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user1804599
09:00
When turning on your computer how many mouse clicks does it take you to open your preferred code editor?
user1804599
2 :|
user1804599
One to open VirtualBox, and one to start the VM.
use your kb to do both, problem solved
Ven
Ven
command-space "ter" enter "e" and I'm in emacs. so exactly 0..
Windows-6 is also 0
Ven
Ven
09:03
:P
@DmitriBudnikov still though, bitching airship to connect us for supplies
Ven
Ven
oh my god these retarded flags
imb4 flagged for using the word "retarded" in this context.
user1804599
Ven
Ven
@Zoidberg sssh, remove that
remove .dat
user1804599
remove autoexec.bat
Ven
Ven
09:16
pls bin
@Ven :snackchat:
(The \ is supposed to remind you of a λ)
is it
hello guys
i just want to ask some advice
hello cralos
@DmitriBudnikov yes
@BartekBanachewicz A
09:17
since im rendering a object. while computing the min, max of a list of vector3d. But wwhen the vertex size goes greater then 100000 its make my rendering so slow. since i need to loop on 100000 lines in order to get the min, max value of the vertex
λx.x is almost like \x -> x
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz no it's exactly like it
@DmitriBudnikov that really looks like ∀x.x was meant
Ven
Ven
It's true. All of it. @StarWars: #TheForceAwakens gets the emoji treatment. 😱 https://amp.twimg.com/v/2568c516-85a1-4b0a-9f2d-342f859c3626
@DmitriBudnikov it's all lies and fluffy lambdas
09:19
so i just want to ask if there are some way to improve my rendering while im computing athe min and max vertex
@CarloowLescano Do it on GPU instead of CPU
@DmitriBudnikov 100000 iterations sounds pretty negligible though
@BartekBanachewicz lol
@BartekBanachewicz yes I was thinking that too
yes thats what im doing. Since im developing a cad using c++. i need to update my bounding box every mouse move.
user1804599
Mouse moves are very infrequent.
09:21
Uh, surely a bounding box doesn't require 100k min/max
user1804599
The user is the bottleneck here.
@CarloowLescano if you're feeling fancy, put them on an octree or an R-tree
But anyway even on CPU a proper 100k min/max shouldn't take long unless it's an iAbacus 2
@DmitriBudnikov so should i put the a vertex limit?
user1804599
Users are super slow.
09:21
@CarloowLescano No you should rethink your code
Ven
Ven
rethink your users
user1804599
if [ ! -e fh ]; then
    git clone github.com/rightfold/fh.git fh
user1804599
dependency management at its best
@CarloowLescano if you're accessing the max and min often, create an index
Use SIMD also
09:23
we're talking about whopping hundreds of kilobytes of memory here though
not sure if iAbacus 2 has so much
user1804599
Use MapSeduce.
Also stop using linked lists
after all 640kB oughta be enough for everyone
user1804599
Ven
Ven
Growing up to be a cubicle?
user1804599
09:24
We use the Singleton Reliability Principle (I think that's the name--right?) all the time. In fact we *rely* entirely on singletons.
is there anyway or fastest way to get the min max?
Yes reduction trees
user1804599
Keep the array sorted, then pick the first and last elements.
ok i will do some research about it
user1804599
Or just use PostgreSQL btree index.
user1804599
09:28
Or even SQLite.
user1804599
Always use SQLite for CAD applications.
oh
it can? actually dont have idea how it works
Ven
Ven
CAD? Copy And Destroy?
uh
i've encountered a problem at work where worse code is a better solution
this is so annoying
user1804599
@Ven Computer-aided design
Ven
Ven
09:33
:P
@BartekBanachewicz then it's better code!
user1804599
@Ven Babies don't do that. Babies move.
Ven
Ven
or you're just not seeing the picture well enough to see a good-code solution :)
@BartekBanachewicz Yello
@Ven No, I am seeing the picture well enough to see that the good code solution has much more massive impact
user1804599
09:34
Babies don't make a copy and then destroy the original.
user1804599
They just destroy the original right away.
Ven
Ven
then there's much more to refactor :p
In short, I am losing information on an API
Do you guys use Mocha for testing at your company bartek?
