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15:00
Also, easy to write on calling cards.
mine would be rather easy
not sure if I want to get 'tcm' in some form...
Linode is great
oh, DO do a server for $5 a month
that's rather cheap to say the least
yeah I might look into that
@cat is the two servers just encase one goes down?
Goes down or isn't reachable for whatever reason
Want geo redundancy for better reliability
Sadly rmf.berlin was taken already :(
15:03
I.e. they should be in different datacenters in different parts of the world
user1804599
use Erlang :P
@R.MartinhoFernandes is rmf.street still free?
@CatPlusPlus o_0 I feel bad that such an obvious point slipped me by
@thecoshman No.
15:04
rmf.bridge
what about mf.robot?
or r.mf :P
Yeah, one-letter domains cost only 10000+
Not interested anyway.
I like my presence in the British Indian Ocean Territory.
oh, I thought IO was a new tld along with all the other shite
15:06
what would be the appropriate solution for c++? stackoverflow.com/questions/31121513/… . Overloading -> should work but it's ugly.
user1804599
sexy domains ftw
> Is there an elegant way
> java
pick none
Xeo
Xeo
@thecoshman nope, it's an abused tld
huh... €9 would get me two small virtual servers... which could make a for a rather nice set up...
user1804599
to best domain
15:08
@Xeo Goes hand in hand with what the Brits and Merkins did there.
The depopulation of Chagossians from the Chagos Archipelago, that is, the compelled expulsion of the inhabitants of the island of Diego Garcia and the other islands of the British Indian Ocean Territory (BIOT) by the United Kingdom, at the request of the United States, began in 1968 and concluded on 27 April 1973 with the evacuation of Peros Banhos atoll. The people, known at the time as the Ilois, are today known as Chagos Islanders or Chagossians. Some Chagossians and human rights advocates have said that the Chagossian right of occupation was violated by the British Foreign Office as a result...
Xeo
Xeo
xeo.io is taken :<
@cat if I did do that, would you be willing to help sort out the "non shit backup" and "auto redundancy thing" (mostly the latter)
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh wow
@Xeo don't pick nicks that are shared with hundreds of people vOv
You can ask but I mostly did email servers that send crap out, and almost never receive
15:11
@BartekBanachewicz Seriously Fuck. This. Shit.
@buttifulbuttefly We need a military base, GTFO.
I've done setting up email server for TX/RX... might be a spot out of date... but I've done it
Can't comprehend why can't be more than one person for this.
> java: is there an elephant way
@R.MartinhoFernandes I have no words
15:11
@milleniumbug hi hi hi
currently there are like 150 people waiting
are you there?
fuck yeah
I might pop in and laugh at all those people
@buttifulbuttefly I like the title of the wikipedia article.
15:12
I am, but not gonna see him in any reasonable time
As in, don't.
@milleniumbug no way
I also set up my mail to have some encryption thing... which is all well and good, but if the server reboots, I have ssh in and remount the encrypted folder :\
I don't even bother trying
@AndyProwl lucky
@thecoshman Yes that is how encrypted storage works
@buttifulbuttefly To use the article's own words, it should be "Compelled Expulsion of the Inhabitants of the Chagos Archipelago".
@CatPlusPlus pita though
@khajvah No I'm not, I get this like 2 weeks in a year, it's not fair
"Depopulation" my ass.
15:13
Security and convenience are on different sides of the same axis
but I guess with two servers, not such a big deal, as I can 'trust' the other to keep working until I can sort my shit out.
user1804599
Just use Gmail and don't bother with sysadmin nightmares.
@AndyProwl Ugh.
@rightfold but I don't want to use gmail :\
@R.MartinhoFernandes Lovely isn't it
:P
15:14
@CatPlusPlus if it's not convenient then it's not secure
user1804599
custom gmail domain is cheaper than VPS
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's probably accidental
@thecoshman how about proton mail
@BartekBanachewicz how about it?
user1804599
get a goatse.cx email address
15:15
@BartekBanachewicz gpg is not convenient, yet it's secure, isn't it?
@BartekBanachewicz Uh, real security often involves more hoops to go through, not less
@rightfold but Richard Stallman says, google is evil
user1804599
Richard Stallman says a lot of things.
@rightfold I signed up years ago. Still nothing :/
@BartekBanachewicz I too, don't bother especially since I don't have anything interesting for him. There's a colleague in similar situation though, who has a chance of meetiing him and has papers. I'm just gonna ask him a few questions after.
15:15
@CatPlusPlus doesn't make it good though :\
@CatPlusPlus if you make it inconvenient to be secure, people won't do it vOv
@BartekBanachewicz hence the problems
That's... irrelevant
@thecoshman why don't you open an email account there
@BartekBanachewicz That's essentially what Cat said.
2 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
Security and convenience are on different sides of the same axis
15:16
@BartekBanachewicz what's it like?
It is inconvenient to be secure
3
It's just a fact
It's not something you can work around
plus I kinda want to be self hosted...
@thecoshman it's an email account. I uh don't know what else to say
For increased convenience you sacrifice security and vice versa
It's end-to-end encrypted
15:17
PGP Pretty Good PITA
user1804599
yummy, a pita
@thecoshman that's a nongoal
@BartekBanachewicz That's not what he's looking for vOv
idk how they can encrypt automatically and not know the key
@R.MartinhoFernandes I have no idea what he's looking for
@CatPlusPlus the key is 2nd password hash?
user1804599
15:18
the key is your password!
Someone said (I'm just sharing) :
like lastpass does, no?
I am very skeptical of any claim that one should not learn C before C++. As I see it, a lot of discussion about programming styles is kind of like religious wars - they are faith-based with no real data to back up their claims. They are making arguments as if they are based on fact, when it is more a matter of taste.

