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00:09
-angle
Also lmao I'm trying to vendor all of LLVM.
This is clearly going to go well.
00:33
@Mysticial I'm trying to get a proposal ready to build a 1 PB of storage computers, what do you think of the node pcpartpicker.com/list/P6g2xY ?
@Mikhail You're an asshole.
:)
I'm here sitting on my shitty 64GB of ram. And a consumer SSD. My other box has only 16 drives. And you have to do this to me? WTF :D
> $18443.71
> shitty 64 GB of RAM
> 16 drives
@Mysticial I'm a going to calculate all the PI
and actually have space to storage it
24 drives
@Mikhail Is there a reason to have 3 CPU coolers with only 2 CPUs?
that would be a typo
But for real, anybody actually know how to build a computer with a ton of disks and get good IO performance?
00:38
@Mikhail Do I count? I've personally only gone up to 16 though.
Did you merge the file systems?
no
that's performance suicide
@Mikhail Seems like the main thing you need to do is figure out the real intent here. If it's going to be a file server, you can probably lose the gtx 1080 graphics card and the 40" monitor without any real loss at all.
Its six workstation for video editing, but also storage. Also I've only got 100k
@JerryCoffin If it's not his money why does it matter? The ability to brag that you're gaming on the wrong machine is priceless.
:)
00:41
"Crunching 500 digits of PI a second and pwning shitty noobs in CoD haay #highperformance"
So, I hooked a RAID controller, added a spliter, and hooked up 24 disks. Sequential disk performance is terrible. I'm wondering if adding more controllers will make it better....
@ThePhD discovers how terminals are supposed to work:
> [8:30 AM] ThePhD: Ugh, god that's the worst in Putty
[8:30 AM] ThePhD: Highlight a line, right-click to copy,
[8:30 AM] ThePhD: it copies BUT ALSO PASTES IT
@PatrickM'Bongo Unintuitive and shitty. D:<
No, you just have your windows habits
@LucDanton [PR #27] Extend strike for a couple more days
[Merged]
makes sense
@Mysticial I can’t imagine it would rocks the boat on that front, that would be a very ambitious change. Note that 7.1.6.2 is concerned with decltype (i.e. the usual unevaluated operand business).
your case requires a copy/move constructor and a destructor
01:03
@PatrickM'Bongo I appreciate that every operating system has different conventions. My only problem is that it means I need to consider them all when I write code, and there isn't exactly such a thing as write-once-run-everywhere. Thankfully some configurations and features are (mostly) run everywhere (that I care about).
> Eth releases patch called "come at me bro," immediately gets attacked and is now offline
Hey uh guys
Can you read my article?
I decided to start a blog...
@VermillionAzure Nope. I don't even see a link to it, not to mention a blog showing up when I click the link...
I dunno if it's any good
@VermillionAzure Interesting post about types, though it too seems to reach a non-answer conclusion. I think it's most helpful to visualize them as a contract applied to some piece of data. That data itself may have a different representations ("1.0", "1", "0b01", etc).
01:16
@Aaron3468 I'll add a final section.
@VermillionAzure Seems like you get side-tracked into an extremely ethereal philosophical discussion, without ever really answering the question. At least as far as programming goes, it's pretty well agreed that a "type" is a definition of some values and some operations that can be carried out on those values. Not much more or less than that. But I'll admit that's probably less interesting than a longer, more philosophical discussion.
Okay, done.
I've always disliked the mathematician definition that goes like this: "Thing B is a C with Z and Y. If you visualize it as G, it can also be F." By the time I've learned all those properties, I've forgotten what B is used for. So there's always value in cutting straight to a practical definition or summary, then branching into philosophical/abstract discussion, then back to a more open (mathematician-like) definition.
@Aaron3468 I agree.
I'll try to tie it back together.
I think it all comes back to writing technique. Who are you writing for? What do you intend to explain?, etc. I recently bookmarked this article which has a helpful set of steps you might like near the bottom.
