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user1804599
21:00
ah wait
user1804599
I can see the command it used.
bool DeviceConfig::ReadFile(const std::string& filename)
user1804599
> login -pfq rightfold /usr/bin/man -P ul man
@райтфолд strace told you
user1804599
No, Terminal did.
21:01
@Lucy yup. that'll do too. Inb4 UNICODE win32 API
@райтфолд o.O
user1804599
Ah, it uses ul as pager. Nice.
user1804599
@sehe I can right-click on any word in the terminal and it will open the man page for that word in a new terminal.
When I get into the method, I can see the structure but when I try to assign the string to a member variable it says it's null
@райтфолд (a) don't use mice (b) profit
user1804599
21:02
> The ul utility reads the named files (or standard input if none are given) and translates occurrences of underscores to the sequence which indicates underlining for the terminal in use, as specified by the environment variable TERM.
@Lucy "the structure"? "it says"? "it is null"? What is "it" in each of the three occasions?
user1804599
Nice. :)
Oh, and :
In computer programming, undefined behavior (UB) refers to computer code whose behavior is not specified under certain conditions. The behavior of some programming languages—most famously C and C++—is undefined in some cases. In the standards for these languages, the semantics of certain operations are undefined, so an implementation can assume that such operations never occur in standard-conforming program code, since the implementation will be correct whatever it does in such cases, analogous to don't-care terms in digital logic. This assumption can make various program transformations valid...
user1804599
man -P ul =(pod2man -c 'Mill Documentation' -r 'Mill 0.0.1' doc/milldata.pod) is great.
Hey you know guys, I'm wondering for quite some time now. - Why is there no "python-like" library for containers? So that it would allow for slicing and indexing like you do in python? (basically would depend on overloading the [] operator and adding a slice object which then returns a special iterator that skips/uses half the container - I'm not even asking for the same syntax)
21:04
@Lucy Is your deviceConfig variable null?
@paul23 Nieblers Range v3. Next github.com/ericniebler/range-v3
I can put a watch on the incoming variable and poke down into the variable's structure. Digging deep enough I find the name.
nope
What structure? What variable?
@sehe wut how did you do it so fast?
*get it
@райтфолд Stop trolling
21:05
1 message moved to bin
I must admit that I have little use for null pointers
You got mod abused.
@paul23 experience? not sure that's a good sign
he got binned.
21:05
he bin gotten
The incoming variable (std::string& filename)
@sehe did you use that library before? It doesn't look very mature
If any owner disagrees, let me know.
user1804599
SSCCE or GTFO.
@Lucy Wait, const or not?
21:06
@paul23 Many people did. See his blog. It's a bit immature. And prolly requires c++14
const
There's definitely something you're not showing us.
Like... code.
"did"
@sehe It’s Clang-only I think.
21:07
Even worse.
No. Not really. Literally going from
user1804599
My boyfriend is awesome!
deviceConfig->ReadFile("DeviceConfig.ini");
Well I wonder why there's no boost-like officiality then.. Slice are so damn powerful!
user1804599
Wait, I have no boyfriend. Fuck.
21:07
@paul23 Well Boost Range ("v2" so to speak) is pretty decent. But don't expect miracles
to
bool DeviceConfig::ReadFile(const std::string& filename)
user1804599
ewww
if(!filename.empty()) {
    m_filename = filename;
}
Yes, you already showed us that.
@Lucy Time to ask on Stack Overflow. You need to show actual context (code as text, not screenshot!) and probably will want to narrow it to SSCCE before posting
21:08
Hmm but doing things like: "hello world"[-3:1:-2] is fun :P
user1804599
dat bool
The next line is assign the member variable if the incoming filename is not null.
user1804599
Destructor name.
That's it
user1804599
destruct or DESTRUCT?
21:09
@Lucy I feel like your Internet connection sucks because your replies seem to lag behind the rest of the world.
@paul23 As I remember the new Range proposal has something like that. And some loungers have been implementing their own things. Don't know if they appreciate me dropping names (thinking of 3 in particular) (we get too many vampires), but they will come out if they're ready to tell you about it
hehe guess that's true
@EtiennedeMartel - no! It's probably my brain
@EtiennedeMartel Are you discriminating based on internet connection?
@Jefffrey I only discriminate against Italians.
21:10
@Jefffrey observation
Because I'm jealous of your delicious food.
user1804599
Canade.
user1804599
Canadi.
@EtiennedeMartel Makes sense, continue.
:P
@sehe btw "vampires" what does that mean in the context of this text?
21:11
Dropped a question in a room of "experts".
Couldn't handle the vortex it created
I'm an expert.
I don't know in what.
