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12:00
@Xeo Racket factor
The term annual percentage rate of charge (APR), corresponding sometimes to a nominal APR and sometimes to an effective APR (or EAPR), describes the interest rate for a whole year (annualized), rather than just a monthly fee/rate, as applied on a loan, mortgage loan, credit card, etc. It is a finance charge expressed as an annual rate. Those terms have formal, legal definitions in some countries or legal jurisdictions, but in general: The nominal APR is the simple-interest rate (for a year). The effective APR is the fee+compound interest rate (calculated across a year). In some areas, the annual...
Xeo
Xeo
ah
Annualized interest rate
Xeo
Xeo
hm. my amazon shopping cart is at ~92eur.
and that's still not all of the stuff I want / need
OTOH, in 2 weeks it's paycheck time again
and I'm still at over 1k.
Budget's important not account balance
12:03
my budget is shit :(
as is my account balance
I don't know what I'm doing wrong as my expenditure hasn't changed and the more I stare at graphs the less clear it becomes
makes no sense
Xeo
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus ye, budget all says all's fine for now.
Budget is determined by what you'll think your account balance will be.
i daren't even check my balance
@LightnessRacesinOrbit it's the currys
I fart before I check my bank balance, it helps :P
12:04
I haven't been to Curry's in years
@LightnessRacesinOrbit $-0.00
well that's true; I have no dollars
There's this thing called conversion.
It appears there are people that make money of it too.
shit I do indeed once again have less than desired
although if I'm really careful I can still at least stay out of my overdraft this month
so that's nice
good luck
Xeo
Xeo
12:06
I don't think I've ever been into the red on my bank accounts.
Hm, guess I should actually buy YNAB before the trial period ends, eh.
I love owing bank money, borrowing @ 5% per year or less & earning 10% per year on them
nothing is more fun than making money using other people's money
guess I am what you get when finance knowledge meets a genius >_<
</shameless self promotion>
also looks like I have enough points for a free flight
albeit it would be domestic or one way ... or maybe both
you're obviously not in Italy
@chmod711telkitty 10% a year is good but it's not insane.
I did 20% last year for example, also on borrowed money. People in the office who actually used our product did 27%.
may I borrow your money?
12:22
@BenjaminGruenbaum I have been conservative, the return I got is more than that ... but I don't care money all that much, because if I do, I would be able to make way more than that. I am doing what I want to do which bring me not much income but I am making a bit from other things & that's just great!
Yeah, that's nice.
@Xeo :(
I really don't know how I spend so much. It's not as if I live particularly lavishly.
Fuck.
Nosebleed again.
Xeo
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit YNAB.
You'd think simply reading my statements would reveal something, but for whatever reason I just can't see it.
To be fair, my expenses are quite high.
Then it's like £40 or so every time I go out, and if I do that ~2-3 times a week that really adds up more quickly than is intuitive.
~£400 on fuel per month, ~£200 on food, blah blah blah
Xeo
Xeo
12:31
1 min ago, by Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit YNAB.
car insurance, heating, council tax,
I do have a budget!
that's why I'm #confuse
400 on fuel per month?
jesus
Xeo
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You have YNAB?
:P
and only 200 on food?
12:31
~£400 on fuel per month, ~£200 on food - your car needs to be on a diet
I get much of that back as expenses from work, but I sort of forget to consider that when my paycheque comes in :P
@chmod711telkitty It's not my car's fault
no, it's your fault for choosing that car
@orlp That's quite a lot for a month
that's like 6.70 per day
@chmod711telkitty no, it's my fault for having a job where I must drive ~600 miles per week
hang on
~300
12:33
can always rent your place out & rent one nearby
Xeo
Xeo
@orlp Month is half over, and I have spent... ~60 eur so on food? including delivery orders and snacks.
@orlp I could probably get it down to £130 if I really tried
@chmod711telkitty Well, yeah, I could, but there's a reason I live here. This is my home. This is where my friends are.
I'd move jobs before I moved home.
