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00:00
@LucDanton I didn't even know &foo::overloaded_member was a legal expression at all without the cast
@DeadMG It's the same mechanics that makes Alias<Ret (Foo::*)(Arg)> pointer = &foo::member; valid.
I.e. I have to do some magic so that the parameter of mem_fn<Signature> is Signature Class::*.
Xeo
Xeo
@DeadMG The context makes it work
Pointer to overloaded member is one of those instances where perfect forwarding fails btw.
I just realised that naming my 'dummy' type for deduction deduced is extremely misleading.
dummy_type_for_deduction?
template<typename T = deduced, typename = EnableIf<std::is_same<T, deduced>> blahblah is the overload that is picked when T is not 'deduced'.
Fuck, my head hurts after saying that. Disregard what I said, I'm going to lie down for a few minutes.
00:39
I hate my coworkers. If I have to work with Java couldn't they have at least followed Java idioms?
@Luc I suppose your max and min functions were never tested, right? max is calling min (possible copy&paste-gone-wrong), and min(10, 20, 5) == 10.
This code works with four types of messages, all of which inherit from IDataStoreItem. IDataStoreItem of course, has no member functions, despite the fact that all the derived classes have the same member functions. So I have to write a seperate function for each derived type. Gah.
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, I used to have metafunctions and in a desperate bid to cajole GCC I hacked those functions in. I may go back to the metafunctions, I'm not sure.
@MooingDuck What use is an interface without methods?
(I'm assuming IDataStoreItem is an interface, but that's due to a .NET naming convention)
@RMartinhoFernandes it is an interface, but it only holds public static final String things. Using String for all data types is it's own rant.
00:44
@LucDanton I noticed you have template<typename T> using Identity = typename identity<T>::type;. When I wrote this in my code, I couldn't think of an actual use for it. While writing the previous message I remembered it works well as a type deduction inhibitor.
user868935
can anyone help me building a simple gui for a win32 project? info on the web is scarce.
@RMartinhoFernandes So is that preemptive rubber ducking or what?
@チョコレート人 use the forms builder that comes with visual studio
Help, GCC is freaking out.
> sorry, unimplemented: use of 'type_pack_expansion' in template
@RMartinhoFernandes What kind of mess up?
00:52
template <typename... T> // line A
struct storage_for : aligned_union<1, T...> {};
template <typename T> // line B
struct storage_for : std::aligned_storage<sizeof(T), alignof(T)> {};
// line A: error: template parameter 'class ... T'
// line B: error: redeclared here as 'class T'
I do run into some issues regarding min/max and Min/Max and I think I can safely pinpoint them to aliases once again. I'll be sticking with those constexpr functions for the time being.
@RMartinhoFernandes storage_for<T>, line B.
@LucDanton After you fix them, I hope.
@LucDanton Damn, I really need to sleep.
@RMartinhoFernandes Yes, I was investigating while patching.
Overgrowth looks awesome.
@RMartinhoFernandes (also: what good indeed?)
00:57
@MooingDuck Well, sometimes those are marker interfaces used to say that some type has some property. Serializable is one example from the standard library (not a good one, tbh). But most of the time they're just markers of bad designs.
yeah, those biznatches should just implement via template
oh, wait, and first, they should get templates
@RMartinhoFernandes I've learned a lot about bad designs with this Java code.
@MooingDuck It's Java code. What were you expecting?
Btw, if the derived classes have the same functions, why don't you just put the functions in the interface?
@DeadMG I was hoping for at least Java idioms...'
01:02
@RMartinhoFernandes That would make it - shudder - an abstract class!
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, I'm making widespread changes, mostly rewriting everything I see. My boss is unhappy that I'm well over my ETA and less than 40% done
@DeadMG the only members are static, I think it's still an interface in that case
@DeadMG Well, an empty abstract class, which is what it is right now, is worthless.
true true
hmm
to expend £60 and obtain Mythical Man-Month, Peopleware, Pragmatic Programmer, and Code Complete?
Dammit, why don't you islanders use euros?
70€ for all that?
Sounds cheap.
yeah
I finally remembered that Amazon will ship them digitally and I don't have to go through the whole "Oh I missed delivery" BS
01:05
Oh, it's ebooks? That sounds even cheaper!
