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1:01 PM
man all this smart pointer shit is such a pain in the ass
shared_ptr: works fine with incomplete types, unique_ptr: nope~!
@ScarletAmaranth What.
Do you know what Void in Haskell is?
a type has no values
Yes, it's 0. It has no use in Haskell except as a curio in the type system (so you can use for type-level metaprogramming, I guess).
@AndyProwl I'm wholeheartedly for it. I wish I could be more help on an implementation.
sure you can use Void in Haskell; there are computations that never yield
1:06 PM
The type that matches C++'s void is 1, ().
@Pris what are you complaining about. Of course, there are differences in behaviour too (OMG)
@VittorioRomeo your question says absolutely NOTHING about optimization. A Reminder that NDEBUG is preprocessor and can be defined even in a release build. a) very clearly state that this is for debug mode only b) make it clear that in stating such it's a revision of the question. — Mgetz 4 mins ago
@ScarletAmaranth Yes, and that is useless.
well... void is somewhere between a unit () and Void
@Mgetz "NDEBUG is preprocessor and can be defined even in a release build" - wait wat. I think you reversed something
1:07 PM
there is a value of void (void()) but you can't assign it - which you can with a unit
so I am not sure about void is ()
@sehe nope, it's just preprocessor
@ScarletAmaranth It isn't Void. Nothing in C++ is Void.
user1804599
> 1000's of Russian beauties are hoping to connect with you TODAY
user1804599
seems legit
@R.MartinhoFernandes exactly
@R.MartinhoFernandes Luc said something about being able to simulate it
1:08 PM
@Mgetz Whoosh.
regardless my answer is no longer valid for the question and I've deleted it
@sehe idunno I'm just salty I guess. Seen one too many compile errors today
but I can't think of a use case for C++
@Pris unique_ptr works perfectly fine with incomplete types - just make sure the destructor is instantiated when the type is complete.
@ScarletAmaranth Well, you can just make a type whose sole constructor blocks.
1:09 PM
@Mgetz of course a release build defines NDEBUG (if it is at all required by the code)
@R.MartinhoFernandes but you can't express this "blocking" on type level
@milleniumbug This :) Of course, that's assuming default deletor /cc @Pris
@ScarletAmaranth This type with that constructor is that expression.
@Mgetz Sorry, I agree with him. He didn't come out and say explicitly that he was referring to non-optimised builds, but I don't think he needed to since failing to define NDEBUG conventionally implies that a library is to do debuggy things.
@sehe at this point I'm walking away from the question, it was unclear and I answered the best I could. The OP was asking a different question than they originally posted
1:10 PM
struct blocks { blocks() { volatile bool silly = true; while(silly) {} } };
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh; I am not sure I understand now
user1804599
Maybe that layer idea I once had wasn't such a bad idea afterall.
Now blocks f(); cannot return.
@Mgetz I'm not talking about the question. Remember, you posted a comment in the lounge. I'm referring to your own claim in the comment. Does NDEBUG not mean "no debug"?
It can throw, but so can pure functions in Haskell (ew).
1:11 PM
@sehe at this point I don't give a shit. Sorry I'm tired and annoyed with this garbage
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's because IO stuff is pure... you still have that information in type
@ScarletAmaranth No, I mean that f :: Int can throw.
(And so can f :: Void)
<yawn> a hoy hoy
@R.MartinhoFernandes mmm; you are right - actually just catching is impure... I think
@Jefffrey oh yeah, I got a call from friend like the day I left :\ I'll try remember to sort it out tonight (init 6)
user1804599
1:18 PM
@ScarletAmaranth pure catches would not work with exceptions such as OOM.
@райтфолд right... well, anyway - I am not sure I'd have a use for Void (or however you want to call an uninhabited type) in C++
user1804599
In Mercury you can catch exceptions in pure code.
how is that pure if the computation can change depending on the exception you catch?
user1804599
Nondeterminism.
@райтфолд Pure throws make "pure" sort of meaningless.
1:23 PM
@райтфолд nondeterminism is impure
user1804599
@ScarletAmaranth Tell that the list monad.
@райтфолд it's just an interpretation of a list really
it's not technically a nondeterministic value
you can access "all of the states" anyway
user1804599
Impure language master race anyway.
((head []) == 0) && y
Nondeterminism!
Lack of referential transparency!
Impurity!
1:29 PM
@ScarletAmaranth It can change without catches being involved.
Just throws are enough to ruin everything.
user1804599
Exceptions are nice.
@R.MartinhoFernandes so they're the new Hitler?
user1804599
Especially if specified and checked in a non-obtrusive manner.
@райтфолд exactly the way C++ does it... oh wait
user1804599
(I.e. not Java and not error monad.)
@BartekBanachewicz wish I had bothered to get a laptop that I could have brought to my parents, those look like good reads. Plus TAG would have come on a fair bit what with all the TV I ended up watching :\
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol. I knew that happened but the log is funny to read
user1804599
This must be horrible: devfort.com
user1804599
Mostly because the kind of people who go to such things are horrible.
do you guys remember this guy? cyborg.co/#nicolas-dupont
1:35 PM
> Now imagine that place is a fort.
