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Ell
Ell
10:01
hi guys
1 hour ago, by Johannes Schaub - litb
guys!
you bunch of sexists
Ell
Ell
:L whoopsie
@sehe there is no girls in internetz, you know
Ell
Ell
I wish it wasn't so :'(
do anyone of you know, or are any of you female programmers?
@Ell I'm not
Ell
Ell
10:15
I know my piano teacher is a vb.net programmer but she is the only female programmer I know :L
@Ell I know several
Ell
Ell
@MooingDuck you are a professional, no?
@sehe I log in at the opposite time of day as normal, and all the same people are here? Wierd
@Ell yeah.
Ell
Ell
@Potatoswatter really?
Ell
Ell
10:18
coooool
I am in highschool, programming isnt exactly the bees knees >.<
To each his or her own.
@Ell my first 2 years of college, there were 20 people in my CS classes, 2 girls. My final 2 years was 1 girl out of 12 of us.
In my office we have 3 female programmers, out of about 30.
Ell
Ell
:/
which gives us an average ratio of ~1/10
which is a lot higher than some people seem to expect
I think the obsessive, meticulous nature of programming drives away the kind of girls who are attracted to intellectual work.
10:20
30 is not representative set
Programming is like cooking or textiles, but using your brain. Somewhat contradictory for a feminist.
@Abyx technically that's a set of 50. You're right that it's not representative, but it's better than making numbers up.
@Potatoswatter not sure I'd agree with that analogy, it's a little loose
@MooingDuck I'm just trying to come up with a theory to fit the data… girls make up a larger percentage in pure science or math, or even other engineering disciplines.
@Potatoswatter I'd go with social stigma, since I've seen numbers to back that up.
I'd say it's mostly social
for example, programming is rarely taught in mandatory education, so unlike other disciplines, they get little exposure to it
10:23
What, because programmers are nerdier than pure mathematicians? I beg to differ with that.
Ell
Ell
programmer is the definition of nerd
I think it's mostly due to the low exposure in mainstream education
@DeadMG The same applies to boys. Some people just decide to write a program at some point. My sisters both learned the interactive HyperCard system relatively young, got the basics of programming, and lost interest.
not necessarily
if you say "In the 1950s there was a serious gender imbalance in all disciplines", for example
then you might say "Exposure to all genders equally in mainstream education redressed this problem"
but those disciplines which didn't receive that "cure", so to speak, still exhibit the "symptom"
Well, I'm saying that the balance is further off in programming than in pure math or mechanical engineering.
10:26
@Potatoswatter I saw a study that showed that for girls and boys learning to program, that their skill depended almost entirely on how well they expected they would be. But the girls all believed they were bad at programming, and so did poorly. The ones who believed they could do it, did great.
I don't have statistics, so I could be wrong about that.
Ell
Ell
@MooingDuck really?
@MooingDuck My sisters were fine. They built up ever larger structures and made it work as long as they were interested. But the interest didn't last.
They have no confidence issues. They just found other things they like.
that's probably just a relatively simple "one example does not a trend set"
@Ell that doesn't clarify "why does this apply to programming and not other things", but it shows it's probably a social thing.
Ell
Ell
10:27
yeah
One got her PhD in astrophysics from MIT, so really, no lack of intellectual confidence there.
She does write shell scripts, but she's not a programmer.
@Potatoswatter how good do you think you would do at astrophysics compared to computers?
I don't think I'd be the same at those
@MooingDuck I think I would do fine. I'm pretty sure she knows she'd make a fine programmer. As I said, to each his own.
@Potatoswatter it dawns on me my arguments are circular and have holes. I shouldn't debate at four am
I can barely type anyway
Good night :)
10:30
@Potatoswatter I woke up and can't sleep and I don't know why :/ Work tomorrow will be unhappy
