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06:05
lol
It's a crappy compiler with spotty compliance and massive QoI issues
@wilx I think people get accustomed to using features in ways that are well supported by the compiler they use. Then if they use another compiler, they inevitably find that it doesn't do exactly those same things in the same way (and usually not as well) so the second clearly "sucks". Many here use gcc, and find VC++ horrible. I normally use VC++, and find gcc nearly unusable. When I have to use it, I plan on seeing internal compiler errors several times a day (and it never disappoints).
Yeah, VS pukes on complicated template stuff.
And pre-VS2013 miscompiled the shit out of everything SIMD related.
@JerryCoffin I guess I do not write the kind of complex code with either of them. I used to hit ICEs in both VC and GCC but that was before 2005 and 3.4 versions.
@wilx Do you really mean gcc 3.4 or Clang 3.4? gcc 3.4 was...umm....9 or 10 years ago, probably? (it's been on 4.x for quite a while, and is just about to transition to 5.x).
@JerryCoffin GCC.
06:12
@wilx Okay, just checking.
06:42
The best thing in my eyes about VS is its visual debugger.
GDB wrappers exist.
@ParkYoung-Bae It also compiles fairly quickly.
At least in comparison to something like ICC...
Clang is very fast
GCC is fast too.
@Rapptz Are you thinking of ddd or something else?
06:44
More along the lines of Qt Creator.
Oh, yeah, Qt creator is getting not bad at all
I don't use it anymore.
Unless I'm doing something in Qt.
I tend to use gdb through the cli now.
I find it's slow to navigate through
Typing instead of clicking
06:46
huh?
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Not sure about that.
And I also use Qt Creator.
Give a specific example perhaps.
I think he meant the CLI.
06:47
@StackedCrooked We're talking about gdb in cli mode
@ParkYoung-Bae haha t’aimes le clicodrome
@LucDanton Je dois dire qu'on s'y fait :)
@ParkYoung-Bae I thought that at first, but when you said slow at navigating I thought it was about qt creator.
@StackedCrooked Navigating: through the stack or the source or whatever
Have you ever used gdb -tui?
I don't tend to notice the typing thing because you usually have 1-letter shortcuts and you can type the previous command by just pressing Enter.
06:50
Isn't that the default
Nop.
Not that I'm aware of.
I'm pretty sure I've worked with that although the command line switch does not ring a bell
Alzheimer kicking in at 23
TODO: GDB debugger UI frontend that is actually good
06:52
inb4 someone suggesting HTML5
SublimeGDB isn't so bad..
Except for the crashes and stuff.
I didn't mind Qt Creator either.
But is it HTML5?
Python is close enough
I think one day I'm going to learn how to make pretty printers and stuff for GDB using python
I wish VS pretty printers were easy to extend
I have these be_int*_t for big-endian data and urgh I'm always alt-tabbing to the calculator to convert what the debugger displays
~productivity~
moar screens
06:58
Oh btw @LucDanton what do you think is better? del or delete_?
What purpose? Functor version?
(context is HTTP request)
Does it have to be delete at all?
Well it is called DELETE..
06:59
oic
well that sucks
@Rapptz Anything other than Dell.
@LucDanton yup.. :(
I do use foo_ whenever the language doesn’t allow me to use foo (e.g. functors::static_cast_). I wish I had a better recommendation though.
Keyword!
@Rapptz Nope
Override --
-- = delete //kinda
Oooooor you could overload operator delete on your request for maximum borked API design!
I feel ashamed to say that I already considered it.
Only briefly.
Copy paste this one: dеlеtе.
07:03
Unicode magic wizardry?
@LucDanton I'm almost scared to look at what you put in there...
✂️
Could be confused with cut though
I merely swapped the e's to е's. That way is more convenient to the programmer!
LATIN SMALL LETTER D
QUESTION MARK
LATIN SMALL LETTER L
QUESTION MARK
LATIN SMALL LETTER T
QUESTION MARK
how.. helpful.
@LucDanton Umm....right. For sufficiently loose definitions of "convenient"...or should I say "convеniеnt"?
07:07
…I’m not sure which is right
__DELETE__
@ParkYoung-Bae Reserved for the implementation.
> Dentistry symbol light vertical and bottom right
wot
Why is delete a non context-sensitive keyword
They could probably make it context-sensitive no?
07:10
> Latin small letter l
@ParkYoung-Bae It predates such stuff (which wasn't added until C++11).
^helpful name right here
@JerryCoffin Could they make it context-sensitive without breaking code?
@ParkYoung-Bae I'm too tired to be sure right now. In fact, I should probably go to bed. G'night all.
Night :)
07:16
I managed a ԁеᥣеtе, too. Starting to look a little funky, at least on my end.
I can’t find a replacement for 't' :(
@Rapptz How many question marks do you get for that one^?
