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12:00 PM
any hoops, lunch time for me :D
 
Oh, it's still noon? I recovered the three hours I lost yesterday!
 
ah, gcc 4.7 released
 
I wonder if it's less buggy than 4.6.0 was
or if I should wait for 4.7.1
 
12:02 PM
at least this time I don't actually need to upgrade. 4.6 has the features I need
what's status on threading, again?
 
which basically means "nothing, go away", right?
 
sweet
 
Only MSVC has put a serious effort on that so far.
Now there's little else missing, so they'll have to tackle it anyway.
 
12:09 PM
New DF, with the item ownership fix.
 
Oh sweet. Was waiting for that all week.
 
And the animal training stuff.
 
> He trained the second generation of raccoons while they were young, so they became fully tame without risk of reversion.
Awesome.
Now my cave crawlers can wipe my fort from within.
I just used unsafePerformIO.
shiver
 
12:36 PM
> OpenGL Error: Failed to find free space, to place repatch for glXFreeContextEXT.
Wut.
Apparently it's a VBox thing.
Anyone with real Linux around? I need testing.
 
Depends what you mean by "real" linux. I have arch linux running right now.
 
I mean not virtualised one.
 
Ahh, then yes.
 
hg clone bitbucket.org/piotrlegnica/libglskel, python waf.py configure build, build/glskel_test
Should create two windows with triangles.
 
12:41 PM
Needs Boost and GCC 4.6, obviously.
 
Got both
 
How's the build?
Run waf?
 
python waf.py configure build
 
Good morning peeps.
 
Runs, no error seen.
 
12:44 PM
Segfault.
 
Odd
 
Runs as in shows the windows, or nothing?
I fail at X11, probablyh.
 
Shows the windows, no triangles though.
 
$ build/glskel_test
Segmentation fault
$
@CatPlusPlus Not a X11 problem :P
 
Well, it's a start.
Where's that segfault?
 
12:46 PM
Here.
 
I want backtrace!
 
Why am i not getting a segfault? Both same builds right?
 
#0  0xb7be50d0 in __strchr_sse2_bsf () from /lib/libc.so.6
#1  0x0807dd88 in GetGLVersion (pOutMajor=0x80a6a90, pOutMinor=0x80a6a94) at ../src/glload/gll_c.c:114
#2  0x0807df23 in LoadFunctions () at ../src/glload/gll_c.c:179
#3  0x08065b97 in glload::LoadFunctions () at ../src/glload/gll_cpp.cpp:35
#4  0x08062e09 in glskel::detail::linux::init_context_functions (display=0x80a9088) at ../src/linux/window_factory_impl.cpp:21
#5  0x08063354 in glskel::detail::linux::window_factory_impl::make_window (this=0x80a9078, template_=...) at ../src/linux/window_factory_impl.cpp:49
 
So, X11 problem. :P
 
lol
Oh, you may be interested in knowing that my hardware doesn't support all of 3.0.
 
12:54 PM
Hmm, i think I saw it targeting 1.4
 
It uses GLX 1.4, but the test app creates 3.2 core context.
 
Yep, no dice here.
 
I can't fix my VBox. :<
 
Ahh, haven't read the full code.
 
12:56 PM
Y U NO WORK.
 
Realness is best.
What distro are you trying to use in VBox?
 
Mint x64.
That error is generated by VBox DRI driver.
Maybe VMWare will be more cooperative.
 
Worth a shot.
 
1:12 PM
@KonradRudolph just reached my feeed aggregator:
tratt.net/laurie/tech_articles/articles/… (Parsing: The Solved Problem That Isn't)
Via LtU by the way
 
I'll evaporate you!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes ? whom?
 
@sehe LtU?
 
@KonradRudolph Lambda the Ultimate
 
ah
of course
 
1:22 PM
ΛtU.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Bingo. λtυ looking nicer imo
 
is there a reason why so many non native English speakers use 'in case' when really they mean 'if'
 
@thecoshman Because it’s correct?
 
1:24 PM
@KonradRudolph "in case you were right, I wouldn't ask it" that is wrong, it is "if you were right, I wouldn't ask it"
 
Probably some literal translation from some idiom on their native tongue?
 
@thecoshman I agree with that. But there are cases where it’s correct … I’ve never consciously heard it used in other cases.
 
