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8:00 PM
50 secs ago, by Cat Plus Plus
You probably want locks at higher level than container itself.
 
Manual locking begs for bugs. Always use RAII for that.
 
@DzekTrek no, it's actually quote slow compared to what Cat is suggesting
 
Unless you really know what you're doing.
 
@MooingDuck Yes, very overlapping.
 
@DzekTrek privet :)
 
8:01 PM
@DzekTrek also, you probably want a member for reading a single element that doesn't involve copying the entire data set
 
Also, threading sucks. Use higher-level primitives.
 
@DzekTrek and take parameter by const &
 
Futures and tasks and no shared state.
Makes life way easier.
 
How could help me with testing my VPS server?

you may connect to it via RDP ( mstsc.exe || rdesktop )

Gentoo 13 with GUI

I need help for testing the power of my server
who could help me?
 
@DzekTrek and why resize(0) in the constructor?
 
8:02 PM
@MooingDuck Should always listen to the more experienced one. Yes, that was my intention. @CatPlusPlus OK, will do it. @user1131997 Zdarova druzya.
 
@MooingDuck Lol.
 
@DzekTrek also: everything :(
 
resizing app ( yes/no ) with a call of shared state. No need to copy data again in memory to do that. @MooingDuck Will approach this matter more seriously then.
 
@MooingDuck I didn't know you do manual loop-unrolling. :) I would've though that all the pre-optimization is evil talk would've prevented anyone from doing stuff like that. :P
 
@Mysticial I say it, but I can't make myself follow that rule. Goes against my nature. Also I've measured significant speedups occasionally with MSVC9.
 
8:05 PM
And if anyone is wonder where that came from. It's his comment here:
4
A: Optimization of double subtraction in C++

MysticialThere are two possible issues I can think of right now: This computation is memory bound. There is an iteration-to-iteration dependency on curDist. This computation is memory bound. Your dataset is larger than your CPU cache. So in this case, no amount of optimization is going to help unle...

 
@DzekTrek And you are also not using scoped locking. This piece of code is truly a nightmare.
 
nothing wrong with manual loop unrolling, if it gives you the results you want
 
@DzekTrek give me a sec, I'll find a relevant article
@jalf complicates the code, and usually doesn't improve speed. (over compiler optimizations)
 
But that terrible branching!
It steals your precious cycles for its nefarious schemes.
 
@StackedCrooked Even nightmares are nice compared to hell. :) @MooingDuck Thanks.
 
8:07 PM
@DzekTrek I admire your positive thinking :)
 
sbi
Well, I made her bring me the two(!) external HDs she kept them on, and, using a Freeware program, I managed to resurrect 15000(!) images from one of them. A third of them obviously are thumbnails from some program, but that leaves here ~10000 images named fXXXXX.jpg (with XXXXX being a number) to sort through. I suppose it will take her a few weeks or months to do that. Nevertheless she is now eternally grateful. I wonder what I should demand of her, using this opportunity. :)
 
61
Q: Avoid synchronized(this) in Java?

eljensoWhenever a question pops up on SO about Java synchronization, some people are very eager to point out that synchronized(this) should be avoided. Instead, they claim, a lock on a private reference is to be preferred. Some of the given reasons are: some evil code may steal your lock (very popula...

 
@StackedCrooked That's the engine of our progress, hope for better tommorrow and commitment to our work. @MooingDuck I appreciate this. :)
 
@sbi That's a lot of images.
 
@sbi congradulations! You have earned one <FAVOR>!
 
sbi
8:09 PM
@StackedCrooked That's the curse of digital cameras: the taking an image costs you nothing, so you take a lot.
@MooingDuck And a real big one, indeed.
 
@DzekTrek Reading a good book on C++ will save you from years of struggle in order to discover find out how to program high quality C++ code.
3
 
sbi
Right now she's just happy I managed to rescue that many. I suppose when she'll have sorted the first 3000 of them (in some four weeks or so), she'll be a lot less grateful. ("Couldn't you have preserved the folders also?!") I guess I shouldn't wait that long to demand some favor. :)
 
*(Uint32*)surface->pixels + position = color;
 
@sbi What kind of favor? :)
 
@StackedCrooked True, but the thing is there is not much good books at all. Standard ones are very good, but unavailable to all of us.
 
