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23:00
@sehe You're just not a "quick look" kind of guy.
you know what Jerry
I suppose. I'm afraid my new employer will have to put up with me
your jokes bore me
fuck you
I am officially returning fire
user406009
@JerryCoffin Wait, that's supposed to be impossible.
now who's sitting down
23:01
@Lalaland lol
well, I guess I am sitting in the second picture.
Ho ho local newspaper apparently wants to write about my glorious company
So fame
@Borgleader Sup. :D
anyway, you should know that one of the things I always bring back from the swamp is additional ammunition, that I take with my potato
and I'll be firing it at you the moment I get back
speaking of which, I need to pack
In other news, Skazi's latest album is cool.
23:04
Speaking of pictures, I got an early Christmas present from one of my friends :)
@Lalaland Quite a few of us compared pay stubs to be sure, and some of them were definitely smaller afterwards than before, with no other changes apparent. Maybe when they filed their income tax forms they were refunded the difference (or maybe even a bit more) though--pretty sure none of us spent time comparing those.
user406009
@JerryCoffin My guess is that they increased your automatic tax withholding.
@user3886129 You gonna get raped when you fall asleep, bby ahaha
@Lalaland Could be--like I said, at least to my recollection, we only compared pay stubs, not results at the end of the tax year.
user406009
IIRC, the only way you end up with less net money because of higher income is due to losing benefits.
user406009
23:10
Stuff like Medicaid and housing assistance are worth quite a bit of money.
user406009
In many cases, a lot more than minimum wage.
user406009
Dealing with welfare traps like that is quite difficult.
@ElimGarak lol wut
@user3886129 Look at its thirsty expression :P
@ElimGarak Worry not, it's only around 6 inches in height.
23:12
@user3886129 I know, I have one, too. That exact model in fact.
@ElimGarak :D
@Lalaland Keep in mind, however, that this was the military--many of the normal rules don't apply. Not saying you're wrong, only that I'm left with less certainty than I'd have otherwise.
@Puppy repost
@Puppy repost as well
Bartek wants Puppy to kick him today :D
If you have a million loan, a 1% interest raise can easily translate into 10,000 extra cost a year.
Both monetary policies (by central banks) and fiscal policies (by your government) can affect whether your money goes to someone else or someone else money goes to you. Yet, we need the improvement of productivity (and elimination of useless jobs IMHO) in order to ensure more resources for everyone. But people seem less interested in making this happen than how to allocate existing resources.
23:24
am I retarded or checking for "not found" after having called std::find with a std::reverse_iterator is strange as fuck
@CatPlusPlus Isn't that the noobish mode
and nobody here likes it
Not really
@ScarletAmaranth ?
Dec 5 '12 at 21:09, by Cat Plus Plus
Don't use immediate mode seriously.
@cv_and_he Oh I still forgot, lemme compare. Wow! It's as fast as the manually coded one (code). I was soooo close - thanks for fixing it using the eoi :) — sehe 3 mins ago
scary shit. People actually pay attention to that stream
@milleniumbug well it returns an iterator based on what the input iterator was, so you can't check for std::end(...) anymore on failiure
23:27
ah, yeah
@ElimGarak pls no raep jokez
I managed to reimplement the Ford-Johnson algorithm for a collection of size 6, but that algorithm would be sooooo much simpler to reimplement by relinking list nodes.
can't you assign an reverse end iterator beforehand to an end variable and compare it with that
yeah I mean I can solve it, I am just complaining it's behaving in an unintuitive way (to me)
well, I don't like iterator pairs for a reason
23:28
also it has discovered a "bug" in my generic implementation of the said check :-\ (luckily a compile-time failure)
yeah well ranges will fix shit
I don't see what's wrong with immediate mode GUIs though
@ElimGarak On second thought... maybe the raep jokez were less sexist o.O :)
It seems to be a simple, non-intrusive way to introduce GUI in an existing product
@milleniumbug except when the existing product is a purely functional system, as it seems
I don't see what's wrong with defining GUIs visually and then generating the implementation without my intervention
I kinda like WPF - I drag shit and I double click shit to add behaviour and I'm done vOv
23:33
You need to create an editor for that
sure, but it's fairly pleasant to work with once it's done
@BartekBanachewicz Dunno how you do GUIs in functional way.
I need UI not more comples than this
@milleniumbug don't worry, functional guys don't know either
you of course use the haskell wxWidgets ^^
23:35
it's one of the topics of modern research
WPF is merely a tip of the iceberg
last time this conversation happened an acronym FRP got mentioned
FRP is overcomplicated and noone seems to know what it means and how to use it
Write a Haskell QML parser and you're done.