WHERE DO I SIGN UP
@райтфолд The peeps from spacelog are quite nice.
@райтфолд The updates mysteriously stopped in 2010
@thecoshman :P
I'm so fucking tired with programming and git
another merge fuckup that cost me 2 hours
@BartekBanachewicz try not fucking up vOv
maybe it's time to explore another career opportunities
maybe I'm not meant to be a programmer after all
@BartekBanachewicz If you could choose another career RIGHT NOW what would it be
Nothing ridiculous allowed, must be feasible
ie, you can't be a spacetronaut or a billionaire ceo
user1804599
1:40 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I love them!
@Pris I don't think 'hipster' is an actual job though
@Pris The Ottomans came.
@Pris no idea. Everything seems fucked up.
I'd like to be a coffee barista I think
@R.MartinhoFernandes Maybe they realized web development without an internet connection wasn't the hottest idea
or sound technician/guitar tech/guitar gear reviewer
1:43 PM
I'd just be a mechanical engineer, as I wanted to before I got sucked into programming. Failing that, garbage collector.
@Pris Or maybe they cut off their internet connection completely, so they're still doing fine, but no more updates to the web site.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hey, me too! (the engineer bit anyway)
@Veritas he needs to ease up on the fake tan
@Veritas lol dat copy
@Pris Though gin distiller sounds really nice.
I would study math, then understand that I am not gonna invent anything valuable and die as poor nerd.
1:49 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think itd be fun to run a microbrewery
fixing cars could also be cool
@khajvah You dont need to study math to understand that last bit
especially race cars
@khajvah ...or you might understand it incredibly well, invent something awesome, get a Fields medal...and die as a poor nerd anyway.
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's a rubbish job
1:49 PM
@BartekBanachewicz When I was younger I wanted to be a motorcycle mechanic
@BartekBanachewicz Been there, done that. Meh.
I was a cook for 4 months, it was interesting too
It's either boring or frustrating.
Not very unlike programming.
@R.MartinhoFernandes see
for how long have you been doing that?
could I get an internship as a car mechanic?
what would I need to know
1:53 PM
@chris Heh, that's my problem. I know nothing about Clang/LLVM and very little about compiler internals in general, and the implementation is fundamental not only to get the Committee's support, but to check that my ideas do actually work (it's hard to tell without doing something concrete with them)
How a car works
user1804599
@AndyProwl can you make a preprocessor?
@Jefffrey Easy, you put the gear to D, push the pedal, black magic happens and it moves
@райтфолд Back in the days I thought about it, and I seem to recall coming to the conclusion that it would have been impractical. I was reading a paper about Signatures (an old project based on GCC) and they were showing all the issues with a preprocessor approach
@BartekBanachewicz At least here, they aren't terribly picky about how much you know to start with. Most places pay "per book hour", which means they have a book with lists of jobs, and how long each should take to complete. You get paid based on how long that job should take. If you don't know much, and it takes you five times that long, you still only get paid for the time it should have taken. So, if you're really good, you can make quite a bit of money--bit if you're slow, you may starve.
1:55 PM
@Jefffrey an engine, controlled by the driver, applies the force to the wheels. They make the car ride forward. If you turn a steering wheel, the wheels apply the turning force that changes direction.
Would I would need is to automagically absorb knowledge/experience from you and Puppy and get the stuff done
@BartekBanachewicz They have car mechanic courses at most community colleges
and time, too
user1804599
I know nothing about clang.
user1804599
Only about LLVM.
1:56 PM
How does the engine works in detail? What pressure should the wheels have? etc
@AndyProwl implying either of us gets stuff done
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz For some definition of "done", I'd say that's the case
@райтфолд And compiler internals in general
@LightnessRacesinOrbit what copy?
@Jefffrey The typical ICE works in an Otto cycle. The cylinders cycle [intake, compression, combustion, exhaust]. During intake, fuel and air is injected into the chamber. Then it's compressed, ignited, the pressure rises and pushes the piston down. After that it pushes the exhaust gases out.
1:58 PM
@BartekBanachewicz What you have just proven there is the same knowledge of someone coming here and saying that programming is about writing code that gets executed by the computer to produce output on the screen.
user1804599
@AndyProwl I know very little about type checking.
@BartekBanachewicz I did it for some six summers.
@R.MartinhoFernandes "some six summers"
@BartekBanachewicz I "got the job" because it was my dad's garage.
@BartekBanachewicz Alliteration.
@Jefffrey the wheel pressure is specified in a manual of a particular car and is dependent on the size and number of wheels and the weight and load of the car.
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh cool.
@R.MartinhoFernandes :)
1:59 PM
@BartekBanachewicz You need practical knowledge too, like looking at a typical engine, doing basic maintenance, replacing the timing belt etc, being able to diagnose common problems
@райтфолд I have a very very faint idea of how compiler works in theory (like, the translation phases and stuff) and that's all my know-how
@AndyProwl pfff
I started reading the dragon book last year but had to stop due to lack of time
@AndyProwl you should do the C++ GrandMaster course :P
It was an interesting read but of little practical benefit
1:59 PM
I wanna be a designer with no consideration of practicality

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