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12:17 AM
Alice needs to take a chill pill
 
12:32 AM
Good night folks
 
hi
you know what sucks
 
suckers
 
yeah that
but also
I swear every Z170 motherboard dents the processor's IHS
The retention arm is so fucking hard
 
user5378087
Guys, sorry for asking again here, but I believe that I'm almost understanding: is there some relationship with "rvalue references/move semantics" with "copy elision"? I was trying to enforce copies, like the example in the following link, but my compiler was printing the last output.
 
user5378087
154
Q: What are copy elision and return value optimization?

Luchian GrigoreWhat is copy elision? What is (named) return value optimization? What do they imply? In what situations can they occur? What are limitations? If you were referenced to this question, you're probably looking for the introduction. For a technical overview, see the standard reference. See common ...

 
12:41 AM
copy elision existed before move semantics (afaik) so no theyre no related
also, again afaik, move elision is also a thing that exists
 
user5378087
I mean, the problem with a copy generated by calling a function in an assigment is "solved", through some examples that I saw, by moving it. I saw here: thbecker.net/articles/rvalue_references/section_02.html
 
Heeyo
 
1:18 AM
hi
 
1:53 AM
dead dead dead
 
@Nooble Everybody is asleep.
 
:(
 
I am up just because I wanted to see Critical Role live.
 
user406009
@Nooble It's OK. All us cool USA kids are still awake.
 
2:20 AM
@StackedCrooked lol
deer are the worst
there was this one time on Christmas
there was a Christmas party at the local zoo, with a Santa Claus and everything
It's actually an event, where they string lights up around the zoo and you can see all the animals at night and that's why my family went, but the zoo where I grew up is in the middle of the woods
the way out is this tiny road that doubles back on itself about a dozen times because this zoo is also on a mountain
and this deer jumps out of the woods and smashes itself on the car in front of us
it doesn't die immediately, just sits there with a broken leg, and then the door opens and this poor guy gets out, and you could hear his daughter wailing they'd killed one of Santa's reindeer. :(
And then Santa arrives and starts directing traffic
that poor, poor guy
fuck deer, garden eating, daughter traumatizing traffic hazards
 
Rip Santa's reindeer
 
yeah :\ The appearance of Santa to help probably solidified the idea it was one of his deer in her mind
Then again, he was actually a good dude about it, and I think he may have also tried to calm her down and comfort her
 
Lol rip childhood
not as traumatizing as highschool
 
hopefully that included something about how it wasn't his deer but he was going to take care of it anyway, and she was for sure on the nice list for being so scared for it and would you like a candy cane?
"don't worry my deer are immortal"
 
user5378087
2:37 AM
Diablo 3 let's go
 
but I don't play it or own a copy
 
3:17 AM
__has_include is so cool
 
cmake: Makes it easier to compile errors
On the other hand, I can't complain because at least it solves half the dependency problems of trying to compile
 
@Aaron3468 I was thinking about doing some C++ again
And you just reminded me of CMake
Fuck.
 
xD See, I'm not the only one who struggles with the ancient dependency resolution. It's a nice language except that it's built on top of C
 
D3 is fun
Dont have access atm though
 
3:33 AM
don't worry! Modules are coming. You just have to believe in them!
5
this apple is A+
 
God damn CMake
And all of its versions
 
maybe I should have eaten more today
 
Oh god the worse part is relearning it
 
I do believe in mod-ules, I do believe in mod-ules, I do, I do
 
All the troubles I had getting it to work with submodules
 
What was it called in CMake
The downloading feature thing
 
this is apple #2, and I've had 3/4 cup of yogurt, a glass of milk and a granola bar
but pokemon
I'll have another glass of milk
and then more pokemon
 
externalproject_add or something
 
granola bars are like lembas bread they totally count as a meal
 
more like eternalproject_add
2
 
3:37 AM
lol
 
Why can't modules just be a thing already.
 
Because the only way to code C++ is with hope
6
 
for the glory of Satan of course!
hope is a thing with translation units
 
user406009
@Nooble They are. In Rust :P
 
@Lalaland Rust <3
 
3:40 AM
I should learn rust
 
I was definitely surprised that a new language came out that was fast and fun. Except the match/throw syntax
 
user406009
@Aaron3468 "throw" syntax?
 
user406009
There is no "throw" in Rust.
 
I think what's missing from Rust is sfinaefuckery.
Then it'll feel just like home.
 
True, I'm thinking of the error-handling, which has very esoteric syntax I haven't quite figured out yet
 
3:44 AM
Im back back
 
maybe I'll pick up the bad kind of ramen on the way home. It feels like a bad ramen night
gonna have dinner at 1AM and it's gonna be instant ramen for no reason why do I do this to myself
oh well I enjoy it.
 
