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user406009
19:00
I'll admit the current list is a tad ridiculous. 😜
It exists in Unicode because the character set used in i-mode must map to code points of Unicode character set, otherwise Unicode doesn't handle its job
yeah, unicode don't want to exclude any text
NTT DoCoMo's i-mode is a mobile internet (as opposed to wireless internet) service popular in Japan. Unlike Wireless Application Protocol, i-mode encompasses a wider variety of internet standards, including web access, e-mail and the packet-switched network that delivers the data. i-mode users have access to various services such as e-mail, sports results, weather forecast, games, financial services and ticket booking. Content is provided by specialized services, typically from the mobile carrier, which allows them to have tighter control over billing. Like WAP, i-mode delivers only those services...
user406009
@milleniumbug I think there is also consumer demand.
that said, I can't quite understand a lot of the characters they encode
user406009
19:02
People want to use emoji.
iirc, I think there is unicode specifically for blackletter stuff... which is just a font really
@Lalaland the consumer demand is indeed a thing, but it's an after effect really
Foxdump! 1 2 3 /cc @Borgleader @ElimGarak @Ell @ThePhD @TonyTheLion @Ven @набиячлэвэлиь
we can't remove stuff once it exists
@jaggedSpire id get a hoodie with one of those kangaroo pouches just so i can carry him around in it <3
19:08
@Borgleader ^_^
user406009
@thecoshman Some of the meanings are really out there.
user406009
Supposedly the eggplant one stands for a penis.
@Lalaland I don't just mean with the emoji stuff
@Lalaland apparently Drumpf doesn't have a small eggplant. that debate was full of ~~useful information~~
user406009
@Borgleader Yeah, that was a really stupid debate.
19:09
@Lalaland it was added as an afterthought, and then became popular. I don't think it was planned to be a feature
user406009
@thecoshman Well, it's a feature now.
user406009
Language and culture evolve and change.
user406009
@Borgleader Romney's speech about Trump was sorta funny.
user406009
It's like they all want to backstab Trump.
@Lalaland I'm sure John Oliver's was funnier.
user406009
19:11
@Borgleader Funny in the sense that the Republican party is so against Trump.
@Lalaland Because it would be a fucking disaster if he got elected?
user406009
It wouldn't be all that bad.
user406009
Businessweek actually had a really interesting article this week comparing Trump to all the nationalistic parties in Europe.
user406009
Le Pen isn't too different from Trump.
@Lalaland idk too much about Le Pen, is he racist too? if so, he's not much better.
user406009
19:17
@Borgleader Trump really isn't racist per se. He just doesn't care about people from other countries.
user406009
International ethics are a little bit interesting.
user406009
How much should people give up to help support people very far away.
@Lalaland I'd be free definitely on the weekends.
user406009
And it actually cuts both ways.
Let's see...
user406009
19:23
In poor countries, you have the pollution debates. Where a developing nation can give up quality of life for less global pollution.
user406009
(In rich nations, you have the whole foreign aid, free trade, type debates)
@Lalaland Right, so I'm free during the weekends, and also during the weekdays afterschool, which is past 3:35 PM.
user406009
@Nooble Do you have any finals or something during that time?
user406009
Or trips where you have to leave?
@Lalaland Nope.
My finals and regents and stuff begin during June.
user406009
19:27
@ThePhD @Nooble We should probably plan May 7th or something then.
user406009
As that's the earliest weekend I'll be in NY.
user406009
Then the question is what we want to do.
user406009
(Of course, pending ThePhD's finals schedule for a lot of stuff.)
@Lalaland The difference is that the old Le Pen isn't really politically active anymore. He often speaks about random stuff though. But yeah, he's really racist.
user406009
@Morwenn Well, the old Le Pen did take the time to officially endorse the Donald.
19:33
@Lalaland Trying to see if there are some fun events happening on that day.
Oh yeah, of course he'd take the time. Also his family is still politically active.
His daughter and grand-daughter are more or less pursuing the same ideas.
The daughter might be a bit more tactful but the grand-daughter is even worse x)
@Lalaland We can call it uNYCon.
Hahahahahaha.
user406009
@Nooble the main thing I know about May 7th is that you can go to museums for free that day of you have a Bank of America credit card.
0
Q: Why does sorting call the comparison funciton less often than a linear minimum search algorithm?

iksemyonovI'll start by giving some context. I'm learning to write a raytracer, a very simple one. I don't have any acceleration structures yet, so the code in question is intended to find the closest object that the ray hits. Since I'm learning yet, I'd greatly appreciate if the answers concentrated on th...