01:21
@Aaron3468 Bookmarked!
Thanks
01:40
From a practical point of view, I think your target audience would be company recruiters and interviewers who want to see that you can solve a problem using your programming skills. It looks like you want to be in a number-crunching profession, so a few good case studies would be excellent for your front page. Then you can have a personal section on the blog for the more abstract posts :)
@Aaron3468 I think so as well, but I also want to try and tackle ideas for fun :)
I think I'll do Aho-Corasick maybe
@Mysticial Memory mapped files backed by a piece of memory instead of disk is the way windows shares memory between locations. Used in this way it has nothing to do with the hard disk. msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/…
02:14
@Greg still this is bullshit design, don't do it
@Mikhail Its actually the right way to share memory between windows process. I've already had several discussion with some of my colleagues in other similar fields.
@Greg Certainly, but you shouldn't be using multiple processes
Its the future, Windows NT is here, and we can use threads
@Mikhail We'll just have to disagree on that because you don't know the contract requirements.
@Greg Unless your contract says "you must use separate processes" you shouldn't, there is no advantage compared to threads
@Greg Jerry and Mikhail were talking with me about how to use threads properly last night, and it was an interesting discussion. Just a rough impression, but this question leads me to believe processes are a poor choice if you need shared state. A database might be a better decision if processes are required, perhaps
02:25
The only use for processes is to link together two separate code bases, but what kind of nut job advocates for two codes bases when one will suffice?
@VermillionAzure When explaining types to a beginning programmer, I usually say something along the lines that a type tells the computer how to interpret the 0s and 1s in its memory.
Oh...I see you say basically the same thing at the end of your blog.
03:05
@Mikhail Congrats you've discovered we are using multiple code bases in multiple languages.
@Greg Don't do it!!!
@Mikhail What I am suppose to do, rewrite 100 million dollars worth of legacy scientific code?
Make them into DLLs, and then call the dlls all from the same process
Down the road we will be pulling stuff in, and i also have managed stuff and am using memory mapped files with .NET interop to get the unmanaged memory without marshalling
FUCK DON'T DO THAT
03:08
nah its a great way to do things
its amazing
what is marshalling
You: I have too many programing languages, and my code base is fucked, lets add another language to glue everything together
So... you mean C?
Oh I get it
it's english!
Marhalling is when you copy your umanaged memory into managed memory or back in this specific context
Still confused
03:10
Managed memory doesn't let you use pointers except in special circumstances
The irony is that by obfuscating your code you improve your own job security, and can brag about working/leading a large team effort that overcame sophisticated technical challenges.
and it won't let unmanaged code touch the managed code without some obscure settings, it will throw access violation exceptions
the irony is its actually really really easy to read now
Only wimps need such protections. :P
for normal C#/VC++ to native interop using the marshal.copy is fine, but for giant memory blocks transferring back and forth, it might not be the best idea
C# may not be the best idea
Try J++ for speed
03:14
We're already stuck in C# because of the tech implemeneted
most of this stuff I'm just doing in OpenCV with a block of unmanaged memory
and using interop to display it
but there is a bunch of other specialty libraries
i can't get around not using
I need to be able to go to CPython, go to matlab, go to IDL, etc etc
Sounds like you should quit. :)
Thats bullshit, I've had a similar stack, packed everything into dlls and called them from C++
Nah this how you do REAL SCIENCE!
fuck you i'm doing real science
4
^^ that
From a practical standpoint, the more languages that you need, the harder it'll be to hire people. Unless of course that's the whole point. Job security.
03:21
Ah well I'm not going to discuss why we need all those languages, you'll just have to sit there and shake your head.
languages is fine, just poor technical decisions as to how to wrap them
So how would you go to CPython from our required C# platform?
if you say Iron python i will laugh at you.
There are two problems there already:
1. CPython
2. C# platform
Don't use C# as your platform
So am i suppose to re-write a million dollars worth of C# code in C?
