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2:00 AM
CTR mode is frequently used in many cases that the output isn't run through a Vernam cipher.
 
@GregorMcGregor I don't think I can succinctly explain it
@JerryCoffin fair enough, but in the context of symmetric encryption I'd argue that it'd be obvious
regardless, you'll agree with me that generating N bytes of keystream from a CTR mode cipher is embarrassingly parallel
 
@orlp Can be, but almost never is in reality. To fit your earlier definition, instead of actually counting, you need N parallel adders, and apply the same input key to all of them (which, again, runs into propagation problems so you end up with serialization or a distribution tree that makes it logarithmic instead of purely parallel).
Anyway, time for me to go home. TTYAL.
 
2:19 AM
3 + /* x/* yz /**//**//* /*.*/ /* .. */ */*/ */ 4
-------------------------
Parsing succeeded
wootah
auto const inner_comment_def = *((char_ - "/*") - "*/") >> *(comment > *((char_ - "/*") - "*/"));
auto const comment_def = "/*" > inner_comment > "*/";
my last attempt was really close
/cc @sehe
now i can nop in piece
 
Okay I need help with a PC build. How do I pack the most storage on a single computer. I'm thinking of this motherboard: asrock.com/mb/Intel/X99%20Extreme11 and buying 18x8TB archive drives and software raid... Not sure what the expected throughput would look like.
 
are you building a server?
 
Do you want to optimize for storage or for throughput or both
 
Storage, but I need ~ 100 Megabytes /second continuous write
I got a ~4K budget
 
For a computer or a dedicated storage unit
 
2:26 AM
dedicated storage
 
hope you get a good cooling system with that
 
HDDs don't generate much heat
 
Honestly, I have no clue what I'm doing. I just need to run a few experiments that use like 10TB of data each.
 
I'm trying to think but honestly I've never dealt with that kind of storage for private use
 
by themselves, no they don't
 
2:28 AM
I think you're going to need a mini rack or something
18 drives is a lot
 
Well the Mobo looks like a normal motherboard. Not sure how it would fit in a rack.
 
but once you try to access them, your processor might
 
lol no
processor doesn't do anything but issue I/O requests
@Mikhail I mean I don't know of any case that can accomodate over 10-12 drives
 
That weird. Its just a metal box, why fuck does it cost 400 USD
 
Because it's mostly used by professionals
 
2:34 AM
Enterprice.
 
But yeah I'd go for a mini rack
 
"•Smooth border prevents injury during installation"
 
@GregorMcGregor He said he wanted a lot of storage with a computer, not just a lot of storage. I would assume he needed a computer for some processing.
 
He probably does GPU
 
Yup, the GPU ruins all the fun.
 
2:40 AM
@Mikhail What are you trying to do? That sounds like something I'd want to have.
 
he's solving science
 
It's easy, you just throw the HDDs wherever.
And get long enough SATA and molex connectors.
 
@Mysticial I built a system that images neurons/cells with an interferometer, we take 100 GB slices every 30 minutes. After a few hundred my software automatically determines their behavior. Each experiment takes about 10TB.
 
Fractal XL supports 16 drives
And that's the biggest I could find D:
 
@Mysticial Also we image at ~1400 MB/s to watch how the membranes respond.
 
2:44 AM
The Lian Li supports 19 drives
 
IOW, you want something like my setup, but better:
 
@Mysticial lol very artisanal
ALSO CLEAN YOUR GODDAMN FANS
shudders
 
No fuck you. It will be like my SO notifications.
 
it would look majestic hanging from the ceiling
 
2:46 AM
I hope you don't do the same with your bathroom.
 
Umm, how did you combine PSUs?
 
I don't.
 
that's cheating
 
"All life has a right to grow", said Mysticial, looking at the colonies of mold that had conquered the bathroom and were reaching self-consciousness stage. "Also, fuck you", he added.
 
Each rack of 8 drives is individually powered by the PSU on top.
It also lets me choose when and which tower to turn on.
 
2:48 AM
RAID4/5?
 
Since most the time that I used that machine, I don't use the HDs.
No raid.
16 drives JBOD.
 
