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15:14
> Alpine Linux is a security-oriented, lightweight Linux distribution
I wonder why they don't use systemd
nwp
nwp
@R.MartinhoFernandes time to leave, before you spend your weekend locked in?
Aug 15 at 15:37, by R. Martinho Fernandes
systemd took over udev and logging, also does firewall, UEFI bootloader, DNS cache, and it even has a fucking web server to serve journal events over HTTP.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I wasn't serious.
I know it's a fucking clusterfuck.
Missing from that list is NTP and definitely other things I don't want to know about.
lenovo does this marketing that looks good
but if I were the guy and the car was running
id be vomiting in a couple of mins
esp if just woke up
15:19
also good luck trying to use a notebook with so much sun rays shining
NTP was added because they changed something that broke some systems. For a while the fix was to blame the fault on the user and ask them to install NTP. Later the fix changed to "systemd now does its own NTP".
@AlexM. Doesn't look like he's wearing a seatbelt. What a maverick.
I mean, it changed to "systemd now does its own NTP; wrongly".
I am ranting again.
@R.MartinhoFernandes all software grows until it can function as a smpto server
Really angry day today.
15:25
@R.MartinhoFernandes I call that a work day
@milleniumbug he's just a hipster
@R.MartinhoFernandes How is systemd's NTP wrong?
> Currently systemd and journald have no automatic way of sending mail notifications on failing systemd units or other error conditions.
^ A PROBLEM THAT NEEDS FIXING
but of course, it's no longer hipster to have beard, so he's post-hipster, but you wouldn't undrstand
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think ranting is good.
It's easier to do things that are funny, interesting or insightful when you're talking about what went wrong.
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
15:27
> FlimFlammer currently I can't host my webserver if grub fails to progress, so this project solves that problem by allowing grub to host a full dynamic webserver... as part of a cluster
@Griwes It uses timeX.google.com, servers which deliberately tick wrongly.
@R.MartinhoFernandes We upgraded to CentOS 7 recently and discovered the new interface naming convention of systemd. What previously was "eth5", is now "enp130s0f1d1Eyjafjallajökull5646a54644asdasjd"
@GundolfGundelfinger There's a config flag for that.
Even ignoring concerns related to involving a third-party like Google in this, this is braindead because Google's time servers are intentionally not proper NTP servers.
@R.MartinhoFernandes ...what does it even mean to "deliberately tick wrongly"?
@R.MartinhoFernandes JFC.
Regardless of what you think of leap smears, the point is that these servers are not meant for general public usage, and hardcoding them as defaults in systemd is just... I don't even.
> Its up to the distros to register an ntp pool product. systemd is not a product. Its just some toolset people can build products from. We cannot use the ntp pool hence. If the googl time servers
jfc
Even if you ignore the fact that this comment is cut short
this is such a retarded approach I can't even.
> shitty servers as default are better than none.
ahahahahahahhahhsahahahhhh
oh wait you're serious
let me laugh even more
So, let me get this straight.
A bunch of Linux distros have decided to depend on a package maintained by a bunch of idiots.
@EtiennedeMartel They didn't decide.
Oh ffs, don't get me started.
user559633
15:37
If talking about systemd, they got hustled by Red Hat
systemd devs are not only idiots, but they're also essentially bullies.
-5
Q: why cout<"Hello" evaluated to true?

Deepak It is giving the output hi if (cout<"hello") and no output if it is (cout>"hello") Same thing is happening with cin. Can anyone explain me how this is evaluated. It is happening with any kind of string. #include<iostream> using namespace std; int main() { if(cout<"hello") { cout<<"cout<"hello"<

/cc @Mysticial
turbo-c++ strikes again?
Lad next to me looking into a bug, shouts out "Oh come on!", I take a look at what he's getting annoyed at... there's a log message (along the lines of) "Error, Completed... maybe"
Aug 15 at 15:35, by R. Martinho Fernandes
That's how they work. They make silly opinionated decisions, then go around asking devs to change their code so that it works with systemd's breaking changes.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wait, you're telling me Hanlon's razor doesn't work here?
15:38
Aug 15 at 15:35, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Or they subsume EVERYTHING AND THEIR DOG and thus tie every fucking program under the sun to systemd via their dependency trees.
@EtiennedeMartel ^
I've ranted about systemd way too much in this room already.
You can just read around those messages.
It's fine, I don't want to get angry.
Well, angrier.
I have a major release to finish.
Just make sure you don't miss this dependency tree: neofutur.net/IMG/png/libsystemd-journal0.png
@Borgleader That's Turbo C++?
Oh now really! I am getting a NPE from within a method that I am meant to be mocking out!
@Griwes Oh lol, the current fix is to warn when building systemd.
15:47
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes.
TOTAL RETARDATION in systemd
<_< >_> <_< >_> <_>
ah I forgot about that retarded tmux issue
@Borgleader I raise you:
-12
Q: have no time need a simple c code

vov4ukkHave no time to do it by myself so asking you for help.Need to write code on c which would calculate this enter image description here factorial can be written as a function .