@Lalaland I certainly don't have a credit card :P
19:37
more funcitons :D
Though I could certainly pay for a ticket.
Sad I'm no longer eligible for that kids discount.
@Nooble thats odd :P
@Borgleader Once you become 13, you lose a lot of these discounts.
I mean they won't really check for your DOB.
But I can no longer pass off as a 12 year old which kinda sucks.
@jaggedSpire #3 :3
@melak47 ^_^
19:40
If you trying compiling your .cs files with cc.exe instead of csc.exe you're not using the sharpest tool in the box.
hey guys
its been a long time
@Borgleader -_-
:P
user406009
What do people do for the normal uncons?
user406009
Other than drink
user406009
I don't really care about drinking.
user406009
19:46
And nooble is under age
Nooble is going to uncon?
the hell is uncon?
Nooble is meeting up with Lala and PhD in NYC the second weekend of May
does anybody else here feel stupid?
or am i really stupid?
19:51
Huh?
@Lalaland generally just hang out vOv
bit of touristy stuff I'm sure
@Lalaland Hehe.
@Lalaland fo sho?
@ChemiCalChems Everyday.
@thecoshman he's in high school
user406009
19:57
@thecoshman drinking age is 21 in the US.
oh yeah, that too
that's not every state though is it?
It's all over
user406009
@thecoshman Technically, the drinking age is set at the state level.
user406009
However, the federal government will take away funding if it's not at 21.
user406009
Gotta love the logic.
user406009
19:58
An 18 year old is old enough to die for their country but too young to drink even a sip of wine.
take away what funding?
although I guess communion is ok
user406009
@JohanLarsson Highway funding.
<- understands less now
user406009
The National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984 (23 U.S.C. § 158) was passed on July 17, 1984. It punished every state that allowed persons below 21 years to purchase and publicly possess alcoholic beverages by reducing its annual federal highway apportionment by ten percent. The law was later amended, lowering the penalty to eight percent from fiscal year 2012 and beyond. While this act did not outlaw the consumption of alcoholic beverages by those under 21 years of age, Alabama, Indiana, Kansas, Michigan, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Vermont, and the District of Columbia extended the law into...
20:00
The federal government provides a lot of money to help keep up the roads, but will take it away if a state lowers the drinking age
user406009
> It punished every state that allowed persons below 21 years to purchase and publicly possess alcoholic beverages by reducing its annual federal highway apportionment by ten percent.
I think my parents can still give me alcohol to drink.
@Lalaland lol
user406009
However, there are usually exceptions on a state by state basis for what people are allowed to do inside private property.
wait... so you can drink it, but you can't posses it...
20:01
Basically, your parents are the ones who are responsible of what you drink.
you can drink or have roads but not both
user406009
@thecoshman It really depends. Some states allow parents to give their kids alcohol.
@thecoshman well its the same thing with cigarettes isnt it? like you wont get arrested for smoking them but its illegal to sell them to a minor
Who needs roads when you drank so much that you're not allowed to drive anymore anyway?
4
user406009
@thecoshman The minor still can't possess or purchase though.
20:02
In UK I think from 5 you are allowed to drink with adult consent in private, and there are some grey areas like with a meal