@MooingDuck Hmmm… good luck. When I get insomnia, which is most of the time, I just try to chill out as best as possible. B-)
@Potatoswatter I'm proposing in three weeks and my roommate's GF and I had a... "falling out" this morning
@MooingDuck just go back to bed. If you don't sleep, you'll rest (like your Grandma used to say)
@sehe I am in bed :D
@MooingDuck Hmm, 4 am may be too late for a glass of wine…
10:35
@Potatoswatter I hate wine. And most alcohol. They all taste terrible.
@MooingDuck ... I'm absolutely confused what to make of that
Well… take it easy! I'm heading home.
Oh it's a quarrel. But it was your roommate's GF, not your own GF
@sehe (1) I'm proposing to my GF in three weeks. (2) My roommate's GF and I had a heated argument this morning, and we pretty much hate each other now.
@MooingDuck Ah… wines have such variety… some are like soda and some are like meat. Many don't taste like alcohol.
I used to drink a lot of wine for free at tastings ;)
10:36
@MooingDuck Are you sure you didn't hate the argument? Anyways, I wasn't there, of course
Haha. I'm sure everyone will get over it.
Good night!
you're proposing to your GF and you don't already live with her?
Guys, you're not helping.
@DeadMG good point
10:37
lols
I'll shut the fuck up now :P
@DeadMG no. There's still a lot of people who think of that as a major no-no in America. In this case, my parents :/
@MooingDuck :)
you let your parents dictate your life?
I'd shoot mine if they tried anything like that
@DeadMG Not dictate. Just influence?
I don't see the difference
either you make a choice, or someone else makes it for you, and when they make it for you when you'd rather make it yourself then that is dictation
10:39
@DeadMG yes I do. (1) I want them to respect me (2) They have serious money. (3) On the weekends I live at her place but they don't know that.
@MooingDuck I can see what you mean, but indeed it sounds surprising to me to be proposing while you are still 'under the umbrella' so to speak.
Ah well, cultural differences :)
I hope your parents didn't go to a match-maker for your GF
@sehe oh no. friend of a friend. But they like her
@MooingDuck Now you're starting to make a little bit of sense :)
@DeadMG There's also compromise.
@sehe My parents try to run my life, so I moved 1900 miles away. That keeps them out of things I want them out of.
compromise is between the people who actually have a stake in the thing you're compromising about
10:42
@DeadMG actually, I agree to that.
you can't compromise with someone about something when it's none of their business in the first place
but then
my parents would not expect to be able to significantly influence my life, I guess
why does iTunes take forever to update? I forgot that was running
iTunes is a piece of crap
@DeadMG my mother attempts to run the life of everyone she meets. She's just pushy/overly helpful.
@MooingDuck does it have any other features than the auto-updater? I don't think I ever saw another window of iTunes
@MooingDuck That usually results in people who meet very many people for relatively short periods of time
10:46
@MooingDuck My parents can hardly get me to clean my bedroom, and I'm 21 :P
@sehe I was using the manual installer. It takes easily 10 minutes
@sehe she used to run the marketing department of a sizable bank, and never lost that mindset.
hmmm
why does the Direct3D Debug Runtime anti-alias, and the Retail Runtime won't?
Hum
since the echo on Saturday was so meagre, I’ll ask my question again:
yesterday, by Konrad Rudolph
Quickpoll®: How do you guys unit test for compile-time assertions that should fail
yesterday, by Konrad Rudolph
for instance, I have a method that shouldn’t be usable with certain template argument types and I want to have a unit test ensuring that this restriction correctly prevents compilation
wimp.com/awarenesstest Inattentional Blindness is fascinating
@MooingDuck Seen it a few times. It's hilarious :D
10:55
im not too aware of the rep system on stackoverflow but shouldnt i get a upvote if the OP's problem is solved?
@Yohann no, you get a checkmark, it's worth 2.5 upvotes
0
A: multiple Onload functions not working in Chrome and Safari