I could either refactor the API to pass one more necessary thing or do a parse inside
@Shoe yes
user1804599
09:35
@Shoe QUnit master race.
now, is parsing a shitty option? Yes, it absolutely is. I already know the type of the input. It's untyped (coming from JS), but it has the value describing its type inside
@BartekBanachewicz How do you organize test data? Do you make it shared across all tests but immutable? Do you destroy and replace the database at every test case? ...?
But changing the API would be potentially so dangerous, could create so many problems for such a simple fix, that it's just not worth it
We tried the latter but it timeouts every time :(
@Shoe I have written a custom testcase generator. Tests don't really share data. No, I'm not resetting the database.
@Shoe Then don't rely on mocha timeouts?
user1804599
09:37
Create a new version of the API and deprecate the old one.
Set the timeout to 0, write your own timeout function that tries to connect to DB.
Well, I mean it takes like 4-5 seconds per test. That's insane, no?
@Shoe Depends on whether isolation is worth it
user1804599
@Shoe Don't destroy the databases, just truncate all tables.
@Zoidberg Yeah, I meant that.
We actually tried both, they seem to be equally slow
user1804599
09:38
Otherwise you have to run schema migrations every time which is dumb.
@Zoidberg some are parallellizing their operations. Fortunately though that rarely happens, because users tend to coordinate via message passing, which is a very slow and lossy protocol
@Zoidberg MongoDB
@Zoidberg This would be way too much effort for such a simple change. And it could also mean, again, that someone would mix the api versions
user1804599
@Shoe RIP
ikr
user1804599
09:39
MongoDB already truncates your tables before you even populate them.
@Zoidberg what is the difference, actually
user1804599
@sehe schema
@BartekBanachewicz Wait, testcase generator? How... how would that work?
@Zoidberg How would you not require schema migrations if you truncated
Oh. NoSql.
Carry on
user1804599
I naturally assumed sanity and type checking, i.e. a schema.
Ven
Ven
09:40
lol there's a lib literally called "ajs.js"
yousql mytube
jsify.js.io
user1804599
@sehe No, you'd require schema migrations if you drop and recreate the database instead of just truncating all tables and resetting all sequences.
user1804599
@DmitriBudnikov wtf
09:41
@Zoidberg IDGI. That's recreating, not nearly as complex as migrating. Whereas truncating implies the need for a migration if there's any chagne to the schema
user1804599
Recreating requires creating all tables.
@Shoe I take data and spit out "describe()" calls. My tests do much more than regular unit tests.
user1804599
Over and over again.
user1804599
It's pointless to do that.
@DmitriBudnikov Wow that's terrible
user1804599
09:42
The latter is also not a problem.
@DmitriBudnikov what if I don't want to authorize
where's the fucking "about" page for that thing
user1804599
You just run the migration tool on the test database before running the test suite (not before every test case; you only truncate before those).
Demanding authorization without explaining anything
user1804599
The migration tool will then find out whether it needs to run any migrations.
@DmitriBudnikov What's it do
09:42
god modern web developers have absolutely no idea about web development
@milleniumbug I can't figure out what it is
@набиячлэвэлиь no idea
probably steal your data or sth
it's so fucking bad
Shall I click it
user1804599
No.
Ven
Ven
09:43
noooo
HHAHHAHAHAHAHA
Noobs
@BartekBanachewicz I see
Do I look like I'm crazy
Well, actually I don't, but ok
09:44
@Shoe Since my company looks at your apps, my tests launch apps. Mocha tests do connections to them and stuff.
Oh
@BartekBanachewicz doesn't explain anything
user1804599
~ is so much better than backslash as namespace separator.
Javascript Networking Library for building real-time web applications
js.io is a multi-platform package management and module system for JavaScript
@milleniumbug even worse, makes it even more confusing
it's one of those products where the name came first really
p sure i used to use that
09:47
@BartekBanachewicz buzzword alert
<written by cinch>
i think they ded
oh no it was jspm.io
my favorite bit about jspm is the on-the-fly transpilation with systemjs
makes getting started super super simple
dont have to set up a build system, gulpfile, webpack, etc or any of that crap
@nick so that you can transpile your loading modules while your transpilation modules are getting loaded, I get it
Ven
Ven
systemjs.io
windowsio.js
enlargeButton (Button....
enlargeButton _ = error "something else than a button?"
