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00:06
@chmod711telkitty but how many chickens though
a chicken for every pot that presently exists.
@jaggedSpire I'm guessing you have a thing for pot.
00:22
@Nooble Nah, personally I like my greens unboiled.
I've even tried baking them before, though they wound up a bit...smoky
@jaggedSpire Mumblemumble.
00:33
Blender Institute stepped it's game with this one
holy shit
/cc @AlexM.
the lighting is so good
00:52
Excuse me
you're excused
What are some standard paralleization/concurrency libraries/tools that extend past the basic <thread>?
Yayayayay
Getting another bookcase Wednesday so I can put the others in.
Well that answers my question of whether you were excited over the books or the case
I went to get the books (and other stuff) back today in a rented van, and on the way stopped to help my gf transport a closet someone gave her for free, and that same person gave me the bookcase.
00:59
@R.MartinhoFernandes I see you like BANKS
@VermillionAzure He certainly seems to have put a lot of money in them
Next Wednesday I'm buying another from someone living down the street.
@jaggedSpire It sure is stacking up.
nice!
@VermillionAzure :D
@jaggedSpire s/n/pr
01:01
The author with the most money involved there is Saint-Éxupery.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm compelled to say omlette du fromage
@R.MartinhoFernandes At a wild guess, I'd say you're a fan.
My Little Prince collection (minus a few that are ordered) is next to GEB.
How many do you have so far?
@R.MartinhoFernandes U GOT GoT
and CoK!
@R.MartinhoFernandes and AFoC!
01:05
I have all five of those (cropped in pic)
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh
I guess you're waiting for TWoW
poor GGM
@jagged 19 in the picture, 6 underway.
Oh. GoT and CoK are swapped.
And Surface Detail is upside down.
Too lazy to leave my bed now.
@R.MartinhoFernandes i just realized the seires acronymbs can be a sex joke
01:09
Nah.
(It's FfC)
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
it's ruined
@VermillionAzure good job with the spelling there, friend.
@jaggedSpire trhnaks f hap9
@VermillionAzure And I just broke out in hives. Thanks
@jaggedSpire no pasfmnm,
(:
01:13
I am now assuming you're talking about pasta. :)
Discordianism section
@R.MartinhoFernandes THE JOY OF SEX
#robosexual confirmed
The unlabelled one is Principia Discordia
The Joy of Sex, by Alex
Of course you'd go nuts over that :S
01:17
You did put a sex book next to the bible.
@jaggedSpire Have you not seen the sex in the Bible?
All four are religious.
@VermillionAzure I've never read the bible.
DOUGLAS ADAMS IS RELIGIOUS
They're important Discordian books.
01:18
"42" god said
@R.MartinhoFernandes what's the white one?
@VermillionAzure Actually, it was more "WE APOLOGIZE FOR THE INCONVENIENCE"
The Principia Discordia is a Discordian religious text written by Greg Hill (Malaclypse the Younger) with Kerry Wendell Thornley (Lord Omar Khayyam Ravenhurst). The first edition was printed using Jim Garrison's Xerox printer in 1963. The second edition was published under the title "Principia Discordia or How The West Was Lost" in a limited edition of five copies in 1965. The title, literally meaning "Discordant Principles", is in keeping with the tendency of Latin to prefer hypotactic grammatical arrangements. In English, one would expect the title to be "Principles of Discordance." The Principia...
@jaggedSpire yes, there's incest, adultery, probably rape, etc.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, sorry. You just mentioned it, didn't you?
@VermillionAzure I've heard there's no probably about that rape
@jaggedSpire "Haha I would be swimming with you instead of tanning! Lol" Don't know what to reply..
01:20
@jaggedSpire Lot gives his daughters to the crowd when they are demanding to have sex with his angel guests
yeah.
Yes, I mentioned it while everyone was going nuts over a book with "sex" in the title.
@R.MartinhoFernandes SEX!
"Now that I have your attention..."
Actually, the book is about sex, but not relevant.
ughhhh cmake
One could say it's a sex bible, I guess.
01:23
@MaiLongdong cmake cupcake
@jaggedSpire halp
runs like a cake
Anyway, I really should sleep.
@MaiLongdong why not GNU make?
make is terrible too
01:24
Different tools
@MaiLongdong well, I tried.
and yeah they don't work on the same level anyway
well, ok then.
I give up already
Why are all build tools so consistently bad
@edition lol
01:25
@MaiLongdong Because C++ has an old build process
cmake and make are not C++ specific
idk what do you expect
make is ancient and cmake is cmake
something that just works
@MaiLongdong Ninja
@MaiLongdong bash script.
01:25
@edition that's suggesting to use a fork after a problem with using a shovel to dig a huge field
Make your own make, with blackjack and better syntax
Also whoever still uses in-tree builds?? wtf
reinventing the wheel is okay when existing wheels are made out of cow pies
why is everything so consistently terrible
because your the glorious Longdong had nothing to do with their creation.
