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14:12
Apparently javascript room thinks it's offensive to say girls love gentlemen. Or maybe the typo was offensive
Well... it could be a bit 'touchy' to presume that because they are a girl they most love a man...
but that's getting very picky imo
All these positions.
Machine Learning, statistics... fuck.
My statistics is so weak.
Shit shit shit.
Let's hope the interviewers are more concerned with my C++ than my Stats knowledge.
14:34
There seems to be a bug with 6.1.0 when compiling with -ffunction-sections and any optimization level other than -O0, where strings passed to a function will be stored in flash instead of RAM even though PSTR() hasn’t been used.
	puts("test"); // "test" is incorrectly stored in flash, puts() will attempt to read from RAM!
A work around is to the store the string in a variable then pass that to the function:
	static const char myString[] = "test";
	puts(myString);
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's kinda scary though
@sbi Is that sarcastic? :/
Ven
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz 'tf?
I was just saying that the art department is covered. She likes art a lot, and I want to visit a Hard Rock Cafè once in my life. So those are the two obvious choices.
sbi
sbi
@Shoe No, not at all! You're here for three days and already have plans for two things to visit.
@Shoe I see. (Where are you from that there's no HR Cafés?)
@sbi But I mean, those two can probably fill just one day out of three.
@sbi Verona
I think there's one in Milan and one in Rome?
None of those cities really attract me that much :/
Maybe even Venice
Oh yeah, Florice, Venice and Rome.
Moreover they are all different AFAIK, so it should be a unique experience
sbi
sbi
14:41
@Shoe OK.
What else are you interested in? Museum of technology or of natural history or of computer games? Zoo? (there's two!) Hanging out in street cafés and bars? Listening to Jazz?
I'm not that much of a fan of Museums in general. And even though a museum of technology sounds cool, I highly doubt she'll be interested. Out hotel is very close to a zoo, so I guess that's a good idea.
Hanging in street cafes and bars and listening to jazz sounds also interesting.
sbi
sbi
@Shoe That's t he more dense one then. There's also the Tierpark (not to be confused with Tiergarten), which is more spread out like a park.
If you want to hang out in cafés and bars, you want to go to Friedrichshain (just start north of S Ostkreuz) and walk the streets from bar to bar.
@sbi We are at the Wyndham Berlin Excelsior (which should be on the west side of the city)
sbi
sbi
14:45
@Shoe I don't know the name (I rarely stayed in hotels in Berlin), but that sounds like Zoo.
user1804599
@Ven Fun-fact: purescript-unsafe-coerce is a package that offers exactly one function which is a no-op.
@sbi It's close to this park
@Ven ~~embedded~~
@Ven AVR
@milleniumbug well, frankly this is very much embedded code :P
you can pretend that it doesn't exist, but it does
altough I am seriously considering using more virtuals
not sure about references yet
@sbi Thank you
Can I ask you something about the metro?
14:48
> The lifetime extension is not transitive through a function argument.
Ven
Ven
@rightfold obviously. also you told me already
Actually nevermind, I can probably take a look at the metro website for costs.
sbi
sbi
@Shoe As I said, Zoo. That's close and relatively dense, so easy to access. They have a nice show of apes, and a night animal house. Also, there's a huge Aquarium next to it, you could spend a day in.
@sbi That sounds like a plan as well
Xeo
Xeo
14:49
@BartekBanachewicz auto&& ded = f(int{}); with auto&& f(auto&& arg){ return std::move(arg); }?
sbi
sbi
There's a lot of clubs and live music and three operas. As a German I would buy a Zitty or Tip magazine and look for a concert (or dance event or whatever) in there. I'm not sure how accessible this would be to a non-German speaker, though. I think there's also English magazines for this, but I never bought them and wouldn't know them or their usability.
Ven
Ven
@Xeo die die you monster
@Xeo you might move a reference
Xeo
Xeo
@Ven I was just asking for context
@Xeo I have a different question; would class A { B b; A(B&& b): b(move(b)) { } }; be ok?