8:11 PM
that is a strange way of doing things
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked I'm still undecided. Ha, I could demand seeing the kids more often, or I'll delete all the pix! :)
 
You can use the pics as a form of payment.
 
sbi
@DzekTrek Actually, there's quite a few good books, all listed in that question which got us worked up so badly yesterday, and they are available at bookstores — or amazon, if you're living in the Mongolian steppe.
@StackedCrooked Ah, you mean I shouldn't hand them out all at once? Now that's a pretty good idea!
 
@sbi Yeah, like 100 pics for one hour with the kids.
 
@TonyTheLion What's strange?
 
8:15 PM
@CatPlusPlus Uint32?
 
@sbi :) Ah, Mongolia. :) Yep, these are the ones that count as supreme course to determine your skills in C++.
 
Just silly SDL typedefs.
Yes, I can recognise SDL from a single line of code.
Yes, it's sad.
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked Ah, but it's not that bad. We're talking days here, not hours. And, actually, my teenage daughter is currently in the process of cutting the cord and demand more time with her dad, so I might get this anyway, if I just support her a little bit. So I should think of something else.
 
@MooingDuck Ah... benchmarking != pre-optimization. There we go!
 
@sbi If she's asking for more time with her dad then I guess you're doing a pretty good job.
 
sbi
8:17 PM
@TonyTheLion It's the same as static_cast<Uint32&>(surface), I guess.
 
Rob
What language is used in stackoverflow.com/questions/9283383/mixed-management-in-c ? I'm not asking facetiously, I just haven't used any MS technology in several years.
 
@Mysticial true, I don't unroll until after I measure. I guess that's something
 
@sbi Actually these pictures can add just enough extra weight in the scale in order to have your daughter's request fulfilled.
 
@Rob looks like C++/CLI at a glance.
what? I just got a badge?
 
@MooingDuck well, that's kind of implied in the "gives you the results you want" part. That (1) you need the extra speed, and (2) you get it through these kinds of optimizations
 
sbi
8:19 PM
@StackedCrooked I guess falling out with their mothers and looking more towards their fathers is somewhat common for teenage girls, no? At least as long as you haven't been doing something terrible wrong, as a father, I guess.
 
@sbi Lol, don't ask me. I know nothing about kids.
 
what the, I just got "nice answer" for two questions from early November? is someone going to my past and upvoting me? :D
 
Optimization is not a dirty word. It's just important to understand the tradeoffs involved, and not sacrifice other factors, such as readability/maintainability if it can be avoided
 
@StackedCrooked Erm, no? I just like living with her.
 
@CatPlusPlus the + on the left hand side of the assignment, I just found it confusing
 
sbi
8:20 PM
@StackedCrooked No, that she must fight out for herself. Well, I do support her, and pull strings behind the scenes, but I don't want to give her the feeling I do it for her. It's not cutting the cord if someone does it for you, after all.
@StackedCrooked But aren't you much closer to girls of that age than I am? :)
 
@MooingDuck Same here. Although (being a compiler expert myself), I tend to know ahead of time which loops can or can't get optimized properly... And I'm right about 80% of the time.
 
@TonyTheLion It's disguised array access.
 
@sbi I'm 31. You decide.
 
@Mysticial I'm not an expert at anything :/
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked Oh, for this room you can almost be considered middle-aged, then! (I am sorry for having forgotten that.)
 
8:22 PM
I'm expert at boring life.
 
@MooingDuck Don't be so modest. :)
 
@sbi Calling me middle aged certainly helps me feel better ... :D
 
@MooingDuck It also comes with experience. Even before I started taking compiler classes (and having to write LLVM passes), enough fiddling with compilers in real HPC code already gave me a pretty good idea of the things they can and can't do.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus You know, it's quite a knack to be able to bore life. Life is easy to excite, and pretty hard to bore.
 
And yet.
 
sbi
8:24 PM
@StackedCrooked See, that's why I was doing it. I thought you'd feel good about it.
 
You're so nice.
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked Actually, I'm not known for being nice, but for being grumpy.
 
I don't think you are very grumpy. Actually I think @DeadMG is grumpier than you are.
 
angry and grumpy are different things
 
sbi
You are The Angry Puppy™, @Dead?
 
8:29 PM
Dead'n'angry.
 
sounds like a servicably accurate description
 
@StackedCrooked @StackedCrooked Yet, he dislikes chocolates.
 
who does?
 
