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21:02
kitty :3
@wilx "Fair & Balanced"
user1804599
This orange tastes like grapefruit.
user1804599
Fuck grapefruit.
@рытфолд Put a large shot of vodka in it.
@sbi I wonder, are you trained in gorilla warfare?
21:12
@orlp You mean throwing bananas over tall buildings?
user1804599
@рытфолд lol
user1804599
Gorilla Warfare 2
@рытфолд it's a classic
user1804599
nooooooo
user1804599
21:20
Perl 6 has a subst method instead of a sed operator. :(
Perl 6 is an object?
user1804599
> say "foboar".subst(/bo/, "ob")
foobar
user1804599
In Perl 5 it's "foboar" =~ s/bo/ob/r.
sbi
sbi
@Rapptz I just came across this and it does seem relevant to the discussion.
user1804599
Oh wait.
sbi
sbi
21:23
@orlp I'm not "trained". I'm your fucking drill sarge.
@рытфолд At the rate they're going, Perl 8 might almost catch up with SNOBOL 4, where it would have been something like: "foboar" "bo" = "ob"
is there any good, simple animation software for linux?
@corvid No.
user1804599
s/// is still there. Phew.
user1804599
21:26
> my $x = "foboar"; $x ~~ s/bo/ob/; say $x
foobar
> After killing both of them he moved bck to Al Husayn while reciting Martial poetry.
Span is great
Spam, too
Not sure if it is me or T4 that sucks the most.
user1804599
Gods on Fire is one of the best songs ever.
21:41
So I'm reading this answer by Johannes (I'm not done yet mind you, it's super long) but... I'm getting the impression the only reason we need typename in templates for dependent names is because they reused operators? (for example * for declaring a pointer and multiplication)
@Borgleader also < I think
but yeah basically it's because the same tokens are used in different contexts
I got some spelt bread with figs and nuts... It's divine
(ah right, < motivates the template disambiguator, not typename)
user1804599
My compiler is good.
I feel horrible
user1804599
21:44
I think typeof doesn't have to be an operator.
user1804599
It can just be a function.
@AndyProwl thanks, now i need to lookup why sometimes this-> is necessary in template code
@Borgleader because it makes the name dependent, so lookup is delayed until instantiation
(it may be a member of a base class that depends on a template parameter)
hmm damnit...
i was hoping it was something "fixable" but it seems to be an inherent quirk of templates
@Borgleader something like this
if you try to remove this->, the compiler will see it's a non-dependent name, it will look for a global x, find nothing, and emit an error. Unless it's VC++, which does not implement two-phase lookup and delays everything until instantiation time
21:48
couldnt you just wait until template instantiation to figure that out, thus not requiring users to write this-> ?
i just dislike this distinction between template & non-template code
user1804599
D also delays everything until instantiation time, which is good.
that presents its own problems: sometimes early error detection is desirable
Thx @AndyProwl you just taught me something
lol you're welcome
user1804599
Although arguably always requiring this-> to be explicit always is good as well.
21:50
@рытфолд IMO, that one's not even open to argument. In languages that require this-> (or this.) everywhere, it hurts readability immensely.
@Rerito Not as divine as me, ruler of all koalas.
Surprisingly easy to forget too.
I've forgotten self. in Python quite a lot
@JerryCoffin I don't think this-> hurts readability. It tells you that you are dealing with a member variable
it's an alternative to prefixes like _, m_, etc
(or suffixes)
I don't use prefixes or suffixes or this->.
@Rapptz ditto (in Rust also)
user1804599
21:52
@Rapptz which would be quite fine if Python wasn't retarded and had name lookup happen at compile-time.
@AndyProwl I generally do--if there's much question or doubt about using a member variable, chances are the class is poorly designed and lacks coherence. Although I've used prefixes for work when required, I've always considered them a poor substitute for good design (and the desire for them driven primarily by poor design).