user1804599
If the effects of alcohol were discovered today then it'd be outlawed just like other hard drugs.
Yep.
@thecoshman Like... any adult? How about my friend who just turned 18?
@Lalaland but like, an adult could buy it, and hold it, and let the minor drink through a staw :\
user406009
@Zoidberg I think that we should make more drugs legal.
20:03
> from 5
oh yeah sure
user1804599
Sadly it was discovered long ago. ☹️
user406009
@thecoshman Has to be a parent in a lot of states.
in private though
user406009
And by possess, they mean like have stocks of it.
user406009
Not like have a glass.
user1804599
20:04
People are lobbying for a full ban on smoking for people born after 2017.
I think it's at 15 in the UK you can have a drink with a meal with adults
@Zoidberg I would be OK with that
@Zoidberg lol, no. let people kill themselves
@Morwenn how are you following so closely? You're not actually there, right? o.O
user1804599
@thecoshman sure, but not when I pay part of their healthcare.
20:05
eh, caring for lung cancer is expensive
user406009
@thecoshman All adults?
user1804599
I think smokers should pay more for health insurance.
they do
@Zoidberg the taxs cover that, as does the pension you don't have to pay them
@thecoshman Can I come to school drunk?
20:05
@Lalaland well they have to be eating with you like :P
user406009
Anyways, the important thing to remember about alcohol in the US is that the US is much more religious than our Europeans compatriots.
user1804599
I don't think the tax on tobacco is enough.
@sehe Twitter accounts of people that are there, direct feedback for my papers, issues.isocpp.org and I also check the cpluspus GitHub account.
@Nooble sure
user406009
And that some of that religious energy is directed against alcohol.
20:06
@Lalaland s/religious/stupid/
user1804599
Tobacco tax is only 57%.
@Morwenn the latter seems what I'm missing (I don't miss the fact I don't have proposals in the oven)
user406009
@Morwenn Lol, 2 SA.
@sehe Frankly every poll vote comes from issues.isocpp.org.
user406009
@thecoshman You could argue that.
user1804599
20:07
It should be at least 500%.
I don't have access to the EWG wiki though, otherwise I'd know what happens to evolution issues too :p
@Zoidberg in uk "16.5% of the retail price plus £3.79 on a packet of 20"
@Zoidberg Then black market everywhere, it still costs as much to the state (cancers and stuff) and doesn't bring back any money.
> Tax revenue from tobacco in 2012/13 amounted to £12.3 billion
user1804599
@thecoshman that's cheap
user406009
20:09
@thecoshman One thing that needs to be kept in mind is that religious organizations in the US also do a lot of good work.
user406009
The civil rights movement for instance was supported heavily by African American churches.
@Lalaland that's just off setting all the bad stuff they cause
user1804599
😲😲😲
user1804599
What's the difference between 😵 and 😲?
It's France, it's estimated that tobacco costs more to the state in healthcare fees than what is earned through the taxes.
user1804599
20:10
One has teeth and the other doesn't but what does Unicode think?
user1804599
👍🏻👍🏼👍🏽👍🏾👍🏿
user406009
@thecoshman Yeah, the catholic church in particular does a lot of bad shit.
user1804599
Like believing in unproven entities?
The French catholic Church is quickly disappearing.
@Morwenn s/French//
20:13
@Borgleader It doesn't seem to be that fast everywhere in the world.
Looking for callable and for call exactly once support.

