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user3790646
11:00 PM
@sehe you have a point
 
@milleniumbug where in is a proposition with the dative, not the accusative (hard to tell in written Engrish)
 
@sehe I learned how to say "to see" today in german class today.
 
Relevant. But not to my name in case you wondered
 
I have to write something in Netlogo for a final project and it's a pain. There's an "array" that provides O(1) access to elements but constantly has to be converted to a linked list for some operations. Teacher won't even let me write a better array extension (in java) to make this shit work
 
user3790646
aw Brazil sucks
 
11:01 PM
it's slow as hell right now
 
This is hilarious:
 
@Blob you know that List<> in Java doesn't mean "linked list" right? Just like in .NET (they copied that)
 
@sehe I remember someone explaining your name a while ago to me, I'll just search the chat.
 
Jan 12 '12 at 23:53, by sehe
You can see why I stick with sehe. It is short, and I am lazy.
 
@sehe Thing in netlogo's almost definitely a linked list. I'm not referring to List<>
 
11:02 PM
@Blob List is an interface, and ArrayList is an implementation of List that uses an array as its backing store.
 
@Blob Wokay!
 
@wilx I thought that dude died years ago.
 
@EtiennedeMartel And .NET 1.1 had the same, AFAIR. Then, .NET 2 with generics fixed it (although it still has slightly confusing names for things. And ReadonlyCollection hierarchies are all but completely useless/broken)
I believe that may have been fixed in .NET 4.5 (whichever introduced co/contravariance?)
 
@sehe .NET 4 did, IIRC.
 
Is the last element of a list actually called a "foot" or is there a better scientific word for that element, like the "head" of a list or a "tail" of the list (though the tail is a set of elements)
 
11:06 PM
But it didn't really get fixed. I mean, only IEnumerable<T> is covariant.
 
I am sorry I dont undestand the first part of your answer. Could you paraphrase/correct/clarify? — user14416 6 mins ago
lolwut
@user14416 Erm... You should clarify. I've explained exactly why the code is not compiling using all the evidence you post in your question. Because the rest is not given, I'm helpful in pointing you to assorted bits of the relevant documentation regarding breaking API changes. You can either figure it out from here, or you posts a MCVE or SSCCE sample. — sehe 24 secs ago
No mercy
 
@salbeira Are you talking to me? Netlogo has "first" and "last".
 
@AndreyErick Just curious, what are some things that you've programmed?
 
@EtiennedeMartel In the library, you mean?
 
@sehe Yeah.
 
user3790646
11:07 PM
client databases for my dad and some other people on my city
 
@Blob no, and you can not form a sentence with: "For a given list, returns the last." as in "For a given list, returns the head."
 
user3790646
and huh, used boost filesystem to order some files for a friend
 
user3790646
and things like that
 
ofc. you can say "returns the last element"
but the question is
 
11:08 PM
does that element have a special name?
 
Was what I remember, I think
 
@Puppy Well, he has not, yet.
 
like the first element has the name "head"
 
@AndreyErick You wat. Learn shell scripting :)
 
@sehe TIL
 
11:09 PM
This is the Haskell way
 
user3790646
That's one thing on my mind. I will finish The pragmatic programmer first then I will search about shell scripting
 
@sehe It only applies to caterpillars though.
 
@sehe That's a Wiggler.
 
user3790646
what OS do you guys use?
 
Noobuntu
 
11:10 PM
@AndreyErick Windows, both at home and at work.
 
yeah though you still can not form a readable sentence without calling the last element "last element"
 
@EtiennedeMartel TIL that only interfaces can be covariant. Who the fuck designs this shitty language.
 
And Windows 8.1
 
@Puppy Someone who actually managed to ship a language ;)
 
Did nobody ever call that element the "foot" of a list
or the "anus" cough
 
user3790646
11:11 PM
Noobuntu? Your name is in it, interesting xD
 
lol
 
@AndreyErick What do you use?
 
Xeo
@thecoshman Kay, so we got the central date down. Now we just need to find out if we'll stay before or after for an elongated meatup.
 
@EtiennedeMartel They also got paid to work on it :P
 
@AndreyErick Actually, you should just do it, not read about it. Reading is overrated in applied crafts like programming. I suggest you take the pill and install linux (I can tell you're avoiding it, although you've toyed with it, likely). Live for a year in linux exclusively and you'll develop a wonderful sense for composability of tasks, the pros and contras of shell programming (both are plentiful) etc. etc. No books need be harmed
 
11:12 PM
@Xeo a meatup? you gaythiest!
 