oopsie... I was setting up the class to test, then in the test making a new instance of it :D
user559633
@R.MartinhoFernandes Why is libpulse a dependency for qemu to talk to systemd journal? Is that a contrived example, am I reading it incorrectly, or is it really that zany?
15:52
@Mysticial A bold move.
@tristan I don't know. Sound?
user559633
@R.MartinhoFernandes :| But...what if you've not installed sound drivers? Still demands sending through pulse audio deps? Trying to determine the level of my feigned outrage
@tristan I don't think qemu needs to talk to journald. My guess is that it is libpulse that needs to, and qemu just needs libpulse for sound.
user559633
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah, thanks. Misread the dep tree then. Thanks for the responses, especially because they're about systemd
Someone's trying to show off their "new laptop with 4K ultra HD (3840x2160) resolution": stackoverflow.com/questions/40296593/…
16:03
@Shoe I know a guy with a 4.5k macbook. It's a lot of trouble to keep it safe, and sometimes he refuses to use it, like when he forgets his surge protector at home.
A Windows or Linux laptop with the same specs would probably be only 1k. Problem solved.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm going to go on record as guessing that a large part of this is stems from trying to substitute mindless iteration for actual design.
@Mysticial You probably can't get a Windows or Linux laptop with the same specs. You can get one for 1K, but it won't be the unbalanced mess that a Mac laptop would give you (with way too much CPU, too little memory, and a GPU that was barely mid-range 5 years ago).
@Mysticial Apparently not, but it allowed cout < "hello" which i found odd as fuck.
Seriously, I haven't re-checked recently, but that was certainly how things seemed to work out the last time I looked carefully.
@Mysticial rofl wow
16:10
@Mysticial Can you get a Windows laptop with the same overall quality of engineering?
@JerryCoffin Fair point. 16gb RAM is too little memory?
@JerryCoffin The CPU is just for advertising. They keep the memory low so that it forces you to get a new laptop on the next iteration. They don't need a GPU because nothing that runs on Mac will be able to use it.
I think the extra $1k comes from 1TB (or similar) HD + some SSD stuff.
@Mysticial Photoshop?
@caps You can get that for like $300.
But Apple marks it up under the disguise of "certified for Mac".
@Mysticial As an internal HD?
16:13
A 1TB SSD costs $300.
Sorry, but if you're paying $1k for 1TB HD + some SSD, you're being robbed blind.
@caps A 1 TB internal HD is $80 USD. A 500GB SSD is $160 or so.
@caps I'd consider it marginal today. As the base, I guess it's all right, but I wouldn't buy a machine it it couldn't be upgraded to at least 32 Gig.
=/
I really dislike OCaml.
@Mysticial What about a 2TB SSD? It's an extra $1.2k on a macbook pro--$800 for a 1TB SSD.
This language was not meant for developing any kind of serious software, it seems.
16:14
The default is 512gb SSD
@caps hehe gotta buy the lightest notebook so I can carry more things
For MBP
@caps Do you even need a 2TB SSD?
@Mysticial lol
TBH, you're better off with a 500GB SSD + 2 TB hard drive. Macs can't do that because they only have one slot.
16:15
If you're a dev + media enthusiast + gamer I could see breathing easier with 2TB instead of 1TB.
@caps Jesus fuck that's enough to buy how many 1TB SSDs?
you have to store your "research" somewhere
@caps You basically making up reasons to pay the 200% markup on Mac stuff.
6
@R.MartinhoFernandes Quite a few if they're external. My 2TB external was nowhere near that much for sure.
@Mysticial No, I was answering your question :p
I have a Windows laptop with an overclockable Skylake i7, 48 GB ram, 128 GB SSD, 2 TB HD. And that was $2100 and it came with a free 27 in. monitor.
16:18
@caps 1TB internal SSDs cost $300.
If it was a Mac, it would be $7000 + and additional $500 for a "Mac certified" monitor.
@Mysticial Sweet. I could go for that. Where did you get it?
That's more beefy than my work desktop.
But I manually upgraded that memory.
But that was a year ago. Better stuff exist now.
@Mysticial based on reviews it's unstable laptop
I know you have the standard "look back at code from a year ago and you see so many ways you could make it better"... I'm getting the feeling for code I wrote today :(
16:23
@thecoshman Iterative design. Re-write it.
nah, it works now :P
@ProblemSlover It's an MSI. :shrug:
@Mysticial Like MBPs :D
It's just the mechanism I have for configuring this... but I don't think I really can do much better...
@R.MartinhoFernandes MBPs?
16:24
@Mysticial MacBook Pros.
I could maybe reduce some of the overhead by using annotations...
(joke, if it's not clear)
But that just adds another layer of complexity
@caps I totally agree with this though. My Steam partition is getting close to 1TB.
Guys, I'm a Professional Scrum Master now. I feel so agile... in a certified way!
16:27
you poor thing
@Mysticial I'll see your raise, and re-raise with a "broad enough to cover the whole universe".
-1
Q: ideas to do a research paper in Software Engineering