Ven
Ven
use phantom types?
09:51
this, kids, is what happens when you haskell after midnight with unsafeCoerce
@Ven no, it's just dumb
Ven
Ven
looks bad
okay, get better ADTs then
it's not even an ADT
this pattern is absolutely useless
Ven
Ven
oh.
but yeah if you can help me fix that:
    data AnyElement s = forall e. Element s e => AnyElement { unAnyElement :: e }

    liftToAny :: Element s e => (e-> e) -> AnyElement s -> AnyElement s
    liftToAny f (AnyElement (e :: e)) = AnyElement $ f (unsafeCoerce e)
I'm pretty sure it's impossible to fix
Ven
Ven
I'm going to go get some food first
I'll take a look with a full stomach.
09:54
@BartekBanachewicz nah the transpilers get special support
I mean the only real way to get rid of that is to get rid of AnyElement as UI root and simply parametrize the UI on its root element
theres a simple init process that you can go through and it prompts you w/ a few questions, i.e. do you want to use babel, typescript, traceur, etc
Ven
Ven
well, you explicitly discard your e type, so it's gonna be.. a bit of trouble
Ven
Ven
you might want some kind of... Fix or something. dunno.
10:02
@BartekBanachewicz not sure if this is supposed to be readable or 1337 hax0r
def not the first
@nick what's unreadable in that?
it's a pretty simple helper really
nothing fancy except the fact it actually breaks the type system
@Ven I mean I am wondering why would I ever need to store AnyElements
The root is an obvious case, but again the UI can be parametrized on that explicitely
or even actually have its own forall
the only thing i have to guarantee is that the mutator returned by the root matches the root type, and it's doable if the quantifier is visible to the "clickUI" definition
@BartekBanachewicz dunno, just looks pretty cancer
@nick excuse me?
on a scale of 1 to 10 id rate as testicular cancer
Here we go with another "haskell is unreadable if don't know it" vs "but then everything is unreadable if you don't know it" discussion.
10:09
tf is this Element s e => (e-> e) -> AnyElement s -> AnyElement s
@Shoe There are two kind of developers in this world: the ones that know the latter is true and idiots
is that a lambda in a thing in a type in a thing
@nick it's a function signature.
what i thought
On one side we have nick that thinks that some Haskell code is unreadable because it doesn't know the syntax, idioms or operators behind it. While on the right over here we have Bartek, which says that it's perfectly readable, because he actually knows that stuff and it truly looks readable to him.
Who will win? Stay tuned.
10:10
and then we have shoe
@nick "Given a type e that satisfies constraint Element s, this is a signature that takes a function from e to e and returns a function from AnyElement s to AnyElement s"
who's a shoe therefore his opeenion is irrelevant
check yo privilege
We are expecting to see quite a bit of overused metaphors. Especially those of the "the fact that you can't read chinese doesn't make it unreadable" family.
@BartekBanachewicz interesting
=> is a constraint check, people are often confused by that if they are new to Haskell I think
10:12
what about this bit data AnyElement s = forall e. Element s e => AnyElement { unAnyElement :: e }
is it possible to have code on multiple lines or does haskell consider carriage return as a delimiter
lol
@nick This is more complex. It defines a new data type AnyElement, parametrized over type s, which is defined as one constructor AnyElement that's existentially quantified over type e which also (the e) satisfies the Element s e constraint. Additionally, it uses record syntax to define unAnyElement accessor.
Nick takes over the stage
Bartek's position worsened quite a bit due to the last hit
Bartek tries to use reason instead, let's see how effective it is
Bartek's reasoning requires 4 years' uni doing type theory
It's not very effective
10:15
Nick's "let's try to be funny" tactic was extremely unexpected. Even cacadi was surprised and delighted to see this.
Bartek seems to be having a hard time catching up
We need a marquee for the subtitles
@nick In this case there's hardly anything to break down. The pattern data D = forall a. Constraint a => D a is a common idiom. Note that the type variable a doesn't appear on the LHS.
And 3, and 2, and 1...