ԁеᥣете looks awful
del looks ugly
delete_ looks ugly too.
deletee looks desperate
Can you get away with all caps?
I hate this
it's inconsistent
and it looks ugly too
enum struct request_type { DELETE, }; would work, barely
it's a function name too
Hmm..
Damn keyword.
Barely used too!
07:22
Time to submit a proposal
ᴅᴇʟᴇᴛᴇ
__builtin_delete
d̵̷̲̝͙̱͔̃͂͂̃̈́ͥ̏̃̓͒̎̑̓ͦͫḛ̴̸̢̡͍̤̱͉̻̯̼̦̝̤͕͇̦̹̦̉̾̎́ͤ͆͑̂̽̚͟ͅl̛̯̳͖̬͉̜͕͖̪̖̖̮̯̙̹̠͋̈́ͣ̚͟͠‌​̬e̵̞̬̳̣̬̰̭̞͆͋̓ͮ̎ͤ̃͗̔ͣͨͬͥ͂̄̚͢͜ͅt̵͆͐̿̈͑͊̈́̍̆ͫ͌̉̊͐̐ͦͧ̂͏̘̺̬̪̪́e̶̗̝̺̯̠̜͓͊ͬͫͫ̂ͬ͗ͦ̇͜ͅ
Oh no!
k gonna go with delete_ and just put my head down in shame.
In the C++ programming language, the delete operator calls the destructor of the given argument, and returns memory allocated by new back to the heap. A call to delete must be made for every call to new to avoid a memory leak. After calling delete the memory object pointed to is invalid and should no longer be used. Many programmers assign 0 (null pointer, also known as NULL, nil, or nullptr) to pointers after using delete to help minimize programming errors. Note, however, that deleting a null pointer has no effect (if the deallocation function is one supplied in the standard library), so it is...
it's even a wikipedia article
07:27
𝖣𝖤𝖫𝖤𝖳𝖤 𝙳𝙴𝙻𝙴𝚃𝙴
oh I’m dumb there are lowercase versions for those
𝖽𝖾𝗅𝖾𝗍𝖾 𝚍𝚎𝚕𝚎𝚝𝚎
hey this is like getting your eyes checked
Alright, off to the shops before Zalgo swoops in and deletes the chat.
δelete
@ParkYoung-Bae stop abusing you knee code!
07:43
@LucDanton ㍲l33t
@LucDanton ⎾⎿⏀⏁⏂⏃⏄⏅⏆⏇⏈⏉⏊⏋⏌ hahaha
Does anyone know if Visual Studio allows suppressing specific warnings at specific locations in the source file?
#pragma statements.
#pragma warning(push, disable : #) and then pop
@ParkYoung-Bae what does #pragma mean
07:54
Thanks @ParkYoung-Bae, this seems to be what I need.
I asked this on SO proper but it got marked as dupe with the wrong solution by people who didn't bother to understand the problem before mashing the "close" button.
I checked.
It's the same thing.
Well, it's for C# not C++.
@sehe I don’t think you pass the eye test.
Question; should I use exceptions or not?
If you can't handle the error at the call site, yes.
@nicebyte I'm going to reopen the question and then close it again.
It seems like a good idea to use exceptions but why are there cases where people don't use it?
08:01
I found this to be a better dupe.
Though it's kind of a jeopardy style dupe I guess.
@Rapptz I don't mind as long as the dupe link actually answers the question.
I agree the linked dupe is wrong since it's C# rather than C++.
@Rapptz Have you tried compiling Sol on Android?
No and I won't bother.
I don't use the NDK.
@Rapptz I know
08:03
That answer had a solution for C++ as well, but it didn't do exactly what I want.
You think it would be nice if someone did it?
@Rapptz What do you think?
Please respond.
@nicebyte Alright, I did it.
Thanks @Rapptz
@Cinch If it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't.
08:05
@Rapptz Nah but do you think people would appreciate an Android binding?
Nope.
Even for those that use Lua for game development?
(I know I would)
It honestly bugs me that people capitalise LUA.
Alright it seems I was wrong.
31
Q: Should I be using Lua for game logic on mobile devices?

Rob AshtonAs above really, I'm writing an android based game in my spare time (android because it's free and I've no real aspirations to do anything commercial). The game logic comes from a very typical component based model whereby entities exist and have components attached to them and messages are se...

Maybe gamedevs do use lua on mobile.
@Cinch I believe most of the "don't use exceptions" talk come from times before RAII was as widespread as it is today.
I didn't think they did.
08:08
@nicebyte I'm worried about exceptions because you need to jump through a hoop on Android to do it
@Rapptz I think I'll start working on an Android binding for Sol then.
If you're going to swig-wrap your code, yes
It's better to expose a very simple interface to swig
> If you're going to swig-wrap your code
What is swig?