What? My God. (translated by google ) copyright GET 35 - It's forbidden to cite this without exclusive permission of the owner of the license.
 
English in the chat
 
sbi
8:30 PM
@DeadMG Actually, that was French.
 
hence my reminder that the chat is in English
 
Sou desu yo!
Well, I'm heating some soup and I'm afraid it's exploding inside my microwave right now.
 
@StackedCrooked do you have a shield and sword?
 
Better write about it in chat before cleaning up the mess.
 
@LucDanton Of course :)
 
8:34 PM
OK, going to learn something, no more chatting.
 
sbi
> At GitHub we don't have meetings. We don't have set work hours or even work days. We don't keep track of vacation or sick days. We don't have managers or an org chart. We don't have a dress code. We don't have expense account audits or an HR department. — Tom Preston-Werner, founder of GitHub
> We pay our employees well and give them the tools they need to do their jobs as efficiently as possible. We let them decide what they want to work on and what features are best for the customers. We pay for them to attend any conference at which they've gotten a speaking slot. If it's in a foreign country, we pay for another employee to accompany them because traveling alone sucks. We show them the profit and loss statements every month. We expect them to be responsible.
Sounds pretty good, IYAM.
 
> we pay for another employee to accompany them because traveling alone sucks
Nice.
 
Oh, I answered another question. Yay!
 
sbi
> Now, I'm sure Tom was being facetious when he said that GitHub doesn't have meetings, because I sure as heck saw meeting rooms when I recently visited their offices to give a talk. Who knows, maybe they use them to store all the extra forks. — Jeff Atwood
 
where are the mods?
 
sbi
8:40 PM
@AlfPSteinbach The mods are busy modding a game called "meta." Let's not disturb them.
 
I have a type such that T const& t = { nullptr, nullptr, nullptr }; is valid initialisation, but void eat(T const&); eat({ nullptr, nullptr, nullptr }); isn't. I'm so confused right now.
 
uniform initialization obviously isn't
 
Oh great, somehow this is interfering with overload resolution.
 
sbi
The evil is spreading: Hasbro to develop board games based on Zynga titles: http://bit.ly/z9Q91k
 
8:48 PM
Will you buy product, which implements shop and based on C++/LISP

object-model && work with sockets based on C++
sorting and work with data based on LISP

OS is Minix

Will you try such product?
 
So, you want to write in C++ parts that would actually be better handled by Lisp.
If you want to use Lisp, just write the entire thing in it. Using C++ doesn't buy you anything, really.
Also, no.
 
@user1131997 Why would I buy a product based on which language it's written in?
Does it work? Does it work better than the alternatives? Is it offered under better terms/lower price than the alternatives?
Then you can write it in brainfuck or whitespace, for all I care
 
Also, are you selling it along with hardware, or it just runs on Minix?
You are aware nobody uses Minix, right?
 
@CatPlusPlus except for professors teaching OS classes :)
 
Well, yeah, those.
 
8:53 PM
ooh! More badges! I got three in the last 40 minutes, all on questions months old! O.o
 
I doubt they need a shop software, though.
 
@MooingDuck Not just you, I got upvotes on every single answer I had on a question in the month tab early this morning.
And just got another on my Java vs. C++ question...
 
Lisp isn't optimized well, although it can compile into native x86 code or another arch, but it allocating much resources, than well-down C programs, for example Intel developed very good compiler for each option, it runs fast and is well-minded...

Many of GNU projects, which are not supported with money are giving good concept, but bad release

yes, it works

and what is wrong with Minix?
 
@user1131997 just that no one uses it? Would you sell OS/2 software too?
 
there are different markets, for users, for server

many companies are changing even *nix to Windows products, because they are ready for use

Be ready for use != bad
 
9:00 PM
@user1131997 I have no clue what you're trying to say with that
 
@MooingDuck But in any case, yes. Occasionally someone who's in a good mood will go and upvote some of your answers if it gets you a badge. I've done that before - and gave someone 3 x Enlightened at the same time.
 
