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13:00
@sehe Yes, on the surface. Dung under.
ikr
Activiti Eclipse plugin editor allows you to say which variable should contain user task form result/choice but it does not allow you to put boundary event onto an activity. OTOH, Camunda Eclipse plugin allows you to put boundary event onto an activity but it does not let you edit this form variable, it handles forms differently.
FML.
IME you can always get yourself horrified by looking at the XML backend storage.
And there's bound to be a programmable object model.
Ven
Ven
@sehe you accidentally a word
Who says it accidental
13:06
@AndyProwl LMAO, that is hilarious. I had to bite my knuckle not to laugh hard in this open space. :)
@wilx :D
Scott is a great entertainer
Yup.
Ven
Ven
He-man can be but the best
@sehe Oh, I did. But I am not going to edit the raw XML!
@sehe And I am not going to program the Eclipse plugin either. I am basically fucked.
Ven
Ven
13:10
@AndyProwl I read it could go up to 6 months!
user1804599
I want to generate C code.
Ven
Ven
@rightfold no, you want better llvm ones
user1804599
No.
user1804599
LLVM is shit.
Ven
Ven
okay, i'll bite the bullet -- why ?
user1804599
13:17
So that C interop is easier.
Ell
Ell
I found a transformer with just two wires
unless it's not a transformer vOv
user1804599
Apparently Facebook supports PGP.
2
user1804599
user1804599
_.each(travelArrangements, function(travelArrangement) {
    travel_arrangements.push(travelArrangement);
});
user1804599
oh god this code is horrible
13:21
That's pretty neat.
@rightfold is that a security bug reporting feature? Or just normal email?
@rightfold What? Where?
sbi
sbi
@Xeo FWIW, I am still fighting BOOST_MPL_ASSERT. :(
user1804599
@wilx contact info settings.
Ven
Ven
13:24
@rightfold ...what?
is that travel_arrangements = travel_arrangements.concat(travelArrangements)?
@rightfold std::copy(travelArrangements.cbegin(), travelArrangements.cend(), std::back_inserter(travel_arrangements));
c++ is ugly
user1804599
@Ven No, it appends travelArrangements to travel_arrangements.
user1804599
The horribleness is the verbibol names.
@khajvah STL is beautiful
Ven
Ven
13:26
@rightfold fixed
@rightfold Thanks. Added. However I wonder how useful it will be :)
Ell
Ell
std::copy(travelArrangements, std::back_inserter(travel_arrangements)); would be preferred
@AnnonomusPenguin The check box says it will send you encrypted emails.
You know what's a bad idea? Throwing your sole set of clothes into the washing machine before you go retrieve the rest from the other side of town.
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
13:29
@Ell You're mixing containers with iterators now, you can't do that! :G
Ell
Ell
@nabijaczleweli not yet
@R.MartinhoFernandes Now you have to dash through town with boots and briefs only?
sbi
sbi
@wilx Presumably that's why he's down with a cold.
I have no idea.
@R.MartinhoFernandes an excuse to actually have tinted windows. When you get pulled over the cop will have more sympathy
13:30
@sbi Haha.
@nabijaczleweli Take a look at your posted line of code again.
@Ell Hopefully never IMHO, unless we'll get operator typename typename().
@R.MartinhoFernandes uh
(double conversion operators)
user1804599
On a scale from 1 to 10, bukkake?
Ell
Ell
13:30
@nabijaczleweli why hopefully never?
@Ell Otherwise, that'd be code dupe, IMO
@rightfold What? Bukkake is gross.
Ell
Ell
how is writing the container once more duplication than writing it once? :P
@Ell Eh? All standard algorithms take iterators to reduce/remove coupling with containers.
You were putting a container in place of iterators. That's illegal :G
13:33
My friend left clothes drying here that are quite dry but... it's mostly dresses.
No jeans or anything that I could maybe wear without looking like an idiot.
Ell
Ell
@nabijaczleweli but in future they will hopefully take ranges
is it just me or the whole landing page is just a bunch of buzzwords?
@rightfold: It actually works. Just got my first encrypted message from Facebook and it decrypts well.
@Ell Of course, you could just:
template<class Cont, class OutputIt>
auto copy(const Cont & container, OutputIt itr) {
  return std::copy(begin(container), end(container), itr);
}
@BartekBanachewicz While, I am tempted to say it is just you, I agree with you. It is full of buzzwords. :)
13:36
boost::range::copy(container, out) :3
What's a mojo?
apparently it's "self-confidence" in the hood language
user1804599
@TonyTheLion bukkake is healthy
@Jefffrey I always thought it was a cute way to say magic.