Don't be silly, swig-wrap your willy
08:10
@nicebyte Yeah and I still don't understand why'd I'd want to do that
to call C++ code from java for example
So I wanted to keep the 2 low-weight bits of an int. i & 2. Took me 2 hours to debug.
@Rapptz Well that kind of defeats the purpose of my idea then lol
also didn't Love2D have an android port?
08:13
Can't you just do something like
int i = 10;
int j = i % 0x4
user1804599
08:25
@Rapptz please don't.
user1804599
Make it a string and let the API consumer choose whichever method they want.
user1804599
HTTP allows arbitrary methods as extensions.
user1804599
Or a method type that encapsulates a string and is case-insensitive and disallows whitespace.
08:47
@ParkYoung-Bae ... I see
@райтфолд woah man, be careful with information, it will blow peoples minds!
Hai
Mooooooooo
Wow. The business card re-imagined
@ParkYoung-Bae oops
@LucDanton it's just such a nice song to be singing to the repeated use of delete action
is that like "I like to std::move it std::move it"?
09:06
Please. I don't think you got me. Accessing properties: stackoverflow.com/a/28746453/85371 (skip to the "Bundled" section). If you have a new question, just ask it. I am really not going to give the answer until you post a new question. (Irony: My original answer copied the EdgeProperties, but I removed it because you showed code that seemed to intentionally not copy them. Lesson: just tell us what you want to achieve, instead of only showing the broken approach) — sehe 27 secs ago
fuckers
@ParkYoung-Bae I guess Qt Creator's GDB integration doesn't cut it for you?
hey
I attended the most amazing live musical performance of my life on Saturday
It was just so good I feel like sharing.
Mostly because of that fine lady
@райтфолд If you want custom methods then you can use the more complicated way of doing things.
These are convenience functions.
ideone.com/01IoHo for m=4 why do i get 000 as output ? I should actually get nothing as output .
@Theorem debug it. silly. "I should actually get nothing as output" Is obviously a false claim. Unless you want to argue that 1>=4, 2>=4 and 3>=4
09:19
@sehe the first loop is satisfied for i=1, i=2, i=3 , but non of the i's will satisfy the second loop so i shouldn't get anything at all . Am i wrong ?
Statements are self-contained, mostly.
Paradox: this statement is not self-contained.
Format your code better.
It's awful.
@Rapptz How do i do that ?
09:22
@Theorem yes the inner loop wouldn't execute. That's irrelevant. Delete the inner loop. Read what you see. Profit.
haha
I mean. If you can't read your code like the compiler does it (a.k.a. properly) how do you expect to know what code the compiler will emit?
Ok
@sehe so the rem assumes 0 as the value
also this is nice
except non-inferred type for the variable, but that's a minor annoyance
@Theorem Yes. It's uninitialized, but as it is a static global, it will be implicitly value-initialized. Just fix your damn code. And stop writing C code claiming it's C++ :) ideone.com/Rsoff9
09:31
@ParkYoung-Bae Alt-F4
slow
sigh
hmm it appears 2015-03-22 is a nice date; @thecoshman @Rapptz @wilx You're the only people that can't make it then. No way of adjusting arrangements?
@sehe Are you suggesting me that i should write the code in the way that your link includes ?
09:34
You're free to do whatever you please. However, you might want to keep in mind to what level you will be taken seriously in the lounge. Or ignored.
@ThePhD Interesting.
@Theorem (have you looked at the link?)
@sehe Yes i am going through it .
@sehe Looks lot better
@R.MartinhoFernandes ITT ROBOT LOVES VISUAL STUDIO
I love me a visual stud, yo
09:36
the yo was a nice touch
@Theorem Did you notice the (one) significant change?
@ParkYoung-Bae oh my
@sehe the 'if' statement
?
specifically, the error handling, yes
@sehe there is no error now .
Oh my. Look at it some more.
user1804599
09:41
@sehe not when the programmer is me.
Programmers don't write "if statements". That's like saying book writers write "words". Instead, you implement an algorithm (/using/ a loop, /using/ a condition; note it's not even using an "if statement" or a "for loop". It's conditions and flow control.)
@райтфолд Because?
@sehe std is just substitution for namespace std which one can define at the beginning right ?
user1804599
@sehe Because I don't care about the wasted space. :0
user1804599
It hasn't proven to be a problem yet! Premature optimisation!
@Theorem Yes. Don't globally 'using namespace' is a good rule of thumb
@райтфолд Nobody said the programmer cares. You can make factual observations about performance without optimizing
user1804599
09:43
If they don't care, why would they say anything?
Because it was in a joke
user1804599
OK so, I have this problem with CPS.