@jalf sometimes to use naked OS isn't such bad stuff if you want to control fully work
 
@user1131997 but you're not talking about a "naked OS". You're talking about one that no one uses seriously, and which isn't seriously developed to be a robust real-world ready OS
 
@jalf in modern OS there are too a lot abstarct layers and a lot of programs, which people will not use... a lot of
 
@user1131997 there are also a lot of layers and programs that people do use
 
9:02 PM
@jalf really they are using some part, some people use one , another use second and etc
 
but if we can be sane and logical for a moment, then: (1) your software needs to be at least as good as the competition, and at least as well priced/licensed/supported. If you have all those, then you just have one problem left: how many companies are willing to start installing servers running a new OS, different from all their other systems, which their existing staff can't well maintain and keep running?
 
such OSes are not bad if you want transparent solving problems for you work,

for example, if you want to use Minix as Mail Server , so why it's bad?
 
Even if they're willing to deal with that problem, can they trust Minix to get security updates in a timely manner? Can they trust it to be kept up to date with all the software, standards and best practices that they rely on?
@user1131997 I'm sorry, I thought you were asking a question of "would I be interested in such a product". If what you actually meant is "I AM ON A CRUSADE TO PROMOTE MINIX AND I WILL CONVERT YOU OR DIE TRYING", then I'd like to rephrase my answer
 
@jalf Updates are disabled in Minix? It lays on support-team
@jalf I'm not fan of Minix :) Don't be angry ;)
 
@user1131997 not disabled, but are they developed? A lot of people contribute patches to Linux, and help keep it up to date whenever security flaws are found. Microsoft has a lot of people employed to do the same. Who is doing the same for Minix, an OS that no one uses?
 
9:06 PM
@jalf is right, companies (the ones that matter) don't buy stuff when they can't rely on support, quality or even the simple fact if the product is still going to be there in 3 years
 
But here's the simple answer. At the company where I work, we have people who know Linux really well, and we have people who know Windows really well. So setting up Linux or Windows servers is no problem. Installing a Minix server? Who's going to look after it when it falls over? Who's going to configure it, and understand it?
Most companies don't have both linux and windows people, so they're even less flexible
 
I work on such a product, it died 2 or 3 times as a small startup because it couldn't get customers. Then it was bought by a major player and is now steadily becoming nr.1 in it's market segment, but without that takeover it would not exist anymore
 
@user1131997 Please, at least be honest. Yes, you are a fan of Minix. There's nothing wrong with that, but if you can't see the downsides to using Minix, then yes, you're a fan
 
@KillianDS you have used Minix at your project or what?
 
@user1131997 I'm stating a general observation, nothing about minix in particular
 
9:09 PM
I'm a fan of Minix as a fan of any OS, of course development is leaded on support team and it's their work to present well-down product with updates and etc
So, this is the question more about development && supporting this product
 
minix has to make way in a vast market, where there are large players with support for many things (apps, backwards compatibility, updates, the certainty that the product will be supported for a certain time)
 
6
Q: what is auto_ptr_ref, what it achieves and how it achieves it

Yogesh Aroraauto_ptr_ref documentation here says this This is an instrumental class to allow certain conversions that allow auto_ptr objects to be passed to and returned from functions. Can somebody explain how auto_ptr_ref helps in achieving this. I just want to understand the auto_ptr class and its int...

Move semantics in C++98, that's just awesome!
 
as for customers, they really don't care, what you are using: Win, Linux or Minix, it just must works well
 
If you think that you underestimate customers, business customers at least
 
@FredOverflow Boost.Move is available for that.
 
9:11 PM
@user1131997 That depends. If they have to host and run the server, then yes, they care. If the don't, then they might still care.
 
@LucDanton Without looking at it, I assume it provides the proxy and a trait to mix-in the conversion operator?
 
@FredOverflow No idea, haven't look at the docs. I'm assuming that it's a refinement of H. Hinnant's techniques.
 
But again, suppose some critical security vulnerability was found tomorrow, which affected all known OS'es. Most companies would trust Windows and Linux to be patched quickly. Can they trust the same to be true for Minix?
 
When we buy/install a new product, things like support, interopability, long-term vision are often as important or even more important than what the product can do at that moment
 
@LucDanton Why is it known as the "Colvin-Gibbons trick" if Hinnant invented it?
 
9:13 PM
@FredOverflow he decided to give it a random name? ;)
 
@FredOverflow I'm not claiming Hinnant (or anyone) invented anything. However Hinnant has had a description of move emulation on its personal page for quite some time and I think it's been a motivating example for Boost.Move.
 
