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20:00
@Fanael That's a good point. The last few rigs I've built had a minimum multiplier setting. (i.e. I couldn't set my i7 4770K's multiplier below around 12 IIRC)
@JerryCoffin Which is exactly what I got :P
I don't know if it's just a BIOS restriction, or an actual hardware restriction.
Maybe the chip has some capacitor refresh circuitry like DRAM that requires a refresh every now and then and you can't wait too long.
why would the BIOS restrict it to 12 or higher
^^
@Mysticial Intel used to use dynamic logic, which restricted the minimum processor frequency. I believe they switched to static logic quite a while ago though (pretty much necessary for a lot of current power-saving modes and such).
20:05
TARS STOP BEING A WANKER AND GET ON WITH IT
I'M SICK OF YOUR SHIT, TARS
@JerryCoffin Oh, that's what it's called. "dynamic logic". Didn't know that.
@Mysticial That's the usual term, yeah. It's not quite like DRAM, but sort of the same general idea. It doesn't usually involve actual refresh, but eliminates some latches by temporarily storing data in the parasitic capacitance of a circuit. You still need to read the data before the capacitor self-discharges via leakage current though (and given how high leakage is in modern processes, I'm not sure it would even work any more).
Not sure, but it seems like the last CPUs I remember using it were probably something like 1 micron fabrication node.
Of course area isn't a problem anymore.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit try a straitjacket
20:12
you're a straitjacket
Intel's sorta like, "Fuck this. Since we can't make our chips any faster and we have a lot of area, we'll just give you morbidly obese SIMD units and see what you can do with it."
user1804599
I like how Ocelot drops mousetraps when you shake him.
user784668
@Mysticial Intel in 2018: page-size SIMD
@Mysticial I think Intel's attitude is closer to: "we have to do something to keep chips from getting too small, or prices will drop more than we like."
@Fanael Yeah. We're getting cacheline SIMD in 2016 (AVX512). Next step is page-size. Then it's L1 cache-size.
20:16
@JerryCoffin It's not like competition with AMD is going to push prices down.
@Puppy I suspect Intel's probably more concerned with big chunks of the market going to ARM-based devices.
I agree
they seem far more likely to eat Intel's lunch.
The only answer I'm going to need for any questions going forward: "utilize omniscience" — Pops ♦ 39 mins ago
I've been sat here spinning for a month now TARS.
@sehe Does seem to cover a lot. The bigger problem seems to be OPs that apparently believe all of us are omniscient though.
20:22
what, you aren't omniscient?
@Puppy I am, but it appears that most people writing answers aren't (and despite my omniscience, I'm a slow typist, so I can't answer them all).
fair enough
although it seems to me that ARM devices and Intel devices aren't really in that much competition
Intel is trying to drive x86 into the embedded market.
On the eve of xmas, I've nothing funnier than learning graph algorithms
That feels ... wrong
user1804599
Oh look I found our college project from two years ago. github.com/Project42/game
20:30
@rightføld lol
@rightføld The readme.txt was particularly informative.
@rightføld greenfoot .... nnooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
@Rerito yup. a day early, roughly
At least that's stimulating my brain, I guess
@rightføld most of the .java files I've opened were generated templates
0
Q: Does const use more or less memory than #define typically?

radix07I understand how each works, but I was curious if one or the other actually is more efficient memory-wise. #define seems to be used all the time in the embedded C world, but I am wondering if it is actually justified over a const most of the time. If one is more efficient than the other, does a...

ugh =/
user1804599
20:33
@sehe :D
@Borgleader Depends on the compiler and the datatype.
user1804599
class files in Git lol.
@AlexPana importantly, the .class files are also revision controlled
@sehe I knew something was wrong...
user784668
Yes.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — Fanael 16 secs ago
20:35
Right. Who they let have it was an important part of the transaction. Its not like they just put Alaska up on Ebay and anybody could bid. — T.E.D. ♦ Jun 20 '12 at 16:32
@JerryCoffin Typical software documentation
@rightføld looked it up. The "goatse operator" is every bit as repulsive as I gathered from the naming
ack
I am trapped expending my whole holiday doing absolutely nothing.
user1804599
ack is nice
user1804599
I should write a Stratego AI.
user1804599
20:48
yummy pie
Geez... This motherboard can take 1.5 TB of ram.
But it requires 64GB DIMMs and the largest I see are 32GB at ~1k USD a piece. lol
user1804599
nice
@Mysticial that's nice for a laptop :)
1.5TB of RAM, lol
All on one motherboard.
20:52
@rightføld instead make something useful like GPU-Based Acceleration For PostgreSQL
user1804599
@sehe I always wondered whether JIT compilation for query plans would make a noticeable difference.