@EtiennedeMartel what about our politicians? Are you jealous of them as well? We can arrange a trade if you want
161
Q: The Help Vampire problem

Barry KellyWhat is Stack Overflow's long-term solution for the Help Vampire problem? Quote from article follows: Identifying Help Vampires can be tricky, because they look like any ordinary person (or Internet user, whichever is lesser). But by closely observing an individual's behavior using this hand...

@sehe but but vortices are amazing to study
user1804599
21:12
Aye
I used to be a whore, I think.
6
user1804599
Artist's impression added without permission.
user1804599
Vampires and whores love each other, just like in Twilight.
2
how can someone not star that?
So you're saying I just ask to ask? Well that's true, but isn't that the goal of anyone studying/researching?
21:13
I think most of us were whores at some point. Now, we don't give a shit. Nor do we give a fuck. Or a flying fuck. Not even a swimming fuck.
@Mysticial What about a swimming duck?
user1804599
Except Tomavlad.
Cat is our apathic of course
@райтфолд found my source paste.ubuntu.com/10680572 (it was still in ~/camps.dot`). CC0
Cat writes with little to no punctuation.
user1804599
21:14
@sehe it was linked in on Meta Stack Overflow.
I don't know how manages it
@райтфолд :S
@EtiennedeMartel Short concise insults
@EtiennedeMartel is easy
just don't say much
user1804599
Ok, let's document reference counting and structure types.
21:15
Documentation is for scrubs.
And for shrubs.
Ugh guy asks for an interview task to show his skills off, I make the task, guy sends in the code that ignored 90% of explicitly described requirements
@paul23 ikr
@CatPlusPlus so, that served the purpose really well
@CatPlusPlus Excellent candidate, hire right away.
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus blackmail him.
Skills: "cannot read"
You actually judge based on skills?
oO wish the companies I need to sollicit did that
It's not about judging. It's about selecting. You have to use judgement for that (but that's an entirely different thing!)
Lately I've been reviewing a lot of code
John Lakos is WRONG
HAHA THEY HAVE TO GET THROUGH ME FIRST
21:18
@sehe english != my native language... Meant selecting
@CatPlusPlus Sounds like just the task for you
He is saying that the values of two sets that contains the same elements just one in the reverse order of the other should not compare equal
WRONG WRONG WRONG
John who
user1804599
I'd be an excellent interviewer.
user1804599
I'd ask the most obscure and silly questions.
21:20
How is that wrong?
user1804599
About useless trivia.
@paul23 (in fairness, the distinction I make is likely pretty arbitrary. However, it does help to move the dominant thinking from "judging people" or "judging work" to "assessing suitability")
user1804599
Only then I can select people who are like me, i.e. the best.
21:20
@Jefffrey well mathematically, sets behave differently from ordered sets in the standard library
@sehe Oh I see.
@sehe Still in my branch (engineering) those who review applications openly admitted 60% is based on how someone looks/first impression.
> In 1938, Hilter’s nephew wrote an article for Look Magazine titled, ‘Why I Hate My Uncle.’
WAT. Sounds a bit too good to be true, but it was QI Elves who said it
Ah. Hilter - must be a pedant joke
@Jefffrey the key being that the ordering is obervable
Yeah, I'm dumb. Got it.
21:27
Wait, if I understand that I'm dumb, am I automatically not dumb?
I'm shitposting again. Fuck.
What's with flags today
@Jefffrey Hint: he tends to not be wrong in general
Unpleasant, maybe. Wrong, unlikely
user1804599
std::set being ordered is dumb.
user1804599
It's what you almost never need.
user1804599
21:30
std::set should be unordered and std::ordered_set should be ordered.
but then how could we make fun of newbies?
@райтфолд Why not?
user1804599
How often do you need an ordered set?
@райтфолд it's actually just a tree with unique keys
@Jefffrey It's more common to not care about ordering (also for maps)
user1804599
21:31
Seeing std::set as a tree is also dumb.
user1804599
It's an irrelevant implementation detail.
Well, isn't std::set just implemented as being ordered and that's jus what it is?
Oh, it spills out in the interface?
@райтфолд need? nah. Can use? Ok. Probably bad for perf? Yeah. It's gonna be hard to find the container with a shorter name to kick std::set<> from its pole position though
@Jefffrey Gotta have a SWO comparator.
how is an ordered set ordered?
user1804599
21:32
@sehe hence
@Jefffrey It's spilled in the specification (iterators are specified to be in predicate order)
@Puppy SWO?
Strict Weak Order, I guess
user1804599
Silly Wide Operator
Well, that would make sense.
How else would you order it?
21:33
short wanking orgasm
user1804599
std::unordered_set master race.