@thecoshman So the answer would be: "No, there isn't". Unless, it is the same reason why you are making typos every other post :)
 
fwiw, “In case you’re right I don’t need to ask this” is correct though weird. What makes it weird in the above is just the past subjunctive.
Well “correct”
it’s really weird
 
Thinking about it, "in case" is probably not use all that often
@sehe I was thinking more along the lines of other languages phrasing things differently to English
 
1:31 PM
@thecoshman aha. Fair enough. I don't see it, from my language base, i think. Only in French, perhaps: 'En cas' is roughly equivalent to if, IIRC
 
I think si is more equivalent to if
 
@bamboon true. It didn't pop into my head
 
@sehe I think “au cas où” corresponds pretty closely to “in case” … for instance, “au cas où c'était juste je n'aurais pas demandé” (translation of @thecoshman’s example) is incorrect in French as well
 
@KonradRudolph: are you native French? I'd expect 'en cas c'était' there
@KonradRudolph on the subject, I think you are right, si just didn't pop up, like I said
 
@sehe Not native but did the baccalauréat since I lived there for four years, and finished highschool
 
1:34 PM
It's "au cas où", actually.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yes, of course
 
@KonradRudolph Aw, that's authority in my book.
@EtiennedeMartel Win
 
@EtiennedeMartel In fact, feel free to correct the rest of the sentence since my French is extremely rusty … I recently let a friend correct a letter for me which contained atrocious mistakes
 
@KonradRudolph who wrote it ? (:))
 
The rest is correct.
 
1:37 PM
How is it, that every 10 days, we have a discussion on/about/involving French on here. And it is never a French guy who starts it
 
I'm not French. But I get your point.
Damn, that muffin is disintegrating around me.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Oops, drawing a conclusion based on the name only.
@EtiennedeMartel You're inside a muffin?!
 
@sehe The letter? Well, me.
 
@KonradRudolph I thought so. I just probed because you didn't state that particular bit of information :)
 
@sehe My ancestors were French, though. Well, almost: my great grandfather was Dutch, IIRC.
 
1:39 PM
Meh, X doesn't start under VMware and I'm not patient enough to fix it. Maybe Cygwin will work.
 
@sehe Ah, I thought it was clear from context since I had just invited Etienne to criticise the crap outta me.
 
@sehe No, I'm eating an incredibly weak-willed muffin.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Hey that just reminds me, one of my great grandfathers is supposed to have been French. The rest of me is utterly Dutch, I'm afraid
 
All my great grandfathers were Portuguese. I'm pure and functional!
 
@KonradRudolph True. I wasn't doubting it. I was subconciously replacing 'correct a letter for me' with 'correct a letter of mine' and thought it'd be fun to check that.
 
1:42 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes You mean you're like Haskell?
 
I enjoy detecting such interpretative context, in a way. Sorry for the noise :)
 
@EtiennedeMartel Exactly. Awesome.
 
So, you shovel clouds?
 
So, lazy, too.
 
That as well.
 
1:45 PM
@EtiennedeMartel I don't get it.
 
Xeo
Fuck you GEMA. Hell yeah Stealthy.
 
You broke YouTube?
 
Xeo
Nah, Auto-proxy.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, I translated "pelleter des nuages", which refers to someone who focuses on theory without thinking about practice.
 
Bah, Cygwin has GCC 4.5.
 
1:49 PM
@Xeo does stealthy work fine for you? it was quite slow when I tested it
 
Xeo
Seems to work fine atleast
The best thing is that you only need to have it active while opening the video
You can deactivate it right after
 
lol
So now you can watch all those pirate movies, eh?
With luck you may win a trip to the US.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes You mean movies about pirates?
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes Fuck the US. FUCK YOU USA!!!
 
@EtiennedeMartel lol
Oh, it has plot.
 
1:54 PM
Amazing.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes what do you mean by pirate videos? (relating to youtube)
 
> The New York Times described the film as "a relatively high-budget story of a group of ragtag sailors who go searching for a crew of evil pirates who have a plan for world domination. Also, many of the characters in the movie have sex with one another."
lol
 
"By the way, it's porn."
 
Xeo
Such an awesome song.
 
@bamboon Videos that are blocked in Germany for IP reasons.
 
1:57 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes well, but they are not classically pirated, or do I misunderstand you
 
Yeah, I heard Germany is pretty bone headed when it comes to IP laws.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Not any more than other countries, actually … certainly less so than the USA
it’s just that the rights manager of music in Germany (GEMA) wants too much money from YouTube, whereas rights managers in other countries have entered into contracts with YouTube
 
Canada might get there too if the current government keeps going forward. Damn you, Conservatives.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Isn't that a contradiction? "conservative" and "going forward"?
 