01:29
likely
hi nobble
@edition ..................
@MaiLongdong I think that make and Ninja are both decent.
hi nooble
make becomes decent if you make use of the automatic variables and rules
Make and ninja don't do what cmake does.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah that's true
01:32
@MaiLongdong hi
But he began complaining about build systems in general
"My oven sucks!" "Forks are good to eat food"
But CMake is indeed terrible. There's hardly any friendly, readable documentation for it
Nevermind the awful DSL
@MaiLongdong yes you're so right about that one
01:33
I'd take JabbaScript over CMake DSL any time
Their tutorial doesn't say which commands to use.
@MaiLongdong IMO Lua ftw
@jaggedSpire lol somebody should make a tutorial on CMake once they learn how to use it
premake uses Lua but it's p much dead
@VermillionAzure lol I found a better one
@jaggedSpire whair?
01:34
Also, I wouldn't feel comfortable telling people how to do stuff until I had far more experience than that
Oh wait, looks like they're suddenly un-dead?
@VermillionAzure thair
is it bad to use a bash script for building projects, even if others can easily use it?
IIRC premake scopes are retarded
@edition non-portable is a first reason
@jaggedSpire oooh
nice
also doesn't actually give you anything
I'm slowly mincing my way through
@edition can't use if they don't use bash (lol jk)
01:36
A bash script is not a build system.
It's a build script at best.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes, I realise that.
Uhhh...
- Less than desirable portability
- Hard to customize
- Bad to reason about
- No system at all, just automation
I don't know what to use anymore
Somebody should make a graph-based build system or something like that
just build yourself, thing
01:37
write your own and post it here so we can take advantage of your sweat and blood
@jaggedSpire That actually might be plausible
If I can learn #graphgasdfj
Aug 1 at 22:58, by unordered_meow
The less I have to learn about my build engine the better
I just use ninja with a custom bootstrap script in Python. It kinda sucks.
It's so hot
@unordered_meow Honestly, I think a graphical system for modeling a build system would be nice
Like, imagining the source files as graphs and stuff
OOC what would a good build system do? I have previously frolicked with MSVC for actual projects, which wasn't the worst.
01:40
@jaggedSpire what does ooc mean
You mean MSBuild?
Out of curiosity.
yes that please excuse my heathen ways
Out of character in my circles
@jaggedSpire It would build your program with minimal stress on your part, do it correctly, efficiently, and also preferably test your code at the same time
01:41
Testing is out of scope
@R.MartinhoFernandes Testing is often considered a part of the build process on bigger projects, right?
GitHub has that feature where we can test for incremental builds
A build system should just produce artifacts.
why are the Makefiles generated by automake really complex?
Because Make is only slightly more high-level than a bash script
IOW non-portable
Testing is done by your test harness.
01:43
@unordered_meow isn't make basically nicer bash script?
@unordered_meow I'll assume that was sarcasm.
@VermillionAzure It calls the shell, but you don't have to worry about tracking dates and what's new and what's not - that's what's would you have to write manually in a script
@edition It wasn't. Go outside and actually use better build engines
So you would want, say, the ability to list included source files, specify the output type, specify the build order of multiple objects, the ability to specify the output of the system, varied switches for each compiler you would use all hidden behind a single interface so you didn't have to change everything when changing compilers
And compare what code do you have to write in order to have, for example, a debug build, in Make, and in other build systems
@unordered_meow I'm not that stupid. I wouldn't normally use automake anyway.
01:48
And you would be able to specify defaults in your system too, so that to use clang instead of gcc you'd have to specify that in the command used to call it?
@jaggedSpire something like that i guess
I'm going to stop before I decide it sounds simple and wind up three months from now, on fire, and without sleep for the past three days
Also laughing
I think a build system would probably work well with functional conventions
or something like that
A build system is not that complex in theory
You have a list of targets and rules to produce those. The end.
something like console -> visual graph/tree for cluster in question -> larger view of project would probably be a good start for a visual build system
01:50
In practice it's a massive clusterfuck
@MaiLongdong I think build systems should make use of hierarchical clustering
That way it's easier to look at sub-clusters and define how deep into the tree of building youare
I have no idea what that is but if it's dependency ordering then they already do that obviously
There's a big difference in building a FB_UIComponent_Update_Text class and main
@MaiLongdong Dendrograms and build systems would probably work nicely
They're tree charts, kind of like tournament brackets
Yes Cinch build systems use graphs
Like perhaps 90% of the CS problems out there
@MaiLongdong I hear Ninja likes to conceptualize them as just graphs/edges, but wouldn't it make more sense to also visualize their priority?
