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00:00
um hang on
50 mins ago, by Brian
I assume everyone on the internet is American unless proven otherwise
heehee
Mar 12 at 13:31, by R. Martinho Fernandes
God can do that. That's what being omnipotent means.
someone should invent an ignore button, jeeeeeeeee
z.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit small squee. tiny maybe
@DonLarynx somebody should invent a way to teach UIs to noobs jeeeeee
@DonLarynx Um they already did, some time ago.
OH SORRY THAT WAS AN OPINION
00:04
It saddens me to learn that this gorgeous young girl has erectile dysfunction. At her age... :(
i want to click but is it nsfw?
it's meh
@nick it's ok. It's an article link appearing on lifegooroo.com anyhoops
00:05
damn the struggle is real
first world problems²
first world problems? what a way to dismiss very real, tangible issues
user562566
@sehe It's a test bro. But a flawed one. It targets viewers who don't frequent teh pron, and thus don't spook so easily.
> spook
? wuts
@nick hehehe. That's first world problems³
Just to make doubly sure, of course I didn't click the article. I have no clue what happens there. But then, I didn't link to it either
@DonLarynx I loved that drama btw. So funnny
00:11
@sehe i only just realized your avatar pic isn't the abominable snowman
@sehe rofl
u sexist
In my opinion, I'm going to bed now. Hope that's okay with you @nick.
user562566
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You did it wrong. Suggested edit "You're okay with it Nick"
@LightnessRacesinOrbit aw don't let me stop you.. sweet dreams m8
Edit rejected: no improvement whatsoever.
user562566
@LightnessRacesinOrbit As you command
00:14
By your command*
relax guys..
user562566
@LightnessRacesinOrbit status upgraded. god of English
user562566
@LightnessRacesinOrbit night
@TechnikEmpire A legend in his own mind.
@nick In your opinion...
00:18
@LightnessRacesinOrbit not gonna lie i thought of adding that in but that just seems kinda snarky
God forbid.
In fact, I do forbid it!
Okay anyway yeah byeee
lol
anyways..
user562566
@nick agreed
didn't really mean anything by that :P
@LightnessRacesinOrbit good night
Morning guys.
00:25
morning sir
heheeheee
@DeanSeo where are you?
I am in Korea.
Kangnam style was born here.
lol.
*gangnam style cant even spell it right
obv not korean
......
user562566
00:27
@DeanSeo Is it bad that I think of starcraft automatically when someone says Korea
@TechnikEmpire pretty racist yeah
I don't think so. Even I am really crazy about both Starcraft 1 and 2.
lol.
user562566
@nick lol how so
haha i'm just messing
i hate wrappers
00:28
@nick A lot of expats here used to spell it as Kangnam, but they suddenly all changed to that since PSY.
I am sure none of you guys here can defeat me on Starcraft.
heehee.
user562566
@DeanSeo :O I dunno
lol probably not because i suck
user562566
My spam APM is like 300
user562566
no one can step to that kind of spam
too much multitasking; my brain is single-threaded
00:30
@TechnikEmpire Wow that's actually pretty fast. Mine is like 250~280.
my avg apm is like 50
user562566
@DeanSeo lol nah I was inflating a bit. My average is somewhere mid 100. A friend of mine is 300+, and I can say from sitting next to him, it's all spam
i mean i play terran but still that's slow
I grew up watching Starcraft. Most of the days when I was a kid Starcraft is one of the few things we could enjoy.
user562566
@nick yeah for terran you need high APM for splitting marines and finishing and kiting and such
user562566
00:32
@DeanSeo Yeah I played it in high school thought it was so awesome. Now I'm total trash at sc1
i don't really do splits, too much thinking involved
@TechnikEmpire Yeah man. Well if someone plays sc1 still, then he got some problem there.
Lounge<RandomPeople>
pretty much
@DeanSeo i tried SC1 but i couldnt get over the fact you're locked into 640x480
@nick You need to optimize that too much thinking. :)
@nick 640x480 with 128 colors.
user562566
00:34
@nick Yeah. back in the day people came up with hacks to make it go native res, but they always were glitchy. I would play it if it wasnt 640
@TechnikEmpire I heard Blizzard did that on purpose though? After they saw Total Anahilition they thought their 'original' Stracraft is kinda shitty and requires too much computer spec or something?
