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17:00
@johnathon So?
@VermillionAzure it's still thread-sort. finding palindromes just uses a slightly more complex predicate.
@johnathon You know if I google for thread sort there actually is no thread sort
@VermillionAzure there IS a thread-sort.
@johnathon link
17:04
#French artillery active on #Mosul front. Via @todayinsyria https://t.co/ff3QTMdbV4
@johnathon Apparently not
frogeaters are killing civilians in Mosul
They're just sorts that use threading
@VermillionAZ "By default, threads including their subthreads are sorted according to the value of gnus-thread-sort-functions. By customizing gnus-subthread-sort-functions you can define a custom sorting order for subthreads. This allows for example to sort threads from high score to low score in the summary buffer, but to have subthreads still sorted chronologically from old to new without taking their score into account."
@johnathon So it's sorting threads. There doesn't seem to exist a unique algorithm which is called "thread sort" like merge sort or heap sort or radix sort
that's what I mean
17:07
@VermillionAzure it IS an algorithm, it's just not in the std:: tool box so to speak. The algorithm exists though.
@johnathon I disagree.
I want a paper or something more concrete rather than a function list
@VermillionAzure feel free to. Go through Knuth's books and implement all the algorithms that's not been implemented yet sometime.
@johnathon Like I said I can't find it on Google
So I dunno
@VermillionAzure There's a lot of things you can't easily google.
@Abyx I guess their artillery can't possibly be accurate, right?
meanwhile Russian bombings never miss their target
17:15
@Puppy I rather wonder what they're doing there in the first place
probably has nothing to do with all of those terror attacks in France lately
by the guys currently occupying Mosul
lol this bullshit again. "terrorists attacked us, let's go kill some civilians in another country"
yeah, there are quite a few ISIS militants in Mosul. and shitloads of sunni civilians. much more than in Fallujah
you have shown nothing to indicate that the French artillery is any less effective at avoiding civilian casualties, than, say, Russian bombings
@Puppy did I say anything about its effectiveness?
you seemed to be complaining about civilian casualties in Mosul by French artillery
but I don't see any reason to conclude that they will be any greater than any other military action there by basically every other military force in the area
user1804599
This is awesome.
some of which you back
so I'm thinking either you have some reliable pertinent statistics or just want to whine about the French
@Puppy my point is that there should be no military action at all.
explain that one.. deeply.
17:23
because thousands of innocent civilians will die
oh yeah, I'm sure that Russia, the US, UK, Syrian government, Syrian moderate resistance, and a bunch of other people didn't just spend the last five years doing exactly that
seems rather biased to just lump it on the French right now
and all that modern western humanistic bullshit is about how life is sacred
especially since they've actually been attacked, unlike the Russian actions
yeah. terrorists attacked, go kill civilians.
@Abyx No Lives Matter
17:24
use some logic ffs
sounds better than "We like Assad, one of the worst people on this planet, let's go kill civilians"
> >politics
> >logic
do you even read what you write
@Puppy and bringing Russia and Assad is a whataboutism
not really
@набиячлэвэли uhm, that's not politics
17:26
you're criticizing the French for an action, but it's hardly remotely specific to the French and they're way better than basically everybody else involved
and clearly better than your own country
@Puppy better at what? killing civilians? sure they have lots of experience from Mali and their other African ex-colonies
well, there's no evidence to suggest that they'll kill more civilians than anybody else
and they do have a justification that's not full of shit
so I'm pretty much feeling that's better.
Hey uh
Anybody good at NP?
@Abyx are you from North Africa?
and it's not about effectiveness of French military. it's about participation in joint operation with local Iraqi cutthroats
@johnathon nope
17:29
ah I see
so the French are fine, you just don't like their partners
@Puppy nope, they're not fine
correct me if I'm wrong, but in Iraq there's only fighting between IS and everybody else
so I'm not really sure who the French could have partnered with that would be worse than IS.
it's not like they found a despotic dictator and buddied up with him, like Russia did
and it's not fine that thousands of sunni civilians are about to be slaughtered in this "war against IS"
@Abyx are you sunni?
I'm sure that if the French didn't show up, there would be peace and love and brotherhood all over Iraq
and absolutely not just basically the same war but with more chance of IS winning after all the civilians have been killed
17:32
@Puppy welp, shia militia does many things which are similar to what IS does
and very much not the same war but takes ten times as long so a lot more civilians will be killed
yeah that shit sounds bad
good thing there's a bunch of French guys who don't do that sort of thing
@Puppy yeah, they'd just indirectly help doing it.
anyways, I don't get how it fits into that "human rights" thing
the sooner IS goes out, the sooner the real government can go in
17:37
yeah, but what about all the dead civilians?
basically it's ok to do war crimes because good guys would win sooner
any real government is empowered by the people it serves. The problem isn't a lack of government, it's just that so many of the people are deeply divided on the issue, and that's why IS is so big and powerful really.
