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9:00 PM
@Mikhail ^^
 
Just do /cc {Name}
 
@Griwes I'm relieved to hear it. I'm still half convinced that it would have been better to delay C++11 by a year (or so) to get concepts into it. Unfortunately, there's no way to unsail that voyage.
 
@milleniumbug I don't understand why the type information isn't sufficient. I assume the implementations are specialized for each type (ie, std::vector)?
maybe I'm not on the same page here
 
they are
 
10 mins ago, by Jerry Coffin
@Mikhail His point is that if you say "logarithmic", it should either happen logarithmically, or else fail to compile at all.
 
9:02 PM
the point is that the caller tells what complexity he's expecting
it may be the same, or lower
 
BUT BUT BUT BUT, the type says the only way to do it, because there is only way to do it for each type
 
Basically, he wants to specify a "you must be this high to ride" bar.
If you can't do it at least as fast as {tag}, then he wants the algorithm to fail.
 
@Mikhail now change the container
 
@milleniumbug If I tell it to do a logarithmic search on a vector, will it just fail, or will it assume I sorted the vector and use the equivalent of lower_bound?
 
Crap, auto&& as a lambda argument type triggers that g++ bug.
Ffff I have to change this.
 
9:05 PM
@JerryCoffin interesting question, but I'd say fail the compilation
 
All this fucking work because I don't have range algorithms or a concept map or UFCS.
RIP.
 
maybe have std::find(std::logarithmic, std::assume_sorted(vec), key) or sth
this fails with more complicated cases and reality
 
@milleniumbug Or we could go with a warped form of dependent types: std::sort(vector.begin(), vector.end()) returns a sorted_vector, and find(sorted_vector... does a binary search. :-)
 
and when you consider there are multiple variables you can calculate complexity from
oooooh boooy
 
Xeo
@JerryCoffin and what does auto v = std::sort(vec); v.push_back(a); find(v, ...) do? :D
 
9:11 PM
@Xeo Sends the compiler into fits that melt down your hard drive, obviously.
 
Ell
@Griwes that doesn't sound right to me
Concept maps allow you to make proofs doesn't it?
Ie, ensure monad laws are satisfied
 
@Ell ...did you just confuse concept maps and axioms?
 
Ell
Idk what axioms are in this context
Nor really what concept maps were supposed to be I guess
 
@Ell No. Concepts (as a whole) had some ideas about axioms, but concept maps were just syntactic mapping.
 
We're talking C++0x concepts, they had axioms pretty well defined. :P
 
Ell
9:13 PM
But if a concept map is just an explicit type class instance, I don't see what's desirable about it
 
@ThePhD That would not make sense...
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah, he says that he is a liberal programmer AND a liberal person. He says there's nothing wrong with being a conservative programmer, but...
 
@Ell Okay. There's two general kinds of typeclasses.
One of them is concept-y in its meaning - just checks if an operation is valid.
Those should have implicit instances and whatnot.
There's also an explicit one, that conveys semantic meaning - concepts with implicit instances literally can't do that, becuase you can't make any meaningful semantic introspection as a compiler.
 
Xeo
@Ell unified interface~
 
9:15 PM
Hence, you really want to have both.
 
user1804599
(->) is the universal interface.
 
Also @Ell there's an example on that old version of the wikipedia page of how std::stack could just be a concept and not a weird templated wrapper.
 
@rightfold Don't mention it. Luckily for you, I think your accomplishments speak for themselves.
 
user1804599
ok
 
Ell
@Griwes I see what you mean now
I thought when you spoke of concept maps you meant inferring semantics
 
9:19 PM
@caps ...but he's just spent the last 5 years telling you how everything he calls "conservative" is not only wrong, but clearly a result of wrong-headed, stupid thinking (or lack of thought, as the case may be).
 
@JerryCoffin Exactly.
 
Ell
And that it would be an implicit instance
But then you were saying explicit and I was confused :4
 
user1804599
what accomplishments?
 
user1804599
all my abandoned projects?
 
user1804599
most of which have been deleted?
 
user1804599
9:20 PM
maybe my Stack Overflow answers
 
@rightfold If at first you don't succeed, eliminate all evidence that you tried.
29
 
yeah not sure why would you delete projects
 
user1804599
@sehe did you receive it?
 
abandoning, sure
but outright deleting?
 