The OP should have his eyesight checked
BGL: abandon all hope
09:46
@sehe it's not eyesight, it's attitude vOv
user1804599
It's mind-cracking.
user1804599
Stupid JavaScript.
@ParkYoung-Bae I kinda agree. Graph algorithms elude me often, and BGL doesn't exactly help
@BartekBanachewicz Maybe.
09:53
@sehe BGL is the very embodiment of excessive generalization (that and the docs aren't the best).
@sehe Do you feel the despair?
@BartekBanachewicz not way of me committing to that date. I might be free for it, and depends how long you want to go at it.
@sehe I am still confused with the if statement , what does actually that statement do ?
@BartekBanachewicz If I had the time and energy, I'd give a sarcastic response to how every one of those pictures show's further proof to it being shit. :P
user1804599
1 reason you should never visit Poland: Bartek lives there.
09:57
> In Proceedings of the 3th ACM SIGPLAN Haskell Symposium, pages 1–12. ACM, 2010.
@BartekBanachewicz awesome
user1804599
@Rapptz :(
user1804599
please document them after the more useful functions
@BartekBanachewicz Unfortunately, Czech Rep. seems to be more popular than Poland (from a tourist perspective)
Why unfortunately?
Dunno, it's what I observed
Czech Republic is a beautiful country too
Never said otherwise don't get this wrong
And they have the nicer part of the mountains
@Rerito all in all, you should visit both ;)
@BartekBanachewicz Yes, that was the point exactly :)
And Romania
And Croatia and... Shit too many places
10:03
@райтфолд Lol. I respectfully disagree.
I've never been to Romania.
Would be interesting to go one day.
Why one day only
Esp. that it's a much cheaper trip than say London :P
hihi
@ParkYoung-Bae on the flipside, graph algorithms are a very very good area in which to aim for absolute genericity (PBGL is a fine exemplification)
@sehe I'm more thinking of the BGL::adapt_struct stuff
10:05
19 hours ago, by Fanael
@Xeo I'd drop @Jefffrey and @jalf from somewhere high tbf
oh man I missed such an epic dick slap fight
@Theorem it conditionally executes code. The first branch should make it really obvious what it does.
@Theorem (Hint: you wanted to ask "how does the condition work"? To which the answer is: contextual conversion to bool:)
12
Q: Why istream object can be used as a bool expression?

chengDoes anyone know why istream object can be used as bool expression? For example: ifstream input("tmp"); int iValue; while (input >> iValue) //do something; Here input >> iValue returns a reference to the ifstream object. I want to know why this object can be used as a bool expression. I lo...

@ParkYoung-Bae never seen it. (are you referring to Boost Fusion?)
10:23
@ThePhD Did you try the rest, btw?
I'm getting back to development on it soon.
Exciting.
You can do it.
:p
How is it going anyway?
Oh, I didn't mean VS.
I meant ogonek.
> Sylph: the programming language I want eevee
Nonius is the only thing I'm keeping VS-y.
Truth in advertising:
> Yeah, uh. This is the longest post I’ve ever written, 50% bigger by filesize than the PHP monstrosity. I’ll be amazed if anyone reads all this.
10:26
u can do it!
after fall & splash a hundred times ...
> The interactive mode is no longer supported. Don't complain if it doesn't work.
:(
@sehe meh..
Didn't really like it.
i.e. didn't resonate with me
basically 80% python
@sehe No I'm referring to all the template fuckery you have to use to adapt your structs to the BGL algos
more myth perpetuation in the comments
Yeah, implying clang can make pretty errors!
10:30
@ParkYoung-Bae The point it that a. you can b. this means you don't need to implement and test your own algorithm mess
@sehe The point is that a. it's very difficult for a newcomer b. it's overkill in most situations
@Rapptz it didn't resonate with me yet because it was TL;DRWAW (while-at-whork)
yeah it's rather long
@Rapptz Sounds like eevee, alright.
@ParkYoung-Bae In truth the most obvious gain is that clang often produces error messages more quickly
10:32
@sehe I have disqus disabled.
So I never get to see these comments.
this is what I get instead
Neat
> I like exceptions. Without a very very strict type system (and heavy use of Option and Result types), I don’t think you have much choice but to use exceptions.
wot
Oh if I enable JavaScript the font changes.
Lovely.
@Rapptz what's wrong with that?
I wish our floor didn't have the worst vending machine
I have to go down one floor to get nice food
10:51
I think I might have a bit of a problem writing in Agda in ST
Problem with the font.
@BartekBanachewicz Memory allocation errors don't matter w.r.t. type system amongst others.
@Rapptz mm
@Rapptz I think his point was that w/o rich type system it's hard to have a reasonably structured code that uses return values for errors too
@chmod711telkitty ;p
@BartekBanachewicz but again, regardless of type system, you can still debate exceptions vs magic return values

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