loads from the next loop iteration.
So the processor either is issuing a lot of rollbacks, or it's not even trying to reorder since it's wrong too many times.
 
Eh, too bad :/
@Mysticial I'm still impressed by how you manage to diagnose these kinds of things :)
 
8:40 PM
It's okay to follow a store with a load to the same address. The processor optimizes for that since it's very common. But when the load randomly depends on the store, then it trips things up.
@Morwenn I'm only guessing. I really have no idea. I'm just matching the case with a concept I know but without a way to test it.
 
No, I understand that much, I mean that I'm impressed by the number of such concepts you remember and your ability to make them match with strange situations :p
 
Educated guesses still require you knowing your stuff though
 
So, the new PS4 Pro is about 410 EUR. Do I buy it? I cannot decide. I want it but I do not want shell out 11k CZK for it. :( I am such a cheapskate. It would be my first gaming console.
 
@thecoshman Any progress on adding me or should I actually fork?
 
@wilx Just get a gaming PC?
For that price you can probably get a GTX 1070.
 
8:48 PM
@EtiennedeMartel That would be a lot more. Also, I would have nowhere to place it.
 
ugh
apparently (= 5) is not a function in Clojure
stupid lisp /cc @Florian
 
@Mysticial Anyway, thanks for the hintsights :)
 
@Morwenn On another note, an out-of-place merge wouldn't have this problem. Since all the writes are to different addresses from the reads.
 
Yup, but I couldn't always guarantee that the input iterators have the same type in an out-of-place merge.
I could try to apply the trick again when they do have the same type.
 
> clojure.lang.PersistentList$EmptyList cannot be cast to java.lang.Number
what a goddamn clusterfuck
 
Ell
9:01 PM
Wat
Why would a list be castable to a number?
 
@Ell I'm just trying to sort it
and I think it's empty
also UGHGH mixing imperative code with functional without monads but with lazy eval
so primitively bad
 
user1804599
@Ell [()] is isomorphic to ℕ :)
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz It evaluates to true because all arguments are equal. To make it a function, use (partial = 5) or #(= 5 %).
 
yeah
wait what
ah partial
ok nvm
ok it ran, but did WA on the 3rd test
I guess that's progress
 
@набиячлэвэли oh :S didn't realise you wanted me to add... one sec
 
9:16 PM
Well, I expected you of all people would get it
 
there we go :D
 
but you're probably too drunk
 
actually sober
I went for about 10 weeks not drinking at all
 
I'll take things that didn't happen for $500, Alex
 
@Morwenn Apparently, there's a formal term for it:
Memory dependence prediction is a technique, employed by high-performance out-of-order execution microprocessors that execute memory access operations (loads and stores) out of program order, to predict true dependencies between loads and stores at instruction execution time. With the predicted dependence information, the processor can then decide to speculatively execute certain loads and stores out of order, while preventing other loads and stores from executing out-of-order (keeping them in-order). Later in the pipeline, memory disambiguation techniques are used to determine if the loads and...
 
9:19 PM
TIL
 
But yeah, while you managed to cheat the branch predictor, the memory dependence predictor caught you with your pants down - assuming the theory is correct.
 
In this case, I've just traded a misprediction for another misprediction. Yay.
 
Yeah
The usual case where I see this pop up is in histogram loops where there's a small number of buckets:
for (...){
    bucket[result]++;
}
 
Last time I tried to optimize a merge function, I had funky aliasing problems and managed to avoid them with __builtin_assume. Now it's prediction problems. Bottom line: trivial merge functions are hard to optimize.
 
1. If each iteration touches different buckets all the time, then it will be very fast since the increments can be done out of order and in parallel.
2. If the iterations touch the same bucket all the time, the processor will "remember" the dependency and not reorder anything. So it'll be slower.
3. If the iterations randomly touch the same buckets. This is the worst case since the processor doesn't know whether or not to attempt to reorder. So all the mispredictions and roll backs will rack up the largest penalty.
 
9:29 PM
@набиячлэвэли lol, your first contribution is fixing formatting and typos :P how very lounge
 
I needed that to be able to check off goals
and read them clearly
 
I might at some point actually make a load of 'issues' for the things I would like it to do...
 
Feel free to drop your load, m8
2
Starb8 working
 
9:52 PM
So, apparently governor of Ohio is banning (or attempting to) abortions after 20th week after vetoing 6 weeks limit. I just checked, here in Czechia, the limit is 12 weeks for whatever reason and 24 weeks on medical grounds when suggested/approved by MD. I.e., we have even stricter abortion laws here. But in the USA, some of the pro-choice people there are mad that there is 20 weeks limit.
Dunno if the extra 4 weeks here make any difference but it seems to me the Ohio pro-choice advocates have very little to complain about.
 
@thecoshman Can you turn on Travis for http (here)? Oh, and turn on "Build only if .travis.yml is present", if you could be so kind
 
Why http
 
@sehe what do you mean?
@набиячлэвэли done :D
 
> Travis for http
Sounds like it should be https. And probably already is
 
lol
you poor confused fluffy thing :P
@набиячлэвэли currently being nerdy with spread sheets :P
 
10:07 PM
That library name.
 
http?
 