@rightfold now I seent it
 
user1804599
9:23 PM
I updated it in the meantime
 
user1804599
:P
 
... REDO FROM START
PRESS PLAY ON TAPE
 
What do you think? Too snarky?
Yes, it's possible. — Jerry Coffin 1 min ago
 
Ven
@caps sure. I like haskell, perl, c++ and cobol !
 
user1804599
omg COBOL
 
9:27 PM
@sehe I always loved how "redo from start" meant "reenter from somewhere in the in the middle of the input, but almost certainly not the start". :-)
 
Ven
@Mikhail yes, but you might be okay with more than that...
 
I think I maybe got to "press play on tape" once in my life. I wasn't the proud owner of expensive equipment, so I would be the passenger on most any computer I saw
 
Ven
@rightfold i'd say don't mention it
 
user1804599
yeah
 
Ven
Just show you've worked with your "experience"/other gigs part.
 
9:29 PM
@rightfold don't mention it
Mention things that matter
 
user1804599
ok
 
Ven
I's be interested to read it :D.
 
user1804599
@Ven discord
 
This is epic in every possible way
8
 
I haven't been to Discohorse in a while.
 
Ell
9:35 PM
@sehe who leaked this? :P
 
No idea, really
> Fatima von Flammkuchen
Cracking me up
 
user1804599
XD
 
Jul 19 at 20:36, by sehe
@EtiennedeMartel Can we leave discord at discord?
What happened to this?
 
@rightfold That is what I was thinking of.
 
Ven
9:53 PM
Putain des fois, trier les questions intéressantes sur SO c'est tellement hardcore j'ai l'impression d'être dans les aventures de gérard lambert
@AndreasPapadopoulos j'aurais pas aimé le petit prince sur SO, avec ses questions de merde
 
@JerryCoffin I felt like he said some insulting things about "Conservative programmers" but what he said about people who are politically conservative was even more insulting. Are his only friends raging progressives?
 
@EtiennedeMartel You know what happened.
Nothing happened.
Pffft.
 
user406009
In all seriousness, we do need to be careful about the stuff on that discord server.
 
user406009
A lot of it is not politically correct in any sense.
 
@Lalaland Could you pick a more meaningful sentence?
 
user406009
10:04 PM
@caps There is a lot of shit said on there that might look bad to potential employers and/or girlfriends for some of the people on Discord.
 
user406009
People have certainly been fired for less.
 
Ven
Stop taking drugs
 
@caps If I had to guess, it would probably be that he doesn't have any actual friends... :-)
 
Ven
Oh yeah because posting to a public social network with your real name and where everything is public
Is the same as publishing in a small local private discord server with a pseudonym. Great point you have there mate
I'll make sure to invite my recruiter to the lounge's discord then
 
10:07 PM
@Lalaland Man that kind of stuff is so stupid. Stay off the internet, folks.
 
Ven
Yeah do drugs instead
 
4 mins ago, by Ven
Stop taking drugs
Make up your mind, man
 
@Ven I think he does have at least a little bit of a point. Even if you don't intend any of it to be public, somebody might find it. And even if there isn't evidence that would hold up in court, it's pretty easy for a clueless HR person to toss a resume based on little more than rumor or innuendo.
 
@JerryCoffin nods sagely
 
Ven
@caps i would but i did drugs
@JerryCoffin still requires you to disclose your real name at some point
 
10:18 PM
@Ven It just requires your real name to be somehow associated with your username in some way that a snooper could detect.
I doubt most recruiters or HR people are that determined, but it should still make one uneasy IMO.
 
user406009
Nowadays, just a photo is enough of a link
 
user406009
@caps also, you don't just have to worry about current tech and current recruiting strategies. Stuff on the internet lasts forever.
 
@Lalaland True story.
 
@caps Recruiters or HR people, probably not. I can pretty easily imagine, however, somebody deciding to set up a company to help screen applicants by doing background checks on them and such. If that's profitable (probably would be) somebody else is likely to try it too, and it probably escalates quickly into a contest to see who can dig up the most dirt. Truthfully, I'd almost be surprised if something similar doesn't already exist.
 
