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12:00 AM
4 hours ago, by Cat Plus Plus
NMANKMEA K:E  : ffaattaall  eerrrrooNrrM  AUUK11E00 55:N88 M::f A atKtteEear rlm:m i iennfraaartttoeeardd l  U bb1eyy0r  5ruu8oss:ree  rrUt

1eSS0rtt7moo7ipp:n.. a

'ted by user
^^ Dunno what surprises me most: NMakes fantastic parallellization down to the IO or the fact that the output is evidently flushing every 1 character...
4 hours ago, by Mooing Duck
hmm, my Windows Event Viewer says "Main.java" threw an exception on line 341. My main.java file only has 89 lines.
^^ Was that your 'valid offensive flag'? Must be.
So. Much. Evil. In. Single. Posting....
 
hehe
that wasn’t it
 
@Xeo I wouldn't, or at least only cold. Nylon may shrink when heated (dunno,, might even melt in a dryer, I guess)
 
12:25 AM
@sehe The messages certainly are nicely interleaved.
 
@Xeo it is sooo meta that that hyperlink linked to a 'clone' page of that code snippet on ideone. Pass-by-value semantics in hyperlinks
 
Xeo
@sehe Wow, I fail. :)
Must be the habit of clicking the lower-left corner of something to get the direct link to it (from SO)
 
@Xeo Hah. Amazingly, that explanation works. I can imagine how that happens
@ScottW what's that about
Multiline markdown wins again
@ScottW Don't think there is. Search meta for 'multiline chat markdown' - I remember seeing that this is by design (don't quite know why)
ǝʞɐɔlɟoɹ
Sleep well, everybody
 
12:46 AM
hi guys!

Who has worked with Hyperbolic geometry?
Do some GNU products exist , which are open source , which contents hyperbolic geometry? I want to look at sources
@sehe I wonder you will help me to wonder with wonders, no? :)
 
damn
I was playing Uplink
I stole a massive sum of money from a bank but got caught whilst I was still trying to erase the evidence
 
@DeadMG which bank?
 
Xeo
Use your puppy eyes!
 
actaully
pretty much the only thing I consider a significant failing of Uplink is that there's no saves, effectively
you have to manually remember to copy your user out before trying anything risky
fortunately, I'm so practiced at the game that it doesn't take me long to start trying to crack banks
 
Xeo
Atleast you still have that option
tell that the old NES/Sega games
 
12:59 AM
@Xeo who must use? me?
 
lol
 
Xeo
Who here has a puppy as their avatar?
 
Mario fell in a pit. Let's start over all again.
 
me and ScottW
I protested greatly against him stealing my unique animal identity, but to little avail
 
deadmg & scottw - ?
 
1:01 AM
what's unfortunate is that I had three bank accounts identified which contained massive sums of money
so I could have robbed all of them
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked :)
 
woof woof
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Well, his isn't actually a puppy now, is it?
 
he insists it is
my argument was more along the lines of "But I'm the puppy in the C++ chat! bitch!"
 
Bitch sounds more appropriate.
For Scott.
"The bitch" sounds like a nice addition to list of secondary names.
So your bitch is a male bitch?
 
Xeo
1:07 AM
@ScottW I'm sure that can be changed
 
#include <stdio.h>
#include <string.h>

char *str1 = "deadmg";
char *str2 = "scottw";

int main(void)
{
for(int i = 0; i < (int)strlen(str1); i++)
{
int conjunction = str1[i] & str2[i];
printf("%i - %i = %i\r\n", str1[i], str2[i], conjunction);
}

return 0;
}
Result is:
100 - 115 = 96
101 - 99 = 97
97 - 111 = 97
100 - 116 = 100
109 - 116 = 100
103 - 119 = 103
@ScottW string.h , becuase of strlen()
so the conjuctive derived from "deadmg" & "scottw" is:

`aaddg
@ScottW maybe shall try disjunction result? :)
wgot}w
 
 
1 hour later…
2:44 AM
user image
3
 
Does anyone know what the difference between an invisible window and a transparent window is in Win32?
 
3:01 AM
Hi.
Hmm, looks like I didn't miss anything interesting.
 
Mornin.
 
3:21 AM
@SethCarnegie an invisible window doesn't show at all, and any child windows are also hidden
i got a serial downvoter again. stalker. argh.
what should one vote for flagged messages in the bin? it's a bit meaningless i think
 
@CheersandhthAlf If the threshold is reached, the poster gets suspended.
 
hm i hope the threshhold is not too high. twas just 3 postings. in succession
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Cow something sounds fine.
 