Well, I'm feeling a bit powerful now that libraries compile. I've got SDL and freeglut and half of ogre3D, so I may as well try building the new version of codelite while I'm at it
 
In retrospect, masochism explains many of my life decisions
like my enjoyment of C++
 
I was just about to say...
 
@jaggedSpire I know that feeling
Something I'm trying to overcome @_@
God I missed VS
 
3:49 AM
You know what I loved about VS?
 
@ReousaAsteron Why do you miss VS
 
I'm waiting for the punchline unless there is none because you loved nothing
 
@Aaron3468 Yeah :P
 
@Nooble Because my PC's cpu melted about last year, I had a shitty laptop that couldn't run it, now that I've borrowed a relative's laptop I can use it again c:
So yeah it's been over a year since I've last used it xd
 
3:54 AM
How did you melt your cpu? Did you kill the fan? Overclocking gone horribly wrong without liquid cooling? death by being thrown into the furnace in a fit of rage?
 
user406009
I've "melted" a GPU before.
 
user406009
The fan got clogged up and I didn't notice.
 
He didn't use a Noctua NH-D15.
 
user406009
Well, I didn't notice until it stopped working.
 
user406009
Hmm, I wonder why my computer refuses to work today
 
3:55 AM
Doesn't it thermal throttle before it destroys itself
YOU AND YOUR DUST PROBLEMS LALA
 
Fan died, no alerts (for some odd reason, I probably turned them off and forgot), extreme multi-tasking and bam, take it off to see what's wrong and find out that the heatsink melted into the cpu and I can't put it back in ofcourse
That was after a few sudden shutdowns, overheating.
 
heatsink melted what
 
How the fuck do you literally melt a CPU?
 
but heatsink is metal
 
They will stop working long before they actually melt.
 
3:57 AM
I'm not sure I can expplain it
 
user406009
(The GPU didn't actually melt. It just stopped working)
 
@Mysticial Ivy Bridge
hehe
:(
 
user406009
@Nooble It was a 8800 GT. The best graphics card ever made. They ran sorta hot.
 
Like, you put thermal-paste between the cpu and that last piece of metal in the heatsink
Lmfao
 
3:58 AM
Yeah but really I don't get how you can actually melt a CPU.
They turn themselves off.
 
It didnt literally melt, just partially
 
Unlike me.
@Lalaland Oh Nab had that.
 
It was working fine, but once I took it off I couldnt seperate the cpu from the fan
 
Poor thing died a few months ago.
 
Therefore I couldn't install it back
 
3:59 AM
Old card.
 
So yeah, I guess some of it melted .-.
 
Your thermal compound dried up. Next time use quality TIMs like mayonnaise.
 
Yeah I figured xD
Next time I'm getting a better cooling system ;-;
Was on a tight budget
 
Mayonnaise stays moist for sooo long. Would recommend
 
No ketchup?
 
4:01 AM
@ReousaAsteron I use the H100i on an overclocked 4790K; works quite well for about $110CAD
 
@Aaron3468 But the NH-D15 is cheaper and quieter and runs cooler :D
 
@Aaron3468 There's that 212 evo i wanna get
 
People just don't like the poop brown color
 
I hear the stock amd WRAITH is good though, gonna have to check that out too
 
@ReousaAsteron I have a couple of those laying around. They're affordable :P
 
4:03 AM
@Aaron3468 I have the H110 on my 5960X. I had some fun finding the right case for it.
 
@Nooble Indeed they are :3
 
I basically maxed out the cooling knowing the chip was gonna pull a bundle.
 
Y'all need some NH-D15s.
 
I got a Hyper 212 evo.
It's fucking huge
 
Haha, I would've but back then I didn't know a whole lot about reading datasheets
 
4:04 AM
@EtiennedeMartel It's pretty small.
Compared to other aftermarket heatsinks.
 
Shit.
You mean
Coolers are supposed to be massive?
 
@Nooble I hate large heat sink coolers.
They radiate the heat directly into the case and they block all the airflow.
 
I might end up getting liquid cooling if the budget allows me to anyway
I mean, I have to pay for uni now and everything so idk @_@
 
@EtiennedeMartel One way or another, more surface area means a cooler computer. I like liquid coolers because they move most of the surface towards the edge of the case
 
My last 4 builds have all had AIO water coolers with the radiator aiming out the back or the top.
 