C++'s forward is conservative.
 
Xeo
2:01 PM
@KonradRudolph GEMA demands so much money that grooveshark discontinued their service in Germany... :|
 
@Xeo Well to be honest I’m not sure that Grooveshark ever made a serious effort to stay legal and enter a serious contract.
It’s simply the case that an ad-financed service doesn’t pay
unless you’re Google, that is
 
@jalf Fun fact: the canadian Conservative Party used to be called the Progressive Conservative Party. Then it merged with the Canadian Alliance to become the right wing god fearing fear mongering atrocity it is today.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Can't be worse than our bible belt republicans
 
Yeah, well, there is a joke that says that Canadian right wingers are equivalent to American left wingers.
 
0
Q: SHA1 collision?

user1188404I'm wondering if anyone have a clue how I can fake a string of data to a know hash like this: unsigned char myHash[] = "da39a3ee5e6b4b0d3255bfef95601890afd80709"; unsigned int length = 10000; CreateDataFromHash(myHash, length); And the CreateDataFromHash will return the string of the length 10...

"Hey, can you break SHA1 for me?"
 
2:09 PM
> Nice try, NSA. You'll just have to do your own research.
Brute forcing shouldn't be that hard now that we have CUDA and OpenCL.
 
Worst case scenario: rent a botnet.
 
You can generate millions of SHA512 hashes per second with an average GPU.
MD5 or SHA1 is nothing.
 
> Cameron McDonald, Philip Hawkes and Josef Pieprzyk presented a hash collision attack with claimed complexity 2^52 at the Rump session of Eurocrypt 2009.[27] However, the accompanying paper, "Differential Path for SHA-1 with complexity O(2^52)" has been withdrawn due to the authors' discovery that their estimate was incorrect.[28]
@CatPlusPlus Millions.
2^18s.
Damn close, right?
 
That's why you should use bcrypt.
 
2:15 PM
BarsWF claims 350M/s on CUDA.
That's MD5, but SHA1 isn't all that more expensive.
 
It's like GPUs were made for this shit.
 
It's highly parallelisable.
 
But 350M is nothing!
 
Well, for passwords it's enough. :P
 
Theoretical attacks require 30 orders of magnitude more generations.
 
2:17 PM
Hm, we could create Cracking@Home.
 
@CatPlusPlus Oh yeah, because you're hashing from a substantially reduced subset.
@EtiennedeMartel > . To that end, a collision search for SHA-1 using the distributed computing platform BOINC began August 8, 2007, organized by the Graz University of Technology. The effort was abandoned May 12, 2009 due to lack of progress
 
@EtiennedeMartel Already done, though I don't remember the name.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes do they mean a rainbow table?
 
@thecoshman No, that effort was for a generic attack.
Rainbow tables are used for passwords because the domain is very narrow.
 
Rainbow tables aren't really worth the effort any more.
 
2:22 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes well, not 'passwords' exclusively
In my younger, more foolish, days I thought it would be cool to set up a web site for people to play chess. The board state would be stored as a string (perhaps) and the relationship between states would be logged. Slowly, the system would learn paths of moves that could lead to a win. Eventually, it dawned on me how much time and space it would take
perhaps one day...
 
wow, finally a valid offensive flag
3
 
link plz :D
 
hmm, don’t have it but it was a creep hitting on a girl
 
on SO?
 
that's not offensive by it self :P
 
2:27 PM
@thecoshman Checkers was solved a few years back. Chess is next.
in Android, 3 mins ago, by Sameer
@colabug:hey i did not want to ping but i have to.You looks very sweet in your picture at so and your website
 
@RMartinhoFernandes well, checkers is like and a order of magnitude of order of magnitudes simpler then chess
 
@KonradRudolph I wonder what the reaction would be if it was a creep hitting on a guy.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Lol.
 
@Xeo I love that font :D
 
2:32 PM
Yes, it's great and it makes your eyes bleed.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes From me? Probably the same. That said, the programming community has a particular problem attracting women, not guys
so I’m particularly allergic to douches who scare off women
 
The flag was acted upon pretty fast.
 
@KonradRudolph I don't think it has a problem attracting them, it just there is a problem with scaring them once they do show up
 
I find the whole situation silly.
How is one scared off by a random comment from a random person on a text-based chat?
 