Personally, I learned C (in 1984) before I learned C++ (in 1989). I can't say that I suffered from it. But then, these are only two of the dozens of languages I have learned since I started programming in Algol in 1969.
user1804599
> C++ 1989
@TheArtist except when it comes to C
user1804599
15:18
this is 2015 not 1989
@BartekBanachewicz it sort of is... I sort of want my own email so it's my own email...
@thecoshman why
@BartekBanachewicz vOv
@thecoshman see
that's a nongoal
a goal is to send and receive emails
not really
15:19
unless you have different goals WRT your email account
> The United States is now the world’s second largest Spanish-speaking country after Mexico, according to a new study published by the prestigious Instituto Cervantes.
Already!
@BartekBanachewicz Dunno what that means
in which case w/e
But it's an automated system
user1804599
since C++ was pretty much C at that time it will indeed help if you already know C first
15:19
@buttifulbuttefly they speak Mexian in Mexico, silly
You don't sit there and input password for every incoming email
Mexian is in Mexio
@CatPlusPlus you have another password, they store the salt, they encrypt that on your end basing on the hash of that password?
@BartekBanachewicz how do u know its that bad? is it that you learnt C and then found C++ hard? Or are you telling from hearing people say?
@CatPlusPlus when you log in you have to provide your main password, then your inbox password
I guess it's cached
15:20
@TheArtist you deserve a public service announcement
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus sudo mode!
@TheArtist C is pretty much irrelevant when learning C++. If you want to learn C++, learn C++ and don't waste time on C. EOT.
@CatPlusPlus They use the public key?
or maybe that
15:21
hey bby u wanna c my pubic key
Yeah probably
I would send you invites to protonmail but they don't like give invites to users
C is not detrimental to learning C++. It only is if you assume you know C++ since you know C.
you just have to sign up and wait
Dunno why I assumed symmetric
Probably because of how Dropbox does their "encryption"
15:22
I can at least tell you that the web iface is decent
it's clean and simple
but don't expect it to be as secure as they claim it is
@khajvah why?
because you said so?
@Veritas It's also not useful at all
When you login, you get the private key and have to give your passphrase.
Seems they keep the private key on their servers, but I guess opening the key and subsequent decryption is all local.
7
Q: Is email encryption, as claimed by ProtonMail, possible?

noviceIs it possible to create a Web service that encrypts all messages, such that only the writer, and the person to whom the mail is sent, can read it? In other words, is the theory behind ProtonMail valid?

