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Xeo
Xeo
19:00
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes you did
@R.MartinhoFernandes Where did he obtain Winston Churchill blood?
user1804599
I want to go back to work.
@R.MartinhoFernandes -.-
user1804599
I should sleep at work; saves effort in the morning.
19:11
@FredOverflow My jurisdiction doesn't have full equality for software libraries.
@Puppy Wait, your wife won't let you use boost?
I don't have a wife
and I can't make Boost my wife as per your suggestion
My wife doesn't let me C++ at night
Booze won't let me seep at night.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I get very alert on trains and busses, can't relax unless I'm heading to terminus.
that said, if I'm not hyper alert, I'm nearly unconscious :\
19:21
I'm really tired suddenly
there was one time when I was sick overnight and fell asleep on the train to the jobcentre
@FredOverflow std::optional is not std right? was planned for 14 but is now pulled
@thecoshman Oh right, we just discussed that the other day.
o_0 I'm so out of touch... is 14 even a standard? I thought 11 is the current, with 17 being the next?
I always get confused between Java, Scala and C++ optional types.
19:24
yes 14 is a Standard, although not a big one.
I'm really paranoid about falling asleep on public transit. I imagine ending up back at the station on the last train and I'm hours from home... scary thoughts
@FredOverflow at least it's not crack I'm smoking
@Puppy when they get to 17, it's legal enough :D
@Pris There was a German movie about that 10 years ago.
user1804599
@FredOverflow I solve that by only using Scala.
Creep is a 2004 independent British horror film written and directed by Christopher Smith, about a woman locked in overnight on the London Underground who finds herself being stalked by a hideously deformed killer living in the sewers below. The film was first shown at the Frankfurt Fantasy Filmfest in Germany on 10 August 2004. == §Plot == The film opens with two sewer workers in London, Arthur (Ken Campbell) and George (Vas Blackwood), who discover a tunnel in one of the walls that neither of them is familiar with. Arthur enters and George follows. He soon discovers Arthur, injured and in a state...
so what was wrong with optional to keep it out of 14?
@Xeo isnt bluez the name of a bluetooth library
@thecoshman I guess you could say they thought its inclusion was optional
@Pris probably vOv
@Pris ergh... fine... jerk
Sorry, I hadn't even punned once today had to get it out of my system
@thecoshman They fucked up the relational operators bigtime.
19:28
@Puppy oh...
and by that what I mean is
the operators are already totally fucked up and they couldn't choose between being consistently fucked up, which is dumb, or changing it to be not fucked up.
user1804599
I learned a lot today.
user1804599
About Unix domain sockets and file permissions.
vOv for now std::pair<bool, T> will suffice :P
> Matthew Turner ViewLondon said "The performances are good, particularly Potente, who avoids scream queen clichés by making her character surprisingly unlikeable - Kate is rude and arrogant in her early scenes and the fact that she's German is, of course, a coincidence.
mehehe
@Xeo interesting
@райтфолд where
user1804599
19:34
At work.
What the hell is a 'C++ runtime library'
It's a runtime library for C++
19:40
Is it the same thing as the c++ standard library? like libc++
Clang's website says: "thread_local support currently requires the C++ runtime library from g++-4.8 or later."
It's your compiler's runtime. It's the thing that gets linked in to your executable automatically in order to provide definitions for the stdlib implementation as well as other stuff that's needed to make it work.
The code you write and the definitions you provide are insufficient
Think of it like the starter motor and doors for your car
kinda
The routines to initialise static data members are in your toolchain's C++ runtime, for example
as is an entrypoint function that invokes said routines, and does some other stuff, and eventually calls your main (then waits for it to return and invokes static destructors!)
@Rapptz I don't think that's it
19:44
not the C++ one specifically no
it's the language independent one
yes
so it's not the "C++ runtime library" that was asked about :)
I already know that
'tis an example of what a runtime library provides.
19:49
it looks like thread_local support is shit
stupid clang
stupid microsoft
If compilers don't even fully support a standard that's over three years old now maybe the language is just too complicated. Whats the point of adding a bunch of neat features that you can't even use
compilers are ridiculously ridiculously ridiculously ridiculously ridiculously ridiculously ridiculously complicated
be fair
My GCC supports thread_local just fine.
19:55
@BartekBanachewicz am I right in think that my index buffer can't say "vertex coord N, texture cord M"?
Important changes
when you're not invited to a birthday gathering and then the night comes and everyone's like are you coming are you coming duh the invite was implicit only randomers get actual invitations come on right now when I'm in the middle of something
there's little i hate more than last minute notice
last second notices?
@Rapptz its clang that doesnt
@Pris Let me turn that around: given that it takes years to write and approve even minor additions to a standard, what would be the point of omitting the feature set you expect implementations to include before you can release the next standard?