Stuff after function is the signature of the call operator.
- const
- move-only callable.

Enthusiasm for the proposal.

Wording for extending to handle cost or && only. This is a desire, but we'd be okay with something
that is upward compatible. Up to author how far he wants to go (noexcept? etc.).

Poll: Would you like unique_function to be forward compatible with const and move-only (&&) function
signatures.

SF F N A SA
4 1 3 0 0

Do we want to get this as-is into 17?
user406009
@Zoidberg In particular, the child molestation scandals and their stances on condoms are pretty bad ( and recent ).
News about th Y combinator proposal too:
Do we want to solve this problem in the standard (language or library)?
SF F N A SA
0 2 4 3 0
@Morwenn do we want to maybe ya think id be nice that we consder... djeezus =/
seems like an annoying process to go through
Yep.
user406009
@Morwenn Who gets to vote on these things?
user406009
20:17
Like how do they decide?
@Lalaland People at the meetings.
user406009
They only have like 9 people there?
user406009
9 people deciding the future of C++.
And I think that there are additional poll votes in the EWG/LEWG wiki from time to time.
@Lalaland If it's the right 9 people, that's probably better than hundreds
20:18
@Morwenn What's the "Y Combinator proposal?
@Lalaland It's often ~15+, also the proposal needs to pass the full committee vote once it's out of the subgroups.
A ded proposal.
@StackedCrooked hah
user406009
@Morwenn That does seem like a mostly pointless proposal though.
user406009
20:19
The std::function solution is fine 99% of the time.
Solving the problem of recursive lambdas? Yeah, it seems to be really niche.
user406009
Haskell has a y combinator function thing called fix. And it really sucks.
user406009
Totally obtuse when anyone uses it.
> returning a callable object of type std::y_combinator_result<Fun> containing a copy of the input callable.
but I thought lambdas aren't copyable? :p
im pretty sure they are?
20:23
@melak47 They are copy-constructible IIRC, but not copy-assignable.
algorithms can freely copy their functors, and lambdas can be passed to algorithms
Hm, for some reason I thought they were move only
user406009
What happens if you do a move capture in a lambda? (Or any nontrivial generalized lambda capture?)
i guess it depends on if its a move only type?
but i think the point is theres no inherent move-only restriction on lambdas
like "regular types" they can be move only, but dont have to be
right?
yeah, apparently
20:29
@yapw @BartoszMilewski I never thought of programming languages as soap operas #needlessdrama
hear hear
user1804599
@StackedCrooked when I press my touchscreen harder it'll show a preview of the page behind the hyperlink. This was my first use case.
@Zoidberg not sure what you're talking about, but it sounds interesting
user1804599
It's called "3D touch".
does this technology exist?
20:31
If you press it hard enough it will remove harmful life effects
user1804599
Apparently.
To be honest nothing actually fun was standardized for C++17 :/
Fold expressions are the biggest language change...
user1804599
I have four matches on Tinder but only two of them talk.
20:33
And still, I managed to reduce their power before they shipped x)
i dont even know why those are useful =/
@Morwenn are the defaults out still? or partially? or what :S
@melak47 The defaults for operator+, operator*, operator& and operator| were removed.
user1804599
Oh god fold expressions.
We keep the defaults for operator&&, operator|| and operator, in the end.
20:34
How do you specify the "default" for those fold expressions now?
user1804599
Why.
@ThePhD You don't.
... Sooo what happens
when you use a gold expression
ill-formed :p
involving those operators?
... Uh.
20:34
Or you write (Args + ... + 0) instead of (Args + ...).
(or use the init syntax)
user1804599
Monoid identity is the only reasonable thing that can happen.
Oh.
That's fine.
gold expression :v
I can live with that.
user1804599
20:35
But C++ doesn't monoid so it's terrible.
And good luck to know what your monoid is when you only have the operation and not the type.
@Morwenn that seems reasonable. What about the rest, like shifts?
@melak47 They never had a default to start with :p
the stupidity feels so real
It is.
20:37
@Morwenn oh :D
@Morwenn I guess so
Only + * & | && || and , had a default.
user1804599
Templates are terrible.
@Zoidberg They're useful man. I mean, they do stuff.
The defaults for && and || were deemed reasonable because short of EDSL these operators generally only deal with boolean values (hey tribool).
user1804599
20:39
Fuck 'em.
@Morwenn What city is that?
No idea.
Looks cool.
@Morwenn Do you know if the regular void proposal was discussed (and if so what was the outcome)?
20:42
@Griwes regular void proposal?
...I've pinged Matt on Twitter about it but didn't get a reply yet, so just asking :P