More violets I say. Less violence!
 
Each tower is two of these stacked on top of each other: amazon.com/Sans-Digital-HDDRACK5-5-Bay-Organizing/dp/B001LF40KE
 
The PSU on top of each is a $20 400W.
 
2:51 AM
@Mysticial Uh.
 
Each tower has 2 mini-SAS cables (8 SATAs) running into the machine via the water cooling holes in the back.
 
Well, so long as they're reliable.
 
@Nooble I wouldn't run a CPU off of them. But a 8 HDs - no problem.
400W is enough for the simultaneous spin of all the drives.
 
You don't trust RAID?
 
C++ vs. C -- go
 
2:52 AM
@Mikhail I don't need it for my use cases.
 
@Mysticial Okay but why not have 1 bay that you swap in and out?
 
@self ++C.
 
@Mikhail Look at front of the case. There's a 4-HD box there.
It's filled with different drives with different OS's.
And I swap them in and out a lot.
Total there's 20 HDs in that system. I could put more inside, but I don't need to atm.
 
@Mysticial Motherboard?
 
Asus Z87 something.
One of the original Haswell mobos.
Nothing special.
 
2:55 AM
@Borgleader Wait, am I inferring this correctly?!
 
But it has 2 PCI2 x16 slots to put the SAS controllers.
And I use the integrated graphics.
 
why did you use SAS if you didn't use raid?
 
Because it was cheap?
 
So do you put your hentai on the left case and ecchi on the right or the other way around
 
lol
Those controllers are $110 each and they do 2 x SAS (8 HDs). That's much cheaper than the alternatives.
 
2:58 AM
Nice rack.
 
@Mysticial Yeah, although one of the alternatives is to get a board with the right number of ports. For example, newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157535 . Anyways, I'm interested in RAID4/5 performance...
 
Nice try.
@Mikhail That would be better. Though I never intended to use the box like this when I first built it.
If I ever end up building that Skylake 6700K box that I've been wanting to, I'll be doing something similar. Drop-in replacement for the current Haswell box. Keep the racks there, swap out the box and transfer the SAS controllers over.
@Mikhail You can always do software raid on top of any HD setup including JBOD. I can't speak for the performance though.
I've always used these drives individually in parallel. Easily tops 1.5 GB/s sequential bandwidth. And that's with old drives. If you shoved 16 of those 8TB Seagate Archives in there, it'll go over 2GB/s.
 
3:16 AM
@Mysticial Yeah I'm probably going to try mdraid, but as we know achieved performance is different from cursory inspection. For example, my SSDs would never go over ~600MB/s write until I got a real raid card (LSI-megaraid).
 
You definitely need a card that doesn't bottleneck bandwidth.
So stay away from the cheap stuff unless it's a big name like SuperMicro.
 
Can mdraid or the Windows virtual RAID substitute?
 
You can raid anything you want with software raid.
 
but does it go faster?
 
That I don't know.
IIRC I remember testing out a 2 HD RAID0 using Windows software raid. The sequential performance was definitely better than one drive, but far from being 2x the speed of the individual drives.
But that was years ago back in the Vista days.
 
3:21 AM
Yup. I think I got a 70% of the expected performance. The real problem I had was that Intel RST (something different) stopped scaling past ~500 MB/s
 
The only way I got the 2x bandwidth was to keep the drives separate and have two threads access them simultaneously.
 
Or use a real raid controller. I was fortunate enough to have a server mobo so this was integrated.
 
@Mikhail How many drives did you put on it?
 
@Mysticial 4 840 SSDs.
 
And PCIe x-? Or integrated on mobo?
 
3:23 AM
It was integrated.
But it didn't suck, unlike Intel RST
 
Interesting. I've never had problems with integrated HD controllers.
Aside from the Sandy Bridge SATA controller bug.
Which I was one of the unlucky 5% who actually noticed a problem before they were ready for the total recall.
Probably had something to do with the way I was using it... :P
 
> De même, il est rappelé qu'aucun lien hypertexte ne peut renvoyer sur le Site [je censure] sans l'autorisation préalable, expresse et écrite de [bande de cons lol]. A défaut d'autorisation, un tel lien pourra être considéré comme constitutif du délit de contrefaçon.
 