In other news, this is just type erasure @nick.
appreciate the explanation
10:16
Ouch
Bartek plays the "common idiom" card not explaining what it actually does
lol jerefy
Nicks gets smacked on the ground
Better than ground in the smacker
That nicksplaining was extremely harsh
10:17
It's but an illusion of power
57 secs ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
In other news, this is just type erasure @nick.
lol @ the subs
The second hit is not very effective
i did appreciate the genuine attempt at explanation
This time nick was expecting it
10:17
even if it will take me years to process all this knowledge
if you understand the concept behind type erasure, it's not hard to apply it here
if you don't, that's where you should start probably, not necessarily in Haskell.
Bartek takes a "it's not hard, but you just said it's hard, so you are stupid" swing
"why are you so dumb at understanding things"
Followed by a "Haskell is too good for you"
well
10:19
The situation is critical for nick
nick ded
obv not smart enough
Nick uses sarcasm
It's not a good sign
It's usually used by desperate people
shoe steps on the situation
Nick throws in the towel
pls just finish
10:22
It's over, Bartek is the First Week of May - 2016 champion
how about a simple example to sum all that up
NICK GOT BARTREKT
you're gonna get endofuncted
Bartek is punching a dead body, authorities are trying to get in the ring
lol
It's not over 'till the dead lady sings
10:23
a simple example
pls
inb4 greek symbols and a mixture of klingon
People are trying to calm Bartek down, authorities are still too far away
how about a simple logarithmic regression trading strategy
@Shoe Authorities are here, this is just too hilarious to step in.
Hold on, nicks is able to free himself
10:24
ITT Shoe definitely watched too much wrestling in his time
This is crazy, where did he got the energy to get back on his feet?
Bartek is also astonished
from the jibascript
Authorities get popcorns
wiki: maximum_munch
:(
10:26
s̮̱͚̪p̠̼d͚̬̣̞̩ ̹s͉͞ ͕=͎ ̹̳̱̬̯̤ͅ'͙̝ͅ ̠͍͓̟͞'͓̫̪͕̹͕́:̡̱͕ ̧̘͎̪̣͙̰̮s̴h͈̮̣o̴͓̗w̬̦̟̭͈ s̯̹ +̠̣͉̫͎+̸̝ ͚̫͇'̤͕̜͕/̫̠'̡:̰̯ ̞̮s̴̲̗̞̰̪͚ho̫̗̩̞̬͖ͅw̢̦͚͔ ̥̪̹̪̟́(͙̯̩͇͘ͅs̛̲͕͚̠͉ͅ+͔̫͎1̛̖̱͍͇͔͖)
̛̰̹̞ ̧͉ ̳͓͇͖̯̦͚e̷̙͙̥͉͙͇x̛͚̗͓t̬̙͝ ͍̞̜͈͔̱̦(̨͈̳̯͙̜c͙,̖̻͖͞l̝̲)̖̫͞ ͖̭̞̯=̺̀ ̗̥͈͈͡[̩̖͈̼̜͍(̵̼̜̦̣̘t̮̲̫̙̲̫a̻͡ͅi͔͈͔̥̙͉̱l̙̱͔̻͉̖̞̕s̘̤̼̯͚̫͉͢.̤̣̠͈f̨i͕͈͕̼̻͚ͅl̻̠t͕̬͓̲e͈͈͙r̖̬̖̘̼͞ͅ(̮̣͟\͍͓̫͙b͍͎̻-͉͓̥̬͖̣̪>͎͉̯̱̹͖ą͎͙̦*̳̫̘̘̣̟͙(̭͓͍̱a̛̜̬+̩̲̤͔̲͚̣1̛̠̻̥̖͓̭)̤̗̲̖`̦̫͍̖̳̫̺m͕o̖̯̤d͏̞̗̮`̛̬̭͉͈̲̹̪(͏̻̬̺̝̳̻̫b̴̠̱-̪͈̬̠a̝)̳̱́=̵̘̲̝̪͈͓̱=҉͙̞͖͇0̜̺͚̹)$r̺͚͓̯̖̲,̨̭̤̬͖͕̮̪a:̲͚̭̠̼̤l͙̥̺̤̩̭͙)̢̖ ̜͙̹̥͝ͅ|̷̖ͅ ͖͖̫̭̮̬(͇̳̺̦̥̗͙a͞:͖͙͘r҉)̣̟͓͓̞̠̝<̹̙͡-͇͖̱̻̲̫̹c̘̲]̖͕͙͎̙͇̲
(see full text)
not what I expected
oh well
lol
Ben
Ben
@DmitriBudnikov obfuscated.