4:06 AM
Pretty sure I'll need a new pc tho, aint gonna do uni projects on the toaster
 
@ReousaAsteron I do my uni projects on this. If I need a heftier computer, it's at home. I haven't needed my desktop yet
 
@Mysticial Airflow to what though? In my case (hehe), I have two intake fans from the front blowing air through the CPU heatsink and GPU.
Neither block the other.
I'm guessing the motherboard VRMs? It seems like they get adequate airflow...
 
@Nooble If you put the radiator on the side of the case and have it push the air out, the heat from the CPU goes directly out of the case.
The two best places to put the radiator is on the back or the top.
 
@Aaron3468 Does it take the load? O.o
 
@Mysticial Ah I see what you mean.
 
4:11 AM
What load? 90% of the time I'm writing word documents or visiting websites. It compiles fine, though it won't run huge ides like VS. Works fine with CodeLite or Eclipse.
 
I prefer cases without holes on the top since it's more vulnerable to spills. Then I mount the radiator on the back 12cm fan slot.
 
I'm doing some stuff with image recognition, wanna get that gpu acceleration working @_@
 
Benchmarks online show that the NH-D15 runs cooler than most AIOs until you hit the 280mm rads.
 
I loved the H110 but they didn't fit in my dual socket build
 
@Aaron3468 They do require VS in some unis here though (not sure which one im gonna join yet)
 
4:12 AM
Now if its radiating heat to other components, I don't know.
Significantly, I mean.
 
@Mikhail You would need two of them right?
I don't know of any case that can hold two H110s.
 
@Mysticial Many cases have 280mm front intake and top.
 
I want something that looks like an H110 but goes to two CPUs
 
@Mikhail lol, just get two 12cm-sized AIO coolers. Mount one on back and one on top. Or both on top.
 
What I don't like about AIOs is the pump noise.
 
4:15 AM
@Mysticial Well the case also looks weird: newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219033
 
@Mikhail Or two H70s?
 
Does anyone know some good tuts for C# delegates and events, multithreading?
 
@Mikhail When then you're fucked.
 
@Mysticial noooo my precious disks
 
Mysticial don't you have like a million disks.
Where do you put them
 
4:16 AM
Good tutorials for threaded programming and interruptable programming? I don't think they exist tbh
 
@Nooble Yeah, they're on external racks.
 
Ah.
 
@Aaron3468 @__@
 
4:18 AM
^^ Shinon
 
@Mysticial Lol they have their own PSUs :)
 
@Nooble The PSU for the computer is powerful enough to handle that and all 16 drives. But for the sake of compartmentalization, I got separate PSUs for them.
 
@Mikhail Where are they finding $30/TB disks O_O
 
Most of the time I don't use them. So I just power them off. (the switches are in the front)
 
@Nooble "working pulls" , but yeah you also need the computer to drive the disks. I have like 300 TB and typically are around $70 per TB
 
4:21 AM
@Mysticial modularity ftw always.
 
It's actually a while since I've used that drive array.
I've been doing mostly CPU stuff for the past few months. Haven't done anything with disks.
Namely that prefetch experiment.
 
I have a 1 TB WD Blue
 
So delegates are like forward declarations? O.o
But they work as pointers
.-.
 
@Mikhail What on earth do you keep on those drives
 
@Nooble my research work, like videos of developing embryos
 
4:23 AM
Videos definitely explain it
 
@Mikhail Videos of people trying to make babies?
 
I have about .7 TB in videos, music and games and it's nearly time to buy a second HDD
I'd have twice that if I didn't delete shows after watching them to save space
But wow, that's nearly $20,000 to buy that much memory new, Mikhail
 
How much memory?
 
~300TB at ~$70/TB
 
4:28 AM
300TB of memory? As in RAM?
 
@ReousaAsteron Delegates are function pointers.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Is there a reason to use them for anything other than events?
 
When you need a function pointer?
 
300TB RAM would be incredible!
 
You're gonna end up using them a lot whether you like it or not, considering lambdas are anonymous delegates.
 
4:29 AM
I think SGI used to have "Big Brain" machines for that kind of stuff
 
@ReousaAsteron currying doNTimes(3, myFunction)
 
@Aaron3468 I imagine it would be pretty hard to use though. That much memory will certainly be heavily NUMA.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Mhmm @_@ Gotta get used to that stuff
 
Events are thread-safe lists of delegates. When you raise an event, you execute every delegate in it.
 
Currying is an easier way to change the way a function behaves. I find that there are many times I need to wrap many different functions in a for loop or something. Events are really useful too. But pretty much any multi-thread/interruptible processing is difficult to code without race conditions. Takes lots of practice
 
4:34 AM
Um, isn't the solution std::unique_lock?
 