@JerryCoffin Right.
 
10:32 PM
342
A: What's wrong with comments that explain complex code?

Tulains CórdovaIn layman's terms: There's nothing wrong with the comments per se. What's wrong is writing code that needs that kind of comments. What's wrong is assuming it's OK to write convoluted code as long as you explain it friendly in plain english. Comments don't update themselves automatically when y...

nice answer
 
Want a better compiler? Write a popular library that the compiler fails utterly to compile and wait. @visualc https://github.com/Microsoft/Range-V3-VS2015 #cpp
Arrogant? Yes, maybe a little. True? Hell, yes!
@Lalaland youdontsay.jpeg
@caps Euphemisms are a device that can be used to signal serious intent.
 
> fails utterly
is that english? looks strange
 
@sehe "politically correct" is, to me at least, a rather meaningless phrase absent a political party to define it.
 
@JohanLarsson yes
 
@sehe Or maybe just cheeky? idk, i haven't quite mastered this "English" thing
 
10:45 PM
Inversion. It's a stylistic form.
So, it's a more poetic version for "that the compiler utterly fails to compile"
 
still not sure the utterly adds anything
but i don't know english
 
@JohanLarsson Similar to: "With MSVC to compile this certainly do not attempt" - but less over the top
 
@sehe Many employees at Microsoft working on VC++ have a LARGE chunk of their bugs derived directly from Range-v3.
It's literally one of the things they have on the board to "unblock".
 
Like many keyboard factories owe the sales of keyboards WITH caps-lock keys directly to you :)
@ThePhD ikr. It's still his tweet. I don't think I denied his claim in the slightest
 
@ThePhD Aye, I remember that being mentioned on twitter. I dont remember if it was STL or MalwareMinigun though.
 
10:49 PM
STL IIRC
 
STL, and on reddit both the VC dev manager and STL IIRC.
@sehe What I'm more getting at is he's kind've justified.
Granted, it's been... 2 years, about to be 3? That they've been hammering VC++ with bugs from Range-v3, moreso recently in the last year than earlier.
 
@JohanLarsson It's not the meaning. It's the ... gesture of it, the dramatic curve if you will.
Like many things "If at first you don't succeed" has a more specific ring to it (making "at first" much more important due to its promoted position) than "If you don't succeed at once"
@ThePhD IDGI. You must not have seen what I wrote.
> 'Grand Theft Auto' Fan Site Hacked
So, that makes it Grand Theft Auto Data Theft? Grand.
 
have you stopped answering questions sehe?
Feels like you have been at 200k for a while
can of course be my temporal awareness that is broken
 
@JohanLarsson I intend to coast to 888k without further investments like John did.
 
@JohanLarsson Last answer was 2 days ago.
 
11:02 PM
@JohanLarsson It's slightly unusual, and because of that places extra emphasis on how completely it fails to work with this code.
 
> JONATHAN OBAR: It would take the average user 40 minutes a day to read all of - and that's every day - to read all of the privacy and terms of service policies that we encounter related to the different services that we're using all the time.
 
@sehe Crazy yet believable.
 
@JerryCoffin So it is perfect then.
 
@JerryCoffin on how it completely to work with this code fails // FTFY
So it, then, is perfect
 
11:06 PM
:)
 
> What we did is we went to the extreme, and we included this - a firstborn clause suggesting that if you agreed to these policies that as a form of payment, you'd be giving up a first-born child. And 98 percent of the participants that took the study didn't even notice this particular clause.
Sounds like the kind of agreements that @JerryCoffin would enjoy
 
I have an idea that the customers should make the contracts.
> I want to buy this thing using standard contract 1.a
 
@sehe I only want firstborn if they're female (and no longer actually children).
 
@JohanLarsson the market place would crawl to a stop
 
> standard contract 1.a
 
11:12 PM
I agree that standard contracts are key. Like CC-SA licenses etc.
But the really big corps will never be satisfied with those.
 
agreed it would not work if everyone came with their own bs
 
Facebook, Google, Apple: they're too big to accept the risks in that. Also: they need to have international coverage.
 