19:56
My clang supports thread_local just fine
Clang supports thread_local as long as you don't do shenanigans.
Like trying to use it with libc++ with libc++abi on Linux. :D
Now it's correct.
Now it's correct.
:D
Alright, back to fixing this code of mine.
MSVC supports C++ as long as you don't use it
9
@JerryCoffin I was just ranting. Its frustrating to not be able to use features that were finalized years ago.
@BartekBanachewicz What's that?
Yaaaay, fixed my code again.
Now to fix it yet again.
20:00
I still can't get this stats data model straight in my head
not sure why I'm still even trying at 8pm
feeling quite frustrated today
@CatPlusPlus be starred
@CatPlusPlus be starred x2.
@Pris Believe me, I realize that (and agree). Nonetheless, it seems like the obvious alternative would be worse.
@JerryCoffin Is this a problem that plagues other languages? like Java or Python?
20:09
Python is not subject to standardisation
Java has a committee too these days I think
Without ISO red tape over your head you can iterate on the language much faster
@Pris It's common to essentially all languages that are defined by a standard that's separate from an implementation. A few languages are basically defined as whatever some particular implementation does/includes, which eliminates the problem, at least for that implementation. Otherwise, at least some lag between approval and implementation is common (nearly inevitable).
Plus most languages have reference implementations to go with the spec
And are much simpler
@Pris Microsoft technically doesn't support c++98
as they don't support two phase lookup
@Mgetz Nobody but Comeau ever really even claimed to support C++98.
user1804599
lol two phase lookup
20:13
@Pris Java doesn't have Sparkly Bjarne
@Nooble so handsome
user1804599
yo asio got an update
@райтфолд He's not as glorious as Sparkly Bjarne. No one will ever be. He shall be a close second.
we have sparkly bjarne, mop top scott and herb 'the nullptr' sutter
The Java guys have Gosling... Pythonistas have Rossum
20:17
mm Emmy Rossum
I wonder who'd win in a celebrity boxing match
Homeland best 2014 series
Holy shit
They managed to make me wtf at the 6th episode
user1804599
I want to sleep.
What's stopping you
user3010322
20:22
Christ
user3010322
2 months into the semester and we're still on getchar() and io redirection.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit She looks sad. I love it.
2
user3010322
"Why one byte?"
I've just realized I'm a horrible person.
user3010322
Because English is the only thing that mattered to people back in the day.
20:27
Quick poll: Which, if any, graphical linux git tools do you use? I just tried gitk and it seems really nice.
Xeo
Xeo
I use ThePhD. He's a very graphical tool.
user1804599
@FredOverflow A terminal emulator.
Welp, Minecraft time.
user3010322
@Xeo I'm not sure how I should feel about that.
user3010322
20:31
But I kinda like it.
Xeo
Xeo
:D
user3010322
Oh man
user3010322
We're talking about Windows 1252 code pages now
user3010322
And other 256 value character encodings
Keep us updated
user3010322
20:34
"double is 4 bytes" my tears. ;~;
user3010322
"And sometimes 8."
@FredOverflow cli bro
@Jefffrey oh, good idea :D
user3010322
I don't know if SourceTree works on Linux, but if it does I'd use that @FredOverflow
user3010322
...
user3010322
int as 4 bytes goes from -2^16-1 to 2^16
user3010322
20:39
Sweet deal.
user3010322
Hopefully he'll catch his mistake in a moment...
user3010322
... And there we go, he caught it.
user3010322
"In the future, if you can afford 8 bytes."
user3010322
What present is he living in? .-.
21:00
why is this room so far down in the "active" list
i almost joined the wrong room
We haven't talked in 17 minutes.
user3010322
WHO WANTS TO SEE MY HOMEWORK ASSIGNMENT FOR C? :D
@ThePhD what is it?
user3010322
@Blob It's hex string printing. :c
@thecoshman Do you know if someone in the lounge has a server or something?
I know there was one, but then it died.
21:07
@Jefffrey I do :P
Really? Ow. Is there someone there already?
@Jefffrey not from here.
well, me obviously
Nice
Not sure if I can be arsed to keep paying for it though
user3010322
I have my own small server.
user3010322
21:08
But it's a really tiny instance.
user3010322
Nothing huge.
@thecoshman How much are you paying, if I may ask
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus Has a server(s?), too. I think.
it's a few bob, but considering it doesn't see much multiplaying vOv
@Jefffrey like €10 - €15 a month I think
That's a lot indeed
21:09
it's private server, not a special MC host service
10.99 a month it seems :D
I only run adhoc instances now
No point running it all month if we play for few hours every week or so
yeah, but friends play on it as well, so easier to just leave it up 24/7
I think we should have a Lounge Civ 5 Pitboss Server.
inb4 flop
PitBoss is Windows-only
It's a pain to run
21:15
Lounge Minecraft server would be nice.
they come and go :P
Lounge KSP Server could be done with the MP mod.
