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07:00
@FredOverflow The problem is that C++ cannot deprecate it's older features that are inherent to the language
I have 4 years experience in teaching C++, and I have stopped teaching arrays and pointers altogether. It's just completely useless knowledge for beginners.
@FredOverflow Hm...
@Cinch If you want to teach the whole language, you should plan a 2 year curriculum, minimum.
@FredOverflow That does sound good.
@Cinch, One of your images in 0.1 is kill
07:01
@FredOverflow Where have you taught at?
University of Hamburg
@FredOverflow Holy shit.
Okay then. Uh...
What do you do?
Teach students programming
Like I mean how does your curriculum go?
IS it focused on systems or applcations etc etc
The C++ one? Let me see if I remember, it's been a year...
07:02
Yeah
01 If
02 While
03 Recursion

04 IO
05 Loops
06 Graphics

07 std::vector
08 std::set and std::map
09 Recursion revisited

10 Tic Tac Toe
11 Tetris
12 Missile Command
graphics?
with what?
TinyPTC
Drawing an animated clock and stuff. Fun.
I'm bored.
@FredOverflow Interesting
07:06
@Rapptz That seems to be a common problem around here.
@Rapptz Build an AI
I was thinking of using SFML as an intro to graphics and applications
And then maybe looking into Qt
I'm screwed. It's 3 am on a Sunday night
"night"
@Cinch SFML would be a very good choice.
@FredOverflow It's very clean and nice to use in comparison to SDL
I've been meaning to try Cinder ever since Herb started loving it
07:07
Eeeh Cinder
Cinder sucks.
Not that I ever make games anyway
I checked it out when that talk was given and it was so bad.
The last 3 weeks were usually spent talking about advanced C++ stuff like writing your own classes, overloading operators, templates and whatnot.
Sympathy for Students in Beginning Programming Classes changed my mind to write games instead.
I checked it a long time ago (1, 2 years?) and found it terrible
07:08
Anyone used gtkmm?
@FredOverflow I don't get why people like overloading operators so much
It starts with gtk therefore it must me terrible
I have to use it next term in my Design Patterns course to make a card game at the end so
@Cinch Martin Odersky introduced the operator /: as an alias for the method foldLeft, because it looks like a leaning domino that is about to fall to the right :)
@FredOverflow ......
07:10
@FredOverflow tbh I think teaching programming along side good examples and problems is the way to go.
It would be so great if I came back from co-op and they magically upgraded the testing server compiler to C++11
I never got the big deal about that
I could throw away this smart pointer I've been writing for that class
basically what they said
Like how does operating overloading really improve things?
07:10
How does it not?
Hm...
Okay, I do see some valid points...
The only bad parts is if the programmer creates a nonsense convention using it
It has use for good and bad
What if the programmer does that anyway, but with regular functions and not operators? Are you going to forbid user-defined functions?
I wasn't expecting path to overload / tbh, but I'll take it
@LucDanton Then at least it'll be confined to figuring out function and object definitions, and not operator overloaded functions too
07:12
@FredOverflow Why do Germans have such deep voices?
lol
I mean, I wouldn't teach a beginner operator overloading because you only start using it for improve ease with code
And that usually assumes that the programmer is production level and needs the ease of use
Like people overload operators for libraries and frameworks
Not single programs, and while I do recognize that the industry basically consists of larger-scale projects
It doesn't belong in a first-semseter class
(which is what I'm in and they're teaching)
I overloaded operator<< once for turning a turtle, like a << 90 would give you a turtle that was rotated 90 degrees to the left compared with the turtle a.
(ugh)
@Cinch What if you need to learn the copy/move semantics (and thus, need to overload the copy/move assignment operators)?
@Rerito Those are kind of different in my eyes
Overloading() is often used for function-like objects
That still forces you to learn operator overloading
07:16
Overloading(Foo&) is for copy-semantics and is necessary for memory work...
And if so, why not learn about functors and other operators
@Rerito I wouldn't begin with += or -= or = though
They already have here, and we haven't even finished more than 1 real program
And that's it.
> internal compiler error: in tsubst, at cp/pt.c:12022
@Cinch It uses tabs for indent. I'm flagging that as offensive.
URGH fuck this
I want untagged_variant
Are you sure?
07:19
Yes
My types already carry the tag
@ParkYoung-Bae Ooh thanks for reminding me.
Well your types look like they suck then. Remove that tag!
They come from a stream (also I have no control over them!)
I could do with just largest_storage<T1, T2, T3...>::type in fact
Yeah I'll do that
You sure? You can easily end up copying the storage. A union will have deleted members by default (including the destructor though).
Or conversely you can let the storage 'fall off' without destructing, come to think of it.
Can I have a union of non-POD?
07:24
Yes, C++11.
Oh my. Didn't know that. I'll check it then. Thanks!
Looks like that'll do
woo, reducer segfaulted, too
Maybe putting a compiler into the program that’s supposed to find bugs inside compilers isn’t such a good idea.
@ParkYoung-Bae lookie
@LucDanton Hmmm, double destruction
Urgh. It's okay, actually.
07:40
Ah man.
@ParkYoung-Bae It’s from the new, hang on.
Having to convert something from header only to header + .cpp is annoying
I wonder if there's a tool that automates this
@Rapptz Why do you have to?
I don't really have to.
I would like C++ to be headers + impl in a single file, and then compiling generates the headers you can redistribute.
@Rapptz Then why are you doing it!
07:41
that'd be great yes
@ParkYoung-Bae It has no use being header-only. I like header-only libs myself but...
@ParkYoung-Bae yup, we care that destruction matches construction
GCC doesn’t handle pack expansion when variable templates are involved, sad.
well
@Rapptz Does it have a use not being header-only? :D
I'm too lazy to turn this into a .cpp file so header only it is
@LucDanton I think that will do it. Merci (:
07:47
De nada.
08:19
Back from singing my heart out
user1804599
Can a Unix domain socket identify the user who sent the data?
morning bagels
1 hour ago, by FredOverflow
@Cinch Martin Odersky introduced the operator /: as an alias for the method foldLeft, because it looks like a leaning domino that is about to fall to the right :)
08:38
ergh... I think it wouldn't be that bad a miss rate if I had a script that posted on every question "Generally you should show you have put some effort into solving this problem yourself, what have you tried, what have you read up about this?". I swear it would apply to the majority of questions.
@thecoshman yup
That's me too btw
I think a lot of people probably have tried stuff, just don't think to show it.
@райтфолд not unless the data is marked in some way. AFAIK it's just source ip:port and a blob of data
@JerryCoffin look on the bright side, you get to enjoy maths... ok, now, depression is right response.
-1
Q: What level of expertise would it take to implement the following in C++?