A.EPlease suggest some easy and interesting ideas to do a Research Paper in Software Engineering. It can be in: Software requirements, software architecture, and software project managements. not necessarily need to be in these areas.

user1804599
@fredoverflow agile is a hoax
@fredoverflow Hint of the day on agility: tie your hair into a pony tail while you're on the parallel bars.
Does it work on concurrent bars as well?
16:32
@ProblemSlover I don't deny that. I had to go through several rounds of updates before I got the drivers stable enough to not leak the full 48GB of memory. But most people won't notice because Windows forces the updates. I manually control mine.
There's also the big memory instability debacle that I had a month ago - which I never solved. I suspect that to be a hardware problem. But I haven't see anyone else with similar stability issues that isn't something like a defective screen.
maaan 2TB SSD
I can see where it'd be useful but it seems so big to me
I make do with 120 and still have 25 left
@AlexM. Yeah. I don't see the point.
@R.MartinhoFernandes And it's nice to have it as an SSD. Faster app bootup and all that.
500 GB is enough to hold the OS and all my steam games with plenty of room left.
@AlexM. For VMs
storage
16:34
@Mysticial I keep games on my HDD
I haven't encountered a game with loading times being a problem since Gothic 3
many years ago
Everything else (like Anime) don't need to be on an SSD.
I'd appreciate an SSD if I did something like
@AlexM. My laptop only has a 128GB SSD. So I put the games on the HD. No issues there.
machine learning or similar
and dealt with humongous datasets
@ProblemSlover Exactly. If you're a dev you have GBs and GBs of VMs. If you're a gamer you may have 1TB or more of games. And if you're into animes or music or something there goes dozens more GBs.
16:35
and did load/save often
I'm actually in all of those categories. I keep my music on an external SSD, but it would be nice if I had a duplicate, or a big enough HD to feel comfortable leaving it on there instead.
@AlexM. That's what people used to think about GBs back in the day.
@caps I run games in my vm
;p;
@caps linux host
@ProblemSlover Sounds painful.
@caps flexible
I'm tempted to buy another windows license, so I can have a dev environment in a VM instead of on my host machine.
But I don't think that makes sense until I buy myself a new computer, which is a ways off yet.
16:37
@caps but you need a good VGA.. because efficiency is like 30-50%
@caps so I got 1080GTX
@Mysticial you need more games.
fwiw
reserving only 20GB for games or so
would be a good exercise in making yourself finishing them for a change
instead of installing 100 games and switching all the time
I do that sometimes
I mean most of the time
unless I get addicted like how I did now with Paladins
I install 100 games and just don't play them
Turns out the docker engine lead follows me on Twitter and after I ranted a bit there he assigned someone to fixing my gripe.
@caps Oh you buy windows license :P
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sweet.
@ProblemSlover Usually I just use the one that comes on my computer, but that's no good when I want to consume another license for a VM.
16:54
@caps Recent versions of Windows (at least in the higher-end licenses) specifically allow (for example) a single license for both the host and up to 3 (or somewhere around there) guests at a time (though I believe they're all supposed to be running on a single piece of hardware at any given time).
@caps anyway thanks for paying to Microsoft for wuindows. because I never bought license because don't consider it worth pay for :P
@ProblemSlover SMH. If you use it on a regular base it is "worth pay for"
@JerryCoffin I just have the Home license right now.
@caps well .. II'm perfectly fie without windows. primary purpose is just entertainment
@ProblemSlover If you use it for entertainment that's still using it.
Just got my first Clang ICE. Where's my medal?
16:57
@rubenvb How about you lick the ICE as a reward?
@caps So...don't do that.
@fredoverflow hrmpf
@caps Yeah , but still not gonna pay them. bothing enforces me to do so. :D
Anyone have a self-contained value_ptr laying around?
Having trouble avoiding slicing here.
I don\t mind to pay for linux(ubuntu) inly because of its transparency and openness
17:05
LOL Ubuntu transparent.
Mir is short for Mirror. Is a mirror transparent? I think not.
^ That is what you call logic.
17:27
@rubenvb hm? well come on man. I don't claim it totally transparent .but compare to the MS..
@ProblemSlover Every one of those things has a downside and an upside.
Mac, Windows, Linux/*.
when your selection is that
it makes sense duh
if you wanted an OS with no downsides
you'd be picking TempleOS
@AlexM. Can I watch Netflix on TempleOS?
The website even uses either Flash or Java, I can't tell as I have neither plugin.
@rubenvb Probably with a libcaca rendering.
Hmm where did boost::copy_ptr go, and more importantly: did it solve the slicing problem?
17:34
@rubenvb no, Netflix is the work of the Devil
and God does not endorse watching it
@rubenvb It has a flight simulator though.
Not sure if that's interesting enough to post here.
But I did, so deal with it :P
@StackedCrooked Surely not as interesting as the Lebanese restaurant where I'm going in a few minutes :p
Ell
Ell
18:17
I think there are false widows in our storage dungeon o.O
I can't tell though. They might be cave spiders
@Morwenn sounds good
18:50
sup
19:06
I will give a talk on C++ templates
And I was encouraged to make comparisons with C#/Java Generics
Which I know nothing about
And also they suck
c++ class templates generate unrelated types, generics generate type-erased types
is my understanding
Ven
Ven
Hi
19:27
> Nothing, like any other type, can be made nullable, giving the type Nothing?.
> Nothing? can only contain one value: null. In fact, Nothing? is the type of null.
@rightfold Interesting, so Kotlin does not need Scala's Null type.
user1804599
Just forget about null
user1804599
Don't add it to your type system and don't add null literals
Kinda hard to forget about null on the JVM...
@rightfold What is the value of a "Java reference" field before it is explicitly initialized, in the absence of null? Or is the type system sophisticated enough to forbid access to the field before it is explicitly initialized?
so I bought new preamp
instead of null, add nothing
of type Nothing (bottom type)
19:55
But then how do you prevent assigning nothing to a String variable?
20:11
@Borgleader Title of the day:
-10
Q: C# soundplayer please help me fast to do it