Intel RST is a nightmare. Besides having poor scaling past the 500MB/s range (tested in raid0) it will occasionally mess up some internal settings and one of the constituent drives will be off the array. The only way to fix the problem is to create the array again, despite what appears to be no corruption. A friend of mine who works at Intel says this is a well know problem.
 
ow
 
@LucDanton wtf
 
3:29 AM
@GregorMcGregor how to interwab
 
@LucDanton pls do not arrow-reply to my messages it will be considered as copyright infringement
 
> Lors de la sortie de Lock-Out en 2012, tout le monde s’accordait à dire que le film était un remake déguisé de New-York 1997. A tel point que John Carpenter a réussi à faire condamner Europacorp et Luc Besson pour contrefaçon.
fallait pas mettre l’url dans le film
 
@GregorMcGregor Où est Fleur Pellerin ?
 
3:40 AM
Now I want pizza good job
 
lick his face
 
@LucDanton La Guadeloupe ?
buzz Non !
 
> Un prêtre jugé à Evr[…]
et comment ça se termine
 
> eux pour avoir détourné l’argent de la quête
au hasard
> y pour attouchements sur mineurs
 
et oui, j’ai été agréablement surpris
 
3:49 AM
ça marche aussi
 
tu me fais marcher
 
11 comptes bancaires quand même
 
> C'est la première fois que je lis un article où c'est l'histoire d'un prêtre qui se rempli les bourses au lieu de se les vider.
 
> THAT MONEY WAS RESTING ON MY ACCOUNT
11/11
anet stance on dungeons
> Is there anything Lena can't do?
> Break your heart.
> I worked on the Personal Story quests that involved Tybalt... :)
 
4:24 AM
Tybalt :(
My first Personal Story
But sometimes I wonder what the Anet devs work on
I mean they're several dozens and yet the game improves at a paraplegic snail pace
I'll give them that the content is very high quality, however
And it's so far my favorite MMO (by far!) and I've played quite a number
I will always remember my first BW ;_;
 
@GregorMcGregor Yeah, which means there’s a lot riding on HoT.
it’s 4 zones btw
 
How many square meters
 
dunno, but it’s three vertical levels for the jungle zones—ground, canopy, and I forget the last one, probably underground
 
Does it have a bathroom
 
The entire jungle is your bathroom.
 
@GregorMcGregor t’es fier de ce que t’as fait c’est ça
 
VIEILLARDS ASSASSINES PAR L'EMPLOI
 
4:59 AM
bedtime
night, Lounge
 
@GregorMcGregor The linked-to comments?
 
the thread or screenshot
 
You might enjoy /r/ShitAmericansSay then; although make sure to order by top posts per whatever because it has a lot of low-effort noise, too
 
5:14 AM
oh wow
 
you will never look at pizza the same way again ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 
> - As an American who's visited Denmark, I'm quite jealous of your weed and whores.
> - Are you talking about the Netherlands? Sounds like you visited Amsterdam or something.
> - Dude, I don't know. I was high as tits.
quality
pretty good sub
> In 2014, however, an unexpected event cast the color list in a more favorable light: a new shade. “Rebecca purple,” was introduced to honor the life of Rebecca Meyer, the daughter of Eric Meyer, a respected programmer and CSS writer. Rebecca died of brain cancer at the age of six; the hue (#663399) was chosen to reflect her favorite color. (A few developers opposed the addition, maintaining that a set of standards was no place for an emotional tribute. They were dismissed as curmudgeons.)
@elyse subtle hint
 
5:55 AM
TIL I learnt I work only 35h a week and complain about it
 
@GregorMcGregor WTF. I agree with "A few developers opposed the addition, maintaining that a set of standards was no place for an emotional tribute."
 
Dismissed as curmudgeon
 
@wilx Jealous! We know you dream of a std::wilx namespace at night
 
@Rerito Haha.
 