Xeo
Xeo
It's written like that for brevity
@BartekBanachewicz yes
14:50
maybe I should do that then
Ven
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz there's no type deduction so yes. except for the "b" name clashing.
sbi
sbi
@Shoe U, Bus, Tram, Ferries: bvg.de, S-Bahn: s-bahn-berlin.de (the former will also find you S-Bahn connections; the latter might, too, but I never used it)
@Ven there's no clashing
@Ven It's fine
there's no way to prevent one template to be instantiated more than once right
14:51
@Ven names don't clash here
sbi
sbi
@milleniumbug raises brows
@milleniumbug You missed.
because there's no way to prevent double moves etc.
so I can't make a "static singleton" because I need rust for that
@sbi sorry, misping
@sbi Good lord, you are better than a turist guide. Thank you very much :D
Ven
Ven
14:52
ok. still very ugly I guess
I owe you one
@BartekBanachewicz wot
8 minutes until I receive the call.... here we go.
Ven
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz why take by B&& and not just B then? unless you want to overload your ctor?
@ThePhD <3
Xeo
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz what's your actual problem right now?
14:52
@Xeo it's still the same problem actually.
sbi
sbi
@Shoe If you want some history, there's a wall museum or something like it... goes digging ...this (I think @Tony found it interesting back when he was in Berlin)
as in, I'm making a lot of simultaneous decisions
Xeo
Xeo
the one from yesterday?
Xeo
Xeo
oh gawd
maybe because you're seeing parts of the picture it seems dumb
Xeo
Xeo
but to my luck, I again don't have time for the whole context :D
Well, here it is anyway.
I'm trying to get those things to match together somehow
but I can't C++ evidently
every solution I try seems to have unacceptable drawbacks
raw pointers, references, rvalue-refs...
virtual vs templates, type vs nontype templates
I guess the biggest bummer I'm hitting is that to get polymorphism I need either templates or virtuals
@sbi I know it's awful to say this, but history is not exactly our greatest interest unfortunately. But thanks nonetheless for the input.
@sbi ohhh I remember our trip through this museum
14:56
If anything else comes up, even randomly don't esitate to ping me. :)
if I could get value semantics and polymorphism...
sbi
sbi
@Shoe There's an app for tracking the Berlin Wall: berlin.de/mauer/en/service/smartphone-app.
@TonyTheLion I bet your feet still hurt when you only think of it! :)
@sbi hehe
templates would almost work but not having concepts is annoying and SFINAE requires too much effort
it's just... I feel I'm not getting the tools I need from this language
Ven
Ven
byte b
14:59
I'd really like to use templates for things that correspond to my hardware though
but maybe that's where I'm wrong
maybe I'm trying to rigidize things that I shouldn't
it's a hell of a bikeshed opportunity here
So, 60(!) MPs have signed by their own hand a bill to add incarceration for up to 1 year for besmirching of the Czech president. Fuck our collective lives here.
I do not think it will pass. But the thought of it!
sbi
sbi
BTW, @Shoe, there's a free Berlin Offline Map app in the Android store (also for many other cities), that has overlays for transportation, bars and restaurants, arts and culture, etc.
but even if I decide to use virtuals everywhere and assume that the configuration is entirely in the runtime state (which hardly matters anyway as the whole program needs to fit in ram), I need a way to get polymorphism and we get back to polymorphic containers
I guess maybe I should just bite the pimpl bullet
maybe tagged-union based polymorphism?
that's what ell suggested
@ratchetfreak but that means the set of implementations need to be known upfront right?
15:06
at least the max size needed for all the state
15:18
Phone conversation over.
They were just a recruiter and it wasn't an interview, but strangely enough they asked me what I expected for compensation.... ??
I did not have any idea, so I said I would have a better idea after they interviewed me for the 2 FinTech Boutiques they're sending me at.
@Mysticial Help me I'm being poached and I don't know if I'm being eaten by the sharks.
Ven
Ven
Why fear the sharks when you should fear the catfaec :3?
qq
I don't know how to do Salary Negotiations at this point. I'm not even at the interview stage yet (though I think I'll get a phone interview).
just to make sure i understand it
Ven
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz lol bartek
Ven
Ven
you need to click on "share", dude.
you just linked to coliru.