Well that's a long time ago. I am not sure. Maybe that's a different story.
they probably locked it to 640 so the art would look consistent (pixel art is funky) and so nobody has an advantage
Yeah
You are right.
@Jefffrey damn a politician thats educated
eh perhaps that wasnt fair
user562566
@DeanSeo Not sure. I dunno why they never increased the res.
Angela Merkel has a PhD in quantum chemistry
@Brian yeah
you just don't see that kind of thing in 'murica though
@StackedCrooked daaaaaamn skrillex
00:42
lol
guys why doesn't lounge have a helpful bot like the javascript room?
We do.
!!halp
@R.MartinhoFernandes
@R.MartinhoFernandes help me
uh
00:45
He is the Lounge bot.
@nick You have to wait until it wakes up
@R.MartinhoFernandes am i on the path to fame and fortune?
robots don't sleep
And hope it's not busy with some lady.
What's going on?
"I want to go with that banana."
Dunno why.
00:46
banana = dick
Don't mess up with banana. All food is sacred.
Actually, it's a somewhat Dutch expression meaning I want to go for it.
But yeah, slightly suggestive :P
@R.MartinhoFernandes You have been summoned!
@R.MartinhoFernandes how do i fill my empty wallet
00:48
@nick Have sex with strangers in exchange for money.
@R.MartinhoFernandes do you approve of that?
@EtiennedeMartel Doesn't work for non-handsome men
@Jefffrey There's a market for everything.
Works for me.
k brb
00:50
6 mins ago, by nick
guys why doesn't lounge have a helpful bot like the javascript room?
@Nooble valid question IMO :)
It is a valid question, and the answer is we do have a bot.
i asked for a helpful bot though
my wallet is still empty
@Nooble Our bot writes things like Nonius. I challenge you to get the bot in the JS room to do anything (even close to) equivalent (and if it does, it'll leave the place, and never return).
00:54
Mine too.
@JerryCoffin Our bot is truly the best.
Besides, the JS room doesn't even have a koala.
Or any females.
We already have a helpful bot, just type your command \@ LightnessRacesInOrbit help <your question goes here>
9
The list of commands can be found in the rules of the room
@Cicada That would be the anti-help bot.
i think i'll stick with mr. martinho
00:58
Mr = Mister Robot
@nick I think I prefer Mr. Martini, the automatic (and friendly) martini maker. Mr. Martini, your plastic friend who's fun to be with who gets you drunk.
That's what my friends say about me!
@JerryCoffin Hey, those don't have to be mutually exclusive.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oops--my lousy memory rears its ugly head again. That's supposed to be "pal", not "friend", isn't it?
Yeah.
I'm your plastic pal that will get you home when you're too drunk to remember that.
That sounds creepy.
01:07
@Cicada s/helpful bot/hellbot/
ermahgerd i clicked the link a second before it was removed #winning
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'd almost be tempted to put that to the test if it weren't for minor details like getting drunk and having to travel all the way to Berlin, not to mention your probably not being there when/if I did.
not my cup of tea, stacked :)
So with a question like this:
0
Q: C++ find words with first and last same letter and sort them in alphabetical order

Nesvarbui can't make program that reads from file words ( there is no limit of words or length to them ) with same first letter and last. I use class and object and first of all i can't make reading them #include <iostream> #include <string> #include <sstream> #include <fstream> using namespace std; cl...

How do you politely tell him that a correct answer is roughly 1/20th as much code as he's written?
I think you should just ignore the "do my homework for me" questions
01:13
@JerryCoffin Post it :)
I don't think it's worth wasting time on something that doesn't really add any value to anyone else reading an answer later
@Cicada I guess I could post it here, but I won't just do his homework for him.
std::ifstream in("text.txt");
std::vector<std::string> words;
std::remove_copy_if(std::istream_iterator<std::string>(in),
                    std::istream_iterator<std::string>(),
                    std::back_inserter(words),
                    [](std::string const &s) { return s.front() != s.back(); });
std::sort(words.begin(), words.end());
@JerryCoffin Fair enough
i'm guessing this is for some intro to C++ class, and there might be constraints on std class usage
and/or c++11
yeah
it's a pain not being able to use libs especially when you have to deal with arrays
01:17
@Trantorian Maybe. My ambition is to one day take an intro C++ class, and in every assignment use at least one concept the professor doesn't know (yet).