AbhishekImplement an STL compliant container called concurrent_unordered_map using as much of the C++ 11, STL and/or the Boost C++ libraries as possible which provides the same facilities as std::unordered_map (or boost::unordered_map) but is: Thread safe to use from multiple threads. Must implement co...

Just a good knowledge of C++11 would be enough. — Basile Starynkevitch 2 hours ago
What? I think someone underestimates things a little
You just need to learn 11 things.
08:54
Which is easy, except for the 8th
user1804599
@thecoshman dammit.
user1804599
Can anyone but root change the owner of their own files?
@райтфолд yes...
user1804599
I do not believe you.
if you own a file, you can chown to anyone
you own it, you can do what ever you want to it.
user1804599
09:01
% touch foo
% chown postgres foo
chown: changing ownership of ‘foo’: Operation not permitted
@thecoshman That sounds so creepy
Someone should make a game about how files are whores... or something.
@райтфолд yes. owners can
@райтфолд you did something funky
user1804599
@sehe then why did my attempt fail?
you might now have created that file with you as owner
09:03
@райтфолд good question. What's umask? What's the fs?
user1804599
ext4
@thecoshman or that
stat foo?
Question: is it possible to enable vim-like features with the default installation of vim on ubuntu?
(without apt-get)
user1804599
  File: ‘foo’
  Size: 0         	Blocks: 0          IO Block: 4096   regular empty file
Device: 804h/2052d	Inode: 9185279     Links: 1
Access: (0644/-rw-r--r--)  Uid: ( 1000/rightfold)   Gid: ( 1000/rightfold)
Access: 2015-03-09 10:03:34.674558502 +0100
Modify: 2015-03-09 10:03:34.674558502 +0100
Change: 2015-03-09 10:03:34.674558502 +0100
 Birth: -
@Cinch ?
09:04
@sehe I have Ubuntu 12.02 I think and I'm trying to do :buffers as a vim command
apparently it claims its Vim but it's in Vi mode or something
@райтфолд time for strace chown ...
user1804599
No that's before the chown.
@Cinch probably elvis or some other minimalist vi clone. :version?
@райтфолд ... sigh
user1804599
chown fails vOv
what the hell, lobster. that is not helpful
@райтфолд Time to find out why!
2 mins ago, by sehe
@райтфолд time for strace chown ...
user1804599
zsh: command not found: strace
idk what it's doing
@JerryCoffin How can someone be so fool to divorce from a God? :) Jokes aside, I'm sorry to hear that. Hopefully things will eventually take a good turn.
Ooh, by the way, I finally got SFML to compile on Linux
09:14
You can collect the prize at the Putnam University
@райтфолд you suck
user1804599
Why?
user1804599
Because I don't have tool installed that I never use?
user1804599
27
Q: Why can't a normal user `chown` a file?

phlegWhy is the chown command root-only? Why can't non-root users use chown to give away files they own?