@Ven was it really worth starring
Ven
Ven
why not?
yes it's pimpl
so the thing there
void on() { impl->on(); }
void off() { impl->off(); }
no way to automagically generate that?
Ven
Ven
not without operator.()
15:24
I can't iterate over members in a template right
Unfortunately, no.
I'd be all over that in sol2 if you could.
Ven
Ven
I'm not proud, but it works. :c
why the fuck am I using decltype(auto) fn() -> ... O.o
also wow
I just found a hack for the Arduino include fuckup
symlinks
// main.ino
#include "/absolute/path/to/your/project/incl.h"

// incl.h
#include "../lib/mylib.h"
@sehe better ;)
you put the whole code in incl.h
then you can normally include and do everything like a sane human being
and the main is just that absolute path include to the file next to it
15:30
Just create a single file defining all the header guards. Speeds up compilation a lot
mm?
you mean one-TU build?
oh also of course this solution won't make e.g. "../lib/lib.cpp" to be added to the project
so there's that
user1804599
TU Delft
so how insane would be to do
Very insane.
wait, not so much
@ThePhD guarantees not-null though right
15:37
Ergh... the level of stupidity and laziness on the main site is staggering sometimes
or do I just call the dtor there?
or wait, the address won't be valid after the ctor
I just need to new it
Why not just put it in a std::unique_ptr and make_unique it?
oh shit but I don't know the type it was constructed from
@ThePhD I don't think my libc has unique_ptr
I could try getting the 6.1.0 I guess
Or just 5.x? I mean, I don't know the state of Linaro or avr-gcc, really.
@BartekBanachewicz Well shit, you're out of luck with 5.x ^
that's also ARM, not AVR
15:43
wrangle auto_ptr into shape for it?
THERE IS NO SOLUTION GOOD ENOUGH
grrahrharjahrjahrjhsjad
AVR doesn't even have <memory> lmao
this is so sad
maybe I should just use raw pointers
wait what if I template the thing and forward the args
that wasn't there in 1998
@BartekBanachewicz wouldn't it be fairly easy to c+p your own impl? enough for what you need?
15:51
    template<typename... Args>
    Latcher(Args&&... args) : impl(new Impl(std::forward<Args>(args)...)) { }

    ~Latcher() { delete impl; }
@Mysticial how many did you do again?
@Mysticial Is that beyond the current world record?
@ThePhD Yeah. Previous record was 13.3.
quite an improvement
@Mysticial time for verification :)
@Mysticial You suck.
15:52
@Mysticial RIP. Time to beef up y-cruncher and then beat their record.
@Mysticial Is that publicly announced? (source?)
Ven
Ven
@Mysticial you lost the record? :p
hmm yeah I like the idea of the template there
a lot of code copy-paste but ugh
@Ven No. They used my program.
user1804599
@Mysticial Nice. :)
15:52
You should do 1 quintillion digits over 200 lifetimes.
it works and it's safe
Ven
Ven
@Mysticial oh \o/ works fine for you then
@ThePhD They used y-cruncher.
Ran from July to November. On a quad-socket x 18-core Haswell.
Ven
Ven
@Mysticial do you have writeups about it?
15:53
@Ven I just woke up and got the email.
Wait, if they use y-cruncher does that mean @Mysticial gets the credit for the World Record too?
if I had unique_ptr I wouldn't even need a dtor
but then again
@ThePhD yes
brb, heading to work.
Ven
Ven
found it
maybe I could actually use auto_ptr
Ven
Ven
15:54
@BartekBanachewicz NO
NO
NO
NO
@Mysticial Their website beats yours in hipsterity.
Just implement a cheap unique_ptr.
It's not all that hard, right?
@ThePhD it's quite literally what I just wrote I guess
Ven
Ven
15:54
@BartekBanachewicz auto_ptr is cancerous. Just write your own unique_ptr.