03:24
We don't use C in this room
C++ etc
Not clear how dollars convert to lines
did you just lump C and C++ together
them's fightin' words
lol
or they would be if I weren't about to go look for ice cream
03:29
@jaggedSpire good sense of priorities
@LucDanton I'm a shame to the name Lounge with that set of priorities, I know. u_u
one day I might make it up, but that day...is not this day
or night
it's night right now for me
> Ranger pets are now sorted by family in the pet selection dropdown
@PatrickM'Bongo my god, that must mean they have someone that actually plays ranger at anet
@Mikhail So when you were going from C# to C++ where you marshalling to do the interop?
@Greg I don't do C#
haven't touch it since XNA
@Mikhail you said you had a similar stack
03:36
I have matlab, python, and C++
ah, well you can just use embedded python with that
and convert the matlab to c modules
your mistake was C#
not even my mistake
@Mikhail ew methlab
I think you just don't know how to use C# and where it shines in terms of productivity
03:39
@Greg Why are databases not a solution for lightly gluing 30 programs in different languages together?
I think your finding for your self how fun doing real programing is with C#
@Aaron3468 Hmmm, maybe if the database gave me a pointer to a block of memory that i can reuse, is that possible?
The database is the reusable block of memory.
Perhaps that is a solution if all the applications can share and act on the same block of memory without having to marshal/copy
the solution is not to have multiple fucking applications
03:43
@Mikhail I think your angry we are using C#.
I think he is angry you're interoperating in a non-sane fashion and calling his competence into question while defending your bad planning
@Mikhail You're right, im going to call up my client and tell him that he needs to throw his C# code away
A database is a relatively simple way to manage one global copy of data that only requires a very easy web-like interface. You win by being able to push data between processes as well as external clients if you want. The database can even implement thread-safety, journaling, and even backups
@Aaron3468 How would that help me with realtime image processing?
@Mikhail Tell you what, find me an article saying why its bad to use shared memory for realtime image processing.
Hahaha, multiple programs in multiple languages and realtime image processing. I feel very sorry for you ^^; I can feel your pain now. You've been painted into a corner
03:46
ohhhhhhhhhhhh
Realtime image processing in multiple languages? yeah, you're fucked.
@Aaron3468 I don't even mind, I just don't see why people are so annoyed with shared memory, you declare a block, declare a semphore and your good
The alternative is a function call
@Mikhail Its true i can call a function and pass the pointer to the file mapped memory
@Mikhail but how do you suppose i get that memory back into .net?
03:48
Stop with the C#
@Greg It's just very bad design; if one of those programs tramples all over the memory, you are screwed for debugging. How would you answer the question "Which code ****ed my memory?"
^ this
You can't easily because they all have a key to it
@Aaron3468 You check the semaphore
@Aaron3468 I dont think you guys understand, that even if I run everything serial and block, I still have to have file mapped memory to comm between .NET interop
I think that is the gulf of understanding
its either that or marshalling
@Xeo Do you know if Unreal 4 defines any macros that identify itself?
C++-side.
I'm trying to make a built-in guard for Unreal's check stupidity.
04:03
@Greg It's definitely making more sense now that we know why (the client) made those dubious design decisions. Yes, shared memory is your best option in this case, but you will need to ensure either A) Every bloody piece of code in N languages is aggressively debugged/tested so it won't trample memory or B) you design one program which 'manages' access to the main shared memory. B releases the responsibility to be rigorous from all your other code
But hey, if it's all working, no big deal. I'm impressed if there are already efficient ways to debug that monstrosity
Wading through the UE4 source to find what macros they define for their crappy engine.
04:27
@LucDanton Yes, IIRC they have (at least) 1 ranger player
By that I mean who mains ranger
I forgot who it is
that was years ago
@Aaron3468 Hi Aaron, that sounds good. It is the clients fault, but he has good reason, the code bases are there and linking them together gets us what we need for a low price. I think i'm going to do option B, if i do A, I'll just require the memory to accessed through a wrapper that forces locks and unlocks and release. If it gets buggy, worst case scenario i add a logger to the wrapper.