@sehe I thought zsh and csh were both outdated
Also, hey, any thoughts?
I'm going to interview here tomorrow:
user1804599
Z shell is not outdated. It's awesome.
09:18
@JerryCoffin Perhaps now is not the right time to reciprocate your ever correct contributions in the field of statistics and inversion of viewpoints? Because I'd be tempted to say you - like me - already were a part of divorce statistics.
Lasting marriage is just a failed divorce statistically speaking
@Cinch I just had 3
I just realized that "Any thoughts?" can be a stealth insult.
speaking of statistics, I must be an anomaly
Confirmed
I take it you survived your hike, Again?
@Cinch Steatlh?
@sehe no, I kidnapped her & her account ... but unlikely because neither her or her account worth the effort
@sehe It implies that you think that they have none (they're braindead)
user1804599
09:26
I think I want sticky bits.
@Cinch Yeah. I was confused about the "stealth" part
@chmod711telkitty It's unlikely anyone will noticed a difference
> DevLeague is a Super-Intense Programming Bootcamp. If you are a novice programmer with very little to moderate web programming skills, you will learn full-stack Javascript so that you are prepared with the tools and skills you need to become a programmer today.
@sehe lol I was talking to them about that and they said that they're one of the few that focuses on web
They're 9th right now in the world or something?
Striking similarity to "recruiting Jihadists"
@Cinch Not in marketing
@sehe They literally just started about a year ago or two?
idk
yesterday, by sehe
Just mocking the "let repeat everything with a question mark" thing?
@Cinch the mind boggles
09:30
@sehe ikr?
isn't that weird?
holy crap what they did with the qt forums is straight up criminal
HIP ENOUGH FOR YOU
@Cinch STOP THE UPTALK
And no, it's just weird that you "rank" anything related to empoyers or education.
@Pris mint stint
@sehe That's their quote, not mine
quote on quote baby
the job they want me to do apparently is either gonna be Arduinos/Raspberry Pi or Javascript + Minecraft
ok, back to a serious topic: if, hypothetically, someone anonymous would want to join an hackers group & their next meeting info are as follows:
@chmod711telkitty lol. Appreciate this, for once
09:35
D/T:  f2eb1b5c9c34e05e0d6df5dc2a672cac
Loc:     75ea457db560fe9c168d4a4a8c2525d2
SexTalks!
how would someone anonymous crack it, assuming one would need a private key?
@chmod711telkitty "hypothetically"
> Hint: Don't try to crack it, this information is for members only.
But no worries:
> We have an entry qualification challenge that you need
to solve to show us your degree of awesomeness.
that would be ... for someone who can't work out more complicated problems ...
09:38
Good luck then. Tell us when you capture the flag
if I try to crack it through brute force using multithreaded C++ decoding program
@sehe btw how do you do that thing
yknow quoting peope
I would need 1) common enoding/decoding methods 2) calculate the possibity that I could crack it in less than 24 hours using systems that currently available to me
@Cinch Use '> Stuff you want to quote'
@Cinch Just start your messages with "> "
09:41
> @Cinch Just start your messages with ">"
AH okay
> :21979386

Sandbox

Where you can play with regular chat features (except flagging...
@chmod711telkitty john does this. use a GPU. Just don't use your own (AWS cost me $31 for ~2 days)
Feb 27 at 11:42, by sehe
@ParkYoung-Bae I blew out the nvidia card doing the password thing. System would just lock up. Sometime I would boot into a working desktop, but it would lock up at random points.
First thing, both blocks are 16-byte long. Thus you can have any flavor of encryption modes going on... The possibilities are really tremendous
Question: Is Javascript viable as an embedded scripting language?
@Cinch I wouldn't say it's viable for anything, but there's an actual arduino-like stuff that uses JavaScript.
Don't remember the name though
@milleniumbug Oh....
I see.
09:46
@chmod711telkitty But the most likely is still something involving AES-128
that's why they were looking at Arduios
They're pretty heavy on the JS stuff...
@райтфолд that's code for apt-get install strace
@Cinch I'm sure it is for some definitions of viable
@milleniumbug Its called "espresso" or something like that
ugh
Javascript on embedded?
09:53
@milleniumbug thats it
is that even?...
@milleniumbug but why?
Dec 31 '14 at 15:51, by milleniumbug
why the fuck is embedded even using JavaScript
all the pain of embedded with all the pain of JavaScript
09:58
The obvious answer is because its easy and convenient
@JerryCoffin I can corroborate that
@Rerito nobody even said it was encrypted. It could be hashed from a secret lookup table
@StackedCrooked That's what you get for listening to Eric Raymond
@StackedCrooked to the point
@StackedCrooked protip: append ?context=n to show up to n parent comments.

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