01:53
That's edge weighting which doesn't fundamentally change the problem
@MaiLongdong It would be a better visualization method, though, right?
Well I don't know I haven't studied the question
go and experiment
If the colors represent different subsystems in your application, that'd be a good way to visualize how things work
@MaiLongdong Maybe I should
01:54
there is still no non-painful build system out there
is that a graph of... hair types?
@AmagicalFishy I have no idea
It's just an example dendrogram
@MaiLongdong You know what isn't painful? My amazing website.
ah! neat
@Nooble prove it
02:04
@Nooble link
feels very iOS-ish
@MaiLongdong He's using Bootstrap
@nabijaczleweli Did you code the HTML yourself?
buttstrap
It's pretty nice for what it is
02:09
I use Semantic UI
@MaiLongdong Very, very nice.
@Ver which HTML?
@nabijaczleweli Semantic UI
The one on his website?
Huh? I'm confused now
He did all HTML himself
@nabijaczleweli No, I'm saying that Semantic UI looks nice.
02:19
@VermillionAzure You mean me?
I did yeah.
@Nooble Pretty minimal. Were you interested in learning more?
FUCK AGARIO
@VermillionAzure Yes.
@Nooble English plz
@DonLarynx having size problems?
02:21
@jaggedSpire team plz
Thing 1 will be your name
Thing 2 will be mine
@Nooble Have you taken a look at Node.js yet?
@VermillionAzure I spazzed on my keyboard when I left to get a snack.
@VermillionAzure Yeah I will tomorrow.
@Nooble asdfahgb3 3tv
Tonight I sleep.
@Nooble Take a look at Express.js and maybe Handlebars. They might help you.
02:22
@VermillionAzure Ooh ok.
@DonLarynx you do not want to do this. Nooble did this, and it did not turn out well for him.
@MaiLongdong Yeah I see it.
I will not be made a blob-murderer of my friends, not again.
@jaggedSpire I dont give a fuck about Nooble agar.io/#G3Z73
02:23
@Nooble Express.js is a good starting point. I made an email server for a mini-internship
I only started learning web stuff right before you left Mumble @MaiLongdong
@VermillionAzure Cool.
@jaggedSpire Eat him pls.
@Nooble Also, learn R if you want. Data science/informatics ftw
@Nooble It's not bad looking for a first try.
@Nooble you traumatized me. Forevermore will I be unable to play, paralyzed by the thought of ingesting friends.
@MaiLongdong What do you do btw for your job?
02:25
@MaiLongdong I tried to make it Material design conformant.
FUCKING TEAMERS FUCK THIS GAME
@VermillionAzure I make low latency servers for finance
@DonLarynx here's a new game: choose a set of requirements a blob must fulfill for you to let them eat you, and then find them and feed yourself to them.
@MaiLongdong With what?
02:26
HATE
@MaiLongdong You hardware accelerate them?
AGARIO
AGARIO
@DonLarynx play solo version.
First challenge: they must be bigger than you.
or go play Hearthstone
02:26
@VermillionAzure Pure C++.
@MaiLongdong ...Yeah with what libraries doe XD?
@Nooble Not really it's more careful design of the system and tuning of OS. (I don't do GPU anymore if that's what you meant, and I miss that)
@VermillionAzure All handcrafted with love
@jaggedSpire they must be on top of another cell and so I go into the other cell and one of the cell dies and rage quit
been there dun dat
FUCK AGARIO
@MaiLongdong This doesn't tell me anything O_O
@VermillionAzure Well, sockets, boost, stdlib? :D
02:27
@MaiLongdong Oh.
I love GPUs.
@MaiLongdong Boost.Asio?
I love GPUs too.
Oh, and what does the finance run? Does it run Erlang stuff on it too?
And is it trading or analysis?
@VermillionAzure No, raw sockets. Boost is for stuff such as flat maps etc.
Especially AMD GPUs, super great for compute.
02:28
Trading and it's pure C++, except UIs which are C# or HTML.
@MaiLongdong That sounds pretty hard to get right
How heavy is your build system?
@Nooble OpenCL needs serious tooling. I am considering making my own company to work on that.
@VermillionAzure It's not "hard to get right"(tbh the overall system is fairly simple), it's hard to get the performance right
build system is annoying
@MaiLongdong You should.
Cicada™
OpenCicada'sLongdong?
I have actually a p good idea of what to do
But I don't have enough monies to sustain myself ATM so I'd have to move back to my parents or to a cheap country
@MarkGarcia mental image
I should make a GPU room
02:32
Such as my mother? She's pretty cheap
@MaiLongdong OpenCL tooling isn't really the thing of cheap laborers in cheap countries.
I know, but if I have to live in HK i'll run through my savings in 3 months. In Philippines/Indonesia it would take years.