@LucDanton Probably, since I haven't played in 2 years
Prolly they moved on to AGS too
exactly, which is why back-to-back ranger changes is unexpected
Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton (/ˈhɪləri daɪˈæn ˈrɒdəm ˈklɪntən/; born October 26, 1947) is an American politician and the nominee of the Democratic Party for President of the United States in the 2016 election. She served as the 67th United States Secretary of State from 2009 to 2013, the junior United States Senator representing New York from 2001 to 2009, First Lady of the United States during the presidency of husband Bill Clinton from 1993 to 2001, and First Lady of Arkansas during his governorship from 1979 to 1981 and from 1983 to 1992. Born in Chicago and raised in the suburban town of Park...
04:35
More like Hillary Parklinton if rumors are to be believed
click the link
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
that lady is to young to be hillary clinton.
@Greg Yeah, if you can't figure out a centralized protocol to prevent bad behaviour (B), then you can just write a lightweight tested library to implement the protocol for each language. If by happy coincidence they all support C bindings, that's the way to go :D
Because really the only issue is that there is nothing to prevent one commit in any of the programs from cascading into the entire code-base as an error (and there being minimal debug info).
@Aaron3468 looking at your profile, have you used tensor flow before?
04:45
@Greg No, but it looks a lot like it covers my areas of interest. Thanks for the recommendation!
@Aaron3468 haha, glad it helps you! Im thinking of using it for a different project, was wondering what comments people have on it
@Mikhail Horribly accurate
Looks like a good library. I've often thought about converting a literal AST directly into code because it removes a lot of the ambiguity of a programming language and greatly improves the ability to examine what the code is doing
Rio Grande River - Great River River
04:49
Great Rio Grande River
provided to you by the department of redundancy department
@PatrickM'Bongo PIN Number, ATM Machine, YAML
You forgot RAM memory
No I downloaded more yesterday
Sigmoid shape
(c) Luc
that one makes sense though
04:52
Does it
yes, a shape can look like another shape
so it'd be a sigmoidoid
indeed
is there a limit to this
an ATM machine is where you get your ATMs, too
04:54
I'm pretty sure you want an AbstractATMMachineFactory
So a PIN number is a number denoting a specific PIN?
no that’s ridiculous
I'm pretty sure its a SQL junction table
05:48
Sup guise
So the electric bikeshedding started then
hello all
question
in this, howard says that a vector of 1M elements won't zero initialize its std::chrono::seconds elements
because it's "just like a long long"
can someone explain please?
std::vector doesn't zero-initialize things that are trivially constructible right?
@Mysticial since when? hasn't it always done that?
I've never tried. I've always assumed that resize() calls default constructors.
it value initializes the elements
05:59
Then there's {} initialization - which I believe does zero-initialize PODs. (not sure if the rule applies to all trivially constructible)
unless they changed it in c++11
because they changed resize. they overloaded it so that they can resize a vector without copying the initial element from the "const T&" parameter initializer
If it zero-initialized before, and they stopped doing that, it would break people.
and they use placement-new with "T()" instead, at least i've been assuming that. otherwise it would have been a huge breaking change
Hmm.. good point. I've observed that placement new T() for pods does zero-initialize.
Does std::chrono::seconds define an empty default constructor or something?
@Mysticial they seem to do "seconds() = default;"
06:02
oh
so it applies that "if T is a (possibly cv-qualified) class type without a user-provided or deleted default constructor, then the object is zero-initialized "
Hmm... TIL, there exists std::is_trivially_default_constructible and it's not the same as is_trivially_constructible.
you have checked that without () it does not initialize. but have not checked that with () it does not initialize
That's not reliable since some bullshit compilers (like MSVC) will always zero-initialize as a security measure.
It can be turned off though. But they sneakily enabled it by default on some not-to-recent version of MSVC.