@Nooble I dont want to eat you, my bread was enough
@Borgleader (btw here is some more explanation)
user1804599
Compile-time lexical scoping is the only sane thing you can do.
ow. Damn cat just jumped of my hand, leaving a gash in my finger behind.
21:54
@AndyProwl thanks!
user1804599
Not doing it has literally zero benefit and makes both development-time and runtime slow.
user1804599
ok woo it makes the compiler simpler
@рытфолд Newb question: what's compile-time lexical scoping?
@JerryCoffin Probably a good point
user1804599
@Rerito It means that this fails at compile-time rather than at runtime:
user1804599
21:55
def f():
    print(x) # x not in scope
f()
Got it
user1804599
Implementing it takes about ten minutes work.
user1804599
Implicit declaration is also retarded.
are you twating around with your own language again?
he's teaching us
user1804599
21:57
No, LasagnaScript is irrelevant.
user1804599
(Although it does get this shit right.)
@рытфолд But at least you've admitted that it's irrelevant. :-)
@AndyProwl you're fucked
ahaha
hopefully not
user1804599
LasagnaScript is good. You should give it a try when I finish it, if you're still alive by then.
21:58
I think rightfold would be a great teacher, although he seems to enjoy dispensing his knowledge in exotic ways
Damn I'm exhausted. I wanted to study a paper but I guess I'm just gonna go to sleep
user1804599
No, I would be a terrible teacher.
@рытфолд I thought you don't finish projects
user1804599
@AndyProwl Exactly.
user1804599
but look it werks
21:59
I see
@Rerito Now that's Better Thinking™
@рытфолд I might still be alive, but I'll almost certainly be too old to program any more.
@Rerito put the paper under the cushion
user1804599
protocol Map { def map(this, f); }
implement Map for Array { def map(xs, f) = xs.map(%f(%1)); }
console.log(map(Array(1, 2, 3), %(%1 * %1)));
user1804599
compiles and runs and I'm on drugs
user1804599
22:00
yummy chocolate cookies
ah, youth
@AndyProwl shut up, you're not old, are you?
hell I am
how old?
oh, I thought you were style bold, not forced bold :P
22:02
36 in a few months
he's like 72
user1804599
Younger than Pubby.
user1804599
Pubby is 95.
I'm 102.
@thecoshman lol, half and half
22:02
I'm 114.
Older than Bubby.
impressive
@Rapptz Well, Johann and Andy together are about 72, anyway.
user1804599
I'm 10100 years old.
@AndyProwl It's this one!
I feel like 50
22:03
It's okay Johan.
You'll always be 24 in my heart.
@рытфолд So you're 20?
user1804599
Exactly.
I feel like 80
user1804599
I feel like 20.
22:03
but until 3 years ago I felt like 25
then my body decided to fuck up
A woman is as old as she feels. A man is as old as the woman he feels.
I feel like 1110
@AndyProwl probably the drink :P
user1804599
I drew a diagram of the type hierarchy.
@рытфолд 'NO'?
user1804599
22:04
@thecoshman thanks to the drink I'm not dead yet :P
@JerryCoffin So young women are the secret to everlasting youth?
user1804599
> The type system from top to bottom.
user1804599
How do you convert DOT to SVG?
user1804599
Aliased PNG is fugly.
22:05
@JerryCoffin I used to think that, but no longer works for me
wtf format is dot?
@Nooble Precisely. Speaking of which, somebody here must owe me a virgin...
user1804599
Graph format.
shite format more like
o_0 it's a bit unsettling when you switching of tabs syncs up to noises in a video
user1804599
I wish JavaScript didn't have non-objects.
user1804599
22:06
It'd make life simpler.
@AndyProwl I hardly aged at all until I got married...
user1804599
muh muh performance yeah maybe if your mother performed better at the pole
user1804599
performance my ass, Python has no non-objects and it's fast enoug
@JerryCoffin hey, that sounds like an advice
oh, you're doing a language on top of JS?
user1804599
22:08
Exactry.