#triggering intensifies
template<class T>
class unique_pointer {
    T* t;
public:
    template<typename... Args>
    unique_pointer(Args&&... args) : t(new T(std::forward<Args>(args)...)) { }

    ~unique_pointer() { delete t; }
};
enough?
Yeah sure why not, that'll get the job down.
Ven
Ven
not quite, no. write move operators and forbid copies
Alright, I just verified that the validation file is legitimate. So the computation is real. Looks like I got some work to do this week.
15:56
I also need make_unique now
Ven
Ven
well mostly forbid copies. I guess the generated move operator is fine?
frankly the code does become a bit more complex
Ven
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz your ctor is make_unique.
tbh do you really need that specific case of exception safety here...?
15:57
@ThePhD not really
Ven
Ven
heh.
I'm not using exceptions
Ven
Ven
unique_bartek<int> a(3);
unique_bartek<int> b = a;
// destructed!1
unique_pointer(unique_pointer const&) = delete;
unique_pointer& operator= (unique_pointer const&) = delete;
Ven
Ven
seemsgood
I'm not sure you get move operations generated for you if you do that, tho
15:59
let's write unique then
Ven
Ven
not sure it counts as user-defined. I'm bad at C++
> Disk Failures 0
WOAH
You need to write the move operators in manually.
Ven
Ven
right
Don't you usually get a bunch of those?
16:01
you need to null out the pointer in the moved-from object, any default generated move operation based on member-wise move won't do that
IIRC Mysticial recently improved the calculation to be a bit safer and this guy also seemed to be a lot less efficient with the hardware than Shigeru was?
Ven
Ven
@ratchetfreak right, that too
@Mysticial what a terrible website.
hides face in hands
> Good News: Microsoft (R) C/C++ Compiler has stopped optimizing
16:05
this isn't even remotely funny
how can you guys keep writing in C++
I am really trying hard here
go back to C with features
I was like "nevermind I know Haskell, let's just take it for what it is and use it"
but it's unusable
it's actively working against me on every step of the way
@Griwes Oh. I didn't notice the added link.
Now that I do, I spent over a minute clicking on everything on the page wondering why it is only 1 static page. Fuck that.
@BartekBanachewicz You're Puppying hard
@sehe easy to say without actually saying where I'm wrong
oh also of course unique_ptr<Derived> won't convert to unique_ptr<Base>
Why must you be wrong
16:13
why won't you simply copy-paste some std::unique_ptr implementation to your project
> simply
Have you ever "simply" copied part of a general purpose library?
> Before being able to hit a target, you have to know what your target is. The ultimate goal of a Christian is to become like Jesus (Romans 8v29): loving, joyful, peaceful, patient, kind, good, faithful, gentle, self-controlled (Galatians 5v23f). src
user1804599
They forgot "a moron".
user1804599
And "dead".
16:16
maybe I could simply not free up memory
user1804599
git gc
> She mirrored His image during the whole 28 years of her life, before and after her diagnosis of cancer in 2007, in a way, I can only dream of.
Would Jesus put commas in the wrong place?
@BartekBanachewicz why are you rewriting unique_ptr?
@Rerito why do you think I am rewriting it?
@Rerito ~~embedded~~
16:17
> By “accident”, the last three digits turn out to be my date of birth (in German notation)!
Teehee
Alrighty then
what I want to say is "this class needs this component, please guarantee that it's not null"
unique_ptr actually doesn't help me with that
std::reference_wrapper<component> ?
won't extend lifetime
neither will && as we already established
Then just component ?
16:19
he needs polymorphism
^
I'd be super happy to use a value
but then I obviously need to template the taking class
maybe that's the way really
let me rewrite this yet again
Some stats about the computation:
- 4 x Xeon E7-8890v3 @ 2.5 GHz
- 72 physical cores, 144 threads
- ~1.23 TB of physical memory
- 105 days, 3 times interrupted
- 22% multicore efficiency
- Peak Disk Usage: 110 TiB
- Total Bytes Read: 7.91 PiB (Yes, that's PB as in petabytes)
- Total Bytes Written: 7.15 PiB
@BartekBanachewicz Sounds legit
value_ptr or unique_ptr, I guess.