It's copy-on-write.
 
Ah, copy-on-write, almost forgot about that.
 
3:28 AM
Or maybe it's a verb. Like, smoke cow feet, then go and cow something.
 
In Accelerated C++ it was taught as one of the advanced (almost) automatic memory management techniques.
But it rarely gets mentioned today.
 
Herb's latest argues against COW in multi-threaded environment. But I just skimmed it so I'm not sure whether it was new argument. I think g++ uses COW for basic_string.
 
@CheersandhthAlf Not anymore.
 
They say love is a verb. I say neglect is also a verb.
 
And "verb" is also a verb!
 
3:31 AM
You can't just verb nouns!
 
Oh sorry it wasn't Herb's latest, it was just someone posting a link to old article! It seems.
 
I don't like COW because it doesn't work right with C++'s interface.
std::string s = "blah";
char x = s[2]; // Copy!
 
template< class T > T const& consted( T const& o ) { return o; }
 
COW is lazy copying. But copies usually aren't that expensive anyway so why not copy them eagerly?
 
?
char x = consted( s )[2]; // Copy?
 
3:34 AM
Sure you can make workarounds, but that requires discipline.
 
IMO, it's an interface flaw
 
Exactly what I said.
 
there's no reason to permit any operations on the result of operator[] except operator=(char) and operator char(), IMO
 
Having to consider if you're making a copy or not everytime you index into a string is not good.
 
no, I meant, on the indexing operator
 
3:35 AM
@DeadMG What about binding to char&?
 
ban it with fire
 
I wouldn't mind operator[]=, like Ruby.
 
sure, it's called struct some_thing { operator=(...); }; some_thing operator[](...);
 
my std::rel_ops don't work
 
@DeadMG Writing those proxies is annoying as heck.
And it blows with auto.
 
3:40 AM
How wrong is this?
 
auto x = get_some_string()[3]; // BLAM!
 
    template< class Derived >
    class ComparisionOps
    {
    public:
        friend int compare( Derived const a, Derived const& b )
        {
            return a.comparedTo( b );
        }

        friend bool operator<( Derived const a, Derived const b )
        {
            return (compare( a, b ) < 0);
        }

        friend bool operator==( Derived const a, Derived const b )
        {
            return (compare( a, b ) == 0);
        }
    };
 
@RMartinhoFernandes What's wrong with that?
 
Reference?
 
@DeadMG If the string is a temporary and operator[] returns a proxy, you just made yourself a reference to a lost temp.
 
3:42 AM
then introduce an rvalue overload which returns char by value
 
See, all I want is to be able to do indexed assign as one piece, and you're already at two classes.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Python does that
 
It's a pain to write all that for something so simple.
 
nah
you'd need to have a separate rvalue overload that returns char by value anyway
to prevent silly things like get_string()[3] = 5;
although, of course, writing such a system would be much easier in Wide... but hey
 
@DeadMG FTR, it also annoys me that I already have to write two overloads with the exact same body for const and non-const. Just one more won't hurt.
 
3:48 AM
OK, I reduced the rel_ops problem to a small example:
#include <utility>

namespace ns {
    using namespace std::rel_ops;

    class Foo
    {
    public:
        bool operator<( Foo ) const { return false; }
        bool operator==( Foo ) const { return false; }
    };
}

int main()
{
    ns::Foo     a;
    ns::Foo     b;

    // using namespace std::rel_ops;
    a < b;
    a <= b;
    a == b;
    a >= b;
    a > b;
    a != b;
}
If I uncomment the commented line then it compiles fine.
WHy doesn't ADL kick in or something?
 
I remember discussing rel_ops here before and coming to the conclusion it sucks and is worthless.
 
ADL sucks balls
if only I had more mental fortitude and expended my time coding and specifying instead of playing and watching games :P
 
@CheersandhthAlf Does it work if you using each operator individually, instead of using namespace?
 
Yes, i just tried that.
But i do not understand the difference?
Is this, like, a task for Johannes?
 
@DeadMG am I remembering right in thinking that you said "everything inheriting from a single class" is a bad design
 
3:53 AM
6
A: SFINAE to test a free function from another namespace

jpalecekThe thing is, that the using directive doesn't add members to the current namespace, so the std:: members could still be hidden by declarations in this namespace. using std::isnan would instead behaves as if the members of the imported namespace were added to the namespace enclosing both the use...