@JohanLarsson It depends. By default, using std::less, which in turn uses operator <. But you can provide your own comparer
@райтфолд enough, no STL for you tonight. Go to bed
Oh, it hashes. Nice.
user1804599
I am in bed.
21:35
What if there are collisions?
Hashes to hashes, Rust to rust
Keynote: 8 Lines of Code http://www.infoq.com/presentations/8-lines-code-refactoring#.VRMp3gHEXaI.twitter Frightening. Complexity is too damn high
@Jefffrey Each bucket has a linked list
collision handling is well-solved
I see
linear chaining is a simple one
21:35
@AndyProwl sadly bucket lists are rarely optimal and sadly the standard specifies them
hash tables maintain their fucking awesome complexities as long as you keep it under control, it doesn't have to be perfection
@AndyProwl ty ty
@sehe Personally I'd pick them for their fucking awesome iterator invalidation guarantees.
@JohanLarsson np
people who need shitfast performance can write their own hash table
user1804599
21:36
Distributed hash tables are awesome and surprisingly simple.
@Puppy Yeah I like that. But if you wanted speed (it's a hash set anyways) it's not very good. And if the standard just hadn't "leaked" the bucket local iterators it could have been in the open
user1804599
Bit sets are also fascinating.
@райтфолд requires very high quality hashes to not lead to nasty surprises in practice
@райтфолд yeah, use them every day
user1804599
@sehe Why?
user1804599
@sehe We store one in our database. :)
21:38
just typed another 240 of them
user1804599
days bit(7) NOT NULL
@райтфолд I hope it's a bloomfilter or allocation map of sorts
@райтфолд ah the allocation map then; I should have remembered
user1804599
@sehe you have a list of IPs and choose the computer at the smallest hash(IP) higher than hash(key), wrapping around at the edge cases.
user1804599
Then you know where the value is stored.
computers are the meta buckets. This is known as partitioning afaik
@райтфолд The problem is with migrating/scaling
user1804599
21:41
idc it's awesome
user1804599
@sehe As always.
user1804599
Fault tolerance is also fun.
user1804599
I should learn about Paxos.
user1804599
I should also implement Postduif.
Google cstring. go to images. WIN
21:45
@CatPlusPlus do they mention what they normally use?
@DonLarynx lol
@райтфолд Have fun with that
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus :3
I don't even have to read the code to know it's broken
user1804599
21:50
:P
Consensus algos are tricky as fuck
real programmers like real challenges: be an efficient programmer with OZ (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oz_%28programming_language%29)
> The execution speed of a program produced by the Mozart Compiler (version 1.4.0 implementing Oz 3) is very slow. On a set of benchmarks it is on average about 50 times slower than that of the gcc compiler for the C language, solving the benchmarks-tasks.
It's a teaching language
Who cares whether the implementation is fast or not
gotta go fast
@CatPlusPlus that's the challenge
21:55
laffo ~~~journalists~~~ picked up that "research" itworld.com/article/2901453/…
user1804599
> The British Parliament has approved a new IVF technique that uses the process of mitochondrial transfer to produce a baby with the DNA of a father and two mothers, which would allow women with certain genetic mutations to have children. What do you think?
user1804599
> Just great, I already have enough trouble explaining where regular babies come from.
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus The companies who use it because it's the only thing the people they hire know.
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus oh god that website is absolutely terrible.
@CatPlusPlus Wait. University of Calgary and University of British Columbia?
Well, that explains everything.
21:58
It actually explains nothing.
It's the RoC. They're idiots.
Typical Quebec nationalist.
smh
user1804599
do you know One Direction
user1804599
#cutforzayn on twitter top kek
user1804599
> geared towards real-world applications. It was initially developed at the University Of Melbourne
user1804599
22:03
I should learn Mercury.
user1804599
It uses uniqueness typing instead of monads for doing I/O.
user1804599
> It is slightly unfortunate that the “Hello, World!” program introduces no less than three advanced Mercury concepts
user1804599
Nice, no tool shittification because it simplifies the beginner's tutorial.
German toilets are so weird.
user1804599
AWESOME
user1804599
22:13
UNIQUENESS TYPING
What is the rationale for boost.intrusive_ptr? Better performance?
@Rapptz I can only imagine your remark was prompted when you randomly ran into a feral German toilet in the wild, wherever you are.
@AndyProwl Yes, what else
No idea
22:17
What's weird about that toilet
@Rapptz eww rapptz, why?
user1804599
@AndyProwl I use it because I need ways to control the refcount other than through std::shared_ptr.
I won't want to see a toilet in the breakfast time slot~_~
@райтфолд What kind of control do you need?
user1804599
I don't want my JIT compiler to know how to poke std::shared_ptr's internals.
user1804599
22:19
Instead I want to emit calls to retain and release functions that take a pointer to the value.