;)
yes, I picked the e-book edition
why read only one book at once when I can probably read all four due to my pair of gigantic balls screens?
Erm.
Do I need to answer that?
anyone know how to use perforce? I have to learn to use it.
lol
Party A: Unsubstantiated, far-reaching conclusion.
Party B: Accusation of technical ignorance on part of Party A.
Party A: Accusation of homosexuality on part of Party B.
Party B: Declaration of victory.
2
user868935
01:08
does anyone know how to make a listbox within a window?
right
there's sixty quid down the drain for a bunch of stuff
@チョコレート人 What library/API?
lol code complete
"After you have read Introduction to Java, Advanced Java, and Advanced Advanced Java"
Java has enough complex topics to merit even a single "Advanced Java" book?
Yeah, that was an obvious joke. You were faster :(
lol
user868935
Bakuren vhu ni kaarash...
01:44
Ah, mem_fn<void()>(&foo::overloaded) doesn't appear to be possible to do.
Doesn't deduce the foo part?
Ah well, mem_fn<void(Foo::*)()>(&foo::overloaded) is still better than a cast.
I'm off to sleep. Good night.
01:46
Uh wait, didn't I do just that with make_overload? Let me check.
02:25
@RMartinhoFernandes It can in fact be deduced. Had to make several attempts to understand what's going on, apparently GCC has some quirks in this respect.
@DeadMG hahahah
03:08
Pasta?
 
2 hours later…
user868935
05:35
@ScottW do you know of any RAD plugins for VS2010?
07:23
@ScottW someone called? Those Europeans are late anyways. And I'm afk going to work :)
lol
I'm almost always here at this time. I just lurk...
i was about to say "but sehe's always awake"
and sure enough..
@je4d Hmmm. I slept in today :) And I went to bed early (0:30am). I had finished my project on time (and within the ahem... extended budget) so I'm under less of a crunch.
Anyways, off to work, I'll be 'lurking' as @Mysticial calls it :)
@sehe cya
07:26
cya
I'll be off soon too, but I can't lurk from work
actually, I can.. but i'm forced to lurk, i can't log in
@je4d How does that happen? They block your open-ID provider?
@sehe To be honest I haven't actually tried
:)
but if it did work, i could basically be fired for using unapproved external comms
so I don't even try to log in to SO
I was surprised that it wasn't already blocked
07:29
@je4d Can't log on from work? What kind of BS policy is this? This is SO, this isn't some porn site.
@Mysticial there are laws in my business regarding logging and auditing all communications from the company
@je4d Some classified government job?
@Mysticial I'd tell you, but I'd have to kill you ;-)
@je4d I'll take that as a yes. :)
Nah, it's nothing as cool as that :-/
07:32
While I was at MS, they were completely cool with people going on Facebook, and chatrooms and such... One guy even had a TV in his office...
I used to be able to get to facebook, back when it was simpler - they just selectively blocked the messages bit
But it's been a full ban since they introduced facebook chat
That's a pretty harsh policy. I can't concentrate without my distractions...
haha
More like that's what I've become accustomed to after a few years of college.
@Mysticial Oh, here even sites like pastebin are blocked. I'm actually surprised SO chat is till open.
Most likely legal doesn't know it yet :p
07:38
I find myself much more productive in my dorm room than my office - mainly because I have twice as many monitors and I can blast music and have Anime in the background.
@KillianDS I expect my firm's the same... I'm just hoping that when they find it, they don't block SO outright
While I was at MS, I couldn't use FTP or Firefox (what a surprise!). But I did manage to setup a virtual network between work and my apartment.
gmail and gchat = no problem while I was as MS
They didn't have the balls to block gmail or google at MS.
@Mysticial Oh we can do that too, it's even not that hard, but it's against company rules. If I log in over VPN with my ubuntu desktop from home to read my e-mails I even violate IT-policy (windows is fine however...).
I never read anything that we weren't allowed to use FTP or Firefox. But all FTP connections timed out. And Firefox was never able to recognize the company's network connection.
So it could just be a technical problem.
sbi
sbi
07:58
http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2012/03/reputation-and-historical-archives/ <-- Seems as reasonable a compromise that's going to be reached here. Now if only comments stopped getting all nuked...
It seems the greatest uproar I have seen on meta since the removal of the envelope icon was resolved not by stomping on the discussions, but by finding a compromise.