@user1131997 Anyway, if you believe in this project, then go talk to actual potential customers. My company does not need a webshop. Contact those who do. It's not enough to develop a good product, if you can't sell it
 
> A non-const member function can be called on a temporary object unlike real const objects. Section 3.10.10 in C++ ISO/IEC 14882:1998 standard clearly mentions this exception.
What exception? Temporaries aren't const...
 
@jalf I see, thanks for good advice!
 
@FredOverflow Putting words into my mouth wasn't nice. Anyway, here you go.
 
9:15 PM
@FredOverflow you can cast them, can't you?
 
@LucDanton What does class rv class mean? Is that something like Spy vs. Spy?
 
@FredOverflow I don't know. I'm not affiliated with, associated with, or married to Boost or Boost.Move. As I've mentioned, I've not even read the docs! Go badger the Boost devs on their mailing lists.
 
@LucDanton Hm, requires preprocessor hackery. But nice proof of concept.
 
^ serial downvoter still at it
yesterday i only flagged one of the answers, today i flagged them all; what is correct?
 
sbi
@AlfPSteinbach The problem with this is that the only thing at SO that cares about serial downvoting is the algorithm that reverses it over night when it exceeds a certain (unknown) threshold. If it's below that threshold, mods will not really care. (See here for some discussion on this.)
Yes, I know, when you are used to your answers being upvoted, mindless downvoting is upsetting. But then, OTOH, really — what do you care about -4rep per day?
 
9:31 PM
Well, since I have eschewed (is that the word) the rep point system I don't care about the points. But I care about the intent and that such a person is not in some way stopped and given some stern warning or kicked out of SO. Because he/she is likely to apply the same deranged negative-sum thinking to behavior towards other than me, like, there are many kids on So.
 
@sbi Mods are not given the power to do anything else about serial upvoting, beyond suspending the user. Caring has nothing to do with it.
 
@RobertHarvey oh, there's a mod still here! Hi mod!
 
@AlfPSteinbach curious, where is the infinite recursion you mention in the question asking about an overridden new operator?
 
-1
A: Why the overrided operator new isn't call?

Alf P. SteinbachYou have infinite recursion. Instead, do like #include <iostream> #include <string> #include <new> #include <stddef.h> #include <stdlib.h> #include <stdio.h> void* my_alloc( char const* str, std::size_t size ) { fprintf( stderr, "%s %lu\n", str, (unsigne...

 
9:34 PM
@AlfPSteinbach I'd imagine such frustration/anger is likely to be directed toward the entire site, and they will leave.
 
@robjb it's in the original question. after that, the question was edited. so my answer does not apply to the question as it is now... :-(
 
Ahh, okay
 
@robjb "The same result. See the edit above for a version with no recursion (and I don't have recursion anyway). – ybungalobill Nov 24 '11 at 13:02"
 
in the original question the allocation function did formatted io, like
    std::cout << str << " " << size << "\n";
which can and apparently did involve call operator new
and so on
 
Ah, I see. (Here, have an upvote.)
 
9:39 PM
:-)
 
@AlfPSteinbach oh clever! I dug through the history, but overlooked that
 
i would say, unclever
but it's a pitfall common to many programming environments
like, in Windows API programming, popping up a message box in response to WM_PAINT or some other (IIRC) messages
 
Cleverly recognized I think he meant ;)
 
@robjb yes
I dislike downvoting answers, some take it so personally :/
People asked a questioner to post his code. He adds in: cout << id << name << phone number << credit card number<<...endl;
 
lol.
 
9:48 PM
Sometimes I get the feeling that I get nerd-sniped by every single low-level performance question on SO...
That can't be good...
 
Hmm, what if downvoting required you to add (or select) a comment/reason?
 
@MooingDuck It's been suggested and turned down on meta, I was going to ask that once.
 
Is Boost MPL being updated for C++11?
 
Suggested countless times, in fact.
Well, countable, technically, but exaggeration for emphasis, y'know? ♪
 
9:57 PM
@MooingDuck I think the symmetry is kind of important. A system which favors upvotes over downvotes is just another factor pushing towards a stupid popularity contest
 
@jalf nobody really cares why an answer is right though.
 
@jalf Though people tend to react much more strongly to negative reception. (At least I do - but I tend to hold in.)
 
