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09:00
@rightfold except it isn't. Imagine C++ if all the various proposals would have been done unfiltered.
@rightfold ?!?! dangling references anyone
@rightfold An lvalue reference works. Right now I'm just trying to figure out what the Standard requires though
user1804599
@sehe even worse!
Far worse
user1804599
@sehe no?
user1804599
The functor returned by std::bind holds the unique pointer, and when called it passes it by-reference to the function bound to.
user1804599
09:01
Passing NSDMs by-reference is totally fine.
Perhaps I should just ask on SO
@FlorianMargaine anyway, yeah, I get it. The article explains it nicely. And I don't buy it. Not worth it in a real project at all.
@rightfold Ah. You meant that. That wasn't unclear :)
Once I wouldn't have given up that easily
user1804599
@AndyProwl another option is to write a functor using a class explicitly instead of using a lambda.
09:03
@BartekBanachewicz link?
@rightfold Yeah, there's a lot of ways around this but I want to understand what's going on
@BartekBanachewicz thought you'd like the syntax, very close to haskell's ;-)
the funniest thing is that I can understand that code if I look at it hard enough
user1804599
struct s { };
int main() {
    struct s x;
    return x;
};
user1804599
09:05
This doesn't compile. We can conclude that C is statically typed.
but I personally think it's meh
          ,@(loop for arg in args for type in types
                 collect `(check-type ,arg ,type))
          ,@rest)
@rightfold file a bug
user1804599
I don't like the distinction between static typing and dynamic typing much.
user1804599
I'd like to see an "amount of static verification" scale instead.
user1804599
Rust does more static checks to eliminate bugs, but those are arguably not part of the type system.
09:06
@rightfold read the blog post
user1804599
Data types are only part of the story.
the blog post doesn't mention (declare (optimize (safety 3))) though
3 could be 0
user1804599
@FlorianMargaine Why? TL;DR.
@rightfold choose your typing, static or dynamic
user1804599
Tell me what problem to solve first.
user1804599
09:08
I can't make any choice before you do that.
2 mins ago, by rightfold
I'd like to see an "amount of static verification" scale instead.
did I misread that?
@BartekBanachewicz oh lol. Author posts a GCC warning message and concludes:
> It won't even let us get as far as having an executable
...
user1804599
@FlorianMargaine How can I tell?
How misinformed could it be
user1804599
If you think that that line was referring to the blog post, then you're wrong.
user1804599
09:09
I am not saying anything about the blog post. Doing so would be incredibly foolish, since I didn't read it.
welcome to the internet
13 hours ago, by Ell
Failing to install Linux mint
:lel:
user1804599
:ell:
user1804599
I believe Odersky independently talked about this once.
> `Ti` is the i-th type in the template parameter pack `BoundArgs`
> `TiD` is the type `decay_t<Ti>`,
> `ti` is the i-th argument in the function parameter pack `bound_args`,
> `tid` is an lvalue of type `TiD` constructed from `std::forward<Ti>(ti)`
> The values of the bound arguments `v1, v2, ..., vN` and their corresponding types `V1, V2, ..., VN` depend on the types `TiD` derived from the call to bind and the cv-qualifiers cv of the call wrapper `g` as follows:
> [...]
> [...] otherwise, the value is `tid` and its type `Vi` is `TiD cv &`
The way I read it (in particular the last line), this means bound arguments should be forwarded as lvalues
Xeo
Xeo
09:13
ye
markdown hates me again
Xeo
Xeo
Markdown feeds on tears
enjoy your daily meal, Markdown
Xeo
Xeo
I would have accepted either lvalue or rvalue, but not... both.
Something's wrong
user1804599
I think that in Mill I will forbid overloading a subroutine on two types which share a subtyping relationship.
user1804599
09:17
oh how fun
user1804599
more terrorism in France
user1804599
R.I.P. @Ven and @Mr.kbok.
user1804599
NEINNEINNEINNEINNEIN!!!!!
Xeo
Xeo
09:21
@AndyProwl Please do. I'm confused why it accepts both parameter types for the bound function.
@Xeo Maybe it's an extension? It decides depending on how the bound function accepts the argument
user1804599
Why does Stephen Fry follow so many programmers on Twitter?
Xeo
Xeo
@AndyProwl Nevermind, I'm an idiot
4
I never try to call the result of the bind
user1804599
@thecoshman you in your youth: vine.co/v/enhjKXxjPrT
Xeo
Xeo
no instantiations etc
09:24
oh, right
let me join the idiots club
3
Xeo
Xeo
errors with rvalue ref, yeah.
@rightfold meh, old
user1804599
That's what I said.
> I am interviewing different programming language creators about the reasons why they have created the language, how they did it, what design choices they have faced, how it compares to other languages, etc.
wat
user1804599
what "wat"?
09:27
inb4 wot "what 'wat'"
user1804599
awesome
@AndyProwl woot
user1804599
@fredoverflow Written in Scala!
@fredoverflow ¬_¬ it better not just be another stack wanking language
09:30
@rightfold is that a terrorism thing
user1804599
Interesting idea: high-level stack-based language that translates to Java bytecode and uses the Java bytecode verifier as type checker.
user1804599
Or CIL, if you want generics. :P
I would never have thought that doing an SVN -> GIT migration would not be network bound
user1804599
Are you not using ClearCase anymore?
I am... sort of... not really. I've moved on from that
user1804599
09:35
@fredoverflow I wrote a name resolution module with AST node IDs: github.com/mill-lang/millc/blob/master/src-lib/Language/Mill/…
moved onto a svn based project, and one of the first things I am doing is moving it to git
well... being pulled back for some 'final' things on the old project
I've started my last week here today
@BartekBanachewicz best week ever!
actually not really
user1804599
Guess why I wrote runST $ runEitherT $ instead of runST . runEitherT $.