@JerryCoffin First you must make yourself a martyr.
@рытфолд Python's fast?
@thecoshman Yeah--then complaining because JS sucks.
does it support jquery?
I never used it but hear this for the first time
user1804599
22:08
@AndyProwl It's fast enough.
user1804599
@thecoshman You can use jQuery with it if you want.
@AndyProwl fast at what?
user1804599
YouTube is written in Python.
user1804599
YouTube is fast enough.
really
user1804599
22:09
Conclusion: Python is fast enough.
didn't know that
@Nooble Martyrs get virgins when/if they die. Gods get virgins while they're still alive.
@thecoshman I don't know, I thought it was fast at nothing
throw enough (relevant) hardware at anything and it's fast enough.
user1804599
/me throws hardware at thecoshman
3
user1804599
22:09
now work faster you ass
@thecoshman I read about language limitations regarding multithreading in Python - disclaimer, I don't really know what I'm saying - so I'm not sure if throwing moar hardware would suffice
user1804599
Use IronPython or Jython if you don't want GIL.
user1804599
Maybe Stackless.
user1804599
GIL is a stupid idea.
@AndyProwl throw more at it then :P
22:11
I'll give it a try
in fact I'm quite illiterate
I should learn some languages other than C++
user1804599
You should. It will be a refreshing experience.
user1804599
Try Perl 6!
I know. My daily excuse is work
@AndyProwl Not really language limitations--the limitation is only in the implementation (though, admittedly, by far the most common/widely-used implementation).
@JerryCoffin Actually, a more accurate interpretation of the Quran says that martyrs get 72 white raisins, not virgins. Although I cannot speak for gods.
22:12
I do have a lot of it to be fair
@JerryCoffin I see
user1804599
Or LasagnaScript. :P
I was thinking of Rust
@Nooble I'll take your word for it. I pay no attention to the Koran (by any spelling).
I hear people talking about it all the time and it upsets me when I can't participate in the discussion
@Andy how many languages do you know?
user1804599
22:13
Time to give my terminal a new wallpaper.
@JohanLarsson one and two halves - no, not even halves
@JerryCoffin Neither do I, what I do pay attention to is AP Global History class.
I'm quite proficient C++, I can do stuff with C# but I only know it superficially, and I dabble in Haskell
like, I can read super-simple code
@AndyProwl YES!!!
or not even
@thecoshman Do you use it?
22:14
Rust has the slight problem of having bad library support
@AndyProwl Come up with some flip line about its being interesting, but being too immature to support <insert some unbearably obscure niche here>, and you can at least sound like you've paid a little attention to it (and the same works with any new language).
@AndyProwl trying to :P
@рытфолд black or GTFO
@AndyProwl C++ to Rust is interesting, but not adventurous.
@JerryCoffin ahah, it'll take me longer to figure out what's too immature to support than to learn the basics of the language
@Nooble class AP_Global_history : public new_class.
22:16
@LucDanton Not adventurous meaning the languages are not that different?
@AndyProwl You don't really need to pick something it's too immature to support--just something sufficiently obscure that nobody will argue with you about it.
@JerryCoffin AP_Global_history::AP_Global_history() { this -> fail() }
the language is fine, the 'library framework' is nice and solid, dependency management is trivial. it just lacks the userbase to get the userbase
@JerryCoffin oh, right. That sounds feasible
ah, there's even an online book
22:18
on the Rust site?
although I tend to prefer paper
@thecoshman yeah
yeah, it's fairly good
user1804599
@thecoshman I was thinking of a rainbow. :(
I'm working on playing with GL, but glx bindings are not linking
@AndyProwl When Shannon was working on his information theory, somebody (Von Neumann, I think) advised him to use the term "entropy" because it would make things sound deep but sufficiently obscure that nobody would be able to argue against anything he said.