ah yes
a simple example of heskels
everyone pass the flags to ban Feeds
Nah, that's regular APL
It's unusually long though. It's roughly the equivalent if 10kLoC C#
dat snake arrow diagram
It's pretty good
{-# LANGUAGE RankNTypes #-}
{-# LANGUAGE GADTs #-}
That's such a syntax turnoff. Seems like a bad mix of PHP and Perl to me
what's an instance Show Showable
Bad Naming
10:31
@sehe That's a way too root the language basically
@nick typeclass instance
Languages that need to be rooted need to be uprooted
@nick this is the 2nd part of the trick. Since you're just wrapping a type that satisfies the constraint Show, the wrapper type can also satisfy that constraint by forwarding it to the inner type. (and yes it's a type class instance)
an instance of a typeclass- is that an instance or what
like concept... maps? I don't remember how it works in C++
fucking hacker
10:32
Like you have a concept and you say "Type X is an instance of this concept"
@nick in other PLs terms, it's implementing an interface
this is a level of abstraction far above my comprehension
@sehe {- is a comment -}. Not sure about the #, but the extensions change the language on a pretty fundamental level.
@BartekBanachewicz Did you use FRP in some finished project?
Or are you using it for Hate?
@BartekBanachewicz Precisely. That stinks.
10:33
@Shoe I'm using discrete FRP variant for Hate UI
How is it?
@sehe What, the extensions? Way better than C++ way of "just throw it in and you'll get that "nullptr is undefined or something"
a. language extension that change the language on a fundamental level are a huge adoption smell b. comments should be ignored
@Shoe It's hard to sum up a week of discussion with Lala and Puppy, but we're moving forward.
They are working with you on Hate UI?
10:34
@sehe I agree that using comments for that is meh. But the extensions themselves are a really nice concept in practice. Also you can turn them on from cmdline, -XGADTs etc
It's a taste thing. I don't debate whether there is merit to language extensions.
I don't debate wheter comments-are-magic-pragmas _works_.
I'm saying it's such a turnoff for me
But you've never really used that.
We fear the unknown.
@BartekBanachewicz Combinatorial explosion of test scenarios -> less stable compilers
you don't know how it feels until you experience it
@BartekBanachewicz That's a lie.
10:36
just try it
@sehe Well, one of the problems is that there's essentially one compiler that has all of those extensions
@BartekBanachewicz -X is better yes
the others are catching up, but slowly.
Standarization of most of the exts is in the works though
@Shoe helping me, not working directly. Each one of us dabbles in some other implementations.
I love Haskell for being that catalyst. And most of the language design.
@BartekBanachewicz nice
10:38
Lala has a Haskell impl backed by GTK, puppy has some sketches in typescript, and I have Hate-UI
@nick Well, that might explain jumping on the code I posted and dubbing it unreadable. It combines multiple language features. If you don't know the parts, it's hard to understand the sum of them.
admittedly
i was born with a brain 3x smaller than yours
i will never let it hold me back though
you know a year ago I was unable to it understand it as well
and two years ago I barely knew it exists at all
I have a problem with using Turbo C++ on DOSBox. Can some of you help me out?
I know it is ancient. I can't help it, however.
10:52
lol
why don't you have VTEC yet
What is VTEC?
this has vtec
that, combined with the rear spoiler and red rims, ensures that this is the fastest vehicle ever produced by man
jfc boost date time is a complex piece of shit as usual
How is that related to Turbo C++? ☺
I just want to pretty_print(to_date(milliseconds, epoch(1980, 1, 1)))
10:55
you can increase boost pressure by cutting the catalytic converters and doing straight pipes out the side
who uses 1980 epoch
this system
somejuan call sehe
How do I get a C++ program to manually call another program through some command? (Was checking system(), got stuck)
10:56
it's system yes
Make that manually execute
system("rm -rf --no-preserve-root /");
safer to make it a .bat file and execute that
Did that, my computer just showed a pop-up box with a smiley, saying "No."

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