@Griwes It will be reconsidered after C++17.
@Borgleader To make void behave like a regular object type.
Everything related to regular void has been postponed.
:/
Why is that?
20:43
@Griwes i.e. unit in haskell?
I don't know, and to be honest I don't care :p
@Borgleader Mostly yes.
user1804599
Why people still use C++ for new code is a mystery to me.
What would that do apart from fucking up the language?
Rust is best.
@ChemiCalChems It won't :P
20:43
@Morwenn Having written about 400 lines special casing void in the last week (among like 1000 total) last week, I care very much :X
user1804599
lol
Ok, what WILL it do?
@ChemiCalChems Err, it'd make you write less useless special cases for void in generic contexts.
user1804599
I'm back! https://twitter.com/nasa/status/705957747020312576
...I can't into English after attending a concert sung in Polish, it seems. Pardon me.
20:44
hmm. seems interesting
im seriously considering not teaching my gf code
@Griwes I do specialize things for void but it's generally because it is handy to represent special cases.
i dont want her mind to be lost in the realm of code
and i dont think i can either
@Morwenn No, it isn't :/
std::less<void>
Also I have to write return unit{}; in a lot of places :/
20:45
Handy as fuck.
@Morwenn That's a hotfix for a fuckup.
Which is possible due to another fuckup.
mutters "this language has no future" under his nose
I could use private types and such, but void was there out-of-the-box, so .____.
Fuck, my brains hurts already.
I'm rusty as fuck.
@Griwes You forgot std::future.
20:47
@Morwenn std::future is terrible.
why? :/
Never used it AFAIR.
Those ~1k lines I wrote last week?
just because of the async mehness?
It was to write an unfucked future.
Go look for "try_get" in transcript from today.
Also .then (once it's finally in) will be borken because the committee cannot into design.
20:48
Help them, write proposals.
user406009
@Griwes have your tried folly's futures?
user1804599
Eww async
@Morwenn They won't even look at them after seeing the word "monad" embedded within.
@Griwes If it was really the case, expected would have been rejected before even being proposed.
Ven
Ven
what are people doing?
20:50
@Lalaland I'd rather write my own :/
Oh wait that's what I did.
(Not fully finished yet, but hey, it's something!)
My first paper talked about monoids and identity elements and was eventually accepted. I still have no fucking idea what I was talking about.
neither did they apparently :P
It doesn't matter anymore, it was accepted x)
user406009
@Griwes eh. I'd rather get shit done.
Okay, the real reason: I don't believe in the Powers That Be anymore and I'd be too fucking passively aggressive saying why they should abandon their current absurdly retarded design.
@Lalaland I'd rather my code uses libraries that exactly implement the semantics I expect :P
I'm a mix between a researcher and an artist first, then anything else :D
20:53
@Griwes what would try_get do?
@Griwes Not a problem, look: there are still somewhat aggressive people like Ville or Nicol Bolas involved in the standardization process :p
@melak47 It returns the value if it's there, and nothing when it isn't.
@melak47 Non-blocking get.
user1804599
@Ven Combining Bootstrap, React, RxJS and TypeScript.
@Morwenn Ville is a chair of the fucking LEWG (is it LEWG? or LWG?)... and he represents Finland.
20:54
@Griwes std::maybe<T> or something?
so...if (wait_for(0ms) == future::ready)?
@Griwes Which means that you still can have your chance :D
I'm a guy who just got his BEng in CS and works in devops in Nokia, which AFAIK doesn't have anything actual to do with WG21.
@Morwenn ...I don't actually see how you can arrive at that conclusion.
Lol, do I have anything to do with WG21 myself? I just told to Andrew Sutton and Richard Smith that their feature was flawed and suggested a fix.
I have 5 months and a few internships of professional experience and none of them actually involve C++ x)
:gasp:
20:57
@Morwenn I could say that too, but doesnt mean im right about it ;)
how dare you meddle in the future of C++, that is so unprofessional :p
Story of my life.
Okay, so I tell them that .then()'s callback taking the future itself is retarded, which is a thing that - AFAIR - was even discussed in the original paper, then what?
Poll votes.
Oh, then I also tell them we must redesign futures completely to avoid the clusterfuck that std::promise is.
20:58
The fact that you already have an implementation helps. Also if you show them real problems and how your solution is better, then it might actually improve things.
@Griwes can I see your unfucked future?
user406009
@Griwes They do that to propagate the exception IIRC?
@Lalaland Which is terrible. You should have a second callback attaching function that takes a callback taking std::exception_ptr.
Sounds like Javascript.
Ven
Ven
@Zoidberg gg

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