Ell
Ell
@Mysticial woah
I'd just be permanently on a ramdisk
@Mysticial what
Ell
Ell
that commits on shutdown
user1804599
@Ell lol
20:53
@rightføld well, your answer is in that slide deck
Ell
Ell
or when idle
user1804599
@Ell that sounds better
I remember bragging about my 64GB of ram in 2009 when I was still in school.
But 1.5 TB is a completely different level.
user1804599
Yeah.
user1804599
20:55
It's like 1.5TB / 64GB times as much.
4
Ell
Ell
8GB is ample for me
@Mysticial what do you use 64GB of ram for?
@Ell This was very early stages of that Pi program.
user1804599
> 10 x SATA 6.0Gb/s
what's weird about that?
Ell
Ell
it should have SAS maybe
or whatever the server fancy ones are called
20:58
@Ell I started with a dual-socket motherboard. Put 1 CPU and 16GB ram in it. Once I realized that my algorithm worked, my parents "authorized" me to fully load it up. So it became a 2-processor (8 core) machine with 64GB.
I still have that machine now, but it's more or less retired.
user1804599
@Mysticial Now you can finally open Eclipse!
sickness avoidance system?
just use a pilot kerbal
user1804599
I like playing video games.
user1804599
It lets me escape reality.
user1804599
And forget about my miserable unlife.
21:02
@rightføld ...in only 10 minutes.
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz hi!111
user1804599
@JerryCoffin eclipse still works nicely for Java work at work
user1804599
@rightføld I'm not here
user1804599
21:07
:'( Where are you?
@BartekBanachewicz Hi Ghost of Bartek. How are you today?
@rightføld at my parents' place
user1804599
Nice.
user1804599
Time to make a video game.
@JerryCoffin I'm fine. Looking for a game to play with my brother and dad
@rightføld no, it's not
21:09
why am I still here
user1804599
I finally know how to do graphics.
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz Cool--enjoy (when you find one).
21:17
I think we're gonna go with Broforce
@Ell this looks cool tho
Ell
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz it's so awesome.
Speedrunners is boring.
I thought it'd be fun but those meh controls ruined everything.
Ell
Ell
change them? :3
lol I don't mean the keybinding.
I mean how you control the character in general.
Ell
Ell
Oh lol
user1804599
21:23
@BartekBanachewicz Stratego
user1804599
The board game, not some shitty videogame.
user1804599
haha
user1804599
junk
Naw.
I like TTS.
Ell
Ell
21:26
my git commit won't disappear :3
after git reset --soft c30e3286, the commit shouldn't appear in the log should it?
@sehe you are also a phoronix reader?
eeeeee i'm confused
warning LNK4099: PDB 'libcmtd.pdb' was not found with 'LIBCMTD.lib'
VS doesn't have those pdbs?
@Ell is there another branch pointing to that commit ?
Ell
Ell
There was only one branch pointing to it
it was a merge commit
I force deleted the branch and it seems to have worked anyway vOv
@rightføld Stratego was a good game.
user1804599
21:34
Git is fascinating.
user1804599
@CaptainGiraffe Still is.
@rightføld The nature of board games have changed. Stratego was well designed, nowadays there are a lot more well designed games.
user1804599
I like Game of the Goose.
user1804599
And Mensch ärgere dich nicht.
21:37
Never played it. If we are looking for perfect games I'm preferential to the card game Skat.
Mensch ärgere dich nicht is only useful to seed spite between different branches of family during holidays. Good call though =)
@bamboon yes, why?
@thecoshman that's awesome rendering and AI. I'm not sure I'd like the story line though
Hi @sehe Merry christmas.
Jolly holidays everyone :).
@sehe I like it, too. It's cool that it combines hardware + linux stuff
@ScarletAmaranth you too
@bamboon I imagine there are thousands more like us ... :)
21:53
@CaptainGiraffe ...or, as I told a guy whose bride-to-be was an unusually happy girl named "Mary", "Marry merry Mary".
user1804599
Hardware is so boring.
user1804599
Software master race.
@JerryCoffin =) How did that work out?
@CaptainGiraffe Well, he didn't hit me. I'm not sure how the marriage worked out--I'm afraid I lost track of them years ago.
'He didn't hit me' Is a good outcome. A good outcome is a good outcome. Maybe I'm stating the obvious here. But good == good.
22:00
@sehe Probably ^^
user1804599
I win.