arshiya.paHow we play two sounds is conditional on the first timed don't use thread and sync SoundPlayer sound_1 = new SoundPlayer(Quran.Properties.Resources.hamd_1); SoundPlayer sound_2 = new SoundPlayer(Quran.Properties.Resources.hamd_2); private void textBox2_Click(object sender, EventArgs e) { /...

> don't use thread and sync
> — “Until now, the WHO’s definition of infertility – which it classes as a disability – has been the failure to achieve pregnancy after 12 months or more of regular unprotected sex. (…) But the new standard suggests that the inability to find a suitable sexual partner – or the lack of sexual relationships which could achieve conception – could be considered an equal disability.”
WTF is that bullshit?
Bad dating life is now a disability? I am very disabled then. All of my life.
How reasonable is the telegraph.co.uk site?
welp, someone just got a free codementor session from me
20:29
@Mysticial I raise you
0
Q: When the computer opened, Using Windows Api and c++

Nurullah.cI want to know: How can find "when is my computer turned on, using Windows API and c++". Which API i can use ?

@sehe Well after having stack you pretty much had a devenv. Hate would build with that :P
You've picked a huge project with a lot of deps to build
I know that simply getting an IDE shouldn't be that hard
20:44
@StackedCrooked It was indeed good :p
@Borgleader Oooh. You win today. I don't think I can beat that.
But I'm so full right now. I ate too much ç__ç
I should have taken kibbe instead of chich taouk.
@Borgleader There aren't too many questions that can have so many things wrong with it in such little text.
@wilx I've been disabled for 25 years now then :p
Why would not being able to make children a problem when there's already a problem with overpopulation? :o
@Borgleader I can't find that question where someone asks how to enable Javascript using Javascript.
20:48
wat
@Morwenn Yeah. I have been disabled like that to almost 28 years of age.
You're still ahead of me x)
@Mysticial wow
1) How can the computer possibly know if it's opened? Does it use temperature sensors on the motherboard to compute the airflow and determine that there's nothing blocking airflow on the side?
2) How can the Windows API even run when the computer is off?
3) C++ is not a fucking API. It's a language.
@Mysticial There are actually intrusion detecting cases, AFAIK.
20:58
@wilx My server board is an option in the BIOS and a slot on the board to hook up an intrusion detector.
But the vast majority of machines don't.
nwp
nwp
@R.MartinhoFernandes pretty sure you a word there
21:14
@wilx There's probably gonna be a lot more shit on both sides in the final week. It's completely intentional.
nwp
nwp
for some reason clang gives me a warning due to unused parameters in a system header and --system-header-prefix=path doesn't help :(
@Mysticial You think FBI is not impartial and did that on purpose to tarnish HRC?
Though TBH, the only thing can possibly further hurt Trump at this point is gonna need to be some sextape video of sort.
@Mysticial Wasn’t that the pussy grabbing video?
@Mysticial A whole new world of kinky opens.
21:18
@wilx I'm saying that it's gonna be hard to beat that video. He didn't actually grab anyone's pussy in that video. It'll take a video of him actually grabbing one to hurt him even more.
@wilx Maybe not the FBI directly. But it's certainly possible to believe that they were influenced.
@Mysticial After 8 years under Democratic leader government? I do not believe that.
@wilx Yeah, so it would've come up earlier instead of 11 days before the election.