Tinkerbelcommented: @Yohann-- Thank you so much. Its working now

@MooingDuck i wish i got that...lol
the OP's fail
@KonradRudolph I asked this before. Wasn't my best worded question though.
One reply posts a link to "Negative assertions" in the concepts proposal.
@KonradRudolph Maybe you can create an enable_if overload declaration without providing a definition. EDIT: Nah, won't help in your situation.
Yup, doesn’t cut it for my code
My current solution uses a shell script which compiles the relevant code and checks for errors
11:02
@KonradRudolph let me know if you come up with a robust way to do it!
it actually works relatively well but it requires extra toooling
@jalf Just for reference, this is my current approach:
gist: Unit test harness for failed compile-time assertions, 2012-03-31 21:03:37Z
#!/bin/bash
set -e
set -u

# This script runs assertions that should fail at compile-time.
# This precludes the use of a conventional test runner. Instead, we build a
# harness and capture whether specific test cases compile successfully or
# not.

# Some preliminary definitions.

BIN_NAME=failed_asserts_test_harness
SOURCE_NAME=$BIN_NAME.cpp
PREFIX='// Put any includes etc. here.
int main() {'
SUFFIX='}'

buildandrun() {
    echo "$PREFIX$1$SUFFIX" > $SOURCE_NAME;
    make $BIN_NAME > /dev/null 2>&1 && ./$BIN_NAME;
    RESULT=$?;
    rm -f $BIN_NAME $SOURCE_NAME;
    return $RESULT;
}

# First, check that the test harness actually compiles fine.

if ! buildandrun 'int test_harness_check();'; then
    echo 'FATAL ERROR: Test harness not working.';
    exit 1;
fi

# The actual test cases.

TESTS=(
    "int* px = 1;"
)

# The test runner.

for TEST in ${TESTS[*]}; do
    if buildandrun "$TEST"; then
        echo Test '`'$TEST'`' compiled, but shouldn"'"t.
        exit 2;
    fi
done

echo "[Testing completed. All ${#TESTS[*]} test cases passed]"
whoah, giant wall'o'text
@DeadMG Sorry, didn’t realise that gists would be displayed in full
(chat bug?)
Perhaps this chat needs a "fold" button.
I think the chat oneboxes them, which it really shouldn't
11:04
@StackedCrooked … or simply a maximum height and some scroll bars
@KonradRudolph It already has a maximum height I think.
sbi
sbi
@KonradRudolph Oneboxing actually is a feature. OTOH, the fact that it creates such a big onebox is, IMO, a bug.
@sbi “oneboxing”? But yes, the box is too big, that’s my point ;)
sbi
sbi
@StackedCrooked That's a good idea. When I'm sick of this chat, I could just fold the whole damn thing!
ah, yes … it’s 600px … they should reduce it by half
sbi
sbi
11:06
@KonradRudolph File a bug at meta.
@KonradRudolph when chat "embeds" stuff, it's oneboxing. Questions, comments, answers, other chat posts, wikipedia, some other stuff
sbi
sbi
@MooingDuck Wait!? Oneboxing now works with comments, too?
7
A: QR scanner that doesn't want to access my contact list

sbicommented: @LarryGritz: I wholeheartedly agree. Why do I have to either slavishly follow some app writer's whim on what they want to access, or abstain from installing the app altogether? As long as I'm content with a QR reader not being able to exchange contact infos, I could use any QR reader if I only could tell the system to deny it access to my contact list. As it is, I either have to find one whose writer voluntarily excluded that feature or I have to voluntarily surrender my private data.

Wow!
That's pretty nice.
0
Q: Chat oneboxes too big

Konrad RudolphCase in point: gist in C++ chat. It fills the whole screen. Or, as DeadMG puts it: whoah, giant wall'o'text I suggest reducing the max-height by half, i.e. 300px. That should be enough.

@sbi it was "implemented" about a week ago, and "fixed so it actually does something" a few days later, if I recall
You should mention what you typed in the box, and what site it expanded from
@sbi yep the newest and fanglest
sbi
sbi
11:10
@MooingDuck Ah, thanks for pointing it out! That's a feature that had a lot of demand behind it.
oh, github
@sbi oh wait, you didn't know? :o
I was wondering why you all described such a contrived way of oneboxing comments the other day
when I didn't get the part about the poster's name linking to the comment
sbi
sbi
@jalf I am sure this didn't work the last time I described how I do it.
I've been oneboxing comments for a while now
ah well
@jalf for aaaaages
11:14
Millenia!
aeons
@jalf I think that Ages are generally considered to last longer than millenia
Not the right link
they're 12,000 years
The synoptic table of the principal old world prehistoric cultures gives a rough picture of the relationships between the various principal cultures of prehistory outside the Americas, Antarctica, Australia and Oceania. It also serves as an index of the broad features of that prehistory to be followed through links to articles. Table {| class="wikitable" border=0 cellpadding="8" cellspacing="0" align="center" |- bgcolor=#bbbdff | colspan=8 | The Principal prehistoric cultures of the Old World |- bgcolor=#bbfbff ! !colspan=2| Prehistoric Europe !colspan=2| Prehistoric Africa !colspan...
well, depends on your definition, as the 12k super-cycle in the Earth's rotation, or Ages as in Bronze Age, etc
11:24
@sehe I see
I stand corrected
:) I'm sure you thought I was using 'aaaaages' in the colloquial sense
Which, I'll be happy to admit, I did
I was going to say aeons anyway, but then I couldn't remember the spelling
@DeadMG I can't find anything to back that. Closest I find is 2,100 or 26,000 for an astrological age
@hi all
anybody know nokia development please help me
eh, maybe my memory's a little of
but 26k sounds fine to me
@HelpMeToHelpYou Refer to room topic.
11:34
@HelpMeToHelpYou Funny, your screen name should be truncated like that
@sehe win
We're absolutely fine and will help you to hel
@HelpMeToHelpYou What do you mean by nokia development?
Nokia is a company. Developing companies is rather different from developing software. And they have three different platforms which you can develop against. "Nokia development" means nothing
-5
Q: Algorithm to get percentage from given number in a for loop, Example: given 20: 1 = 5%, 2 = 10%, 3 = 15%