On a more serious note, yes I also agree with that statement :)
 
6:03 AM
Dismissed as curmudgeons
 
Cumudgeon is?
 
cur·mudg·eon kərˈməjən noun a bad-tempered or surly person.
 
Oh and I see telkitty is back on track
Huehuehue
 
Ell
6:19 AM
I need to quiet down my pc
I agree with it also
but I'm not a cumdragon
 
I’m sure they totally don’t lock up the ship or anything
anyone wants to start a life of piracy on the high seas
 
Oh no they added a colour that has a name of someone in it what a crime
Fucking nerds
 
good thing her favorite color wasn't black though
@LucDanton I want to herd animals and live far away from "civilization"
also cultivate potatoes but I do that already
 
Ell
Do you also cultivate sweet potatoes?
 
That would be you :3
You are my sweet potato
 
Ell
6:28 AM
n'aww <3
 
6:40 AM
@Ell Now that I have a decent microphone, I could dub it in English and put it on YouTube :)
 
time to write some code
 
@fredoverflow was your lecture about problem solving?
 
6:56 AM
@GregorMcGregor stereotyping be fun

telkitty-stop-trolling-please

6 hours ago, 3 minutes total – 29 messages, 7 users, 3 stars

Bookmarked 5 hours ago by sehe

It would be a shame if you missed that. (A little nod of acknowledgement would normally be fine).
 
Does this answer make any sense to you? He kept insisting that my answer made invalid assumptions and eventually answered his own question. I'm not sure what he's up to.
 
@CatPlusPlus I didn't know that cumdragon was a color
@nishantjr reading
 
Cheers
 
> Disclaimer: I asked this question, because I'm a student, but the answers thus far have all been incorrect and demonstrate a lack of research and/or understanding of the research referenced. I've been somewhat frustrated by this, and as a result my edits and comments have been hastily and poorly composed, mostly over smart phone. Please excuse this; I hope I've minimized that in my answer below, and I have learned that I need to be careful, complete, and clear in my comments.
lel. That says a lot. I'm giving him credit for "and I have learned that I need to be careful, complete, and clear in my comments" for now
 
@sehe nods
ACK
 
7:02 AM
RST
 
@sehe Just saw that - seems to have been added in a recent edit. I don't understand why he's even asked the question if he's so convinced that he is right.
 
@edition yes
 
@nishantjr yeah. I'm not even reaching his answer for now. I'm a slow reader
 
morning
 
sup tony
 
Ell
7:13 AM
Mornin'
 
@ElimGarak I'm tired :(
 
@sehe, thanks for the comments. Was wondering if I was being unreceptive to valid points.
 
@nishantjr I do think his answer has merit. However, I think it's talking about slightly different things than he does in the question AFAICT. And I'm trying to think of cases where the overhead would not be optimized away.
Brain is still a bit foggy (morning coffee being imbibed as we speak)
 
@sehe Where would the overhead be? From what I understand, delegating constructors are completely isomorphic to constructors with init() functions (since you're not allowed to initialize additional members in the initializer list.)
 
isomorphic C++
 
7:23 AM
@nishantjr There's something to be said for the added exception semantics. However, the idea that copies would be created is preposterous, IYAM, and I did read that part into his question too, like you.
Interestingly his own answer seems to ignore that point, so maybe he worded the question poorly
 
Hi, guys. I'm having trouble with my Form in c++. The form crashes because of my while loop. The while loop is needed for checking the output it receives from an external device. it is actually a log application which continuously prints the data it receives from the device. I've read that 1 solution is to use multithreading. Does anyone can give other solutions than multithreading because i'm having trouble in implementing it.
 
@sehe Oh wait. When an exception is thrown in init(), the destructor will not be called. Where if that happens in the delegating contructor's body it would. But that's not anything in the ballpark of what he's talking about.
 