@CatPlusPlus Linux players can't host a Pitboss game?
there's a KSP MP mod?
Yep :)
Here's the wiki article.
@Puppy Here's the mod specifically.
21:21
@Nooble We are too fucked up to do anything for long periods of time.
@Jefffrey :C
Every new initiative has a momentum of generally 7 days at maximum.
I've been working on Wide for like, maybe five years.
every lounge initiative
@Blob He was probably talking about this:
> Every new initiative has a momentum of generally 7 days at maximum.
21:27
@Nooble i was adding on to jefffrey's thing
correcting it, rather
to fit puppy's statement
@Puppy it's... meh
@Blob Ahh okay.
@Puppy that's not a lounge thing.
an individual lounger has great potential, but like opposing particles, when they get together they neutralise all potentail.
@thecoshman So we are all opposite each to the other? :D
@wilx sounds pretty accurate to me
21:29
@wilx yes... we operate in a VERY high dimensional space
@thecoshman :D
well, I say operate
21:45
would I be doing my son a disservice by teaching him to code? I just often hear prodigies in music and whatnot start when they are like 4, so I'd like to give him that chance, but I also find coding somewhat miserable and don't want to force him to do what I do
@JDiMatteo if he's interested, go for it. if he resists it, don't force it.
how old is he?
judging from your avatar, he's too young ._.
@Blob thanks, sounds reasonable. he is just 3, I figure it is still a couple years off at least, but was just thinking about it
lol, I'll just have him use voice to text to dictate the code since he can't read or write yet
...
i think you should just wait until he's 7-10.
5 year olds coding isn't really a thing
ok. he did find it interesting to work with me to design and test a simple iphone game for him. I didn't realize a 3 year old had enough patience for that, but he just kept telling me to work on the game, lol
@JDiMatteo Dictation isn't accurate enough for that yet, especially for a three-year-old.
21:58
@Puppy: I was kidding
also
if he can't read and write you really ought to get started on that
yay found a team to play CS with
really happy it's not random people anymore :')
user3010322
\o/
user3010322
Now I'm in the good class, Context-Free-Grammars!
user3010322
@Puppy Is Wide describable by a Context Free Grammar?
22:05
Yes
Throw throw throw away your worries
heh
user3010322
If it is, for fun I might implement a lexer for it.
Wide is LALR(1).
user3010322
For the shits 'n' giggles of it.
also, lexers and CFGs are completely different things, you peasant.
CFGs are for parsers.
22:06
Lexers don't care if grammar is context-free or not
Well, mostly
Dunno how contextual keywords are usually implemented
user3010322
@Puppy Uh.... and the difference between lexers vs. parsers is for... taking an input stream of tokens...?
er
lexers are range adapters converting a range of characters to a range of tokens.
parsers take a range of tokens and output an AST.
In computer science, lexical analysis is the process of converting a sequence of characters into a sequence of tokens, i.e. meaningful character strings. A program or function that performs lexical analysis is called a lexical analyzer, lexer, tokenizer, or scanner, though "scanner" is also used for the first stage of a lexer. A lexer is generally combined with a parser, which together analyze the syntax of programming languages, such as in compilers, but also HTML parsers in web browsers, among other examples. Strictly speaking, a lexer is itself a kind of parser – the syntax of some programming...
Parsing or syntactic analysis is the process of analysing a string of symbols, either in natural language or in computer languages, conforming to the rules of a formal grammar. The term parsing comes from Latin pars (orationis), meaning part (of speech). The term has slightly different meanings in different branches of linguistics and computer science. Traditional sentence parsing is often performed as a method of understanding the exact meaning of a sentence, sometimes with the aid of devices such as sentence diagrams. It usually emphasizes the importance of grammatical divisions such as subject...
user3010322
Oh.
user3010322
Hokay.
22:08
@CatPlusPlus If I had to do it I'd pass a flag back to the lexer telling it what I'm expecting, so it doesn't have to know how that shit works.
I guess you could lex them as identifiers and figure it out in the grammar
Maybe
Anyway
that reminds me
I should get around to fixing the thing where you can only pass 1 constructor parameter in the initializer list
user3010322
@Puppy Can your initializer lists be tuples?
sure
> The new MacBook uses Apple's latest unibody architecture. It's the first fanless MacBook ever, and uses Intel's Core M processor running up to 1.3GHz.

All of that power only consumes 5 watts of power.
fanless laptop
that's something new
22:18
5 watts?
that's what this chick says
that'd be one hell of a battery life for a laptop/notebook
I don't know physics
user3010322
5 Watts*
user3010322
* when doing nothing
22:18
ah yeah
5 watts under load, that's impressive.