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr me iz pirate, my hat is cool
Let's just make this a bit bigger
So the picture will be bigger too :P
I'm wondering if it can be enlargened
Test123
Indeed I think :D
How come Iron Maiden did this back in 1792? youtube.com/watch?v=0Tb8Jo11uGo
@Gizmo Already getting a swollen head. Hope we don't have to cut you down to size.
@JerryCoffin swollen head? o.o Did something bad happen to you? :(
@CaptainGiraffe wow 300 years, alot of time!
22:06
@Gizmo To me? No. Nothing bad ever happens to me. It's not allowed.
@JerryCoffin good :)
@Gizmo 300 years of what?
@Gizmo You should read interview with the Vampire. Then you'll realize why messing with Jerry is a bad thing. (Rice)
@JerryCoffin well @CaptainGiraffe said they performed their music back in 1792, that's astonishing!
@CaptainGiraffe Mess? Nooooo, wouldn't do that, I just reply to @'s
It's on youtube, just moving into the romantic era.
22:11
@Gizmo Yes, but what does that have to do with 300 years? 300 years ago would be 1714. 1792 is only ~220 years ago.
Ell
Ell
time to fix my html!
@Ell luck my no need for html, just C somewhere here and there and mostly C++
@Ell Good idea. We definitely do not want allow HTML to reproduce.
letting JS to reproduce is a greater evil ...
is there some higher level language than HTML? you know like C++ code gets translated into assembly. If HTML would be the equivalen to 'assembly' in web development, what would the higher language be?
22:18
too much alcohol isn't good for you
says the guy who had too much
@TonyTheLion too much water too
@chmod711telkitty Dude, current javascript is fine, it is th lusers that are creating the war.
Ell
Ell
@Gizmo I don't think there is
It doesn't really make sense
Browsers read HTML and turn it into a dom
I guess a javascript programme that puts a dom into memory. but it doesn't really make sense
@Ell I dunno, in C++ it makes sense, you have nice development tools and everything, finally everything (your config, code, etc) gets turned into some output. Which in life you wouldn't want to write yourself at such low level
just as I think assembly is something i don't want to write myself.. I don't want to write html myself ever in my life too
Ell
Ell
22:20
@TonyTheLion gimme 5 mins
Is there a python equivalent to std::map::operator[]
ergo "If it exists, give it to me. Otherwise create it"?
@Rapptz "If it exists, give it to me. Otherwise create it, and then give it to me"?
Yes.
22:22
;)
Ell
Ell
@Rapptz I think you can pass something when you create it
or maybe it's a different class, defaultdict or something
lmao
have to make my own class
@Rapptz get
I do admit maps are nice, but I don't do other languages, it feels like cheating on C++, though, if I ever need scripting I go and implement AngelScript into my apps. Best. scripting langage. ever.
22:23
@bamboon No.
Ell
Ell
looks kind of silly because it doesn't pass the key
get does not create anything.
@Rapptz it does if you pass a default arg
or doesn't it?
No
It just returns that if it isn't found
It doesn't create it and place it in the map.
> Return the value for key if key is in the dictionary, else default. If default is not given, it defaults to None, so that this method never raises a KeyError.
user1804599
Oh TPP will prolly be released in February.
user1804599
22:25
cool
user1804599
I know when to take a day off. :3
@Ell Is it in 2.7?
I'm kinda wondering, if your job is programming/development, do you in that case also have hobbies related to programming?
indeed
Right, makes sense as otherwise why would you need defaultdict.
22:27
Thanks @Ell
@Ell where you at?
Ell
Ell
@TonyTheLion bear with me. audio seems to have broken
std::map has a nicer interface than dict.
:|
@Ell oh you :)
Ell
Ell
@Rapptz yup
I was really surprised at the poor interface
ruby's interface is better
you can pass a block which accepts a key for it to generate default values from
user1804599
22:32
I like Clojure's maps.
I found this.
setdefault(key[, default])

If key is in the dictionary, return its value. If not, insert key with a value of default and return default. default defaults to None.
weird name but whatever
works for me
user1804599
Eww.
user1804599
Setters that return values.
@Ell it's what bears do. They chew on your cables, e.g.
user1804599
22:36
Sleeptime!
user1804599
Byebye!
@rightføld G'night.
Ell
Ell
@rightføld Night
@TonyTheLion mumble keeps crashing when I'm configuring my audio
I might be a while
But I'll keep trying
the fuck?
Ell
Ell
Ahh switching from pulseaudio to ALSA seems to have worked
22:39
pls fix your software to talk to drunk tony
:P
@TonyTheLion That is going to take me a couple of years.
@TonyTheLion Woo! @TonyTheLion is talking to me. I must have fixed all of my software.
@Nican <3
@TonyTheLion <3
22:55
@Nican Just be careful--even over Mumble, a Lion's roar is not to be taken lightly.