15:23
They could store encrypted private key like keybase does
However, I have no idea how they send anything.
Though that should be entirely optional
If you assume they only have the encrypted message in their servers, that's what they can send to the recipient, and the recipient lacks a key to decrypt that.
@khajvah thanks
15:24
@CatPlusPlus the answer has a valid point though
There are two factors here, the encryption of storage and encryption of mails
you use their javascript
They know both endpoints, so I guess they encrypt it twice.
the problem is that you still need to "trust" them, which kills whole point
@khajvah I don't think so
15:25
Once for sending, with the recipient's public key, and once with yours for storage.
Encryption of mails requires knowledge of the recipient's public key
more importantly... how much is it?
@khajvah the fact it's not perfect doesn't mean it's not useful or better than conventional email
@CatPlusPlus Yes, but it's a closed ecosystem; they have everyone's public key.
@thecoshman it's free
15:26
@BartekBanachewicz ergh... what's the catch?
well yeah, I prefer that over gmail
@R.MartinhoFernandes That makes it easier :p
@thecoshman no idea how to use your own domain with it
@thecoshman Men in black
15:26
it has decent interface and can be secure(just not NSA proof)
@BartekBanachewicz vOv kinda want that though.
keybase is the best we have for top secret communication I guess
@rightfold you are late bro
@R.MartinhoFernandes "we have" = "we around here"
15:27
@CatPlusPlus Maybe but it's also not "bad" to learn. It made me aware to how some things are implemented for instance which is good knowledge to have. Specifically it helps you remember and understand some C++ restrictions.
@BartekBanachewicz nah, tweet encrypted tweets
Keybase is no different from secret sex change.
convenience!!
any way, home time :D
@Veritas It's a waste of time if your goal is learning C++
user1804599
15:27
@khajvah I'm not bro.
Knowledge of implementation details is not relevant to learning programming either
shh do you hear the butthurt wave incoming
user1804599
Greece already got my money.
I was asked about unordered_map implementation today
I said "it's not in the standard, up for implementation" so he asked "what could be one possible impl"
oopsie.
@CatPlusPlus It helps you to remember/understand the whole trivially_copyable mess.
15:29
I managed to answer with combination of "magic", "unicorns" and "red-black trees"
@Veritas That's not very important
user1804599
don't implement unordered maps with RB trees
user1804599
use hash tables
user1804599
the API is terrible enough to pretty much require it, see bucket_count and such
c++ has such weird names for its containers
15:30
They try to be implementation independent but badly
w/e
I guess the guy was just firing blanks anyway
as in, he wasn't really interested in if i know how rb trees work
more like "does he know anything about data structures in general"
I'd pick hash tables for unordered maps
we talked about hashing too
@CatPlusPlus That's debatable, ub is easy to fail victim to if you are not aware of such rules. In any case learning C is not detrimental to learning C++ since it enhances your understanding of the language's restrictions if you approach learning C++ as a different language with different idioms afterwards.
but then it went on collisions
and automatic collision solving
15:32
@BartekBanachewicz It's hash tables, and with chaining, not open addressing.
I mean I'd be scared of any dictionary without amortized O(1) for stuff :<
@Veritas Beginners don't
That's the fucking problem
RB trees are for map.
And that's why we discourage that
user1804599
screw you guys
user1804599
15:32
I'm going home
you use trees for ordered maps
@R.MartinhoFernandes we'll see how bad it went I guess :)
@BartekBanachewicz If he was he would have asked about map.
in the meantime, I'm going home
@R.MartinhoFernandes we talked about map as well
funny, I talked about the same thing in my interview
I went into a pedantic argument about the difference between lists as in linked lists and lists as in ADT
mentioned the dictionary == hash table thing some people seem to consider to be true as well
actually that wasn't pedantry at all wtf
it was just common sense
I think I did my best to explain it anyway
I remember getting back something like "std vectors are arrays"
15:37
std vectors are people
std vectors are pointers
popele are std vectors
@CatPlusPlus They don't if they are not actually aware of their differences. Making them aware that these are different languages and that learning one won't necessarily mean that they''' have learnt the other is fine. Telling them that learning C will make it somehow harder to learn C++ is just not correct. Just being pedantic.
literally speaking
@Veritas It's. what. happens
15:39
> popele. First-person singular present of popeln. First-person singular subjunctive I of popeln.
You underestimate how easily people get confused when they start out
Grossly
Also Debian mirrors are utter shit
FUCK YOU
Argh
@AlexM. lurk moar
@CatPlusPlus That happens because colleges treat C++ as a bastardized C with classes using Java idioms. Most other good learning mediums highlight the difference so those who start out are aware of them.
@AlexM. sounds like a verbibol
I don't know, I'm not a nerd
LIKE CICADA
15:44
No flattery allowed
I have programmer's block
@Veritas Er, no it does not. C has no such concept so there's nothing to cover about that in C.
I need like... something to change to make me feel invigorated again
maybe a new IDE theme or a new wallpaper
what's programmer's block?
you become dumb?
15:48
"Oh man I can't solve this problem, I have programmer's block, my brain does not function."
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
> Hi martinhofernand,