I don't understand his question. Oh nevermind.
> Look, if they can put a man on the Moon, they can jerk off a herring.
@JerryCoffin Just make everything happen at compile time
and spit out the answer as an error message
@JerryCoffin my guess is the professor won't like that very much
@nick But why not? School is a place for learning, right?
01:20
@R.MartinhoFernandes wat
user562566
@JerryCoffin Is it?
@JerryCoffin learning is a directed graph, you don't just learn your professor some C++!
oh, hmm, AP Computer Science is taught in Java these days (the topic of homework reminded me of AP CS)
what a shame
well, when folks consider themselves an expert they don't particularly like to listen to others
A...plied Computer Science?
01:21
Advanced Placement? are you in the U.S.?
@melak47 its a high school class (college lvl)
@JerryCoffin Well, it's happened way too often to way too many of my friends :(
@nick The experts I've known listened to nearly everybody.
it's a standardized program for "college level classes" for high school students
@Trantorian what would you guess? :p
01:22
@Trantorian Was AP CS ever not taught in Java?
there's a defined curriculum and standardized tests, and if you pass them, some schools give you colelge credit
haha, maybe i'm old
but it was in C++ when I took it
oh damn
I don't want to date myself too precisely
@Borgleader A quote from the lady I'm seeing. It's what she said :D
java's not a bad place to start
01:23
I love Java, Indonesia is such a nice country!
user562566
@nick Not bad at all if you want to learn how to do everything wrong
3
@Trantorian If C++ existed when you were in high school, you're either still young, or spent way too long in high school.
:23306151 I have plans to go later this year.
@JerryCoffin I'm apparently older than the people that think AP CS was always in Java though
@TechnikEmpire i mean it teaches you the basics of classes and objects and shit
01:24
@Cicada All I've seen of it was that episode of top gear, seemed like a really beautiful place
@Trantorian You're a toddler. They're infants.
I find the content of AP CS rather disturbing
you won't learn what a pointer is though
"classes and objects and shit"
@nick only NullPointerException
01:24
@Borgleader Indeed it is. My father worked there for a while and he really loves it (particularly the people, he says).
@nick Sure you will. It's what causes a NullPointerException.
@Brian eh i probably could've phrased that better
@JerryCoffin haha
@nick no, it's pretty accurate
:)
01:25
high school students should be learning how to solve problems, not "fret about faux 'problems' like has-a vs. is-a"
my complaint is that Java, like almost every non-C++ language, has a crappy standard container libraries that teaches you to approach problems completely wrong
@Brian True--they should be taught Lisp or Haskell, not some drOOPy language.
not really a fan of java myself but at least it's used in the real world
@Trantorian If only that were Java's biggest problem...
inb4 links to real life usage of lisp and haskell
01:27
@nick So are heroine and cocaine.
@JerryCoffin well, ok, that's not my only complaint
bored
@Rapptz ty for sharing i feel #blessed
@Rapptz ...and stroked.
01:28
@nick it's time to stop posting
So I'm guessing at least @R.MartinhoFernandes knows what "bored and stroked" would refer to. Anybody else?
by the way, has anyone here read about the problem C++'s memory model has with "out-of-thin-air" results being hard to rule out?
basically thread 1 copies x -> y using atomic relaxed ops, and thread 2 copies y -> x using atomic relaxed ops, and the end result can be x = y = anything
@JerryCoffin :D
since both threads can paradoxically see the other thread's store before it's load
@Trantorian That's a problem with your code.
01:31
@Rapptz good point man, i'm gonna head home
night guys
@nick G'night.
uses relaxed ops because purrformance, results are fucked up, blames language.
@R.MartinhoFernandes no, it's a LWG issue, I'll like to the issue
user562566
@nick Don't forget to light a candle for lightness at the altar before bed
> The specification in 1.10 of weakly ordered atomics allows an atomic load to essentially see, or not see, the result of any racing store.