5 watts idle, not so much.
I think the fanless part is the highlight
I've never seen fanless laptops
user3010322
Fanless, good lord.
user3010322
You're not doing anything fancy on that thing.
that's pretty much implied.
user3010322
22:19
Which is strange, because Air™ are the ones that are supposedto be the ones for doing minimal things.
@ThePhD I thought those were for making pancakes.
> Available in silver, space gray and gold, the new MacBook will start at $1299 with 8GB of RAM and 256GB of storage.
I'd definitely expect it to be able to run most apps well for that price
lol 1299 for 8GB
Why would you buy an Apple crapware
I wouldn't
the fanless bit stood out
user3010322
22:24
Apples are always +500 the price for the same specs.
I'm drinking a liquid
user3010322
So it looks like LALR(k) are context free grammar-able.
user3010322
Context-Sensitive Grammars become fuck-hard and is that what C++ is?
@ThePhD 500% you mean
user3010322
Hm. The HLSL Grammar can beparsed with a regular recursive descent parser /cc @melak47 @Borgleader
user3010322
22:30
Maybe I can use that to automatically convert to GLSL code / SPIR-V code.
@Puppy Well, what else could you be drinking? A solid?
user3010322
A gas.
user3010322
Liquid Air™ - Taste the Clarity
@CatPlusPlus For most people, as a fashion accessory :P
@ThePhD Recursive descent can parse anything, because it's a freehand function call.
user3010322
@Puppy And, some more digging seems like it's handle-able by a LALR(1) parser!
user3010322
I wish you could allow C++ to inject namespaces in generic code. :c
if it's LL then it's LALR
Packrat everything
EVERYTHING
HTC is still updating my phone
22:40
So apparently you can force bit flips in non-ECC memory
In an exploitable manner
once they release their new flagship it will be 2 generations old
So that's cool
this begs the obvious question
namely, is there anything, at all, ever, that is not exploitable?
NOPE
Everything is shit
22:42
Time to invest in ECC RAM
How come this works, but this doesn't? Is it parsing weirdly? Forgive me if it is obvious.
@chmod711telkitty Nice.
Xeo
Xeo
Parsing, ye
~ is bit negation
you shouldn't call the destructor manually anyway unless you're doing placement new
@Nooble thanks :)
22:49
@Rapptz Yeah, I'm not going to, just found it weird.
IIRC in visual studio it compiles.
when in doubt, MSVC is wrong
not always
Any way to force it to think that I mean "call the destructor" instead of "use the ~ operator"?
this->~T()
Xeo
Xeo
You already found how. Not that'd you'd normally call the dtor directly from inside the class anyways
22:52
Ok then.
Ooops.
I lost the cap of my scalpel.
I'm going to die.
oh dear
if I were you robot I'd buy another one sharpish
Ladies and gentleman, may I present to you the questlamation mark: ‽
no you may not
It's called an interrobang
23:00
I know, but that name is so non-exciting.
@Puppy Please‽
no.
Phew. Found it.
merely observing this idea gave me cancer as bad as ThePhD's code
How bad can his code be?
isn't thePhD a microsoft intern now or was that a while ago
23:07
Oh great I forgot to extend the partition on the DB server
Ugh I hate these crappy adhoc images
Chuck Norris jokes in AD 2015.
Totally not 10 years out of date
is there some nice tool to draw trees (like for minimax, ASTs, that type of crap)
i need to show my teacher how to do a probability problem (genetics related)
23:15
Pen and paper
i tried
it's unreadably shit
maybe i need a larger sized paper so i can use up for horizontal space
ah typical
the government owes me money but their website is full of only how you can pay them money instead of the other way around.
'the government owes me money'... you mean the taxpayers?
well, not really
they overcharged me
I'll probably have to wait until the end of the month and I get my P60
23:51
Seems pointless. You can make a function to display what you want to display, and call that.
seems pretty odd
> "#line number greater than 32767 is incompatible with C++98"
really now
@Isaiah I do think it’s problematic in that it subverts the usual semantics of stream insertion.
You normally expect stream insertion to format the object, but your object is empty. Instead you will (presumably) show some other parts of the program.
Of course there are also io manipulators, but I think that’s a stretch.
tfw considering a configuration singleton
@Isaiah Operators are no more or no less generic than regular functions.
@Isaiah Which is not what operator<< typically does. That’s my whole point.
If I do int i = 0, j = 4; stream << j; it is the information in j that is used. Not anything else in the whole program.
What should I use for 'global' configuration? In the past I've done free functions in .hpp and then a global object pointing to the configuration in the .cpp file that implemented the configuration free functions.
23:59
@Rapptz I use a context object.

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