Sounds pretty good to me.
I'd say it's a win for the inclusionists.
At least that's what it looks like to me.
I wasn't around during the early days so I've never had anything big deleted.
sbi
sbi
@Mysticial I'd say it's a big win for both sides. Most of the deletionists didn't want to delete just for the sake of deleting, they had a reason to do so. (That would be the "Broken Window" argument.) This solution addresses those arguments while preventing further deletions.
@ScottW I think you need 10k for them to be links.
sbi
sbi
@ScottW There's a comment further down saying they are currently rolling it out. Maybe it's that?
@sbi Agreed, although I think the new lockdown policy is (to one person on meta) - exactly "Framed Garbage". lol
08:10
@sbi only thing that concerns me is that to me this was never really a question of mechanics, but of bad guidelines and a sick culture. As long as people want to delete anything they can lay their grubby paws on, they're going to find a way to do it
I like how they vote buttons are taken off of the locked questions.
sbi
sbi
@jalf This is one of the differences between your opinion and mine: I still believe that most meta users do not want to delete for the sake of deleting. Sooth their fears, and they'll stop wanting to delete.
@sbi Maybe, maybe not. But then it's tempting to say that it's just a matter of time. I you marinate in a culture in which deletionism is the only right thing, then it's going to rub off sooner or later
But even if you're right, it doesn't necessarily matter what most meta users want, as long as a big enough critical mass want to delete
but apart from that, the blog post sounds very reasonable
sbi
sbi
@jalf Of course. Note that I didn't say "none of them thinks so".
@jalf Honestly, I think @sbi is right. While you have the 'framed garbage' extremist (there are always extremists), this seems like a nice compromise for the general part of the community (both pro- and contra-deletion).
sbi
sbi
08:16
> Honestly, I think @sbi is right.
Let's frame that, shall we? :)
@KillianDS Oh sure, I'm not objecting to the blog post. I'm just saying that for whatever reason, meta has a sick culture, and I'm not sure simply changing the mechanics of how questions are deleted and how rep is shown, is going to fix that
sbi
sbi
@sehe Thank you!
@sbi Anytime :)
@sbi does that make it "framed garbage"? ;)
lol loL
08:19
Meta's new meme: "Framed Garbage - use however you see fit"
Looks like they haven't fully implemented the last point yet. The historic locked questions are still showing up in the question lists and searches.
sbi
sbi
@jalf But there was more to this than a simple change of mechanics.
If this had gone the way Jeff used to handle these things, he would have posted a wildly unpopular answer saying "It's been that way all the time, you just didn't see it, broken windows, blahblah, shut up and go back creating rep", which would have been downvoted into oblivion, and then he would have had stomped with an iron boot heel on any dissenting view daring to raise its head.
Instead, we have had a very long and very heated discussion on meta, some level heads (not me and you, mind you) proposing a compromise, and the SO team implementing it. I see a major imrpovement there.
@jalf Not everything that's framed is garbage.
@sbi sure, that's true
and definitely a promising sign
Morning all
o_0
sbi
sbi
@jalf Yep. I said so in a comment to the blog post, but it seems they have me on the strictly moderated list. :) At least, it doesn't show up, yet when I try to post it again it says I already said that.
but... I'm so important every one must be on my sleep schedule
08:29
This answer here:
24
A: Community-led deletionism: a protocol for sanity

DCI NinefingersIt's no wonder people are capable of war when they get this nasty about a few lost virtual non-existent points on the internet. Here's my take: Half the problem here is that mega upvoted questions can only be deleted by moderators. On that particular example, I counted elsewhere that it would ...

6 points - each of them is half the problem
@Mysticial it's a big problem clearly
sbi
sbi
@thecoshman LOL!
And Lounge<C++> is "half the problem".
lol
sbi
sbi
Have you seen my comment to that, @Mysticial?
@sbi Now I do! nice.
@sbi Would've been even better if you had links to all those conversations. Would've been a bitch looking for them though.
08:32
I normally wouldn't have noticed at all that I lost rep, if it wasn't because I'd just crossed 90k which was kind of a milestone, and suddenly I was back down to 89. Most of the time, you could take 1k rep away from me without me noticing at all. :)
@ScottW if I could, np :)
/thecoshman tries to take rep of @jalf
sbi
sbi
@Mysticial Would have been a bitch for me, too. Plus there's only 600 chars for a comment, and most of the time I have to fight really hard to squeeze my opinions into such a limited space anyway. (I bet that comment has 598 chars or something like that.)