@Morwenn No, not by a long shot. You need to render it and you need to get events.
@ThePhD kinky
23:36
Parsing interface definitions is as far from done as I can imagine.
@BartekBanachewicz Use another language then?
@milleniumbug I'm seeing more and more haskell engines deliberately mentioning they are "Not-FRP" and this kinda hints at something
@Morwenn Why would I? I can do everything else just fine in Haskell.
It's the only thing that's somewhat problematic.
> else
@Morwenn If I used any other language I'd lose at all other areas.
@BartekBanachewicz you can also cross the language boundary
23:37
I don't know, I switch to Python when I need to write a GUI.
@ScarletAmaranth not worth the effort imho
@Morwenn what library do you use?
last time I did GUI in Python I used tkinter and it was terrible
@milleniumbug PyQt
I never even considered trying to use tkinter .____.
@BartekBanachewicz I was thinking of doing this for one of me haskell stuff: hijack a visual editor (wpf) -> make pretty UI -> steal the generated code -> parse and synthesize code for <my target Haskell UI library> -> profit???
@milleniumbug I've used that, too. so pretty :D
23:40
@BartekBanachewicz but then I didn't do it because I almost never do GUIs and ~~effort~~
@ScarletAmaranth it's a tremendous effort
@milleniumbug better than nothing and it works.
it's comparable to what cat proposed back in the day, namely grabbing WebKit and overlaying it
but the sheer size of WebKit should hint at how complex the task is
@Abyx well, being included in the standard library is indeed an advantage
@BartekBanachewicz less effort than making a visual editor anew tho; and the VS with WPF is powerful - and I could also just write transformations for widgets I'd use
23:41
I don't care about visual editors frankly
but then again I have better things to do with my time than writing GUIs
well I can't be assed typing coordinates by hand while making a gui :-\
@milleniumbug Not enough of an advantage for me to use it :p
well then, are there any papers beyond the Adobe one on designing gui systems
@ScarletAmaranth autolayout or bust
23:42
but a.) it's so unpythonic b.) GUIs created in it look like an abandoned student projects c.) some API calls are so annoying
@BartekBanachewicz whenever I need a GUI (mostly uni stuff), I go for C# + WPF and cook something actually reasonably looking in minutes
yes, Scarlet, I get it
WPF got thousands of manhours put into it
if not hundreds of thousands
hijacking it would therefore be worth it
the source is messy
but yeah ok I get your point, you need something simple
23:44
I don't indend to support 90% of WPF
I just need the most basic parts.
well there is wxWidgets for Haskell...
It's just my brain is too limited to convert from the object model and that's just pain crude
Write a Haskell-Rebol bridge and write GUIs in Rebol.
@Morwenn as I said, it's terrible
in essence I need purely data-based GUI
23:45
@Morwenn hey, I remember that language, it was so hyped on wykop.pl several years ago
@milleniumbug I'll take your word for it.
@milleniumbug It's currently undergoing big changes.
guys I had this idea
not gui related for a sec
to buy a musical instrument for my siblings this christmas
something to get them more interested in playing stuff perhaps
not too expensive, just good enough to make practice worthwile
guqin perhaps?
23:53
@ScarletAmaranth naah too inpopular and hard to get started on
if I got a musical instrument, I wouldn't make me more interested in playing music. Not by itself
I was thinking either an acoustic guitar or a keyboard
guitars are kinda more expressive, but harder to learn
keyboards OTOH are perfect for starters, fingers don't hurt, and allow you to get familiar with music theory
Keyboards are nice because there's a bijection between notes and keys.
@Morwenn except for when there is not, because of tampering
I was thinking about something like YAMAHA PSR-E353
23:56
@BartekBanachewicz IMO, you need to talk with them and find out what interests them. In the end, motivation (based on what they want) is what matters most.
Agreed.
@Morwenn There is this one widget, Listbox, that you can bind an onSelect method to it. It takes a list of selected items, but I wanted a list of additionally selected or unselected stuff - so I remember the set of stuff previously selected, take the list, convert it to set, and then do a difference between the new set and the old set. Essentially a Schlemiel the painter algorithm because the GUI couldn't bother to return the information it trivially tracks
@JerryCoffin so that means a surprise gift like that won't fly
Ell
Ell
I saw star wars just
Now that I think about it, it most probably doesn't matter since the expected amount of selected items is less than 50
23:58
@milleniumbug The problems with GUI classes is that you always need more methods.
I mean it's under €200
how many siblings do you have?
2
my brother is 16 and my sister 10
there's a good chance at least one of them might put it to use (IMHO)
@ScarletAmaranth yeah if either of them picks it up just to have fun I'd say I already won

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