There's a lot of solutions. It's still possible to write bad code, whichever one you use.
 
Yeah I'm working on this thing to get better at multithreading in specific
It's more or less a pixel-bot for some game
 
e.g, never releasing locks, running threads that don't have the lock and stuck spinning, having events that take significantly longer to execute than the main thread
 
I can understand why multicast delegates are useful, less why normal ones are .-.
 
Start doing functional programming stuff, and then you'll realize why functions are useful.
 
4:40 AM
I've done that, I know functions, just never really coded anything big in C#
 
4:54 AM
Welp, I'm off for now :3
I'll cya guys later!
 
5:10 AM
welp I am back from pokemoning
and by the app's distance metric I have now walked 100km
considering one of the places I go to catch pokemon I walk in a 2 minute loop and it measures distance by calculating differences in location once every minute and a half, I suspect I've walked a bit more
waaaait
no I had the egg and the medal mixed in my head
I'll have 100 by tomorrow's end though
 
 
3 hours later…
8:10 AM
@AndreasPapadopoulos I wasn’t kidding when I said they adjusted Guardian last patch
> Dragonhunter became meta after the latest patch. It now has comparable damage to thief, on top of all the support it brings.
 
Okay, so I understand fork() was popular before threads, but why was fork() popular in the first place - why didn't we have threads?
 
9:01 AM
does anybody know when mingw will be supporting c++17?
 
no.
 
nwp
9:33 AM
@Mikhail fork makes processes, not threads. And creating a new process was relevant way before creating threads was.
@ChemiCalChems you can try clang to have pretty much the newest stuff. There are still some things not quite supported, but you might even get VS integration.
 
10:04 AM
@ChemiCalChems It already supports the subset of C++17 that GCC6.1 supports, and there will be more of it by GCC7.
Excpect complete support near GCC8 I guess?
@jaggedSpire Wow, I barely have 40km.
@orlp Classic but still good :)
 
That's a sad story :(
 
10:47 AM
@ThePhD your commit messages are great
@LucDanton good job anet
 
11:20 AM
Time for coffee and cereal bread.
 
11:42 AM
wtf, it appears my program is not calling constructors on a type i defined
 
have you tried uncompiling and compiling it again
 
class Test {
public:
Test() {std::cout << "test" << std::endl;}
}

int main() {
Test test();
}
expected output: test
output: nothing
 
@ChemiCalChems Most vexing, isn't it?
 
yep trivial MVP
 
@Puppy shush, I was trying to make a joke
But since the cat puppy is out of the bag - the line Test test(); declares a function called test, that returns a value of type Test. !@ChemiCalChems
 
11:47 AM
is that so?
really?
 
Yes.
That's why we call it most vexing parse.
 
WHAT THE FUCK
how am i supposed to call constructor then?
 
Welcome to C++ C.
@ChemiCalChems Ehm. Just remove the parens.
Duh.
 
no no, i mean constructors with arguments
 
It works with arguments.
Almost always.
 
11:48 AM
it only occurs for zero arguments, more or less.
 
ok
well, you learn something new everyday
4 years dealing with c++ and that has never fucking happened before
 
lol
 
@ChemiCalChems theres a reason it's called Most Vexing Parse
But really it should be called the Spanish Inquisition because no one expects it
 
@Borgleader lol
also, question
does polymorphism allow me to store pointers of type base class in a vector but access the child classes members?
or am i fucked?
c++ never seizes to amaze me
 
user406009
12:04 PM
@ChemiCalChems What do you mean "access the child classes members"?
 
user406009
If you store pointers to the base, you can call any virtual methods declared on the base.
 
user406009
It doesn't matter what data those virtual methods touch.
 
@Lalaland calling functions not declared in the base class
 
user406009
 
user406009
But it's a tool of last resort.
 
12:06 PM
@Lalaland i do know about that, but i can never understand the usage
let me try to understand it for the thousandth time
 
I just woke up. @_@
Staying up until about 6 am was not a good idea.
Even for live show.
Mornin'.
 
user406009
@ChemiCalChems en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/dynamic_cast has a good example.
 
@ChemiCalChems doing that is very much not polymorphic
 
so what are my options?
 
I'd recommend learning the language you're attempting to use
 
12:12 PM
@Puppy that's what i'm trying to do, dawg
 
user406009
@ChemiCalChems Well, there is boost::variant boost.org/doc/libs/1_61_0/doc/html/variant.html
 
user406009
(Now std::variant if you have a new compiler)
 
user406009
You could also redesign your api.
 