@sehe could make them small
and then they would perhaps be happy again
not gonna happen overnight
standard contracts and a bunch of rulings in courts
 
Make business great again
@JohanLarsson That, and a few wars here and there.
 
why do you need wars?
 
11:18 PM
@JohanLarsson Because without them we wouldn't be able to use Java Servelets?
 
> In 2003, John Yoo, then a senior lawyer at the Justice Department, wrote a memo, now declassified, in which he said that “to put out or destroy an eye” could be legal as long as no specific intent to cause the prisoner severe pain could be proved.
Legalese is destroying humanity anyways src
 
@sehe I was writing English, not German or Dutch.
 
@JohanLarsson Because big businesses don't get small out of their own accord
 
if they refuse to sell things
 
@JerryCoffin I thought you were the one hammering on humor before nice things.
 
11:21 PM
@JerryCoffin over my head :)
 
.jar, .war files
 
oh, maybe it went under :)
 
Definitely
@JohanLarsson Don't forget most countries /are/ big corporations, and the right "leaders" will incessantly work to keep them "great again".
 
yea i'm not optimistic since there is no hope
 
@sehe Trump 2016 Make America Great Again
^ not saying this ironically btw
 
11:27 PM
when is the election/vote thing?
 
Too soon
 
and who is in the lead now?
 
@sehe If that was funny, I apologize--I missed it.
 
ok, so basically, they tortured detainees at Guantanamo to the extent where they can't let them go, because they might have received enough training to become proper terrorist during the "detention"
 
@JohanLarsson They both seem to be doing their best to lose, but Trump (predictably) with more success. The real losers will be the entire country though...
 
11:32 PM
@JerryCoffin Things that are over the top are funny. Dare I say, friggin hilarious. Outrageously comical. Uproariously priceless. Gut-bustingly frolicsome. Screamingly jocular. Side-splittingly witty. You know. The works.
@JerryCoffin He practically wrote the book on success!
 
Anyone wanna complain about txti.es/darkrifts so I don't annoy C# again?
Particularly the lower one
 
@JohanLarsson The table labeled "polling data" lists the polls.
 
@sehe He's credited with a dozen or so books, nearly all dedicated to (somebody's view of) success.
 
11:40 PM
I'd report that stolen.
Your funny bone. It's gone.
 
lol
Injects dose of UUr into Jerry Coffin
 
@sehe I never was really funny.
 
You don't fool me.
 
@sehe I'm not trying to.
 
If at first you don't succeed :)
 
11:48 PM
@sehe ...destroy all evidence that you tried.
 
There's the Coffin I know
 
Heads off to Malwr.com to find some sick viruses to look at
 
Suddenly, wilde Flammkuchen
 
@Ven "draw me a sheep and I'll upvote you! he said. [closed as unclear what you're asking]"
 
@Darkrifts Now there's an interesting question: could we dream up something (even smaller/simpler than a virus?) that would infect a virus, so the virus started to die off?
 
11:51 PM
Wait, are you saying make a nanovirus/Microantivirus
Virus²?
 
viruses that fight each other have existed for over a decade
 
@AndreasPapadopoulos aw - well played /cc @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
@JerryCoffin No, because it would need that initial virus, which would mean your system would get infected with something unknown in either case.
 
@Mikhail It would get something, but it would also kill it off to fix it idk
wait, how can .docx/.doc files be malicious?
 
Now I'm getting mixed signals--some saying it's been done, others saying it's impossible. I'm so confoozzled...
 
11:55 PM
Solution: Make it anyway
 
@JerryCoffin In biology, they're working on it (IBM keeps publishing progress about it) - quick find: fastcompany.com/3059782/…
 
@Darkrifts Yes, it can contain VBA
 
wat
Why can .doc/.docx files contain VBA?
 
By design
They can be used for example to validate fields, but can contain fairly complicated programs on their own (often in spreadsheets)
 
Even if not, there's usually buffer overflows to exploit
 
11:56 PM
Well, anyone want a sick nasty virus in .doc format?
 
@Darkrifts Its been done a lot
 
It's been the bane of viruses for decades
 
I know, I just found a "good" one :P
 
@Mikhail That's one possibility, but probably not the only one.
 
@JerryCoffin It's not difficult, however the research effort isn't worthwhile when it's easier to prevent and scan for them
 

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