Xeo
Xeo
My main expenses currently come from hobby stuff..
lol, moving is a lot easier when you own the place. I have done both & quite frequently too ... lot of reasons: go to uni, new jobs, bought my own place, moving to one of my parents place then moved to another
Anyway, as I say, work pays the fuel. But because I'm spending it through the month, I don't really see it that way. I just consider that I earn £X whereas in fact I earn ~£X-400 and don't pay petrol
12:34
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You should try both at once!
so it keeps coming as a bit of a surprise
@R.MartinhoFernandes maldives!
Xeo
Xeo
especially with everything that's going on wrt Sekai Project and the visual novel community right now...
@chmod711telkitty what do you mean
@Xeo lol I wonder what having hobbies is like; sounds nice
@chmod711telkitty I do own the place
I have literally zero interest in moving
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, it's fun
12:35
though yeah that mortgage payment doesn't help either
I'm also paying ~£200 student loan and ~£200 other debt repayments per month
but none of this is the issue. I budget for that. I can afford it.
What I don't understand is how I get through what's left so fast
Xeo
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit YNAB! that'd tell you how.
Suddenly found myself in my overdraft last month (£900!!!) for the first time in about six years. Still haven't quite figured out how I managed it.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit well if you're not eating/drinking that away what are you doing
@orlp it is easier because new tenant can help you handle mail for a little while after you moved out, you can also negotiate rent if you could not moving everything out by certain time. Anytime you want to do something you should not be under normal rental lease, just reduce the rent.
@Xeo My Excel spreadsheets are good though getting a bit clunky now. I tried some accounting software and it was all shit. Perhaps I'll try this. Ironic that you have to pay for it after the first month, though.
Budgeting for budgeting software within the budgeting software for which you budgeted.
12:37
There was this one time when I got slapped in the face very hard by taxes
Xeo
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Better than having to pay for it from the get-go
I think my problem is that a sequence of £40 ATM withdrawals doesn't look like much, but quickly becomes many hundreds. So the balance goes down unintuitively quickly
Xeo
Xeo
Evaluation periods are nice
especially since it's not feature-restricted, AFAICT
12:38
@LightnessRacesinOrbit mint.com
I shall evaluate it
Xeo
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I rarely carry hard cash on me.
@Mgetz I wanted it but, last I checked, didn't support my bank
Xeo
Xeo
If I ever need hard cash, I withdraw it just a short time before.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit that sucks, because it's really quite nice
12:38
stroke country
Xeo
Xeo
and I only ever withdraw ~20/30eur
@Xeo Yeah, same. I don't carry cash around until I need it. £40 is £25 for a night's drinks & smokes, £10 taxi home and a little spare
user1804599
61
A: How to get to an island with a tree in the middle if all you have is rope?

A E Sell a substantial quantity of rope to a rope manufacturer (who should be willing to buy it so long as the price you're asking is lower than their production cost - that's fine from your point of view because you have an infinite amount of rope at zero cost). Hire a helicopter and pilot. Fly to ...

user1804599
ahahahahah 4
Xeo
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Here's an idea: Cut the smoking!
12:39
(the way there is covered by the bus)
@Xeo Yeah. But £100 doesn't account for my problems.
Xeo
Xeo
it accounts for some, though
wouldn't be a bad idea, of course
you come back to the lounge because we can save you some cigarette & alcohol money, isn't it? :')
@LightnessRacesinOrbit If you're seriously paying 400 a month in fuel I'd get a stinking diesel, and one with decent mileage too. The car will pay for itself in saved fuel costs
@Mgetz I love my car. Granted, it doesn't do great mileage but, as I said already, I don't pay for that fuel. Not really.
YNAB: "would you like to use CloudSync?" I think not
also I'd never buy a diesel. they suck for the env. though they are well fun to drive..
12:43
don't know about you but I hate driving in peak traffic
indeed
> Choose a name for your new budget
what
how about "I don't want to be destitute plzkthx"
guess I need to pick a codeword
@LightnessRacesinOrbit nonono, something like snacks
the idea is to break down your spending as much as possible
So you make multiple budgets? I guess I have no idea what this YNAB thing actually does.