This? Not that I recommend doing that
 
user406009
12:15 PM
@Borgleader The one caveat is that static_cast won't work when you have virtual bases.
 
@Borgleader problem is i don't want to be able to sidecast from NotBase to OtherNotBase
 
Then use boost::variant or something
like i said, yes it can be done, but i dont recommend it
 
@Borgleader so i store std::variants of all my child types right?
seems decent
and then i depend on std::bad_variant_access to see what the type was in the first place right?
 
Well if you use a variant, they dont need a base class
 
12:18 PM
@Borgleader true
 
@ChemiCalChems lol no, you use a visitor, and you have an overload per type in the variant, you let the variant call the right one, play around with boost::variant for a while it will make sense
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes kek, that's basically removing half the english language, want some veal NO, you have to have BEEF.
 
@Borgleader it's no identical to std::variant is it? i'd like to move to the stl when possible
 
i dont think std::variant exists yet?
 
@Mgetz "beef" is also of French origin.
 
12:21 PM
@Borgleader i know
 
then no its not the same, one exists the other doesnt :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I am actually greatly amused
 
Almost one year later, Converting Vegetarians II still sounds like a masterpiece :D
 
i'm fucked anyway, since mingw isn't going to support c++17 for a long time
so i better go boost, yeah
 
@AndreasPapadopoulos ;; Not sure whether to be happy or worried.
 
12:25 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, we borrowed back 'rosbif' so I say we’re even there
 
std::variant will most likely be available in the next version of libc++ and libstdc++ if that's what you're after. If you're lucky, it will be a little less than one year before GCC7 is available through MinGW.
 
Guys as, stackoverflow.com/a/6870295/6518787 suggest that "decltype([]() { foo(); }) f = []() { foo(); };" doesn't work while "auto f = []() { foo(); };" works.....
Can someone explain?
 
They're unique, unsepcified types. You can't expect them to be assignable.
 
Xeo
Lambdas can't appear inside of decltype. Next.
 
@sehe hey sehe
 
12:31 PM
More generally lambdas can't appear in unevaluated context AFAIK.
 
thanks
 
There was a proposal by Louis Dionne to lift that restriction. Not sure what happened to it.
 
@Morwenn it would likely require some deterministic lambda type id based on the lambda. Leading to the question what constitutes "equivalent" lambda types.
 
I don't know. AFAIR allowing lambdas in evaluated contexts in Clang was a matter of deleting a lie of code.
 
GCC
's whole substitution parameters in __PRETTY_FUNCTION__ irk me.
 
12:35 PM
> This proposal was implemented in Clang. The required change is commenting a single line which creates a diagnostic if a lambda-expression is found inside an unevaluated context.
 
@Morwenn That's a technical solution, as you can see in my coliru link you can already get around things, but that doesn't make the types "repeatable" or even equivalent. (Unless clang already happens to have this (based on some AST fingerprint?)
 
std::basic_string<T, char_traits<T>, std::allocator<T> [with T = char] is saaadface.
 
@sehe There was no proposal to have equivalent lambda types.
 
I have to write a heavy-handed parser that basically back-substitutes parameters.
 
@Morwenn Which makes it pretty useless to have the decltype of the lamdba, is my point
 
12:36 PM
Nah, it is useful.
 
How?
 
For example if you need to use ADL to deduce the return type of your function, wrap the ADL call in a lambda and use a decltype of calling the lambda.
There were better examples related to Boost.Hana in the proposal.
The proposal stemed from a need for such a feature. It wasn't just a random proposal to lift a restriction for the sake of it.
 
@Morwenn You might want to read the R1 of that paper.
 
Where is it?
 
Just replacing r0 with r1 should give it to you. :P
 
12:42 PM
Nope.
 
Oh.
 
I guess that you were in the room where it was discussed?
 
Apparently not actually in a mailing yet: github.com/ldionne/wg21/tree/master/pdf
 
@Morwenn oh. Cool example.
So it's not in order to get the declared type of the lamdba at all. It's for indirect purposes. Point well taken
 
@sehe I already had the problem once or twice, and creating full functions just for that was a pain :/
 
12:45 PM
@Morwenn There's an issue of it clashing with Core Issue 1607 that's resolved in r1, I think.
 
@Morwenn Yeah. I can usually skirt this by creating forwarding dispatch overloads and just using an open template with deduced return types for the actual implementation. However, I do recognize the base problem.
Aw maaaaaan. I miss @sbi's contributions here. This is GOLD:
Almost 30 years later and this is still the best summary of the British press. https://t.co/oceXm2LovE
4
 
Time to go to the rehearsal. Later.
 
Ell
have fun
 

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