@ScottW I'm a C++ programmer. I expect the API to take care of that.
oh for sure :P
@ScottW What does that do?
@Mysticial its from the 'old days' when using a char* rather then a string class.it signified the end of a string
sbi
sbi
08:38
> Apparently, the C++ chat room also rules Twitter, where SO users were all up and in arms about this, too. (And got calm again since Shog's blog posting.) Yeah, it's a very good feeling to be that influential! — sbi
\0 being one special character
sbi
sbi
@ScottW I think you'll have to put that into backticks, or the system will escape it.
he he he
It's like my job :P
well... not that much, but still
lol lol lol
09:00
@ScottW I've done that before. It's called loop-unrolling. :)
@Mysticial which, if I am not mistaken, is something you do not want to do that often, as in let the compiler do it :P
@thecoshman When I unroll loops, I often combine it with manual vectorization. (if applicable) Heck, if you're gonna micro-optimize something that matters, might as well go all the way.
@Mysticial indeed
there's no point half heartedly wasting time :P
@ScottW sounds like 90% of our codebase :(
I do it for a living - literally.
09:08
o_0 I swear I just heard a cat meow
So, I have to figure out what kind of tax forms I need to fill up and whatever else needs to be done so I'm not flouting Portuguese law. Who wants to bet I won't be able to obtain that information from the Internet and will have to go ask it to some clerk somewhere?
oh man, reminds me, I STILL need to sort out student loan repayments ¬_¬
sbi
sbi
Damn. I had a hard time falling asleep last night, had the small one wake me at 2am with an earache that plagued her (and me) for the rest of the night, and have just read through dozens of comment threads on meta. The result is, of course, that now I have to fight very hard to not to have those key-shaped impressions on my forehead by lunchtime.
That's easy. Take your keyboard away and do mouse-only browsing. ;)
09:53
@sbi poor you
I get tired just helping my mum look after relations kids for a day
What are "relations kids"?
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I suppose he's talking about the kids from relatives?
@sbi Indeed I am
Is "relations kids" a correct phrase then? (Just asking so I'll know if I can or can't use it)
09:58
Hehe, I get tired at weekends because of kids. Going to work on Monday is actually like taking a rest.
well, it would need to be "relations' kids", and kids is sort of a slang world
I like that @Sbi is seemingly fluent in, what I like to call, "Danglish"
sbi
sbi
Wonder what I should do with the depression that's slowly forming on my desk in the shape of my head.
Took me a while to dig this out.
@sbi Complain to management that your desk is not ergonomic enough and you're just trying to fix it!
Make them be the offender!
sbi
sbi
@wilx I never wanted to be one of those weekend dads. I have always spend a lot of time with my kids, bringing them to and picking them up from kindergarten and school, taking them to the doc's — the whole enchilada.
@ScottW You want GCC to take you to the doctor?
@sbi mmmm enchiladas
10:09
@ScottW That's sexist.
@RMartinhoFernandes how so?
Compilers are female.
@RMartinhoFernandes THAT's sexist :P
@sbi Try again.
sbi
sbi
10:10
@RMartinhoFernandes You mean they are bitches?
@thecoshman Yes, I was going for reductio ad absurdum.
@sbi it never worked first time
@RMartinhoFernandes yes 0_0
sbi
sbi
@thecoshman It didn't even work the second time either.
@sbi: Well, I have to go to work. I see them in the evenings but that's like 3 hours a day.
@sbi You know what happens if my mouse is hovering over your message and then you change it to refer to some other message?
Chat breaks!
10:12
he broke it
I have to refresh, or the message it referred to before will be grayed out forever!
@RMartinhoFernandes feature :P
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, I know that. It's an insect.
sbi
sbi
@wilx Except for a few years when I was in bad financial trouble, I never worked for more than 30hrs/week. Currently I spread them over 4days/week. That leaves some time to spend with the kids.
@TonyTheLion Indeed, I forgot to mention the kind of insect I was referring to.