Xeo
Meating in meetspace
(it was intentional)
 
oic
 
@EtiennedeMartel I'm very very bad at remembering specifics, but I do have a good way to stash "memory hooks" like this. I can sometimes spend a day (or more) to finally fish it out of the memory/web but then I mostly do come up with it. Invariably this endsup saving time (and making me happy)
 
user3790646
@nooble I use windows 8.1, came with this notebook, but I'm I have ubuntu on my virtual machine
 
user3790646
@sehe reading...
 
user3790646
11:14 PM
@sehe well you have an interesting point but I'm just 15, I rather develop applications for Windows first
 
Just write code.
 
user3790646
yeah, that's what matters.
 
If you want to achieve "mastery" of anything, by all means, grok the documentation, specification, etc. But for any applied use, reading any of that before application is putting the cart in front of the horse
 
And remember: if you look at old code and think it's still good, then you did not learn enough in the interval.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I can do this, sorta.
 
11:15 PM
@AndreyErick No. Don't.
 
user3790646
Don't what?
 
Stick to windows because you're "15"
 
@Blob I'm 14.
 
I stick to Windows because I spend most of the time on my PC playing games.
 
Koala years make me 94.
 
user3790646
11:16 PM
-'- I mean, I don't really need to learn about Linux right now
 
user3790646
that's what I meant
 
And at work, well, we're using Visual Studio.
 
@AndreyErick Not sure this is the right path. I wish I expanded my universe earlier (I did use windows exclusively until ~1998. Back then the penalty for ignoring competing platforms was not as high as now)
 
@Nooble I hope at least you're not using Micro$oft's OS
 
@AndreyErick "but I'm just 15, I rather develop applications for Windows first" In which way does this make sense? Windows is just playground for childs?
 
user3790646
11:16 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ definitely.
 
user3790646
@πάνταῥεῖ pros go linux, mostly
 
@Blob I use it, and run VirtualBox for Ubuntu.
 
@Nooble Well, you still have time. Hurry up.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Hey, guess who just casted his first delete vote
 
@AndreyErick That still doesn't male sense :P
 
11:17 PM
-5
Q: New to Objective-C - but only have one quick inquiry

Alex HaidI've been messing around with languages like Java (Android), scripting (I first started use KixTart when I was a kid) and so on. Well at this point I'm really ready to delve into it for person reasons. I doubt my 130WordsPerMinute will come that in handy (Don't want to make mistakes, he-hee) AN...

 
@Blob ? I use windows to play games, and use it for better OpenGL support.
 
@Nooble Why not dualboot then? :|
 
user3790646
 
@AndreyErick It's not about learning windows, really. Drop to a cygwin shell. Learn how to compose every task from CLI 'primitives' (find, grep, nl, wc, bc, awk, sed, xargs, diff, cut, od, dd, and at the higher end of the foodchainm pbzip2, mbuffer, pv, ssh, screen/tmux, decent editor, make/jam/waf/scons/cmake/biicode whatever etc)
 
@Columbo Didn't do so yet. I'm planning to do such conscious and either sparely.
 
user3790646
11:18 PM
I use windows to play games too
 
@Blob Convenience?
 
@πάνταῥεῖ dat typo :/
 
@Blob VMWare is fine :P
@sehe As usual :(
 
@AndreyErick I don't play games to avoid windows
 
user3790646
@sehe lol that makes sense2[[]
 
11:20 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ It's not the first. I promise I've let a few (one?) slip :)
 
I play on Linux. Steam has pretty nice linux games.
 
@AndreyErick I don't see any good games.
 
@sehe That's a wonderful world you're missing there.
(Games, not Windows)
 
To each his/her/... preference
 
@sehe Windows is awwwwright.
@sehe Use Xe.
 
11:21 PM
I like it. In many ways. But I was talking about expanding your universe.
 
user3790646
after awl, leenucs si béte tan uindous
 
It's akin to advising people to learn a different programming style (FP vs. OOP)
 
@sehe I feel like you'll be glad to hear about singular they. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they
 
@sehe Pretty sure you did :), but thanks for pointing anyway ...
 
@sehe "their", typically.
 
user3790646
11:21 PM
@sehe why don't you like reading?
 
@πάνταῥεῖ THX? The theatre audio standard?
 