@thecoshman What about just treating them as normal cats and dogs and other avatars?
 
2:34 PM
If he were calling her IRL or something, but this? Lol.
Ignore, forget.
 
@KonradRudolph But that is important for the survival for our species!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I would have thought that would work, but it seems there are too many dicks
pun intended :D
 
Only on ChatRoulette.
 
@StackedCrooked What, being a dick to girls?
 
@KonradRudolph Hitting on them. It's the first step towards reproduction.
 
2:37 PM
@StackedCrooked In his case? Not the first step.
(Because there’s not going to be a next.)
Furthermore, hitting on girls in a professional setting unless you know them quite well is simply deemed socially unacceptable, and for good reasons
it degrades your professional interlocutor to a non-professional, non-peer
 
No need to give serious replies to my random silly blurting.
It's just Friday for me.
 
Are you on Australia?
 
@StackedCrooked Always friday somewhere ;)
 
@KonradRudolph erm... except when it isn't? last I checked, the worlds is divided in time zones, not days zones
 
Each days lasts 50 hours. One week is 168 hours. It's Friday about 30% of the time.
 
2:44 PM
@ScottW cheese cake?
 
@thecoshman But there could be a movie playing where it's Friday.
 
Oh, nice, cap.
I'm starting to think sentences like this don't work very well.
 
@StackedCrooked erm... cheese cake?
 
It's Friiiiiiiiday.
 
So close to being able to make new tags
 
2:46 PM
What tag do you want to make?
 
just you wait... obscure tags will be on all my questions <evil lol>
 
I created :P
 
There have been times I wanted to make tags, usually when it's specific version of an API
such as JOGL2 which is very different from JOGL1
@CatPlusPlus go get @DaveC
 
Oh, that thing. Don't remind me.
 
2:48 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes was it you who helped me through my JOGL woahs?
 
Who's that?
 
he he he, and now I think I am going to leave Java OpenGL alone :P
 
Clearly you need my library.
 
2:49 PM
I don't know, he just joined the room. I noticed he was also a cat. I think @CatPlusPlus should fend him off
 
Xeo
Defend his territory?
 
@CatPlusPlus I intend to use it when I can on linux :D
 
Xeo
But we got a much bigget "Cat" here
 
@Xeo Indeed
 
It doesn't work on Linux. ^_^
Yet.
 
2:50 PM
@CatPlusPlus I did saw "when" :P
 
This is going to be a thing, doesn't it.
 
red neck speak was that
 
I dun made a murstake was all
 
2:52 PM
I keep forgetting I'm building GCC prereqs.
A step finishes and I remember half an hour later to run the next one.
 
And who starred this
 
Starfish.
Woo, GCC is building.
And my computer turned into a vacuum cleaner.
 
Mine lifts off.
> look buddy nobody goes seeking out a song without liking it so what if you heard it from an old video game, am I goanna start verbally assaulting people by saying that nobody gives a shit if you like this band and that's how you found the song or how nobody cares that you heard it on the radio and that's how you found the song? no because all that matters is that they agree with you on the fact that it's a good song. gosh Idk how some people like you find useless reasons to start an arguement
YouTube comments are amazing.
 
I can't process it.
It happens a lot with these things.
 
@CatPlusPlus That's what makes it amazing.
Someone, somewhere, somewhen, produced that sequence of words believing they were making sense.
2
Oh, "somewhen" is a word.
 
3:03 PM
is there any standard way to add compile time/date to a build?
 
__TIME__ and __DATE__ expand to appropriate string literals.
 
Good morning all.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes but aren't they gcc only?
 
Could use your help on something if some of you have the time.
 
@bamboon Nope, standard.
 
3:05 PM
Woah.
 
Would you guys say that the closure of this question as a duplicate is accurate (rather, is the thing it's marked as a duplicate of really it's dupe)?
5
Q: C++ Template Iterator error

gprime Possible Duplicate: Where to put the “template” and “typename” on dependent names I am going over some code i wrote in 2006 as an undergrad. It's a simple genetic algorithm library written in C++ using templates. It use to work in 2006 when i coded it with visua...

 
That's common practice..
This yet-another-annoying-C++-quirk keeps popping up and I don't see value in duplicating its answer all over.
 
It's not a duplicate in the sense that OP here doesn't even know about dependent names, so couldn't possibly ask about them.
But it is the answer.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes ok, so this answer is kinda wrong stackoverflow.com/a/2526975/893693?
 