Rohitcommented: Sure it does! Some one is still having fun after April fool

heh. something tells me this fool is not related to april
man, I have a srs problem
have a burning desire to purchase 999999kg of sugar and fat
11:49
@DeadMG what's serious? Give your money to the poor, problem gone
@DeadMG A bit more serious, are you a binge eater (is that a phrase?)
yes it is a phrase, and not really
the problem is that it's way too frequent :(
can you wise guys take a look a my source that should (but doesn't work) pastebin.com/embed_js.php?i=S76d6F8k
@DeadMG In my experience it helps if there's someone you can let them know you're trying to stop.
Its openssl over cpp
voting to close as not a real question
11:52
@user1220811 I recognize the openssl. I don't see any C++
I told a coworker I intended to stop eating candy every afternoon (I started the habit of emptying a small bag of candy each afternoon).
yeah
Soon enough, with a few funny looks, I started to forget about it. It is now not a problem anymore
the problem is that I don't really have any regular social contacts right now :P
@DeadMG I think you're hitting a central theme there. People thrive on live contact.
11:53
harhar
extroverts thrive on live contact
a heavy introvert like myself is much happier alone
I know that too, because I used to work from home some 80% of the time for a few years (2003-2005 or thereabouts)
@DeadMG I can deny that. Find yourself good friends who 'let you be' and appreciate what you do even though you retreat (often)
That's what my workplace is like at the moment. Pretty much everyone knows not to ask me if I join them for lunch. And everyone knows they shouldn't expect to interrupt me any time of the day
But I sure enjoy the opportunity to vent (harhar, that should win you over) and occasional distraction when I grow too tired
unfortunately, I doubt it would solve this specific issue
even as I stand in the shop buying the stuff, I know I shouldn't
@DeadMG Usually. I recognize that. However, it's kind of hard to maintain the balance if there's no-one around.
especially since it physically makes me sick these days, it's truly impressive that I still can't stop
It's easier to push people away, if there are people in the first place :)
I wouldn't be surprised if it did help.
A lot. On a whim, I'd say you may be rationalizing your resistence to change (pure conjecture) or unconciously lending belief to 'my problem can't be solved' type of myth, which is sooo common in personal growth thingies
12:00
Ok I am stripping the ssl from my sockets. Anyone have any suggestions on securing networking with an MMORPG? Should I really care about SSL?
Those two are universal reflexes. Been There, Done That.
uh, I'm not sure what you're reading here, but the entire point of what I've been saying is that it's an irrational problem :P
@user1220811 you can make SSL-like protocol by yourself
@user1220811 Any HMAC scheme should do. Of course, this doesn't prevent people from sniffing passwords and stuff, but you could make each session authenticate with a new 'session-specific' key and the 'replay' type of attack is gone too.
@DeadMG Yup that sums up my point too
I mean, at the most fundamental level, I'm pretty sure that any rational cause would evaporate at the "makes me sick" point
12:03
@user1220811 Why did you remove TLS?
Simple thing: you are always bigger than the problems you are having. Having irrational doesn't make it harder to deal with, just harder to reason about, I think.
I got tls working with Cpp sockets but when I introduce BIOs the application doesn't open the port
@sehe harder to reason about is harder to deal with, since I can't reason an appropriate solution.
@DeadMG Oh yes you can. You and I just did. Saying that you "don't see how it would help" doesn't mean it won't help.
uh, as far as I can see, you have no more evidence that it is appropriate than I have that it isn't appropriate
12:14
@DeadMG Well, as you said yourself, it's probably not about evidence. Besides, I am speaking from experience, of which I might have a bit more (although not nearly enough... I'm still failing at self-control regarding sleeping patterns)
I like to think that I keep fairly up to date about these things, and all of the Science™ I've seen suggests that the root causes are physical, not mental
Basically, you have to decide whether you want to know how it works, why it happens, and hope that somehow you'll change it by doing that. It's basically psycho analysis. I tried it.
After some highly motivated months of trying that, I lost the energy. And I decided to change to 'just try starting over' and see what happens. Basically, that's the behavoural school of thought/treatment.