@AndreyErick Huh
 
Stop picking on @πάνταῥεῖ's silly habits
 
user3790646
@sehe you said a while ago that I'd better stop reading books and go to linux
 
11:23 PM
@AndreyErick I love reading. I read too many books on the subjects that we are discussing and I'm still buying more. The thing is, you seem to be focusing on somehow "learning by reading". I was responding to this
@AndreyErick That's a crass summary. You know I didn't say anything like that (though I said the individual parts stitched together)
 
user3790646
I see.
 
It's about priorities.
 
@Nooble k
 
@Blob There you go :)
 
And you'll definitely thank me for doing it in the right order. I was past me would have a mentor to warn him
 
user3790646
11:24 PM
@sehe well I think I'll keep reading programming books because I love them, and I'm learning a lot throughout them
 
@Blob Some of us prefer correct usage instead.
 
@AndreyErick As long as you don't fall into the trap that it substitutes for actual handson experience (that's a thinly veiled form of procrastination really) :)
 
user3790646
k]
 
user3790646
I won't.
 
@JerryCoffin "THX" is pretty understandable, in my opinion.
 
11:25 PM
@AndreyErick Promise?
 
user3790646
@sehe Yes brother.
 
:)
 
user3790646
@sehe why are you giving me tips btw? xD most of people don't even care if I exist
 
@Blob Well, most THX systems produce reasonably clear sound anyway.
 
user3790646
that may be why I fell on depression and panic disorder, idk
 
11:27 PM
My OpenGL triangle runs at 3500 fps. Better optimized than most games I tell you.
 
@Nooble Nice. pics?
 
@AndreyErick Erm... I don't know precisely. I think I just like that you seem to be receptive and smart. I may be wrong (as many in the lounge seem to think) but I'm trusting my own instinct
 
user3790646
morrowind runs at 600 fps here
 
@Blob Sure. If I can find them. Did it a long time ago.
 
user3790646
I'm receptive because I'm brazilian I think
 
user3790646
11:28 PM
most brazilians are receptive
 
Lol. That works.
 
user3790646
but I'm not smart
 
@AndreyErick I have a GTX90080.
 
@Nooble Too bad you don't have a monitor that can display at 3500 FPS (or eyes that can perceive at 3500 or even 350).
 
user3790646
I still got a lot of things to learn
 
11:28 PM
@sehe I feel like he's just reading some books but not really doing any programming.
 
@AndreyErick That's a good sign.
 
user3790646
 
@Blob I spent years doing a lot of reading and very little actual coding (back when I couldn't afford a computer).
 
user3790646
I got some work done, Blob
 
@JerryCoffin Am I correct in guessing you're ~40?
 
11:29 PM
@AndreyErick Did you just...?
 
user3790646
@milleniumbug what?
 
@Blob No.
 
@JerryCoffin 30?
 
@JerryCoffin Oh yeah. Lightning Bulb: This is probably a key factor why I still like spelling out the reference manuals on things like Boost, Vim, C++, POSIX, etc.
 
@Blob No.
 
11:31 PM
@JerryCoffin I'll just stop guessing.
 
user3790646
LOL
 
It's that good old feeling. Sitting at home, treasuring ~10 5.25" floppies (DD! 720KiB IIRC), and just reading program listings. Or writing down virtual programs in basic (yep)
 
@JerryCoffin I'm superkoala.
 
And then throwing ideas away until that day when I could use someone's computer again
 
@Blob Silly you, wasps can't live beyond a few weeks.
 
11:33 PM
@AndreyErick be very naive about privacy (of both you and your client)
 
@Blob Hint: age is mentioned on the profile page.
@AndreyErick ...posted your personal contact details online?
 
@milleniumbug I'd say that's a little too much for a "hint"
 
user3790646
unfortunately.
 
user3790646
but there isn't any br here lol
 
user3790646
so yeah
 
user3790646
11:34 PM
you can't understand
 
user3790646
@sehe I will do that
 
it's pretty intuitive
@AndreyErick Your address, phone #, name, city, and email are all obvious
 
user3790646
.__.
 
user3790646
shit.
 
@AndreyErick and I assume "fixo" probably means some sort of home phone while celular is cellular.
 
11:36 PM
39 mins ago, by sehe
But - I should try to be in bed a few hours earlier today. Let's try ~4 hours earlier.
I can still manage ~3.5hours. So, night all!
 
user3790646
@Blob you're good at guessing
 
@Nooble Ah, hadn't considered that.
 