Well, he is talking about it (at lenght, and with surplus interpunction!) in his answer.
More than a little confusing, yes
 
user1804599
Good morning, friends.
 
user1804599
@Ell dragon dildo
 
old
 
@sehe Lingxi's answer covered it nicely
 
@TonyTheLion btw steve jobs died
 
@rocky You'll probably get answers if you ask your question on stackoverflow
 
@nishantjr I thiiiiink he basically changed his question here:
> Clarifying the rest: the implementation may just write on the same stack address (no ctors required, that was a blunder) ...
It's also confusingly worded, but I can't think of something else it could mean than "ok, the subobjects can be in-place constructed, no copying ("ctors"? in the comment)"
@GregorMcGregor Bjarne is a bastard for killing Steve
 
7:33 AM
Ok I'm sorry I posted something that is a day old :(
 
Ell
time for lectures
 
That sentence has me completely at sea. Isn't "writing on the same stack address" equivalent to no copies? You can't copy to the same address block.
 
Ell
bye all :)
 
bye ell :)
 
user1804599
7:34 AM
nice
 
user1804599
if (...)
{ ... }
break;
if else (...)
{ ... }
break;
if else (...)
{ ... }
 
user1804599
I've seen a newbie do this in JavaScript.
 
> warning you are writing C, do you really wish to sell your soul to the devil?
 
user1804599
Maybe you should warn about it too.
 
@Elyse if else is a compile-time error. Did you mean else if instead?
@TonyTheLion The devil pays well, so yes.
 
7:35 AM
@Elyse doesn't count as "common beginner mistake". That's just complete magical thinking
 
@fredoverflow :)
 
@nishantjr Hence why I think that's where he changed the question.
 
@sehe woah I missed that
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow malloc without free or NULL check.
 
@sehe AC/DC++ - Stroustrupstruck
@Elyse Is malloc without free detectable at compile-time?
 
7:37 AM
As always, in some cases yes.
 
user1804599
Sometimes.
 
user1804599
You have to do escape analysis.
 
I was about to write that. Could be an interesting exercise.
 
Always in rust no?
 
user1804599
If the pointer doesn't escape, and isn't passed to free, then warn.
 
7:38 AM
Oh wait, I haven't implemented heap memory yet :)
 
@fredoverflow I think the compiler can even eliminate some malloc/free combos IIRC
19
Q: What improvements does GCC's `__builtin_malloc()` provide over plain `malloc()`?

Michael BurrI have recently been made aware of GCC's built-in functions for some of the C library's memory management functions, specifically __builtin_malloc() and related built-ins (see https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Other-Builtins.html). Upon learning about __builtin_malloc(), I was wondering how it ...

 
user1804599
@JohanLarsson Rust automatically calls free.
 
user1804599
@sehe LLVM does that.
 
I suggested to the rust team that they should rename it to FeO
 
user1804599
LLVM special-cases malloc and free, which is really shitty, as you can't get the behavior for your own functions.
 
7:40 AM
FexOx is too long
 
@Elyse See.
Uses the same kind of analysis
 
@sehe Interesting.
 
@Elyse A bit childish. Person gives a child candy. Other child: "that's not a nice person!" (he doesn't give everyone candy)
 
@ElimGarak Wait do you want me to believe you survived the event without a heart attack? :D
 
You should never accept candy from strangers.
 
7:43 AM
@thecosh can you remind me on Sunday?
@georgeb3dr Textbook ad hominem fallacy: trying to devalue criticism by devaluing the critic.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes technically there is nothing stopping me from doing so...
 
@sehe I recently did small tests what compilers do to new int; (not used result) - Clang optimizes it out, but GCC generates call to _Znwm
 
@StackedCrooked why? it's free!
 
Can't be optimized without lto
 
> Outspoken gamemaker since 1990, co-founded 3D Realms / Apogee. Made Duke Nukem 3D and a bunch more. Serial Truth Bomber.
"Outspoken" aka "loud mouthed dick"
 
7:46 AM
$ echo _Znwm | c++filt
operator new(unsigned long)
@EvgenyPanasyuk suspicion confirmed
 
    try
    {
        _worker_thread.join();
    }
    catch (...) //Dont crash if thread not joinable
    {}
why not just call .joinable() ? D:
 
inb4 he frets the threat of a std::thread data race
@EvgenyPanasyuk taking forever to load o.O /cc @StackedCrooked
 
@sehe oh, so it's not just me
 
@GregorMcGregor but what if the thread is joinable when you call joinable(), but becomes unjoinable right after?
 