I doubt that the French intervention will actually lead to more dead civilians
@Puppy there's a chance it will
but perhaps not drastic. the reality is that if IS is left to do it's own bidding that would be worse than any amount of civilians that are harmed by military interventions.
17:52
I wonder if a programmer lost their job over this one aol.com/article/news/2016/10/15/…;
18:12
hello can anyone help me with few queries on android camera?
Jan 30 '15 at 2:30, by Borgleader
"Hi I have a question about my retirement fund"
"Sir this is a convenience store..."
"I know but it's the only thing open at this hour"
@user3287223 yes I am an expert on those
as I am with everything
thankss
I'm kidding
can u pls tell me who starts camera service?
18:20
@user3287223 I believe it's a part of the Android Operating System
@набиячлэвэли so I will consider that android OS will start the service on its own.....I would also want to know who creates camera HAL? as I dont see any fork or pthread_create function being called in HAL. ALthough I see that there is a new function being called by camera factory which means camera object will be initialised but does it mean HAL process also gets created?
@набиячлэвэли Excuse me. It's actually GNU/Android.
@Nooble xcus me strimmer it's actually /os/gnu/android
@user3287223 If you haven't gotten the message already, you're in the wrong room. This is the C++ room. We know nothing about Android.
Last time I checked, there were half a dozen Android rooms.
Once seems like enough...
18:24
Android room doesnt let me in
:(
You played yourself, kiddo
that is your problem and not ours
I count at least 7 Android rooms. Only 2 of them locked.
@Mysticial Android room's rules. Gee, I wonder why they don't let that guy in :P
@milleniumbug lol, fails at least 3 on that list.
18:30
> Your first message must be “I have read and understood the rules”.
lol
@Nooble Won't get that far. Default username.
oooh
them's some nice rules
good afternoon everyone
Ddefault username is gone now :)
good aftenoern
oh no
still showing here
18:33
my keyboard
it takes about five minutes or so, IIRC
Hey @Nooble is your 3d printer done yet?
__builtin_unreachable is quite powerful to optimize basic stuff.
18:41
What do you optimize with that?
Sorting algorithms? :D
I thought compilers were pretty good at detecting dead branches
@Morwenn Literally unreachable!()
I was trying to optimize a piece of code. To my surprise it was far slower than the original (except sometimes). I threw two __builtin_unreachable in, and suddenly it got consistently faster than the original.
5
18:44
In my case, it probably allows the compiler to assume that some pointers never alias.
Or something along these lines.
I still dont understand how thats useful, MVCE? :P
Declaring stuff unreachable removes entire blocks from the CFG. That can remove branches.
With what I have in my hands, writing an MVCE would be pretty hard :/
@Mysticial I'm just not sure what you would remove that wouldnt be removed by the compiler already but wouldnt break the code
@Borgleader Consider this:
if (std::sin(x) > 10){
    //  Unreachable Code
    //  Lots of bloated stuff.
}
In the general case, the compiler can't determine whether something is reachable or not because it's the halting problem.
user1804599
18:50
@Mysticial and with if (x) __builtin_unreachable();, the implementation can assume that x is false, aiding constant folding
Well ok but that branch doesnt make sense in the first place then :P
@Borgleader A common use-case of unreachable is the default for a switch-statement.
I see
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6031819/emulating-gccs-builtin-unreachable
I found this which i guess is a variant of what you just said
I guess I'll start introducing a few __builtin_unreachable calls in cpp-sort where it appears to make the code faster.
@Borgleader Also enums
@Borgleader never
19:03
Didnt seem to change the output much, maybe the code was "too simple"
unreachable only benefits if you know it's unreachable but the compiler can't prove it and the fact that it's unreachable is a lot of benefit
adding the unreachable in that case only offers 5 lines shorter asm- without the unreacahable you drop off the end of a non-void function which is UB
so the compiler gains nothing by you saying it's unreachable since it can already assume unreachable
the fact that the asm changes at all is arguably a problem in the optimizer
@Puppy OH! This is not coliru, optimizations arent on by default i think
I save one line of asm with -O3
if opts aren't on unreachable is gonna do shit
19:19
Won't it simply be ignored? It would be reasonable.