09:38
@BartekBanachewicz you can be really honest
I'd really like to be free already I guess
@rightfold Because phat cache
incidentally I've ordered a wrong micrometer tool so I can't do the engine swap yet anyway
user1804599
The latter doesn't type-check. The former does because GHC special-cases ($) if the first argument is runST.
so that project will wait until next week
09:39
@BartekBanachewicz pita, but at least you noticed before fucking shit over
yeah I want to be sure I have everything I need
I need to buy new oil as well
:\ while sleep 60 ; do git fetch ; done is actually starting to look like a sensible thing to do to help this shit work. The fetch keeps running out of memory every so often... and If I'm not there to see it, I waste precious time.
@BartekBanachewicz did you get another jerb
@BartekBanachewicz you can but try. There will be something missing :P
@Prismatic announced a while ago
09:41
@BartekBanachewicz get red oil, it goes faster
I'm am wondering if buying synthetic oil is worth it
@BartekBanachewicz congrats. what kind of stuff will you be doing at your new gig?
@Prismatic Javascript
@thecoshman IKR.
@BartekBanachewicz afaik... depends :P
but I can at least try to minimize it
@thecoshman I bought Motul oil last time (pretty much the best brand out there), but mineral
motorcycle dedicated OFC
I am kinda afraid of buying less viscous one anyway because of the leaks :/
09:43
@BartekBanachewicz really not that much difference... rpm maybe
@BartekBanachewicz use haste
@thecoshman no not really
@BartekBanachewicz o_0 that's not good
@thecoshman meh, not totally terrible either. Doesn't leak that much
09:44
@thecoshman different parts getting lubricated differently, no/less oil filtering etc etc
@FlorianMargaine heh
I think the main thing with oil is not really the oil itself but how long it lasts (or how often you change it)
I much prefer emacs as a mail client than evolution/thunderbird :/
@BartekBanachewicz vOv this is pc screens vs tv screens all over again :P
also, finding out that hipchat is an xmpp server lets me use it from within emacs too
did I mention I'm an emacs user?
09:45
also my laptop SSD broke over the weekend
@FlorianMargaine is that like an early version of the imac?
thankfully still a month of warranty left
I have to extend it
@BartekBanachewicz lol
@FlorianMargaine Obviously not, since you have not been lynched yet.
@thecoshman not really no
09:46
@BartekBanachewicz what? no? if it's still under warranty, it's under warranty... they replace it...
@thecoshman I mean, after the replacement
> motorcycle oil is formulated for 3 jobs, a crankcase oil, a transmission-gear oil, and a wet clutch oil.
@BartekBanachewicz yeah... motor bike engines really and not that different to car engines. Size is a major factor sure
@thecoshman they are totally different
@BartekBanachewicz oh, they don't offer a warranty on the replacement
@BartekBanachewicz Er. You usually don't have a lot of choice.
09:47
I don't get where you're getting your misinformed ideas from
@thecoshman no, it's the future version. Hipsters™ only.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I better keep my mouth shut then.
@R.MartinhoFernandes why wouldn't I?
@BartekBanachewicz Because mineral oils don't have anywhere near the same viscosity ratings as synthetics.
I have a mineral 15W40 right now
Some engines simply require what minerals can't provide.
09:49
I think I'll buy the 10W40 now
@BartekBanachewicz That's one of the most common ones.
>
A slutty woman wants to be hooked up with a couple of young guys That butt on the picture is needed to be f()cked
yeah buying 10W40, it's semisynthetic
I think that syntax is ill-formed
hopefully it won't make my engine blow
or worse leak overnight
09:51
That said, if you have a choice, minerals tend to age worse.
I am planning on frequent replaces anyway
~2000km since last change
@BartekBanachewicz well.... as often as it needs it... don't change oil for the sake of it, it's not like it just comes out the ground.
be more vague please
how often is "as often as it needs it"
say, you have any idea why bikes have the '1 down 4 up' gearing? why not just '5 up'? I know you get the odd bike that does etc
@thecoshman well, technically...
09:53
@FlorianMargaine :P
@thecoshman because 1 is always fully down
@BartekBanachewicz huh?
that means by pressing your foot down repeatedly you'll get to 1 and that's important
if you need to move out of the way in case of the accident etc
@BartekBanachewicz opposed to repeatedly until N? what about the fact you get the odd '2 down'?
my bike has N-1-2-3-4-N-1-...
09:55
@BartekBanachewicz o_0
@thecoshman you get what?
@thecoshman very convenient in the traffic, because I can get from 4 to N easily
@thecoshman it's more important to reliably find 1 compared to N
@BartekBanachewicz I've seen the odd bike that has 2 down, 4 up... usually the BIG bikes
rather uncommon
@BartekBanachewicz is that like a cycle?
1-N-2-3-4-5-6 is the most common one
09:56
@BartekBanachewicz hence 'the odd bike'
@BartekBanachewicz yeah
@thecoshman yes
I guess I see what you mean about wanting to be able to find first more than neutral...
@BartekBanachewicz so how do you 'know' you are in what gear?
at least with normal gears you know you hit it enough you are in a certain gear
@thecoshman I have a display
but on other motorcycles, well, you just have to know
@BartekBanachewicz sounds like a point of failure to me :\
like a what?
09:59
@thecoshman Why would it be?
@BartekBanachewicz yeah, but you can at least keep bashing until you know, I've hit down 50 times, either the gear box is fooked, or this is first.
If that display goes... you have next to know idea what gear you are in
The only ones that matter are 1st, neutral, and "the others".
@thecoshman And you don't care.
You know because you're riding it.
@R.MartinhoFernandes you do when at lights... or any other stop
@thecoshman I have an additional N light (a lot of motorcycles do)

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