> In the book, Donald Knuth investigates all verses with number 16 of the third chapter in each biblical book
Citing a tradition
16:22
I don't get it :|
1>c:\projects\testbed\latcher.h(6): fatal error C1001: An internal error has occurred in the compiler.
1>  (compiler file 'f:\dd\vctools\compiler\cxxfe\sl\p1\c\template.cpp', line 5132)
well, this Sender<SimpleLatcher<5>>{ {} }; looks p ok
so template, then take by value
@thecoshman That's because you don't lurk and don't scroll
o_0 well I just heard someone say nVidia by spelling it out...
You win
'm back!
16:35
where from. Did you survive surgery
@sehe Just from work to home. :)
Congrats
@sbi Eh, just figured I could hang out here more. :) Kind of forgot about it for a few years.
@ThePhD They ask you for an expected compensation so they know who to match you with. (i.e. If you want 500k, then they won't bother talking to firms that are looking to pay 100k.)
On the other hand, low-balling yourself means you could miss out on more. But that goes both ways.
If you're on the lower-end of the payscale in comparison to other people with similar positions, you won't be the first to get laid off - all other things being equal.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I can't tell if that's sheer luck. Or if Seagate got their shit together after Backblaze caught them with their pants down.
16:54
so apparently arduino doesn't have std::move
any ideas
@R.MartinhoFernandes I did just install GCC 6.1
16:55
I guess I'll use raw pointers
raw pointers are for real men
Xeo
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz Forbid moves then
or implement deep-copy (i.e., value_ptr)
or make move not leave behind nullptr, but an empty impl or something (as in, not nullptr but does nothing on all operations)
@BartekBanachewicz does your compiler have proper move semantics?
if not then std::move is useless
@Mysticial tl;dr you suck at multidthreaded code?
17:18
My phone just randomly rebooted itself... I take that as a sign I need to buy a new one. Don't correct me
@thecoshman It's probably disk bound.
@Mysticial tl;dr you suck at caching?
Based on the hardware specs, I would say it was almost certainly disk bound.
@thecoshman Yeah pretty much. My implementation is within a factor 2 of optimal in terms of disk access for that particular algorithm. But it's not optimal.
The guy used some pretty suspicious tuning settings for the disk I/O. I'm not sure how much of an effect that had on performance.
Isn't y-chruncher at the point where you basically need to use a network mounted drive? like pure sata isn't really fast enough for you
user1804599
17:25
@thecoshman (Normal) network is only 100 MB/s and is slower than SATA. But either way, you need an insane amount of bandwidth to keep up with those chips. My 4-core Haswell @ 4 GHz needs 2 GB/s to keep up. This guy has 72 cores Haswell @ 2.5 GHz with only 4 GB/s bandwidth.
@Mysticial well yeah, but you can use like a 10gb/s network to got to a machine that then do what ever it needs to whisk up that much IO
I've really failed to be able to work today :(
Just couldn't think smart enough to get much of worth done
That guy's box needs somewhere like 45 GB/s bandwidth to keep up with the cores assuming the computation scales linearly (which it doesn't). But either, you a long ways from getting there either via network or disk.
You actually use all that disk IO for caching of data don't you?
basically doing your own paging
I would love to have to money to throw into a mad setup for crunching pi or the likes
I guess you could re-sell a lot of the hardware afterwards
"Almost new hardware, only used once or twice for stressing the be-Jesus out of it"
@thecoshman The disk is basically for the computation. And physical memory is used as a cache for the disk. All done manually.
Is it me or is YouTube exceptionally slow today.
17:42
@ratchetfreak I think so
One good thing about this latest Pi computation is that it's the first one in 3 years. And there have been a LOT of intrusive and dangerous changes to the program in the last 3 years. The code used in this latest computation bares little resemblance to the code used in the 2013 computation.
And therefore had never really been "validated" at these extreme sizes.
17:58
oh another thing is I can't use inference with arduino
because it expects the whole setup be done in setup
so I can't declare a variable outside if I don't know its type

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