@Mysticial It initially did come up much sooner. However, according to the linked article, the source of the new emails is from the probe into the Democratic party hack.
@BartekBanachewicz I kinda understand. The only other two times I needed/wanted Haskell ended similarly though (one was pandoc and the other one... don't remember). Sure, I'm not at once intimidated out of trying Haskell for serious projects, but I sure was persuaded out of trying "right the fuck now" today :|
My co worker is a real Haskell adept and I'd love to up my game so we could just do little jobs in Haskell.
next time just start simple with stack and your text editor of choice
21:27
stack's snapshots render sandboxes obsolete, and having the compiler and packages hygienically separated is a really nice thing
@Mysticial You're probably paid in exposure for that second one there.
also I want to play this but I think I'm missing the fingers+pick thing
it sounds great though
@nwp a letter, actually (area)
@Mysticial ♪♫ one of these things is not like the other ♪♫
21:30
@BartekBanachewicz Cheers. You know my editor of choice :) Stack was nice to have finally seen working. Looks quite "understandable" (even if still a bit yucky with the "hackages" or what do they call the "snapshots of things randomly built together so that probably means they'll jell really well" :))
Stackage Snapshots
and they're not random, they're p much "latest versions of everything that don't conflict"
which, again, means you can base off of the whole snapshot, which makes sharing packages across projects sane
because if they use the same snapshot you can be sure that installing any dependency won't break anything
@rubenvb never heard of it. Found this kristoczaj.bitbucket.org/cz/… Looks like something like this might (have) be(en) part of Boost Move at some point in its evolution?
@BartekBanachewicz My definition of random. It's basically the Monte Carlo/Bogosort approach to version resolution :)
I appreciate why it is handy and a huge improvement.
It's not unlike Linux distros "code-name" repos
nwp
nwp
22:20
Debian people forgot a link again. libboost_filesystem.so links to libboost_filesystem.so.1.61.0 but they forgot to make a link libboost_program_options.so that links to libboost_program_options.so.1.61.0 and now stuff doesn't work.
now I have to screw with system files which will screw me back in the next update :(
22:34
@sehe Literate haskell is where it's at.
Ell
Ell
My lecturer likes literate Haskell
Lecturate Haskell
@Ell Does he present it during lectures? /begin{documetn?
Ell
Ell
He uses pandoc
But now we are in 2nd year he doesn't use it anymore
Good nighty night~
22:57
@Ell Does he still teach Haskell or is it a new language?
23:25
@Xeo You should watch Vivid Strike. At least episode 4.
Xeo
Xeo
Why?
It's the last kind of awesome you'd expect out of a Nanoha show.
Xeo
Xeo
o..kay?
Hint: There's blood.
There's no blood in any other episode of Nanoha in all seasons.
omg
how more serious can Nanoha get
23:33
I gave up on Nanoha after Vivid. But I watching Vivid Strike anyways a low priority (side monitor while I'm working) kind of thing. And holy shit. That ep4. The most satisfying shit in a fucking long time.
Xeo
Xeo
@Mysticial StrikerS has a couple bloody scenes
It does? I don't remember. lol
The last 2 minutes of Vivid Strike ep4 was like they took a page out of Elfen Lied and put school uniforms on everyone.
Xeo
Xeo
@Mysticial When Nanoha catches Teana's Blade (ep8) and then the flashback of Nanoha getting heavily injured, plus a few others.
@Xeo Oh that doesn't count. Those are scratches. lol
Xeo
Xeo
Also, StrikerS has people dying IIRC, so eh

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