Dammit. I was looking for micro-ATX socket 2011-3 boards with 8 ram slots. I guess that's too much to ask for... :(
@sehe lol, best review yet.
@JerryCoffin :)
what's the best static code analysis tool for C++?
A C++ compiler?
22:58
nope
there's basically nothing else
A C++ compiler is a pretty good static checker if you turn on all the warnings.
nobody would write a C++ analysis tool that could not be used as a compiler because it would be such a ridiculous investment.
lp.checkmarx.com/adwords-search-source-code-analysis/…{QueryString}‌​&leadsource=PPC&lead_sub_source__c=google&gclid=CLug44Gi3cICFRKUfgodjAEA3A
epic fail
23:00
^^
it seems CheckMatrix is the best tool so far
but, i don't know how to get a trial version
@Triumphant coverity, cppcheck, viva64 etc
@sehe Cppcheck is almost useless, many dangeous code can't be found by Cppcheck
i'm very disappointed on Cppcheck
Writing a good C++ static analyzer is probably at least as hard as writing a C++ compiler.
At that point, you might as well call it a compiler.
@Mysticial I just want a CPU that integrates, say, 64 Gig. of RAM and a few (maybe 8?) 10 GbE ports. Then the motherboard can just be a socket with connections to the power supply and Ethernet PHYs.
23:06
@JerryCoffin It's definitely heading in that direction...
@Mysticial But I want it now! :-)
Fund a kickstarter
The only mATX rig I've ever built was this:
May 11 at 11:26, by Mysticial
user image
And it was nice because it was so small...
I don't think I can fit 8 cores and 64GB of quad-channel DDR4 into the same size though. :(
At least not right now.
DDR4 is still expensive as hell
does Windows even support DDR4?
I'm actually not sure
The OS knows nothing about the memory type.
23:11
I don't think that's too true.
Referring to "Heartbleed, Shellshock and POODLE", as people do in 2014 reviews, is like saying Hitler, Stalin and a pickpocket.
It knows enough to tell me what kind of RAM I have at the very least.
Claps for Windows
It can definitely read information about it. But it certainly doesn't need to know what the memory is. (aside from the quantity)
Need a value? Pass by value http://josephmansfield.uk/articles/need-value-pass-by-value.html via @sftrabbit #cpp #cplusplus
Refreshing
23:16
Dec 8 '13 at 23:00, by FredOverflow
@ThePhD Why do you grab the tits by value?
Dec 8 '13 at 23:01, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@FredOverflow Because that means you can grab them even after the original owner goes away.
@Mysticial I've wondered in the past why intel's chipsets come with driver disks o.O
@sehe I don't even install it. lol
Me neither.
Me niether. I consider that cruft malware/adware
The only time I've had to is because I wanted to enable the port multiplier on my eSATA port.
23:21
Ell
Ell
@TonyTheLion baii
Night everone
"What The Hell Is Pi Doing Here?" Source: http://bit.ly/1x0ojPJ http://t.co/QrI1sK6lKf
@Mysticial seen this?
lol nope
It's nice. I like that kind of trivia
23:33
@sehe Most of it is drivers for things like their SATA, Ethernet, WiFi, etc., chips, as well as some of the things that used to be separate chips but are now integrated into the north bridge (e.g., programmable interrupt controller).
Fuck QCS violation.
What is QCS ? /cc @rightføld
quantum chromodynamic something
@sehe Quirky Collection iterator invalidation ruleS.
quality code surveillance
@rightføld I think I feel the same way. I (mostly) loathe fluent interfaces.
They're usually overly cute and very very surprising. They basically "work" if you are willing blindly follow some kind if intellisense implementation and happy to "guess" what the semantics will end up being.
23:37
@sehe That is pretty awesome.
you know
I realized to this day that I never knew what Java Beans were actually for.
I mean, I got the part where you called the methods setX and getX so you could find them via reflection, but I don't understand why you'd want to go about finding some subset of methods meeting this pattern via reflection.
@TomášZato It's not wrong. It's confusing because you answer a question asked from someone else (that can't work) and seem like you still have "a problem" ("but the sound service cannot start"). I, for one, will not assume that the rest of the context is the same as the OP's in 2011, because in >3 years hardware and software changed significantly. If you wanted to achieve something with that comment, you should consider opening a new question. — sehe 30 secs ago
@Puppy They're /for/ reflectible services (interop, remoting, serialization etc)
Many libraries have spawned around this for generating hash methods, comparers, indexables etc. etc.
hmm
certainly not how I would have gone about such things but that's Java programmers for you
23:55

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