Maybe there should be "answered by another question" close reason, for not-exact duplicates.
 
3:08 PM
@bamboon Yeah, it's a bit misleading.
 
Because it's arguing semantics at this point.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes ok, thanks
 
And my head starts to hurt from the fan noise.
 
@casperOne Well, close as dupe is the only way the system provides to say "the answer to this question can be found here".
 
@CatPlusPlus So you would say that the close reason and the link only serve to confuse the issue, correct?
 
3:09 PM
SHUT UP, CPU.
@casperOne Well, probably. Otherwise people wouldn't be arguing about it. :P
 
There's an argument?
Oh.
 
Yeah, but I tend to try and ignore comments on questions tagged C++ now, for reasons I assume are common knowledge (we can joke about this now, right?) =)
Anyways, we've removed the duplicate closure. I appreciate the input guys, thank you. cc @RMartinhoFernandes @CatPlusPlus et al.
 
@thecoshman It’s a meme on meta …
 
Woo, I'm helping.
 
lol
Wait, why does it say January 6th 2011 in the question?
I thought this was recent.
 
3:16 PM
Must be them timezones.
I didn't even pay attention.
 
@CatPlusPlus technically, the CPU is not making the noise, it's the fans trying to stop your CPU from 'clocking' it
he he he, puns
 
@thecoshman Really.
 
@CatPlusPlus unless you have a mechanical CPU
that would be cool though
damn it, I thought it was an hour later then it really is
 
I don't care about some argument that happened between the ape and the penguin more than a year ago. I no longer exist more than a year ago.
Also, bloody timeouts.
 
@CatPlusPlus your openGL 'framework'... although not ready to be actually used on linux, I presume you have the interface sorted out, as you said it is working on windows
 
3:24 PM
Well, more or less. No API promises before 1.0, but I quite like the current one.
 
But, but, factories!
 
Necessary. There's stuff to be done before windows can be created.
It's either that or globals!
 
Or lazy init in the window ctor.
 
does that mean I could start to develop with it, and just hope that a) you don't change it too drastically and b) I don't end up with a rat's nest of code that doesn't really mean anything and is beyond salvation
 
Still globals.
 
3:26 PM
Oh.
Right.
I'm going to take a nop. Later.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes going to recharge the batteries?
so @cat, what say ye, can I 'test' your library?
it might help you if you have some one trying to actually use it :P even if it is me
 
Yes. Even if I do change API, the impact is limited to event handling loop.
The entire thing is really two interfaces and a window template.
The rest is pure OpenGL.
I've bundled GLload today, so it'll work out of box, just needs Boost and recent GCC.
Possibly Clang, but not tested.
Woo, GCC finished building.
 
I think you missed one @cat, it reall should have been called "libSkelGeL"
huh... so I would have to sort out boost as well ¬_¬
 
3:44 PM
It doesn't require anything compiled, just the headers.
 
Are you going to add any openGL utility stuff to it? such as compiling shader programs? or you going to leave that to the user?
 
You can copy it from test\main.cpp. :P Not in scope of this project, though.
 
I saw that. I didn't think it would be
 
It really intends to be bare minimum to create and handle the window.
 
yeah, will nice when it is working
would be great for teaching people openGL
 
3:48 PM
Now that I think about it, I could even add DirectX support and not change the interface one bit.
Well, a tiny bit.
 
I see you prefer function_named_like_this rather then onesNameLikeThis
@CatPlusPlus NO!
bad kitty!
you keep DX out of this
 
I try to follow typical language naming conventions.
Boost and stdlib use this one.
I use camel-case in Java, Pascal-case in C#, and so on.
 
meh, as long as it's consistent, I don't mind
actaully, I like that you use underscore spacing, as I prefer camel, so it is easier to see what is libglskel stuff and what is my stuff
I like in your test/main.cpp the simple_porgram struct
:O
> #define BUFFER_OFFSET(x) ((const GLvoid*)(x * sizeof(GLfloat)))
¬_¬
> #undef BUFFER_OFFSET
I guess that makes it ok again... just about
 
^ - nice article about the sheer awesomeness that is C++.
> The situation is particularly ironic because the argument that has been advanced for discarding Lisp in favor of C++ (and now for Java) is that JPL should use "industry best practice." The problem with this argument is twofold: first, we're confusing best practice with standard practice....
 

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