06:09
shall i start a question and let howard clarify?
lol, yeah
@JohannesSchaub-litb ok (I think you need to remove the third "not" though)
@Mysticial perhaps he's talking about "vector" in terms of arrays, not in terms of std::vector?
@rightfold It was just a rehash of his "compilers are databases" talk :(
@JohannesSchaub-litb yep, same as always
@JohannesSchaub-litb I haven’t watched the video and I don’t use VS but ISTR there’s a famous bug where blah() does not always perform value-init on classes there
then if there’s a long long member in a seconds type with defaulted default constructor, well you get the idea :)
where does 'convention over configuration' fit in that picture
Ven
Ven
Hi
If fits in dhh's ass
@LucDanton You know who else have a long long member? /cc @PatrickM'Bongo
06:39
what’s the point if it lasts for seconds
@rightfold you can write your own routine that does that, using e.g. lua_isnumber
also I passed the theory exam!
practice tomorrow
> Why is the new pic so desaturated? It looks like Batman is going to swoop in.
Xeo
Xeo
07:16
@ThePhD ?
Xeo
Xeo
ah, Unreal's assert macros with shitty naming convention
laffo
nothing like Gamedev Quality Code
2
@orlp You mean these pings ? :')
Ven
Ven
:s
07:28
Ven
Back to your cave
@GillBates I now adblock'ed the mp3
@orlp hahahah
Ven
Ven
@GillBates no thanks
batman is too mean to me
Well, as long as it works
@Ven What did badbatman do to you?
Ven
Ven
batbad batthings
07:31
> C++ Macros: A missed opportunity
Not seeing it
Time out?
8-12
unfortunate score
@StackedCrooked technically, you can't. It's pure, undilluted UB. You might have looked at the assembly, though then you didn't really use the placement new at all (you could have looked at the assembly anyways)
Maybe it's the guy on the left checking out the coach
07:34
I think the coach made an off color joke
No.3 got so fed up she printed it on the back of her shirt, then
No.3 was an accident
@sehe if the size is big enough, and the alignment of std::chrono::seconds is a multiple of the alignment of int64_t, I don't believe it's UB
So, technically, a pornpun
@orlp It is IB to type pun and read back as the other type. Depending on whether all types involved are POD...
@sehe no it isn't, it's UB to pointer alias (other than char)
but there are no pointers dereferenced here
07:37
It's basically reinterpret cast here. IB at the very least. You may be right iff all types are POD that it's not UB
@sehe memcpy is also perfectly defined
That's the essential bit, I guess.
I would guess placement new functions the same
(provided size & alignment requirements are satisfied)
@orlp Yes. And that's also not what we're discussing
@orlp I already said that. With the caveats, though. They are not superfluous
Still, I'd just look at the assembly.
@orlp Ah :)
More pings to @orlp
07:39
07:57
That's wrong it's a trema!
Ven
Ven
eh ouï
egh, I think I caught a cold
and I have to go to the uni today
Should've dodged it
because I of course forgot that tomorrow's the uni day
and scheduled the exam for tomorrow
08:12
@JohannesSchaub-litb I'd say that's the case. He either meant array or brainfarted
08:46
@Ven made me laugh
oh amazing
another great government reform, this time to forbid shopping on sundays
@BartekBanachewicz They have done the same shit here but it is in effect only for big malls, not smaller vendors. Completely retarded.
@AndyProwl Well, starting next year, is it not?
@wilx Isn't that just during holidays?
08:58
7-day week is dumb enough
and now this
morons
I thought it only applied to state holidays. If not, I'm in deep shit
@AndyProwl Hmm, I thought it was in effect on weekends as well. I might be wrong though.
Damn. That would be bad news. I mostly shop on week-ends
@AndyProwl You just need to shop in nearest Vietnamese shop. :)
Yeah but they don't have everything :(
Ven
Ven
08:59
user image
6
Xeo
Xeo
We haven't had shopping on Sundays in Germany as long as I remember, except for special "open for business"-Sundays
Ven
Ven
macOs' preview is a great tool, I swear.

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