@Jefffrey Apparently a lot of things
@Jefffrey I personally don't like boost too much, bloaty as'ell.
13:37
@wilx this is what I ended up doing when faced with shitty eclipse-platformed IBM-grade enterprise-ware
@nabijaczleweli get out
:P
/me leaves
@sehe Sadly, I am different level than you are.
You mean you don't feel free to do it?
I don't like boost too much.
It's too hard.
I tried.
To like it too much
dem edits
13:39
Edit game strong
huh, I survived another hangover
Ell
Ell
@nabijaczleweli bloaty as hell? :P
What is bloaty about it?
@AndyProwl Creating some witty suspense
@Ell cross-deps
13:40
@khajvah is what you think. Prepare for groundhog day
bringing each and every dep to its fullest to use one tiny function
@nabijaczleweli stl is bloaty too by your definition
@sehe I mean it would take me huge amount of time to actually learn Camunda's Eclipse plugin stuff and Eclipse stuff before I would be able to actually modify it.
Ell
Ell
I'd rather "bloat" than writing it all myself
3
And that is not part of my job.
13:41
@Ell Like... Everything? I've used ONE class. From ONE module. Exec size *= 15. Comp time *= 5.
@Ell you don't have to write it all is the point. If you need one function, writing it is likely to be faster.
@wilx Yeah. I spent that time. And it was still crummy as hell. But I wasn't feeling like a typing monkey
and while it adds code to the project (which you almost never want), it can still make sense
@khajvah STL isn't so interlinked... It doesn't bring the whole lib for one goddamn class, which doesn't even use it.
@sehe I didn't understand you again. But I am used to not understanding you, so it's ok.
Ell
Ell
13:42
@BartekBanachewicz if you only need one function then boost won't pull in lots of deps?
I am not religiously opposed to using boost, but certainly it has a very big threshold where it really starts to get effective
@Ell you talk like someone who never used boost. Or is it wishful thinking?
@BartekBanachewicz ?! That doesn't make sense. Boost Thread, Variant, Optional, they make immediate sense without any (or very little) setup
Ell
Ell
It's neither
Most boost libs are careful to let you include only the minimum required though
@sehe std::thread, std::experimental::optional
13:43
Even if "minimum required" can be a lot to someone's standards
guys any idea why this works: http://coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/eac170be3a986ba8
but this doesn't?: http://coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/872bfcaa70861a33
@sehe thread is already standard, optional has a standalone implementation (or experimentals) and variant is largely superseded by Mach7 now
If only build time is your concern, then your hardware is a problem, not the lib
@BartekBanachewicz And likely to be wrong as well. Make a string tokenizer. Now, next time add the flexibility you need. Or make several versions. Now, maintain that shit. Oops the change to support the new usecase broke the first. Aw.
@BartekBanachewicz LOL. Good try
Ven
Ven
13:44
@Mr.kbok ...really? that's your argument?
Yes?
Hardware is hyper cheap compared to developer time
@Mr.kbok Never do cpp <(echo "#include <algorithm>") | wc -l :)
@sehe I didn't say it's a braindead choice, quite the contrary. Extremism towards getting everything out of boost even if you don't need anything else is silly though
Oh. Someone used the B-word. I see.
@BartekBanachewicz True. But the argument you made is bogus
13:46
How much time are you spending on rewriting those boost parts? How much time people will spend trying to understand how it works? Debugging it? Documenting it?
@sehe you pulled the "string tokenizer" argument, not me. If writing a parser-ish thing, I'd be the first one to jump ship and use a ready library.
Ell
Ell
Speaking of B-words I need to remind myself of β⁺ and β⁻ decay
@nabijaczleweli STL is just as internlinked. It just has far fewer versions (and conveniently ony supports a single version of your compiler)
@BartekBanachewicz You did
@sehe Won't be a "try" in 2017
Are you going to -as a team- spend all this time on code that is tangent to your app, only to gain a few seconds of build time you could get by spending a few hundreds on hardware?
13:47
@BartekBanachewicz hahahaha.
> If you need one function, writing it is likely to be faster.
So true about hardware
@BartekBanachewicz ^ Which function did you have in mind?
sbi
sbi
Damn. I just found the problem I have been wrestling with for the last 2,5hrs. I had a using namespace boost in a scope in a function that was only 5 LoC, so the code wouldn't be cluttered by all the boost::mpl. Unfortunately. the compiler picked up a stray is_same<> and all went downhill from there...