I ran into this before.
 
like "everything inherits from object!" something
 
And I think I was discussing the isnan thing with you at the time.
 
4:12 AM
Hi all :)
 
user406009
There really isn't any reason to say "hi" in IRC type chats(such as this). Your icon already pops on the screen. It just creates extra noise.
 
@EthanSteinberg is this chat based on IRC protocol?
 
4:28 AM
what is the main diffrent between typedef && #define ?
 
4:40 AM
@EthanSteinberg Just as there's no reason to do so in real life. Your body is already in front of the other person.
 
this chat is pretty far from IRC
and at least for me, I never, ever see the icon pop
 
How programming languages are determinating as "programming language"? I have thought , that Turing Machine is using for this option.
 
man
so much code to write, so little ... ability to pay attention
 
I don't understand, how can I name programming language as "programming"? Turing Machine has infinite tape
programming language may use non-native compiler ( as Eiffel uses C++ )
so , the question is about language semantic/syntax and what operations language supports?
so , even Windows Shell langauge at cmd.exe can be named as "programming" or not?
 
python + barebones roguelike dev = pain
pain and much death on both sides :(
 
4:56 AM
@Hoxieboy barebones? what does this word mean?
don't understand exactly subword "bare" in this word
 
5:47 AM

DNA development

DNA, RNA, proteins computing
 
it's titsing cold in here
good thing the heating is due to come on in ten minutes
of course, that predicates turning it on first
 
@RMartinhoFernandes hi :) have you tried to learn DNA-computing/algorithms?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes it's a way to emulate computing processes with DNA or RNA ( often with DNA ), there are 4-5 element, which are using as data in computing process and trying to emulate PC on finite-state machine model
with DNA-computing, it's possible solve many NP-problems
because, the molecular power can combine many results
there are problem with getting the resulting with serch-algorithms
because the strcut of organic stuff is very heavy
 
 
3 hours later…
8:32 AM
is somebody bored and wants to explain me what perfect forwarding is all about?
 
perfect forwarding?
 
yeah
 
idk
 
@bamboon about DNA?
 
@user1131997 what does perfect forwarding have to do with DNA?
 
8:43 AM
@bamboon sovling NP-problems for example
the calculations power of dna is miles better than power of quantum PC
 
Maybe that's because our minds are a sort of parallel processor/FPGA
 
the main problem of DNA-computing is not combos ( which moleculars generates immediatly ), the main problem is getting the generated results

becuase protein, dna, rna structures are very diffecult and large
 
@bamboon it's about being able to write wrapper functions that forward the arguments passed to them to the target function without changing whether they're const/volatile/a reference/a value/etc form the POV of the target function
 
so it has a very bad asymptotic for getting results
 
e.g. make_shared<T>(arg1, arg2, etc) constructs a T and calls its constructor with the arguments you passed to make_shared
 
8:50 AM
@bamboon Nothing.
 
@je4d yeah, but what would be the difference if I didn't forward the arguments, that's the part I don't get
 
It's a wrapper around the constructor.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes why nothing?
 
void f(foo&& x) {
    // is x an lvalue or an rvalue here?
}
 
@bamboon if you try to do this in C++03, you need a number of overloads that's exponential in the number of arguments
with variadic templates and rvalue refs you can do it with one definition
 
8:52 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes a rvalue reference? or do you mean the original x?
 
@bamboon There is only one x there.
 
so wait, x is a reference of a reference of a foo?
 
DNA arrays that display a representation of the Sierpinski gasket on their surfaces
 
It's an rvalue reference, but it is an lvalue. It won't bind to an && parameter and will be copied if passed by value. You need to use something to preserve its "rvalue-ness".
 
8:54 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes ah ok, now that makes sense
 
DNA computing is fundamentally similar to parallel computing in that it takes advantage of the many different molecules of DNA to try many different possibilities at once. For certain specialized problems, DNA computers are faster and smaller than any other computer built so far. Furthermore, particular mathematical computations have been demonstrated to work on a DNA computer.
 