__builtin_unreasonable
__builtin_unreasonooble
@Borgleader Have your example: without the CPPSORT_ASSUME (which is just a thin wrapper around __builtin_unreachable), the algorithms using half_inplace_merge were dramatically slower than before when I added the selected loop.
The code is sometimes literally twice as slow if I remove the assumptions.
19:37
@Telkitty The exams are closed-book with no formula sheets for this introductory calculus course /cc @VermillionAzure
19:54
@aaron3468 introductory calculus should be things like limits, reimann sums, etc
@aaron3468 at least it was when i took it, pre-calculus was more about solving formula's than working with them as if they were a unit of their own.
@johnathon Functions, limits, derivatives, definite and indefinite integrals, and derivatives of implicit equations for this course. A lot of the professors here are researchers and generally don't have skill at lecturing, which I suppose has its perks. I never understood the point of banning calculation tools when mathematicians have historically relied on them in the form of precalculated tables and reference books.
@Morwenn I find my program consistently runs fastest (on any platform) when __builtin_unreachable is the first thing in main
11
But a fair argument could be made that banning reference material and tools prevents grade inflation, and that university isn't teaching per se, but a means of gatekeeping for the professional and academic worlds
@Aaron3468 I rarely find a need for anything beyond what engineering calculus textbooks contain. I'm also not a research mathematician.
@Aaron3468 perhaps their refusal to allow you to use reference material is an attempt at which to obtain a truly fair grade, to test you on the knowledge and skill that you possess and not on how well you know how to use your reference material.
20:14
@sehe You damn trollbear :')
Say it isn't true
trolling isn't about being outright wrong; it's about being just wrong enough to be annoying
but only to those who are passionate enough to care about the topic
enough to argue over it
@johnathon It's a fair argument, but the point of grading is evaluation (generally to assess eligibility for advancements). While the grade may be more fair without reference material, it doesn't change that grades are proxy measurements and not equivalent to knowledge or skill.
Government gives trillions to companies to stimulate employement. Companies give everything to shareholders. Employement isn't stimulated. Government cuts jobs in public services because they gave trillions to big companies. Yay.
20:18
@Aaron3468 Evaluation yes, but what is being evaluated? Always keep in mind that your test scores not only reflect how you are as a student, but also how good of a teacher you have.
@Morwenn What did we learn? Giving money to your friends is a bad idea if you had expectations of being paid back
@Aaron3468 What did they learn? Well, that was so effective that they plan to give 25 additional trillions to big companies.
lol, happy shareholders :')
Which government/transaction is this, btw?
Anyway, we don't even need more employement. Seriously, we didn't mechanise everything create more jobs, but to make annoying jobs disappear. What we need is a better way to share the acquired resources.
@Aaron3468 French government.
@Morwenn when we had our last bubble here in the USA GM borrowed a lot of money from the US government to bail them out of bankruptcy. GM paid back every red cent too.
@Morwenn perhaps that's what your government had wished had happend
20:27
@johnathon Nope, the plans was to give money to small companies with the hope that they would employ more. In the end, almost all the money went to big companies, then ended in the pocket of their shareholders.
It wasn't even a question of bankruptcy.
@Morwenn someone failed to properly define what a small company is. Or, perhaps, someone did define it and the public wasn't properly informed?
@Morwenn more specifically, those that voted on the measure must not have been properly informed.
It's more like the whole thing was more or less handled by an organism mostly composed of big companies' directors (which also happen to be among the main shareholders of their own companies).
@Morwenn I'm just curious, but what companies were involved , do you know?
@johnathon The scandal seems to involve Radiall.
La year the group got ~€2.5 millions from the governmet and paid only €200k taxes, without creating a single job.
@Morwenn I can't recall ever dealing with them myself, but I've certainly worked in that industry. Their primary customers is the aerospace industry right? Perhaps this is actually something legitimate it just doesn't seem legitimate because of the industry. There's a lot of companies that seem 'big' that really aren't in the areospace industry.
@Morwenn Being an RF connector manufacturer perhaps it's difficult to find people to employ. Be honnest, how many of your friends is going to college to be an RF Engineer?
20:38
@johnathon None AFAICT, but the extra money mostly went in the boss pocket (who owns 87% of the shares).
Seriously, who ever needs to own €250 millions?
@Morwenn if that can be proven , and that would be harder to do than you would think, then there would be a scandal.
@johnathon There's already been a scandal.