I don't get how any of this is a problem.
I'm not blaming anyone for anything: I'm saying it's an issue because the library committee wants to find wording to eliminate the possibility of circular loops
@R.MartinhoFernandes Kinda looking like you and I are the only ones with that particular sort of greasy hands and skinned knuckles. I'm not sure whether to be pleased or frightened...
Races are already categorically UB.
@R.MartinhoFernandes they're atomic ops
01:33
Atomic is irrelevant.
Races are about ordering.
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, read the LWG issue
I only bring it up because i find it funny
i'm not trying to do something like that
Yeah, I am reading it, and it seems to be all about races.
I don't get it and think the whole thing can be dismissed after the first paragraph.
well anyway, I think the line "It effectively models an execution in which the compiler speculates that both atomic variables will have a value of 42, speculatively stores the resulting values, and then performs the loads to confirm that the speculation was correct and nothing needs to be undone." is hilarious
> The two operations in thread 2 are independent and unordered, so either the compiler or hardware can reorder them.
I mean, it's written all over it that it is about races.
i brought it up to the only people IRL that I know would care, and no one else seems to find it as funny as I do
so I was hoping i would have better luck here :)
it's basically like a timelike curve from general relativity
a self-consistent causal dependency loop
like in interstellar
01:37
Google Chrome is taking 3.5GB of my RAM.
sort of
user562566
@Nooble because it's running the secretly installed remote desktop viewer plugin they never told you about when you upgraded
user562566
@Trantorian That storyline was so incoherent
@R.MartinhoFernandes See this conversation at 35m mark. Bjarne being confronted with a UB fanboy.
@TechnikEmpire yeah but I just bring it up because I don't know what other people know about general relativity and timelike curves
user562566
01:39
@Trantorian Yeah but that's kind of a bad example. The story was "the aliens are us from the future sent back into the past to send us from the past into the future to save us in the past"
@TechnikEmpire they're basically solutions to general relativity that allow time travel, but only self-consistently, such that there's only one fixed timeline that you're looping through
@StackedCrooked UB fanboy? dafuq is that
@TechnikEmpire well, do you know enough physics to understand the concept of timelike curves?
@Borgleader See it for yourself :P
user562566
@Trantorian I don't know anything
01:40
@R.MartinhoFernandes After glancing through it, I think roughly the opposite approach makes sense. Right now, they're basically saying: "we accidentally placed requirements on memory_order_relaxed that we didn't intend, so it's more expensive than intended. Since it's expensive anyway, we should add even more restrictions." I think it would be better to make the standard reflect the original intent.
In mathematical physics, a closed timelike curve (CTC) is a world line in a Lorentzian manifold, of a material particle in spacetime that is "closed", returning to its starting point. This possibility was first raised by Kurt Gödel in 1949, who discovered a solution to the equations of general relativity (GR) allowing CTCs known as the Gödel metric; and since then other GR solutions containing CTCs have been found, such as the Tipler cylinder and traversable wormholes. If CTCs exist, their existence would seem to imply at least the theoretical possibility of time travel backwards in time, raising...
@StackedCrooked Maybe later, I should go to bed soon, gotta be up at 5:30AM
@JerryCoffin My dad used to be the mechanic for a local racer. We spent several evenings changing engine blocks and pistons on his car.
@Borgleader Ok, sissi boy.
@TechnikEmpire basically, you can analogize memory model behavior like physics, like in this answer: stackoverflow.com/a/18520606/4894016
user562566
01:42
@Trantorian Right but I'm just saying that the story from interstellar is entirely nonsensical since for the future humans to exist to save the humans in the past, they would have to have already survived the extinction event from the past... which was only survived by the future humans' intervension.
@TechnikEmpire and an "out-of-thin-air" result like discussed in LWG issue N3710 is exactly like a timelike curve under the same analogy
@TechnikEmpire yes, it's a circular dependency loop
user562566
@Trantorian ah okay I see it
just like 42 appearing out of nowhere as described by LWG N3710
user562566
@Trantorian Except somewhere buried beneath bad logic, there is a coherent explanation of how it could actually happen. :)
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, I remember your mentioning at least something about his being a mechanic previously.