Here std::move would work, but the problem is when you have more than one parameter and want to accept both lvalues and rvalues.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes man you gotta be able to read my mind, just wanted to ask why std::move wouldn't work here. thanks guys
 
ok, That explains why I keep thinking of parallel computing. Sounds interesting.
Nice Copy Paste btw.
 
template <typename T>
void f(T&& t) {
    // so, we've seen that t is an lvalue.
    // is it an rvalue reference?
}
 
9:00 AM
@Griallia it has many intersting sides
i like the it's stuctures , which are synonime for bits-sequencs in pc
 
The type deduction rules for T&& let it bind to both lvalues and rvalues. If you pass an lvalue of type foo, the T will be deduced as foo&. There are rules for collapsing references that say T&& = foo& && = foo&. So, t will be an lvalue reference is an lvalue was passed. If an rvalue is passed, T gets deduced as foo, and T&& is foo&&, an rvalue reference.
 
Not surprised. The cell's nuclei has to act as a processor with the DNA as the data/code.
 
std::forward takes advantage of this to let you pass along the parameter with the same value category it had.
 
both DNA && RNA are based of 4 nucleobases , and seems to be , that the term "replication" has come to programming from biochemistry/biology

maybe and "complementarity" is already in programming ( don't exactly know it ) or will be the similar method
 
@RMartinhoFernandes so that is what happens in this example en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/utility/forward
?
 
9:05 AM
DNA uses: Adenine (c5h5n5 ), Guanine (c5h5n5o) , Thymine ( c5h6n2o2 ) , Cytosine ( c4n5n3o )
 
@bamboon No, because T&& is not the same as typename std::remove_reference<T>::type&&.
The former may be either kind of reference, but the latter is always an rvalue reference.
 
RNA uses intstead of Thymine Uracil ( c4h4n2o2 )
these are main stucts of DNA/RNA
and there only connections , which can't be another ( only such , each nucleobase can't be connected with another one, only with one )
A - T ( DNA ) or U ( if RNA )
G - C
 
@RMartinhoFernandes are you also talking about the example of make_unique?
 
afk ( skimming through python for the next 2 hours )
 
@bamboon Oh, I missed the example below, sorry.
@bamboon Yes, that's what happens in that example.
I thought you were talking about the definition of std::forward.
 
9:10 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes yeah thought so
 
I just had an idea how to make enums wonderful.
Hint: it involves variants.
 
morning
 
variant<empty_type0, empty_type1, empty_type2>?
 
Yeah, something like that.
 
9:15 AM
What's so wonderful about that?
 
I can squeeze conversions there in not-very-ugly way!
 
I don't get it.
 
I don't get it
 
I don't get it
@RMartinhoFernandes were you imagining that as an enum of types rather than an enum of values?
 
@je4d No, that's an enum of values.
 
9:20 AM
what does the word "lounge" at the name of this chart room mean?

Lounge<C++> is clear, Lounge<T>

but what's Lounge?
 
Type 5 (an enum with 5 values) is isomorphic with type 1+1+1+1+1 (a variant of five unit types).
It's elementary grade math.
 
oh
Lounge: A public room, as in a hotel, theater, or club, in which to sit and relax.
I'm sitting here relaxing in my Lounge<C++>
lol
 
9:33 AM
@CatPlusPlus So, are you going to explain or not?
 
I'm writing code
 
extension methods are polymorphic or isomorphic?
 
They're isomorphic to themselves.
 
the bot was faster again
 
oh, the clang c++ status page was updated again. Anyone able to tell me what's new?
 
9:39 AM
@TonyTheLion Well, that one was easy. Everything is isomorphic to itself.
 
@jalf clang recently added delayed instantiations of scoped enumerators in a class template
 
@jalf I don't remember seeing UCNs there before.
 
next up they will add out-of-line definitions of enumerations with a fixed underlying type that's a member of a class template
 
So now we can write auto const π = 3.14;!
 
hey guys , can you tell me, in what field c++ is the best option for work? network programming , game programming etc.
 
9:40 AM
@jalf relatively new are user defined literals in clang
 
@RMartinhoFernandes you mean to themselves internally ( exactly only between extension methods ) ?
 
noone seems to like inheriting constructors xD
 
noone seems to like TLS :(
 
@user1131997 "polymorphic" and "isomorphic" are not opposites.
 
Monomorphic is opposite?
Morphisms are confusing :S
 
9:44 AM
isomorphic means "structurally equivalent"
 
Polymorphic means "many forms", isomorphic means "same form".
 
Hello, ladies and gentlemen.
 
@Pubby Yep, that would be it: "single form".
 