This email is to notify you that the password for the Snapchat account martinhofernand has been changed.
I already forgot it.
usually if I can't solve a problem it's because I didn't get enough sleep :<
I'm so tired lately that I can stare at monitor for hours before I manage to write anything
15:49
@AlexM. Yeah... kinda working on the same thing for really long and not really getting anywhere. And you kinda lose the will to work on it any more
I don't even want to open the ide up
@CatPlusPlus Except in Lounge that is
stderr: E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
oracle-java7-installer : Depends: java-common (>= 0.24) but it is not installable
oracle-java7-unlimited-jce-policy : PreDepends: unzip but it is not installable

msg: 'apt-get install 'oracle-java7-installer' 'oracle-java7-set-default' 'oracle-java7-unlimited-jce-policy' ' failed: E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
What
Fucking
Debian
lol debian
apt-cache policy unzip
?
I can't fucking trust this shit to not break it's just fucking impossible
15:51
@CatPlusPlus openjdk-$version-*, noob
@CatPlusPlus OSes in a nutshell
OpenJDK is shit
@CatPlusPlus everything is shit
Nobody supports OpenJDK
@R.MartinhoFernandes I was referring to understanding of vtables.
15:52
yet everything runs on it vOv
3
Q: How can I display the IP address of an interface?

user47556If I want to display the IP address that is assigned to eth1, how can I do this in Bash?

@CatPlusPlus that said, I've always solved my debian packaging issues
WHY IS THIS SO FUCKING HARD
I have enough problems with Spark to not deal with crap broken by virtue of running on OpenJDK
sometimes it was a little hard
Like... give-me-the-fucking-ip em2.
15:52
Er, C has no such concept so there's nothing to cover about that in C.
(Also, no one needs to understand vtables)
How hard is it to give a tool like that bundled everywhere.
@Griwes Define everything
@CatPlusPlus Every thing.
@CatPlusPlus All ze stuffz
15:53
Most large Java projects I've seen recommends Oracle JDK over OpenJDK because shit breaks or is unreliable
I never had any issues with openjdk either
I've had some flakiness with OpenJDK wrt Android Studio
@Griwes Good job
@Griwes ifconfig is enough really
@buttifulbuttefly I need the IP specifically.
15:54
Then if you wanna do ~~fancy~~ formatting / extraction yeah it gets more complex but then again Bash
Not a whole lot of random garbage.
@buttifulbuttefly not if you plan to put it in a script
"give me the ip" feels like a trivial operation
heck, feels like an operation you want to have IN YOUR FUCKING IFCONFIG
How about hostname -i as said in the 3rd answer
@Griwes fork ifconfig
15:56
@FlorianMargaine That's not the issue of "woe is me I can't deal with shit breaking"
It just breaks routinely and I have no patience for this unreliable nonsense
When I do a provisioning run that takes 30 minutes and breaks half way through because apt is retarded and easily one of the worst fucking package managers in existence
Fuck Debian
@CatPlusPlus lel
you just cannot into apt vOv
The problem is, like they say, between the keyboard and the chair.
Ven
Ven
@rightfold look, even purescript removed the inline ffi: github.com/purescript/purescript/wiki/0.7-Migration-Guide
Ugh shut up jesus fucking christ yes the problem of apt cache breaking for no reason exists between the keyboard and the chair
We will be replacing hardware for two of the #stackoverflow edge routers at about 18:00 UTC today. No service disruption is expected.

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