@thecoshman Naming your library http was genius. :)
5
 
it's meant to be a tool really... but whatever , I was after the name :D
 
@rightfold
I need help with the IO
I think that's the bottleneck
    (let [edge-count (read)
          edges (atom
                    (to-array
                        (repeat edge-count [])
                    )
                )]

        (dotimes [n (- edge-count 1)]
            (let [edge-a (- (read) 1)
                  edge-b (- (read) 1)]
                (aset @edges edge-a
                    (conj (aget @edges edge-a) edge-b)
                )
                (aset @edges edge-b
                    (conj (aget @edges edge-b) edge-a)
                )
that's basically the whole reading code
 
@thecoshman you were meant to be a tool too
 
10:16 PM
The "Hopefully you'll be fired." dude on Coding Confessionals is commenting pretty much on all the confessions. That is some dedication there. :)
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz try buffering
 
how
I'm just using read
 
user1804599
read entire stdin at once
 
is the aset/conj thing fast enough?
 
user1804599
No idea.
 
10:18 PM
ugh
 
user1804599
I don't know much about Clojure.
 
k I'll try reading it at once
 
@thecoshman so many appropriate names for tools...
 
user1804599
Trapping in PowerShell is so much more pleasant than in Bash.
 
user1804599
Try {
    $body.Invoke()
} Finally {
    dropdb -U "$databaseUser" "dinote-test-$session"
    if (!$?) {
        Throw 'Cannot drop database.'
    }
}
 
user1804599
10:28 PM
 
I'm offended that keming doesn't offend you enough not to post that
 
user1804599
XD
 
@rightfold BufferedReader didn't help
 
user1804599
Use a profiler to find the slowest part of the program.
 
I tried that already
hprof is shit
 
10:37 PM
The Coding Confessions site is broken. I am the second anonymous #10 but not the first:
 
fuck OOP
 
Ven
fuck oop.
 
it was always a dumb paradigm based on silly assumptions about the world we live in
 
user1804599
hoomans
 
user1804599
category theory and abstract algebra is best basis
 
Ven
10:40 PM
because that doesn't come from hoomans. :P
 
@wilx your assumptions about anonymous commenting might be awry too
 
This is awesome. I should find and watch the "Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency".
 
user1804599
@Ven it comes from God
 
user1804599
10:41 PM
I'm gonna watch this series.
 
@sehe Man, I do not understand your English. :)
 
@rightfold YT doesn't have 3x speed
 
user1804599
?
 
@sehe Smooth.
 
@Ven yes and no
category theory is a direct description of how humans understand things
it's quite literally a depiction of our brains
 
user1804599
10:46 PM
Is a collection of objects and a collection of morphisms between objects with identity and composition.
 
user1804599
It's just a tool.
 
current XCKD is just so great
I cannot get over the Emperor saying "IT ME"
 
Ven
@Puppy I didn't even see Feeds post it :o
 
it went up yesterday
that's why I said current and not today's
 
Ven
huh.
well it's 23:56.
 
user1804599
10:57 PM
hey get out of my timezone *shakes fist*
5
 
11:10 PM
@wilx The 4 weeks?
 
@Puppy 20 weeks in Ohio and 24 weeks on medical grounds here. A difference of 4 weeks.
 
yep, that's what I said
seems obvious to me that if you want choice and you have choice up to 20 weeks, that you might be less than thrilled about the 20-week cutoff
 
@Ven lemme guess, u r a Cinderella, when clock hits midnight, you will transform into a cane toad?
 
Ven
no I'm waiting for a korean starcraft tourney ~2am
 
@Puppy Sure, but the point I am making is that they have a choice up to 20 weeks without any medical grounds necessary, it seems. It seems a lot more choicier than here, yet nobody seems to have a single issue with our limits here from those who are pro-choice at all.
 
Ven
wat
 
Well, the academic publication system is flawed, and I'm certain global warming research suffers from these flaws. That being said, nobody is debating the general trends, just the degree...
 
Ven
NO CLEARLY PEER REVIEW IS STOOPID
 
Breitbart's editorial position is that climate change is a hoax, by the way.
 
Actually who the fuck knows, so much previous science was found to be bullshit including the global cooling epidemic predicted in the 1970s
 
11:20 PM
@EtiennedeMartel We could have guessed that much.
 
On the other hand, I'm pretty convinced by the fact that serious climate change skeptics did their own analysis with as much data as possible and new algorithms, and just confirmed that the climate was indeed warmer and warmer.
 
I'm sorry, I can't help myself
 
Shit man, the headline is a reference to a line in a Nazi play.
 
@Mikhail random news as long as it sells
 
11:23 PM
They're not even fucking trying anymore.
 
Ven
I'm not sure your home itself will get killed.
Also that not how you ping @Mysticial. :P
 
@набиячлэвэли v good start :P
 
@rightfold ICBA to watch his vids anymore. The slowness annoys me
> Also be sure to point out – as I do in my book Watermelons – that neither Watson and Crick nor Einstein were peer-reviewed
Lol. He's been peer reviewed for longer than he's been alive now I suppose
@Mikhail flawed in execution, okay. But "peer review is bad" is redonkulous
 

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