If I have a templated function and it is passed a std::vector<int> how do I template it so that it can allocate a temp variable of type int in the function? (I searched, but don't seem to be finding things that apply)
 
@Azendale typename Container::value_type
 
@sehe 'night
 
11:39 PM
421
A: Where and why do I have to put the "template" and "typename" keywords?

Johannes Schaub - litbIn order to parse a C++ program, the compiler needs to know for certain names whether they are types or not. The following example demonstrates that t * f; How should this be parsed? For many languages a compiler doesn't need to know the meaning of a name in order to parse and basically know w...

 
@JerryCoffin I can see, smell, and hear at 3500+ FPS.
 
@sehe Double Density was 360 Kb. 720 K was the first generation of 3.5" floppies.
 
@JerryCoffin I distinctly remember floppy disks.
 
@Nooble Do you remember "flippy" disks?
 
@sehe Thank you. I assume that would not work for an array of items, or would it?
 
11:41 PM
@JerryCoffin Mmm. Was it doublesided, double density? I do agree that HD 3.5" was 1.44 MiB
 
Oh, floppy disks. I used them. I use them as the definition of the word "suckage"
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah... those are the kind that you flip, right? No...?
 
These things can break your data 15 minutes after copying things to them.
 
@Azendale template <typename T, size_t N> void foo(T(&array)[N]) { T tmp; } - this is not very typical because C-style arrays are hard to work with.
 
The oldest OS installation disk I have around is windows 95.
 
@Azendale Prefer std::array<T,N> which, incidentally, nicely supports the nested typedef value_type (as well as iterator, const_iterator etc etc)
 
user3790646
gotta program something, see you guys.
 
boost's static_vector is also useful in many situtations
 
@AndreyErick Sure you do :P
 
He's truly the up and coming incarnation of rytfold
 
11:44 PM
@Nooble He'll be back in 5 minutes.
 
Because he's too lazy.
 
@sehe SSSD was ~80 K. SSDD was ~160K. DSDD was originally ~320K, but shortly after that went to 360K (by using more sectors on the outer tracks). Then came the first 3.5" at 720K, and somewhat later 3.5" 1.44M (and around the same time, 5.25" 1.2M).
 
My chicken knows how to knock the front door to get attention.
 
@AndreyErick I'm tracing your IP address using a visual basic GUI I made.
 
@sehe So then maybe I'm trying to hard to build one function that handles std::vector objects and c style array objects, and should just do overloading?
 
11:45 PM
@Azendale iterator pairs, or ranges, or stuff
 
@chmod711telkitty Is this chicken on its way to become, well, chicken?
 
@JerryCoffin Damn, how did we ever cope :) (STACKER and DOUBLEDISK!)
 
@Nooble A "flippy" was when you had a single-sided drive, but double-sided disks were close to the same price as single sided, so you'd cut a notch in the jacket and flip it over to write on the other side.
 
@Azendale Not at all: template <typename Container> foo(Container const& c) { for (auto& element : c) { std::cout << element << "\n"; } no problem.
 
@milleniumbug I'm not sure I understand. I assume that's a question?
 
11:47 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Is data-oriented programming used a lot at your job?
 
@sehe ...and programs painstakingly written to occupy slightly less space than humanly possible.
 
wrong name :)
 
@Azendale Just remember to use the ADL enabled versions of std::begin/std::end (google/SO that). If c++03, Boost Range has the same
@JerryCoffin Overlays! TSR programs!
 
@JerryCoffin Since floppy disks are magnetically read/written from, wouldn't this introduce a risk of overwriting data from the other side?
 
@Azendale See sehe's example. It's a templated function that takes a range.
Also, <algorithm> has many templated functions that take iterator pairs.
 
11:50 PM
@Nooble Not much--the disks were designed to have both sides written. The danger (at least according to the manufacturers) was that the jacket was designed to get dirt off the disk, and spinning in reverse could dislodge dirt. I don't recall ever seeing a flipped disk fail, but didn't use them for anything really critical either.
@Azendale No, just going at it the wrong way. You can use std::begin and std::end to get iterators, and std::iterator_traits<T>::value_type to get a value type for a container or an array.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes have you seen twitter.com/johnregehr/status/558020406762688513? I think you'll find it pretty cool
> An evaluation of state-of-the-art compilers that reveals more than 50 missing
local optimizations that involve only two operations.
 

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