@RMartinhoFernandes iso, it's when we have for example 2 sets with certain structure and bijection is isomorphic, if it saves struct of these 2 sets in one new
 
9:45 AM
@user1131997 So, what was your question about?
 
is there an ansimorphic ?
 
about extension methods, the mechanism of ext-methods , which represents such stuff could be called

A) poly
B) iso
C) both
 
@JohannesSchaublitb that... is a terrible joke ;)
 
or poly including iso by its definition?
 
9:47 AM
FTR, I don't know what you mean by "extension methods".
 
i guess ansimorphic means "same form with informative differences"
 
Hence my tautological answer above.
 
Nope
@JohannesSchaublitb You mean "Anamorphic"
 
extension methods as in C#?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes the same method , with different arguments but the equal name in one memory area
 
9:48 AM
nope. i mean Analmorphic
 
oh
 
@JohannesSchaublitb You keep forgetting the C
 
@tom_mai78101 No, he doesn't mean that. "Anamorphic" is not a joke.
 
@JohannesSchaublitb Canalmorphic... I guess "nice try" would be my solution then.
 
@jalf as in C# too, thery are in C++ too, no?
 
9:49 AM
Canabismorphic
 
Anamorphs actually exist?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Joke...
@Pubby Yes
 
Ah, stupid class constants.
 
@Pubby I can prove it to you
 
which means "difficult to understand equivalence, don't try when drugged"
 
9:50 AM
 
zip is an anamorphism.
 
unzip is an analmorphism
 
@user1131997 well, no. The thing C# calls extension methods don't exist in C++. But it sounds like you're talking about something else
 
Oh god, stop the unzipping... ugh guh
 
9:51 AM
actually, UDL's are very close to provide C# extension methods
 
logarithm is isomorphic math function
 
Not really.
 
@JohannesSchaublitb hmm, how so?
 
like, 1.0_foo .doSomething(); is possible with C++11
 
You can't chain UDLs.
You can't use UDLs on variables.
"very close" is not at all accurate.
 
9:52 AM
auto x = 1.0_foo; x.doSomething();
 
slightly close ;)
 
Repeat: 1.0_foo is a variable?
 
Unrelated answer, that is.
 
9:53 AM
void A(int a);
void A(int a, int b);

void main(void)
{
A(2);
A(2, 3);
}

Or it's called overloaded functions?
 
Repeat: 1.0_foo is a variable?
 
No, it's a literal.
 
Thank you.
 
why doesn't your name autocomplete, tom_ma
 
MUHAHAHAHA.... You just found it out, eh?
 
9:54 AM
@JohannesSchaublitb it does for me
 
No underscores for auto-complete.
 
as in @tommai78101
 
@jalf extension method in C# don't use overloaded technique?
 
@tommai78101 ohh
why does it display with an underscore
totalyl confusing
 
Aw....
 
9:54 AM
@user1131997 Not sure what you mean
 
Why couldn't you keep it a secret!? My evil plans...
 
i know that for directing ppl you need to omit the underscore
but autocomplete should display the name as displayed
IMO
 
Well, that's true, in opinions
 
actually you can call member functions on integers
for example
 
Oh yeah, I didn't realize, but my username is trunacated.
I lost me 01
 
9:56 AM
int main() { 0 . compl decltype(0)(); }
 
@jalf Extension methods enable you to "add" methods to existing types without creating a new derived type, recompiling, or otherwise modifying the original type. Extension methods are a special kind of static method, but they are called as if they were instance methods on the extended type
 
' function reconstruct_path(came_from, current_node)
if came_from[current_node] is set
p := reconstruct_path(came_from, came_from[current_node])
return (p + current_node)
else
return current_node'
I failed at pseudo-code in SO
 
@user1131997 yep. I know what C# extension methods are. What I didn't get is what you meant by whether they use "overloading technique"
ok, I must be doing something wrong. Been unable to build clang from svn trunk for the last two weeks or something, with the same compile error all the time
 
@jalf how is designed overloaded functions?
 
@jalf don't forget to svn up llvm too
 
9:59 AM
@everyone, I'm in the Sandbox lounge, and I don't know how to type in a code snippet in the CODE format?
 
@JohannesSchaublitb hmm, now you mention it, the problem might be the opposite. svn up'ing in the llvm root doesn't update tools/clang
 
Mar 16 at 9:04, by sbi
If you are new here, please read the newbie hints. Thank you.
It's somewhere in there.
 

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