01:43
oh man
I worked with him for six summers. It was fun.
I found an evil evil e v i l error in a github repo
@TechnikEmpire thread 1 reads 42 from x and writes it to y because it saw thread 2's write of 42 to x before its read of x, and thread 2 reads 42 from y and writes it to x because it saw thread 1's write of 42 to y before its read of y
I kept debating whether or not I should write some tests for this code I was adding into my project
so glad I caught it... feels good even though its not a huge deal
check this out
flags &operator^=(enum_type e) noexcept {
        val_ &= static_cast<underlying_type>(e);
        return *this;
    }
:]
@Prismatic I can hardly imagine a debate about whether it's worth testing code or not.
user562566
01:46
@JerryCoffin Unless your codes are just perfect
@JerryCoffin You worked with planes or something, right?
@JerryCoffin Well, if you use someone else code, would you test each and every function?
@Borgleader @39m05 "Lock-free is not good enough". (i.e. unsynchronized access beats all.)
@StackedCrooked Oh jeezus =/ Who let the dogs out dumb in
I just did it because the code was fairly short and I made some changes to it... I was actually expecting my changes would have caused an error
01:47
@R.MartinhoFernandes I worked on planes in the Air Force, but I worked on race cars (and some street cars) both before and after that.
Oh, didn't know that.
@JerryCoffin woah, neat
@JerryCoffin Have you done avionics development? Sorry, I don't know the context of this discussion exactly, just saw that comment and am curious...
user562566
I used to build planes
user562566
badass paper planes
01:49
@Borgleader Apparently the older guy is the creator of the actor model.
@Prismatic That would depend. I'd expect they'd tested their code. If I wasn't sure they'd tested it, the debate would be over whether to use that code at all (and lean heavily toward not using it).
@Trantorian In the Air Force I mostly worked on B-52's and KC-135's. They're so old they barely have avionics. The avionics they did have were mostly developed in the 1960's or so.
@JerryCoffin ahh ok...I'm just curious what kind of people they get to write avionics. I never hear of anyone going into defense programming
@JerryCoffin That's so cooool.
@JerryCoffin then again, i don't know anyone working for the NSA either
Is there any way to un add myself from a project on github
someone else added me to their project ... I think its a user name confusion thing
01:52
@Nooble Not really. Mostly ran toward the hot and power-hungry end of the spectrum.
@StackedCrooked I've heard good things about that model
@JerryCoffin :P
Wait... Programmed them or worked as a mechanic?
@Borgleader So have I. @rightfold is a big fan :)
@Nooble I did some programming in the Air Force, but not of avionics.
Ahh ok.
01:54
@Borgleader @44:52 ... :D
@StackedCrooked oh, thats possible, but in my case it was from a universit professor
Ok time for bed now
gnight :)
@Borgleader G'night.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm pretty sure you're wrong that races are always UB by the way: pretty sure unordered atomic ops have to have behavior consistent with the atomic ops happening in some order from the point of view of each thread, and can't just have any arbitrary result
@Borgleader Sweet dreams.
01:55
@Trantorian Not if there are races.
No behaviour is mandated when there are data races.
@R.MartinhoFernandes otherwise the discussion in N3710 doesn't make any sense (and there's other discussion about this elsewhere, not just there)
@Trantorian That's what I've been saying.
@R.MartinhoFernandes open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2013/n3786.htm <- that's from Hans Boehm, who basically wrote the C++ memory model
@R.MartinhoFernandes so I'm pretty sure he would be aware of this whole issue was moot due to the situation being UB
the discussion seems to be predicated based on the idea that the behavior is supposed to be an unspecified ordering of atomic ops from the point of view on any thread, and they would like to prevent causal cycles
but they can't figure out the wording to do so
I did say that I don't get it.
oh i guess the original issue was from Hans too
anyway, maybe e-mail Hans then if you really think you're right
01:59
@R.MartinhoFernandes That discussion doesn't involve data races as defined in the standard. In particular: "The execution of a program contains a data race if it contains two potentially concurrent conflicting actions, at least one of which is not atomic..." In this case, all accesses under discussion are atomic.

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