22:20
At what level do dads make dad jokes in that realm where it's not even a dad joke anymore?
obscure terminology is one of the things that most powerfully scared me away from ever studying information theory - apart from the bits I had to study
entropy is not that obscure imo
to me, it is
it is obscure even outside of information theory so that might be the reason (ignorance)
physics never made it to my brain for some reason
thermodynamics in particular
Why do ashes, smoke, and heat not reorganise themselves spontaneously into a pile of wood?
because entropy, I guess
22:24
Why do clean code turn into a mess over time
Regardless of the presentation of entropy, as long as you cling to the fact that it is useful to give the 'directionality' of reactions I think you’re a long way there already. Anything more in depth and you’re doing physics/chemistry proper.
@LucDanton Because @JerryCoffin did not intend on making physics like that.
He only had 7 days.
And rested on the last.
I think it was rightfold who created the world, and left the project unfinished without fixing the bugs
in what language?
Brainfuck.
22:27
In the same vein: if 2H₂ + O₂ -> 2H₂O, then why not 2H₂O -> 2H₂ + O₂?
@LucDanton it takes energy to organise that shit into wood. It has to be actively done. That said, AFAIK, it can technically happen, but the chances of it happening for even part of one cell is basically zero. So for a splinter, or even a log, just no.
@thecoshman Begging for many questions here :)
@LucDanton it does... electrolysis can split water into the gas
@LucDanton I can but try to answr
There is also enthalpy, forgot what it is.
or give up
22:28
@thecoshman I made a hydrogen generator like this.
Too bad it caught on fire soon thereafter.
@JohanLarsson energy stuff. more or less that you have to add energy before a fire can start and then it continues.
Socratic method (also known as method of elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate), named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates, is a form of inquiry and discussion between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to illuminate ideas. It is a dialectical method, often involving a discussion in which the defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict themself in some way, thus strengthening the inquirer's own point. The Socratic method is a method of hypothesis elimination, in that better...
@LucDanton ... yes?
go Platon
@thecoshman Does every question need an answer?
22:31
@LucDanton More interesting, does every answer need a question?
that is jeopardy
What is a shit tv show?
user1804599
@thecoshman Fox News
Ignorance is bliss
what is the reason for the name rust?
22:34
you know shit is going down when you see the mech dog, the doc and the bonnet
@JohanLarsson ... it's FEry gOod?
@AlexM. Somewhere near the river?
who are the authors of Rust?
@MarkGarcia wut
@thecoshman You seem to have left out 2 or 3 subscripts there.
22:38
How hard is it to write a lexer? =/
@AlexM. Fallout NV? Location?
oh
close to the roman guys
I was doing the bunker quest
@JohanLarsson It's a post-apocalyptic setting?
and killed caesar in the process
Poor Caesar.
22:39
@AndyProwl Mainly it's oxygen... since the above context.
@AlexM. Ceasar is dead. I repeat CEASAR IS DEAD.
I don't know if I remembered that correctly from the radio.
The docs say "we" but I couldn't find any names on the official website
there was no radio
I was vilified by the legion before I arrived there
@EtiennedeMartel misping?
22:40
I just killed everything on my way
@JerryCoffin bah, close enough
@AndyProwl Started by Graydon Hoare. Since then, seems to just be attributed to Mozilla Research.
@AndyProwl it's led by Mozilla
ah, I see
Wait, you mean the game or the language?
(I honestly wasn't paying attention)
now I'm deciding whether or not to do what house tells me to
@AlexM. On my first run on the game I mostly talked all of them. :D
@JerryCoffin do the most work, get the most credit, no?
@AlexM. I haven't finished my second run (it's long overdue) but I planned to be an ass and betray everyone.
@EtiennedeMartel the language
user1804599
22:42
Imagine this wallpaper without the NEED MOAR JPEG: alpha.wallhaven.cc/wallpaper/24697
user1804599
It'd be so nice.