@MooingDuck no, but my point is that it would be a strong discouragement from ever downvoting
@Mysticial yup, sure. But that doesn't mean we'd be better off eliminating the negative votes
or, for that matter, making them "harder to use"
 
@jalf I wouldn't say "strong", but you make sense. (it is harder to select a comment/reason than do nothing at all)
 
it's just a -2 rep. And if people can't even explain why I'm being downvoted, I can't really take it seriously
 
9:59 PM
@jalf but I had 9000 rep, I liked that number :(
nice and even and everything
 
@jalf I think it's better for my mental health to focus more on things that I can appreciate than on the things that I don't like. So I don't really mind if there's no downvote button.
 
I guess some kind of predefined reasons, like the close reasons, might work. If you downvote, you have to choose between, say, "doesn't answer the question", "is factually incorrect", and a few others
 
"even" (even though I know thats arbitrary, base 10 and all...)
 
@MooingDuck Hey! My rep was divisible by 5 from ~14,000 until yesterday - where I couldn't repcap to offset a downvote that I ate... lol
 
@jalf or selecting a comment
 
10:00 PM
I was quite bothered by that... lol
 
@StackedCrooked well, I think it's pretty essential that we're able to say "this is a fucking stupid answer. Everyone, please be aware that it sucks, and is incorrect and doesn't answer the question, and doing what it says will make your compiler explode"
2
Downvotes serve that purpose
 
Note that requiring a comment would also betray the anonymity. Now, some might argue that it's not really a strong argument, but at the same time, that'd be another loss to the matching between upvotes and downvotes.
Which means yet even more incentive to not downvote
 
note that such "downvote reasons" could easily be made anonymous too. :) But again, I don't think it's a big deal in the first place
 
Annoymous downvoting hasn't really been a problem for me. ~80% of the downvotes I get come with an explanation from the downvoter. So (for me at least), the system works pretty well.
 
@GraceNote it could put a "anonymous" comment, but that's a lot of additional work for no real gain.
 
10:02 PM
I've actually shared the same opinion as you, @jalf - if I can't figure out the errors on my own, and if a downvoter doesn't explain to me, then it's not really in my interest to fret on it.
 
@Mysticial it does, it's just the round number thing :/
 
@GraceNote yeah, exactly :)
I'm happy to improve my answers (or even delete them, if necessary) if people can point out their flaws
 
I don't get many downvotes. But neither do I get many upvotes. So relatively I get many downvotes.
 
heh, from meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/115396/… "P.S. I'm ready for the rain of ironic downvotes- I'm taking this for the team..."
 
if they're not willing to do that, I have to stand by my answer until someone shows me why it's wrong.
 
sbi
10:04 PM
@Mysticial We all thought so, once. Then a serial downvoter smashed this cozy feeling.
 
4
Q: Proposal: Require anonymous comment with downvotes

kdgregory Possible Duplicate: Leaving an anonymous comment when voting. Note: this proposal is the similar to a low-voted response to http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/135/, added (by someone else) after the question was resolved. The problem: downvotes without comments are annoying to re...

 
@sbi There are freaks in all societies.
Perhaps more in IT :)
 
@sbi I only had the one downvote, I'm just pondering. I don't think this would address serial downvoting in any way
 
I think the "select a predefined downvote reason" system would work really well, without having any of the disadvantages of requiring an (anonymous or otherwise) comment. But I also don't think it's such a big deal that it's a priority to implement
 
I should go to sleep before I start spouting more nonsense.
 
10:06 PM
@jalf same conclusion I came to
though 8999 is kinda a cool number too. (What is wrong with my head?)
 
sbi
@MooingDuck When it happened to me, back in the days of relatively low rep, I was very frustrated. But today? I don't care much about rep anymore. I haven't answered questions regularly since Jeff behaved like an idiot in 2010. If someone would now serial downvote me just under the reverting algorithm's radar for a month, I wouldn't even lose as much rep as one good answer gives. Shrug. So what? For me, it's more the helpless feeling of your answers being treated unfair than anything else.
 
@sbi it's mostly getting a -1 for an unknown reason, ruining my nice round rep number, and I've been tracking my progress toward 10k lately
which are all very tiny things
 
@jalf Interestingly, I have moderator points on Slashdot today... Good place to go if you're interested in seeing how pre-defined voting reasons play out in practice.
 