Companies does not want to spend a few bucks to upgrade the devs' machines
@sehe Nothing in particular.
13:47
If only they'ld realize the mad time gainz
@BartekBanachewicz So, you had no point?
They call it smoke & mirrors
I just wasn't stuck to any specific case?
sbi
sbi
And that happens to me, who wrote this.
Boost has a lot of useful utils
@BartekBanachewicz You didn't have one. I'm challenging you to come up with an example where the trade off makes sense.
13:48
And I agree that Optional, Variant and Thread should basically be standard. And you know what? They are/are going to be.
@sbi Haha. You should have used namespace alias.
Yup. And they aren't. Aaaaand (which is what I mentioned) they're splendid examples of things that don't pull in more than requried (just MPL + Typetraits, really)
sbi
sbi
@wilx Can you even use them at function scope?
@sbi Oh...
@sbi heeeee that's a good answer
@sbi yes
sbi
sbi
13:50
@sehe Really. So they aren't a namespace declaration?
@sehe lol "just" MPL.
@sbi They're a namespace ... directive IIRC. Anyhow, you can use them locally
bloat /bloʊt/ noun (computing) unquantifiable negative characteristic defined in terms of the prejudice of the speaker.
@BartekBanachewicz What now. "LOL"? It's not humonguous and it's not unneeded. Of course, if you want to live in a modern-compilers-only invitation event, have a ball
@sbi yes
13:51
...
@Bartek explain how MPL makes anything bloated.
sbi
sbi
@sehe Yeah, this works. Damn, I had eradicated all the other problems hours ago...
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's LOC... I guess
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz namespace practically_std { using namespace std; using namespace boost; }
Meh tired with playing devil's advocate here.
sbi
sbi
13:52
@R.MartinhoFernandes It bloats our binaries.
(No kidding. This platform has a runtime linker.)
user1804599
The devil is good.
user1804599
Punishing bad people and all.
I really don't think writing code is that justified
@rightfold Don't forget to have sympathy for him
13:53
And every reasonable sized projects will make so many "oh well this could be solved easily with boost" that probably they will sum up to a net gain
And to show him all your well learnt politesse
Most platforms have a runtime linker, btw.
that being said, for a reasonably big number of projects optional/variant will be enough
@Bartek you still sound like you're assuming some of those uses of boost will be a loss.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yep, I do.
sbi
sbi
13:54
@R.MartinhoFernandes Whatever. This platform requires all symbols to be available in the binary. Heavy template code can make identifiers that end up being 40% of the binary size. Given that binary size is rather limited...
Which is a fine assumption to make, but it is interesting that you struggle soooooooo hard to magick up an actual example.
hey bby u wanna c my big binary size
@sbi Why is the platform so silly?
I am pretty sure that for anything on my ARM board it would be a loss
esp. if I stuck to using Keil's compiler
sbi
sbi
@wilx It's a VxWorks version from the mid-90s.
13:56
reserved that upgrade to win 10 thing
but thankfully I don't have to think about that anymore so yeah well
@sbi Oh, embedded stuff. I can imagine it is stupid. But still, even Windows CE has this image linking step that basically makes everything static.
I read about the article which showed a screenshot of the icon in the taskbar you had to click to reserve
all platforms do, though. Unless there's only static linkage.
Still, that shouldn't bloat the binaries for any template mechanics - unless the compiler is failing a bit
at first I was like "do I have to install an app"
but then I saw the icon in my taskbar
how long has it been there O_o i said
sbi
sbi
13:57
2 mins ago, by sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Whatever. This platform requires all symbols to be available in the binary. Heavy template code can make identifiers that end up being 40% of the binary size. Given that binary size is rather limited...
@BartekBanachewicz swalled a Sartre-flavoured Haskell pill?
@sbi: Can't you circumvent that by adding your own pre-linking linking step?
@sehe the less code you have the better vOv
@sbi IDGI. The template stuff shouldn't even exist as symbols in the first place, AFAICT
this really works in practice
13:58
@BartekBanachewicz True
But that's a very very awkward bomb under any programming-related discussion
hey bb u wanna c my awkward bomb
having a language that allows you to write terse code helps
It's like saying that the less you breath, the sooner you die, the less problems you are likely to cause and experience.
physically less code is less reading and less editing
It's true.
13:59
@sehe Well that's factually true!
And it's overly cynical

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