Moma was a great horror film :)
> rustc 1.0.0-nightly (4be79d6ac 2015-01-23 16:08:14 +0000)
installed
@EtiennedeMartel that game makes it rather annoying when trying to search for shit on the language
@рытфолд NEED MOAR FISH EYE BLUR
22:44
@thecoshman just google rust lang something instead of just rust something?
@AlexM. If your house is telling you what to do, take my advice, and go see a psychiatrist.
Also, looks like some Adobe splashscreen image.
@Borgleader I've been trying to use DuckDuckGo... it's nice, but not very smart :(
@AndyProwl I use play.rust-lang.org, you can link to programs, too.
@LucDanton Thank you!
22:45
Well, that’s for the language proper. For the rest obviously an install is convenient.
Maybe we can convince @Stacked to support it on Coliru
@thecoshman Just use Google with an tracker-blocker extension (and with your account signed-out).
maybe we can convince him to support Idris as well then!
the hell is Idris?
@thecoshman Eh, I remember that other search engine that died... cuil I think it was?
Cuil (/ˈkuːl/ KOOL) was a search engine that organized web pages by content and displayed relatively long entries along with thumbnail pictures for many results. Cuil said it had a larger index than any other search engine, with about 120 billion web pages. It went live on July 28, 2008. Cuil's servers were shut down on September 17, 2010, with later confirmations the service had ended. Cuil was managed and developed largely by former employees of Google, Anna Patterson and Russell Power. The CEO and co-founder, Tom Costello, has worked for IBM and others. The company had raised $33 million from...
yup
22:46
@MarkGarcia it's not really about privacy
@AndyProwl a programming language vOv
I'm not inclined to trust what one source says.
@ScarletAmaranth hm, thought so
user1804599
Nice, found a version with less NEED MOAR JPEG.
@Borgleader Is that pronounced like "couille"?
22:47
@AndyProwl now it's at v1.0 might be worth while
@thecoshman I mostly do Google > Bing > DDG
@thecoshman Reminds me of this person.
@AndyProwl it has dependent types, so it's fun to play around with; also generates reasonable assembly and has an interesting side-effect-composing framework that complements monads
@StackedCrooked o_0 'use share links instead'?
@ScarletAmaranth I’ve always enjoyed reading papers on effect system, but seeing effect systems in the wild has been meh. Conversely, there is something icky when thinking about monad transformers, yet I don’t mind reading or writing programs that involve them. I do not know why.
22:50
@LucDanton I am tired of writing monad transformers to be perfectly honest - they are easy to read / write because they're generally write-able without thinking
Oh, right. It’s the effect-like, polymorphic (MonadFoo m, MonadBar m, …) => constraints I don’t mind.
Love the helmet.
user1804599
@thecoshman control+L, return
user1804599
Problem solved!
@LucDanton monad transformers generally fit a pattern you can immediately recognize once you've seen a few of them; and then they're just... clutter I suppose?
22:52
@thecoshman So trust the Lounge! Even for something simple like 2+2 we can't agree, so we obviously qualify as multiple sources. :-)
@рытфолд o_0
@JerryCoffin perfect logic
@ScarletAmaranth Effects don’t look that different in the wild, is what I’m getting at (I think).
@thecoshman When I come to visit Ireland, you owe me a drink.
@LucDanton mmm; maybe I'm just not used to seeing that all too much, so I don't instantly recognize them as "something to ignore" :)
user1804599
@рытфолд because composition doesn't exist in PHP
@Rapptz the hell is np?
@JerryCoffin vOv sure
@MarkGarcia Something stupid.
My userscript to remove the np isn't working.
user1804599
@Rapptz Child abuse. :(
user1804599
22:59
Not having your child vaccinated is a form of child abuse and must therefore be punished under child abuse laws.
@thecoshman Of course, when I go to Ireland I inherit my family name from my mother's side of the family, so I'm suddenly Jerry Flannigan.
@Rapptz oh, the particular comment

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