@MooingDuck Yeah, for me rep doesn't matter unless it's divisible by 5.
 
@MooingDuck The solution is to down-vote stuff until your rep is again divisible by your favorite number.
 
10:15 PM
@Shog9 I've heard worse ideas.
 
sbi
@MooingDuck One upvote is as much as five downvotes — which might be just under the radar. So a single mediocre answer per day will cancel out any serial downvoting. It's all about being treated unfair, really. The rep isn't a problem.
Anyway, it's only 6.5hrs until my alarm goes off, so I need to go to bed. Good night, everybody!
 
@sbi I'm aware that it's all me taking offense, and the negative points have almost no effect, and are completely arbitrary.
 
Votes are where it's important, as it were. The reputation isn't important, but good answers getting lower scores for willy nilly is not good regardless of rep change.
 
Yeah. Always sucks to see a decent post with a negative score. However, these tend to attract up-votes slightly more easily as well.
 
That's where it gets a little shaky. Sometimes I make a really good answer and I get frustrated that it doesn't voted up. And then a minute later, I do a FGITW answer on a very basic question and it goes 10+...

But I don't think I can think of a way to change the system to fix that.
 
10:19 PM
@Mysticial As one who deals with this constantly, I know your pain
 
@Mysticial there's been several suggestions to show answers in a random order for the first hour+, which might help a little. Maybe. Declined though.
 
I thought there is still some measure of "early answer order randomness"
 
@GraceNote One thing that I do want to suggest (but not strongly enough to post it meta) is to tweak the ranking algorithm on the SE hot-list as well as the hot/week/month tabs.
 
May still be relegated to just with the same score, though, targetting more of the "early answer" bit than the "early upvoted answer bit"
@Mysticial Any kind of specific tweak, or at least direction?
 
Jeff posted the algorithm for those rankings and it highly favors questions with LOTs of answers. However, that also tends to be the case for FGITW questions. And as such, good questions like this one never make it far up the hot-lists. Despite being heavily upvoted within the first few minutes...
 
10:24 PM
Mmhmm
 
so i posted this yesterday and mistakenly deleted it...and so I had to post it again: stackoverflow.com/questions/9285115/… Can someone please help me as I need to finish this immediately.
 
@GraceNote The default (vote-based) sort order randomizes answers with the same score.
 
please can someone help me solve my problem, i really need help right away.
 
And in my mind, the current ranking system hurts those hard questions where only a small number of specialists are able to answer within the first hour when the question is at it's most critical part of whether or not it makes it on the hot-lists.
 
10:27 PM
@user1079641 Just out of curiousity... What do you think the topic of this room is?
(hint: if you typed a "J" you're already wrong)
 
Sometimes we help Java people
 
Isn't that question a dupe of the one you asked yesterday? (I haven't read all of it though.)
 
@Pubby Including when they're spamming this and two other non-Java rooms with their questions?
 
@Pubby Usually we help them to the door, or to the GCC download page, though.
 
Hey, I said sometimes!
 
10:32 PM
@user1131997 All I can see is void main(), and I'm puzzled as to where you would have got this from.
@user1131997 Think of the space of polynomials as just the space of coefficients. This is a vector space, and adding polynomials is just vector addition.
 
@GraceNote Hey, there. :)
 
I came here earlier and I was told that people here can help in java questions, i thought they were speaking the truth, today I learned from @Shog9 that they were lying...
 
@GraceNote @Shog9, If either of you think my concern/suggestion about the current ranking algorithm holds any water. I can make a meta post on it. (though I need to mentally prepare myself for the onslaught of downvotes...)
*even though it's meta...
 
@Mysticial I don't think you'd get heavily downvoted, honestly
 
10:37 PM
@user1079641 You also posted in the JavaScript room. Is there a reason you didn't ask in the Java room?
 
@user1079641 Have you read the newbie hints?
 
@Mysticial You get serial downvotes or upvotes for a reason.
 
Is anyone else's rep page malfunctioning?
 
I am not a newbie and no one replies in the java room, what's the point of posting it it when I need help right away and the least amount of time for the people in the java room to reply will be hours?
 
I can see how much rep change there is but the posts aren't highlighted in yellow any more
 
10:38 PM
@DzekTrek On Meta, it seems the reason is usually "follow the leader"
 
@user1079641 There isn't a universal solution in life to solve all your problems. Not even StackOverflow.
 