So I can, say, take a year break in south asia, make my own thing and see if it works or not
Maybe teach at a uni
AGAR
IO
FUCK THIS FUCKING GAME
@MaiLongdong Given your experience, you could have a quite hefty pay even on low load on "higher-end" universities, at least from what I see here in PH.
I don't think so, I'm just a fresh grad lol
._.
02:39
@MaiLongdong shut up
You could pitch your GPGPU ~expertise~.
02:56
I am a sh!tty entrepreneur because I am not good at selling things (including ideas)
On the other hand, I am fairly good at design and making new things
and my economics & finance knowledge have been rather helpful
way to adverise your entreprenurial skills kitty
@MarkGarcia how do I parallelings!
Also I don't know whether it's my misconception, but I find a well off landlord/landlady tends to have a longer lifespan on average than a successful entrepreneur.
I guess as a successful entrepreneur, you have to deal with a lot of shitty things which a landlady do not have to face.
That's assume you are in a developed country with stable social environment
03:13
@MaiLongdong Consultation?
Networking consultant?
03:32
@VermillionAzure What are you talking about?
@MaiLongdong As a job? What do you think? Could you do that?
I lack experience
I think I'd make a great "Network Consultant" (whatever that is).
04:08
How blunt!
(I'm not having a problem with that)
Typical STL
byecode
04:39
you guys know what could cause a de-referenced iterator to hang indefinitely only when it returns something? I know it's a pretty vague question, but I've been struggling w/ it all day
In fact, only the first member of the iterator hangs. If I ++ it, the rest can return fine. It's so weird, but I think it might involve too much code to post in a question
what does the debugger say
better yet, it only hangs when it returns an std::map (returning an int works fine)
Is it making a deep copy of a big map
1 min ago, by Mai Longdong
what does the debugger say
It doesn't say anything—it just freezes, and then hogs all my memory (if I don't Ctrl+C it within about half a second, I can't move my mouse at regular speed for the next 20 minutes)
Well step into the dereference
Perhaps you're making a deep copy of a very big map or the type being copied has a bug in its copy members idk
04:45
Wait, the debugger like gdb? It just prints out a bunch of stuff that I have no clue how to interpret (it seems unrelated to my code, even)
Here's a small amount of output: (gdb) step
_M_clone_node (__x=0x619f10, this=0x7fffffffced0)
at /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/stl_tree.h:1207
1207 _Link_type __top = _M_clone_node(__x);
(gdb)
_M_create_node<std::pair<std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> > const, int>
yes a debugger like gdb, what do you call a debugger?
(but it just loops stuff like that forever—I know exactly where the hangup is, and exactly what is hanging stuff up, but I have no clue why; the output isn't helping :( )
the map is only 2 elements of <std::string, int>
can you make a MCVE
what's that? (sorry, pretty new with this still)
oh!
i've tried, no. :l the working example would be pretty big, i think
my attempt ended up being ~150 lines of code, and worked fine, haha.
Then cut the fat until it either works (in which case it will help you find the issue) or it's small enough to share
04:48
i guess i'll have to, yeah. damn—i've been struggling with this all day
programmings be hard
ayup, yup, programmings be damned hard
i am so confused
Hi guys… any good, representative/instructional examples of dangling references? For this: bit.ly/genlife (pdf)
05:45
@MaiLongdong I managed to get this down to ~200 lines. :D
It's still far too long.
I don't know how to get it any shorter. :(
I've spent hours trying to zoom in on the problem, and whenever I do—everything compiles and runs fine
(And the hours spent trying to zoom in are not including the hours spent trying to figure it out other ways. :l)
Why did you decide to try to write a linked list in the first place? And what educational resources did you use as a guide?
@Potatoswatter I used... uh... the internet. :D
I'm writing one because I'm building a text RPG
and a linked list, I think, is an easy way to manage items inside of a room
or manage a lot of things w/ variable length (which is why I made it a template)
06:00
Please not cplusplus.com…
Why not std::list?
no, mostly just googling stuff
the only reason i didn't sue std::list is because, while i'm building something, i'm really new to c++
and i wanted to learn the ins-and-outs
(building this linked list has helped me a lot with understanding pointers and references and things like that)
Now you've learned: don't code data structures.
ahaha, no kidding
You might be learning a lot now, but actual progress toward your goal would be even more productive.
when i feel like i have a good grasp on things, i'm going to start using std::unique_ptr and stuff
it's true—but i'm really glad i have a grasp on pointers/references/constructors/operators/etc
06:03
It goes the other way. Use std::list and std::unique_ptr first, then when you're adventurous you can try doing things manually where there might be a benefit.
ah, yeah. that makes sense.
i have a habit of approaching things the hardest way head-first
There are too many nuances. It's easy to make something that works, but hard to imagine all the things that can go wrong in general usage of a data structure class.
i think once i solve this i will take a more pragmatic approach

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