@Morwenn is anyone in jail yet?
user image
4
/cc @JerryCoffin
Delightful
20:42
@BartekBanachewicz Derp. The best trolling is done by being spot on
@johnathon Haha, no, I can't remember anyone ever ending in jail in France for financial fraud or equivalent (except a trader).
Weird. Lights turned off in the whole apartment house but sockets still have power.
@Morwenn I'm far from an expert on french law, the most dealings with it I've had is contracts i had to sign when working with Renault. But it seems to me that fraud is fraud, and if they would arrest a trader for fraud, they would arrest anyone for fraud.
@johnathon Just look at our politicians: knee-deep into financial fraud and still trying to run for president. How could they blame other people? Haha.
When you've got enough money, you can buy plenty of lawyers and time.
they are buying time. There will come a day when they can't. And they'll go away. New politicians will take their place, and the cycle will repeat. Try not to knock it too bad, it's better than war any day.
20:51
Anyway, all in all I still feel that trying to create more employement for the sake of it is useless. We strived to remove annoying jobs and succeeded. Now we should find ways to share these resources as needed among everyone.
@Morwenn Move to Spain, i hear programmers and IT folks are in high demand there.
@johnathon I don't care, I already have a job.
@Morwenn how bad is unemployment there?
It's getting worse by the year.
every developed country is close to 'getting worse by the year' or they are already there. There's not a lot of room in between the two anymore. Britain left the EU. That should tell you how fed up your neighbors are getting as well. Truthfully it's probably a little better here in the states, but i'd be willing to wager that the US figures would be better because their inflated somewhat.
20:57
@johnathon The UK hasnt left the EU... yet
@Borgleader It's an inevitability, and from my perspective (usa) they have.
@sehe slightly, just slightly....
@johnathon The US is even worse than Britain- they never would have joined the EU in the first place due to how ridiculously backwards they are, and Trump is a Presidential candidate.
If they're really upset, they'll eat the pringles and be on the phone with every friend they have
21:04
@Puppy For the record in the land of the lounge and everywhere else in my life I'm not a Trump supporter. I'm not a Hillary supporter. And puppy i'd trade politicians with you this election cycle for sure.
Hillary seems imperfect, but Trump is just so outright terrible it's unbelievable
@Mikhail Ha! I voted. There was an election place open for early voting 1 block from my apartment building. They didn't need an Illinois ID. Just a government ID and a proof of residency.
user1804599
Also, not really bugs, but if our universe was a simulation, it would have distance culling optimizations (for example, finite speed of propagation of light) and lazy evaluation at the microscopic level (for example, a particle would be in an indecisive state until observed). Thank goodness we don't have that kind of nonsense. — T. C. Oct 26 '14 at 21:37
Elections will be terrible in France in 2017 too. It'll most probably be thieve vs. fascist or something along these lines.
LOL
in some ways we'd be better with trump over clinton, in some ways we'd be better off with clinton over trump. There's just not enough GOOD in either camp at this point for me to endorse either.
@Morwenn we had someone running for president here that was socialist. We actually had people supporting him.
21:11
Yeah, I liked Bernie's ideas more than the others'.
I don't.
at all.
I'm not surprised.
user1804599
Geert Wilders for POTUS
Vermine Supreme for POTUS.
Free ponies for everyone.
let's just elect a rock
21:14
Well, last time i checked the usa was a republic. Not a socialist government. That's the case in how you vote. However if you read all the federal laws and things people can apply for .... you'll quickly think your living in a secretly socialist government. When I did my taxes i felt like i was living in a socialist government for sure.
republics and socialism are orthogonal
one is how laws are made and the country is governed, one is how the economic system is set up
user1804599
Human needs are very complex and socialism is a good solution for a select number of problems, and pretty horrible for most of them.
@rightfold it's that last part that's the kicker.
user1804599
Health care is one of those things that you really need centralised and collective otherwise poor people die.
user1804599
But OTOH I don't give a fuck that you have to wash your dishes manually because you're poor.
21:18
who is crying about washing dishes manually?
@johnathon I this case, I think Trump is actually preferable--not because his ideas are better, but simply because he's enough less experienced at politics that he's unlikely to get as many of his terrible ideas enacted into practice.
@JerryCoffin you have a very valid point. It's just the chance that he would succeed that worries me.
@JerryCoffin that, and our governor already denounced him. We already have a good idea about where our electorial votes are going.
@johnathon That's certainly a valid concern. I basically have the same concern about both of them, and while Hillary's policies might be less bad (at least on average) I think she's a lot better at playing the game--to the point that she's likely to do more harm overall.