@SethCarnegie that's because you looked at the page. Only ones new since the last time you looked are yellow
 
@MooingDuck it never does it
 
See i posted in java room but no one will reply, the last person before me posted 4 hours ago and the one before him posted 2 days ago. No one replies there
 
@Mysticial Best way to avoid down-votes on MSO? Speak with data (and/or pictures...) more than words.
 
10:40 PM
@robjb I am not quite sure about that, it may be because so called leaders often do propose more rational and to the solution approvable answer, rather than the others.
 
@MooingDuck even when I see that my rep has changed and I look at it for the first time
 
@SethCarnegie I vaguely recall wondering that earlier, but thought it was my mistake. I'll keep a lookout next time.
 
@Shog9 Yeah, the problem right now is: I have almost no data (aside from my own answers) to back up my claim.
 
@Mysticial Yeah... Getting data on voting is troublesome, due to the whole "anonymous" bit. Do the best you can; if you make a good argument, we might be able to help you out a bit.
 
I've only been on SO for 5 months... so it's not like I've seen anything about how the site has evolved.
 
10:42 PM
@user1079641 Sometimes the problem is the question. If nobody finds it interesting enough to think about and answer, then nobody will. Changing rooms doesn't help with that.
 
@user1079641 this is chat, you can ask whatever you want here. The topic is C++, but we commonly answer questions of other language (especially Haskell).
 
If you were to ask how to write an SNMP query in XML through a Qt app for Arduino, you probably also wouldn't get any help here, even if it's in C++.
 
My problem is probably too time consuming. I had gone to other websites but barely anyone was online there...I came here as last hope since people are active here but i can't get any help here either
 
@user1079641 What does concern you about Java?
 
10:45 PM
@Shog9 Wow... I definitely wasn't aware of that... wayyy before I joined SO.
 
1
Q: Java Polynomial Addition

user1079641I am using String Tokenizer and Linked Lists. There is an external file in there are numerous lines of polynomials (one per line). Using String Tokenizers and Linked List, I am running a while loop which captures two lines on each pass and adds them to linked lists. After the numbers have been lo...

 
Yep, the rep thing is broken for me
 
Is the C++ standard library really optional? Because some components of the C++ language are integrated quite tightly... (operator new, exceptions, initializer lists....)
 
@MooingDuck It's not optional for a hosted implementation, and there's a mandatory subset required for free-standing implementation
(which includes <atomic>, and most likely <initializer_list>)
 
@KerrekSB alright. Someone comment "what about if he doesn't have the <string> header" and I wondered.
 
10:54 PM
<ciso646> <cstddef> <cfloat> <limits> <climits> <cstdint> <cstdlib> <new> <typeinfo> <exception> <initializer_list> <cstdalign> <cstdarg> <cstdbool> <type_traits> <atomic>
> 17.6.1.3 Freestanding implementations [compliance], Table 16 — C++ headers for freestanding implementations
 
@LucDanton interesting list
stdbool? To Google!
 
Spoiler: it does nothing in C++.
It's an empty header.
 
In C <stdbool.h> has #define _Bool bool, #define _True true and #define _False false or something close to it.
 
@LucDanton yeah, the cotents are a letdown :/
 
10:57 PM
Uh yeah wrong way around.
 
@LucDanton Empty headers for empty heads. Now that's a campaign I can subscribe to!
 
I think the using synonym = T; syntax is messing with me.
 
Go iso646!
 
@user1079641 I looked, but there's several good answers there. There's nothing for me to add
 
there is
 
10:58 PM
Oh, I guess there's no _True/_False.
 
@user1079641 It's an irritating question. The natural answer is not to use a linked list, but a vector (or "array" or whatever Java calls it).
 
because half of these answers don't answer me. I said I am a student which means i have to use linked list yet half of the people want me using an array
 
notice the blue "10" but lack of yellow
 
@LucDanton Isn't that C99?
 
10:59 PM
@KerrekSB C11, too.
 
@user1079641 you didn't say that in the question. They answered what was on the page, not what was in your head. You should edit the question and notify them in the comments.
 
@user1079641 Very few people are interested in thinking within arbitrary nonsensical constraints. It's not appealing or exciting.
 
I said I am a student as the first thing and next thing i said was i am using linked list
 

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