7:49 AM
Why would it
 
time to pump more some money towards coliru
 
because it may terminate
 
@GregorMcGregor evil wankery vOv
 
@GregorMcGregor FTR, I was joking
 
AFAIR if the the thread terminates, the wrapper std::thread becomes unjoinable
 
7:50 AM
@AndyProwl Would still be joinable
 
@sehe Yes my reply was for Andy :p
 
@AndyProwl nope
 
so when is a thread unjoinable
 
Sorry to create confusion, Andy
 
7:50 AM
When it never started or is detached
 
user1804599
Why is join not idempotent?
 
@AndyProwl if it's detached (or never started indeed)
hehe
 
user1804599
I don't like thread handles anyway.
 
interesting
 
7:51 AM
@Elyse If I want to detect reading from uninitialized variable at compile-time, what catchphrase am I looking for, data flow analysis or something?
 
user1804599
Detach all threads and use queues for communication.
 
@Elyse I prefer using floss
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow yeah I think so.
 
@thecoshman dental floss?
 
@sehe now I get why you wrote "data race" instead of "race condition"
 
user1804599
7:52 AM
@fredoverflow Look up the rules of C# or Java.
 
It's from some library's code
 
@fredoverflow no, it's a new thing, look it up bro
 
@Elyse ah, "definite assignment", good idea
 
@AndyProwl it's possible indeed; std::thread is not "thread safe" :)
 
wait though
 
7:53 AM
I'm pretty sure though that "definite assignment" forbids some obscure programs that would be valid C. But who cares.
 
so a thread which has already been joined once is still joinable?
 
@AndyProwl is that a predicated wait
 
@fredoverflow Fast Light Object Status Streams, floss, it's a library for sort of Erlang like process with really easy communication of data between 'threads'
 
user1804599
@AndyProwl Would be silly if you couldn't do concurrent joins.
 
7:53 AM
That name is a bit janky sure, but it's a great library
 
user1804599
lolc++
 
aren't @sehe's and @elyse's answers the opposite of each other?
 
@Elyse why would that be silly? Use synchronization mechanisms for synchronization
@AndyProwl yes. Therefore I linked the source. See "postcondition"
 
user1804599
Yeah indeed, don't use join at all.
 
user1804599
It's stupid.
 
7:54 AM
@Elyse And don't spread confusion about the stuff you don't use :)
@Elyse You know what :)
 
user1804599
@AndyProwl Mine wasn't an answer but an opinion.
 
If you don't join a joinable thread it's an error
 
ok so Gregor's code still makes sense
 
It's not my code
 
yeah, well
the code you posted
 
7:55 AM
I just don't get why the try-catch instead of a .joinable
 
@AndyProwl I will not accept association with ANY CODE
 
@GregorMcGregor because what if another thread joins after that thread calls joinable(), but before it calls join()
 
@GregorMcGregor what if another thread joins it first?
 
there's an implicit race condition
 
7:56 AM
...that just means you need to synchronize.
Or, y'know, don't share thread handles?
 
@Griwes or organise your threads better so you don't have to worry about such things
 
@AndyProwl That's another issue /cc @thecoshman
 
yeah so we could even get to "don't use raw threads at all"
that's not the point
 
No, that's just plain synchronisation issue
 
if each thread is known about by one other thread, iow if each thread is uniquely owned, then joins as safe
 
7:57 AM
Shared things need to be synchronised
Thread handles are not special
 
And not sharing is easier than sharing
... except when sharing make problems easier
 
user1804599
@GregorMcGregor because join already implements the check, and using an if statement would hence be code duplication.
 
@Elyse ... it's a precondition that the thread must be joinable
try/catch seems like the wrong tool for the job really
 
user1804599
Same reason you use try with at instead of if with .size().
 
@GregorMcGregor yeah but "precondition" in the Standard does not mean "narrow contract"
 

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