I wish shared_ptr had a release() function
I don't
too messy to start handing over the refcount to the user.
I want to be able to get a unique pointer from a shared pointer if the shared pointer is the last owner
@AndyProwl Race condition > you
22:21
@AndyProwl reset() is close
That will destroy the pointee if it is the last one
you can't know for sure that you're the last one, generally speaking.
even if you check the refcount
The shared pointer can
it can throw if it's not the last owner
no, it can't
because another thread can be incrementing it at the same time.
Even if we had an 'atomic' std::unique_ptr<T, some_sort_of_deleter> release(); which resulted in a null pointer if it failed, what would you do with it? Busy poll?
22:24
even if you check it and you're the only one, that doesn't mean you're the only one.
Seems like a pit of mistakes to me :v
yep.
shared_ptr should not offer any feature for inspecting the refcount.
the only reasonable approach would be if some_sort_of_deleter made the unique_ptr uniquely own one reference to the T.
Yet it does.
but in that case what would be the point, except for generic code.
It has a use_count() and unique() member function.
22:26
@Rapptz Just more proof that a solid part of the Committee are on crack.
@LucDanton Why busy poll? I don't understand
If I obtain the pointer, I know I'm the only owner
no you don't
"if I obtain the pointer"
@AndyProwl It’s about the 'if not'.
you can only know that if you have a value somewhere where you know it's impossible for another thread to access.
22:27
@LucDanton Ah, got it
which is not a general-case thing.
But what should I do if I know for sure in my application that I'm having only one shared pointer to an object, and need to pass ownership to a function that takes a unique pointer (because it wants to be the only owner)?
don't do that
@AndyProwl dunno
pretty much all you could do is copy the underlying object and issue a unique_ptr to that.
22:29
It’s one of those situations where the mismatch between what’s known and what can be statically proved is daunting.
@Puppy Well, currently I have no way of doing that so yeah I won't
you could also be extreme and make a deleter with a shared_ptr in it
If I have a valid c++ program. Albeit somewhat provoking to the underlying OS. The program
Oh
@Puppy Interesting
crashes the entire OS, where can we put the blame?
22:31
OS.
the OS should never crash regardless of what userspace programs do.
valid program or not
@Puppy indeed.
He didn't say it's userspace though
in fact
Now this is also a valid c++ program.
OS should be written on the assumption that it's not valid.
22:32
It is userspace, a regular compiled 5 liner.
lol, ok then it's an OS fail
what does the 5 liner do?
if it's in userspace then the validity, length, or source language are all immaterial
Yes, but in my opinion that is not the only fail.
So this is the case: int main try{ while(true) new char[about a gig]; } catch (std::bad_alloc bad){} }
Actually crashes a lot of 64 bit windows. Compiled on msvc.
Apparently needs to be compiled as x64.
could be Expected Behaviour­™ if you're running as 32bit and used some of those funny large-address extensions that reduce the amount of address space available to kernelspace
large address catches the exception. x64 does not.
Regardless, this funny looking snippet should not crash the entire system.
22:38
laff sockjs-tornado has a specific support for JSESSIONID cookie
Nothing else, no pluggable session support, just this one thing
That is very very far away from Python world
The sheer unquality of software is beyond my comprehension
Xeo
Xeo
Hm, Caster's kinda fun. Got 2h so far for 14 cents
Xeo
Xeo
Check Steam
So is Windows x64 such a brittle beast, all I need to do is ask for too much memory? and it goes down in blue and black flames?
Oops, a lot of people running Windows x64 on their mains actually tried it. I'm so sorry. Your system32 is still intact i hope.
I feel alone and abandoned. You weren't supposed to run it!
Guys?
I'm so sorry!
IOW, x64 is crashing because it's letting a bad program hog all the memory?
22:50
Yep.
It's one of the reasons why I love that 32-bit apps are capped to 4GB. Because they can't kill my machine.
I am not sure I trust you,, @CaptainGiraffe :P
It is only reproducable with a x64 compiled executable on a Windows 64-bit system.
user1804599
Mercury is cool.
Thats what I hear.
22:51
so is Cadmium, @райтфолд
user1804599
main(Strings, !IO) :-
    ( if   list.length(Strings, 5)
      then io.format("%s\n", [s(string.join_list(", ", Strings))], !IO)
      else io.read_line_as_string(IOString, !IO),
           ( if   IOString = ok(String)
             then main([string.strip(String) | Strings], !IO)
             else io.write_string("Oops!\n", !IO)
           )
    ).
user1804599
This is the most beautiful code I have ever written.
I hope that's not the case
@райтфолд Oh dear.
@райтфолд so many brackets
user1804599
22:58
Not more than in the equivalent <your favourite language here> program. They're just in a different place.

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