Sadly, I think at this point our only hope is to limit the damage that'll be done.
@JerryCoffin I think Hillary should be behind bars and Trump should be wearing a straight jacket at times.... Sadly, im not being comical.
21:32
hello everyone
@johnathon Do you mean there are times you think he should be allowed out of the straitjacket, or that there are times you simply manage not to think about him at all?
LOL @billyjoel's hilarious jabs during his live recordings http://open.spotify.com/track/2rYVOQQUzRXd9QIcQXwcDZ (to audience:) "I like that chord" (repeats dissonant 3x)
More stuff that I have a sneaking suspicion Jerry would appreciate
And the ape, perhaps.
@JerryCoffin :)
At times like these I regret not having a UPS.
@JerryCoffin I mean there's times that the things that come out of his mouth invoke the feeling that im listening to a 15 year old complain about a girl trying to ruin his reputation.
@JerryCoffin and times that I think he really is delusional.
@wilx What happened
21:35
@JerryCoffin and with Hillary there simply is no doubt.
@Morwenn the picture is even more impressive than the music, for some reason.
@sehe Well, something happened and lights went out but sockets stayed powered. People called the utilities company and after about 30 minutes they fixed it. But they had to, apparently, reset the whole power so my sockets went out for 5 seconds and my PC did reset.
so, you had 30 minutes to save your stuff
@sehe That guy just keeps posting black metal tracks with awesome landscapes. Actually, atmospheric black metal groups on social networks post two kind of things: atmospheric black metal tracks, and pictures of landscapes with trees and/or snow.
what's atmospheric black metal?
metal vaporized by an explosion?
21:39
Meh, and the Internet is still acting up.
@Puppy Black metal that is made to fade into the background radiation while you listen to it
Listening to metal is a strange practice, but I hear it makes a screaming noise that's indescribable
@Puppy listen to it
> a subgenre of black metal which relies on heavy incorporation of atmospheric, sometimes dreamy textures, therefore moving into a less aggressive direction. It often features synthesizers or classical instrumentation, typically for melody or ethereal "shimmering" over the wall of sound provided by the guitars. The music is usually slow to mid paced, and generally features slowly developing, sometimes repetitive melodies and riffs, which separate it from other black metal styles.
@sehe Yes. :) It is not that I lost anything. It is just the whole pain of having to restart sessions and shit.
so they cut the tempo in half and added a keyboard..
or perhaps a violin.
21:42
@Puppy It's basically metal attempting to dilute itself down to the point that its lack of musicality isn't as immediately obvious. :-)
lol
@JerryCoffin lots of metal is musical... but heavy metal elevator music isn't what i'd want to fill my evenings.. ... lol
lol
@PatrickM'Bongo you’ve never seen Revenant in action right? this is not a bad way to start
@wilx You aren't old enough to complain about the pain of taking a shit (though you are undoubtedly old enough for giving a shit to be quite painful).
@JerryCoffin No comment on this one. :D
@johnathon Are you sure? They drop the screaming at 1:37
21:47
@Aaron3468 Very. And it's not the screaming that's detracting to the musical experience for me, it's simply not what I am comfortable listening to.
@Aaron3468 Much in the same way that anything metal probably dosn't appease jerry too much.
I'm aware, although I'm lightly teasing you about it
@Aaron3468 the fact that I listen to metal is enough. I do live in the state that 'invented' country music .... though i steeply belive that was Ireland but who's counting right?
@Aaron3468 funny fact, my father was a country music muscian back in the 70's
@Aaron3468 He tried to teach me to play the guitar, that turned into me teching him new things on the guitar. lol
Personally I'm not much into the idea of 'invention' because it often turns out that the ideas had been permeating society prior to any specific incident. Scientific breakthroughs are often the only situations that can be traced to particular projects with relative certainty, and even then are not always correct.
Oh, that's cool. Which genre did you focus on?
@Aaron3468 I had formal music training in school, i played the saxophone and applied the same theory to the guitar. Major scales to 1-3-5 major cords, 1-3rd flat -5 minor chords, the 145 and a 135 progressions, 1375 progressions etc
@Aaron3468 minor pentatonics to minor harmonics etc
@Aaron3468 i never played 'professionally' in a recording studio or anything like t hat
@Aaron3468 so i was exposed to a multitude of generes
@Aaron3468 classical, blues, rock, country, folk, metal, pop, etc
@Aaron3468 what about you?

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