I already know some of that
it's a gene which can be switched on by poor nutrition in the womb, or stress, which causes dramatic changes in brain chemistry, manifesting in obesity
Believe me: I had big trouble just accepting 'behavorial therapy': I had to take things on authority (my first shrink wrote that in a summary: "I think you may have authority issues"; he may be on to something there :)) and my brain couldn't explain stuff. I hate that. Still do
hey, I didn't participate in the Sciience™ papers, so I'm fairly sure that any psychological issues I may or may not have cannot affect their outcome :P
12:20
@DeadMG Could be. Talk to a doctor. If that is a factor with you, it can probably be diagnosed. Perhaps there are measures that would apply and help you avoid health problems
yeah
I think I've decided that getting some real medical attention is going to be my only recourse
@DeadMG It is a good recourse. However, be prepared to still take responsibility in case the doctors fail to find a treatable cause/factor
yeah
but in the meantime, it's time for cookies
@DeadMG ... Enjoy them. (Seriously, don't just eat them, but enjoy them. At the very least it will take more time)
And you're killing me: I'm trying to keep my fingers of the food that I bought as make-shift dinner. I know I'll be hungry later. I'm going to try to not eat everything immediately this time
(On mondays I have changed my schedule to work late and have my steady piano gig immediately, to reduce commute times. This makes me have 'dinner' at lunch time and buy a bunch of loafs/apple and a nuts bar for later/underway).
anybody using qt creator 2.5 beta here yet?
12:59
My computer is just blinking a little white cursor in the top left and nothing else at all not even POSTing :'(
@KianMayne I find your presence here impressive in that case
Pre-POST network access?
and web browser
13:37
@DeadMG Lynx running right out of PROM
Hi I have a question somewhat similar to a question I asked before. If I encrypt the login process (username, password) does it really matter if I leave the rest of the network traffic exposed (simple tcp socket)
I am dealing with an MMORPG
@DeadMG I find it unremarkable
@user1220811 Yes, the session information is still available - someone could hijack it. Although what you're doing is on par with facebook security, so there's that I guess.
@CollinHockey tyvm for the responce
facebook doesn't use ssl? I always though they did
I think I'm going to eat a whole package of bacon for breakfast
I can't stop eating it
13:48
They do for the login, but not for the rest of the session traffic, which is why this works: codebutler.com/firesheep
@CollinHockey Facebook at least have an Always HTTPS option
@KianMayne Didn't realize they'd added that
@user1220811 it's not the issue you should care about at earlier stages of project
So... I should not care about it at all?
13:51
without encryption, it's easy to create a bot or other cheater tool
@Abyx I disagree - security is very difficult to bolt on later. If you design your networking code with security in mind, it's much easier
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh hello. I discovered today that GCC can't deal with all forms of template<typename T, EnableIf<foo<T>> = {}> ....
@Abyx No it's not
@KillianDS no, it is.
almost all bots/cheating tools operate way before networking
13:52
I was just trying to convince myself it really doesn't matter as long as the login info is protected
@KillianDS maybe we know different kinds of bots/packet hack tools
Ell
Ell
hi guys
@LucDanton :(
What breaks it?
@CollinHockey Security options bro
Well I'm going to the beach
Some forms of pack expansion, but not all. E.g. template<typename... T, EnableIf<foo<T...>>> ... will not work. On the other hand, I've had template<typename... T, EnableIf<foo<void(T...)>>> ... work lol.
Or maybe GCC can't unpack the pack for some foo (perhaps something to do with matching the pack to the template parameters of the template). I haven't investigated much.
13:55
Looks very weird.
Does foo<Alias<T>...> work?
Ow, seems like the C++ is making my headache worse.
@Abyx Could be, but as far as I know most cheating tools still operate on either the direct game state or even the rendering/physics/... libs. Which is why most anti-cheat tools focus on binary integrity. I don't say you can't write cheats through network hacking, but it's not the primary concern for anti-cheating. (session security of course is something else).
@RMartinhoFernandes Often does that to me too

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