10:17
Heh, nice.
damn you and your images ¬_¬
sbi
sbi
@ScottW Yeah, you Merkins don't know how to throw a party.
we Europeans are just far better at partying :P
sbi
sbi
10:23
@ScottW And why would they be here? There's no fun to be had without us. :)
I'm here :P
this should be good enough
haha
sbi
sbi
@ScottW You just hadn't understood how this room works, that's all.
@TonyTheLion You weren't when he complained, though.
> On the other hand, mutex and semaphores are not meant to block threads to wait for others to complete a task, they are meant to share access to resources.
does that sound correct?
thinking about it, I guess one should use a manual or autoresetevent
10:28
> Commandment 3. Thou shalt use monitors and condition variables instead of semaphores whenever possible.
to wait for another thread
@TonyTheLion Yes, that sounds correct.
@RMartinhoFernandes oh, where does that come from?
condition variables make my head hurt
10:29
oh gawd, I posted it
I obviously didn't read it :(
lol
> Commandment 2. Thou shalt not violate the abstraction boundaries provided by synchronization primitives, nor shalt thou try to change the semantics of well-established synchronization primitives, and thou shall look with disdain upon he who does.
This seems relevant too.
do you have this paper bookmarked?
or how the heck did you remember that I posted it?
@TonyTheLion In a way I have: I know that chat-searching for "commandments" yields it.
Call it a mental bookmark.
hah, but you surely read the paper then?
10:32
heh, that's the difference
sbi
sbi
@TonyTheLion There is a reason, you know, he got the reputation to be a robot.
Has anyone not yet seen the dog that has the blues?
2
@sbi oh yea, forgot
@sbi hilarious :)
sbi
sbi
Anyway, after all that procrastination this morning I will have to do some work now, being tired or not. I need to leave early today, because I need to pack for my flight to London tomorrow morning.
@jalf Why is that?
> "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1"
10:39
@RMartinhoFernandes because they're easy to get wrong and it's kind of hard to form an intuitive and correct understanding of them
@TonyTheLion That's not new at all, you know?
huh... I'm starting to get the feeling that I am not a 'team' worker
every email I receive from my 'team' is always opened with a sense of 'here we go again'
@RMartinhoFernandes I'd never heard of it, so it's new to me
It's was actually invoked here yesterday.
@thecoshman Maybe your team isn't a "thecoshman" worker?
10:44
@RMartinhoFernandes Doesn't help that the my team is based in India
What's the problem with that?
only get half a day of actually being able to work with them
communication is slow
and as you may have discovered, I am not the best at writing what I am trying to write
What, your Indian colleagues write perfect English?
2
Q: Why SFINAE gets messed up when changing the place of the class template specialization? Is this a C++ bug?

iammilindFollowing code gives compiler error which is expected (Demo): 1 template<bool> struct Range; 2 3 template<int value, typename = Range<true> > struct Unique; 4 template<int value> struct Unique<value, Range<(value > 1)> > { typedef char type[1]; }; ...

Interesting.
@RMartinhoFernandes pretty good to be fair
to the odd things is a bit... derpy, but no worse then me for the most part :P
@RMartinhoFernandes sure?
10:51
sometimes people on SO make me feel like I'm just plain stupid
sbi
sbi
40 mins ago, by sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes You mean they are bitches?
@TonyTheLion If this happens only sometimes, we got to work on it harder.
@sbi oh, so you want me to feel stupid more often? :P
sbi
sbi
@TonyTheLion Will you stop plinking me, I need to work!
@sbi yea right
sbi
sbi
10:54
@TonyTheLion Oy!
lol
TURN OFF YOUR PLINKS THEN
@TonyTheLion But then he won't be warned when someone plinks him with important messages!
what in this room could be so important it can't wait until the evening?
@sbi he he, that looks like a cross between fast food, french food art and mexican goodies
he just got plinked again :P
sbi
sbi
10:55
Sigh.
It is tempting to keep plinkng Sbi :P
@thecoshman I know, trying hard to restrain from doing so here
@TonyTheLion must... not... plink... @Sbi
oh whoops :P
I'll leave him be now, promise :P
he will be pissed
@RMartinhoFernandes why did you put a link that mentions TVTropes.org ???
sbi
sbi
And the oldest and strongest kind of fear of the unknown is fear of that which is probably an angry gorilla.
lol
how to piss off an ape in one step: PLINK ALL THE TIMES

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