I want it to track and report on my spending.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit yep
@Mgetz gas cars are more efficient if you drive in a city
hybrid even more so
Xeo
Xeo
12:44
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I did - uses dropbox.
clothing budget, fuel, food, etc
diesels make sense if you go long distances over highways
@BartekBanachewicz hahahaha not mine
Xeo
Xeo
@Mgetz I only have one budget plan, and actually manage that stuff under categories.
12:45
@Mgetz I meant LPG.
"Welcome to the budget. This is where you'll assign all of your dollars to jobs." oh fuck off
Any Jenkins people here?
Xeo
Xeo
OTOH, I might be doing it wrong :P
@Mr.kbok ye
A sequence of 40€ ATM withdrawals doesn't look like much unless you leave the money there.
@BartekBanachewicz ah right, that's not used for most consumer vehicles here in the states. Fleet vehicles use it all the time though
12:46
I never really had a budget ... weird, but I don't have a taste for expensive things ... I know how much I usually spend, occasionally I am short in cash - rarely, but it happens. I never feel like I really need a lot more money.
@R.MartinhoFernandes good one
@Mgetz a lot of cars have it retrofitted here
@Xeo Any suggestion for a test harness for a custom workflow?
I use TAP but... it sucks
@BartekBanachewicz they probably should be here, the US is a net exporter of LPG at the moment
it cuts down the fuels costs to about 60%
12:47
does anyone know what "Tithing" means?
but you need to change filters for that too and calibrate it so the net gain isn't that big
oh apparently religious nuts give X% of their income to charity. lol
but it's still enough to make it worthwile
I wanted an 1.8T engine but I think I'll go with 1.4 or 1.6 because gas is expensive :/
How is giving to charity "nuts"?
The upper side of not caring about money so much is that you always find cash in the pockets or drawers where you forgot them, you will be like 'woah extra cash, how nice!'
12:49
@BartekBanachewicz the issue here in the US is finding an approved place that will allow you to fill up. As most LPG places won't fill up a car, they will only fill up bottles. The FedExs of the world have their own filling stations and do it themselves.
oh, that sucks
ironically in Poland they don't fill up bottles on stations
haha "Health insurance" suckerrrs
it's a consequence of the fact that LPG is sold by weight here, and selling by volume would incur large losses
though in theory I suppose you could just set your car up to use Bottles
So, is Rust any good?
12:52
I'm getting bored with C++.
:-p
@rubenvb learn Haskell
@rubenvb the language itself - perhaps, the new ideas in the language - definitely
@Mgetz I don't think so.
@BartekBanachewicz Tried, too much abstract concepts for me to learn in fun-time.
@BartekBanachewicz where have you seen the borrow checker before?
12:53
huh... team feed back was interesting. Clearly wasn't just every ass kissing each other, but not a huge amount of "things to work on" came out of it for people, at least nothing major... could it just be we are a good team that get on well?
@rubenvb you don't have to be a pro at once you know
@BartekBanachewicz now your statement means nothing
:19950494 since I explicitly said the new ideas
> checking account
sigh
@BartekBanachewicz bah, it's just so counterintuitive. I learnt basic C first, then basic C++, then basic Java, then dived into C++ nose-first.
@rubenvb it's not counterintuitive in general.
it's different from what you know.
also that's the point
Why learn another similar language?
12:55
Or maybe I should learn C#
@BartekBanachewicz Name two similar languages?
Now that that's going all-platform.
@BenjaminGruenbaum C# Java
Haskell Erlang
Haskell Idris
PHP Perl hurr
meh, it can't import data from my bank. I'd waste like two days a month doing it by hand
12:56
Idris is haskell.
@BenjaminGruenbaum it's not :P
Erlang is very different from Haskell, it's dynamically typed, has mutable types, and a very different notion of concurrency. It does data types differently (with records, although they changed that) Aside from both being functional - they're different languages.
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz LOL
I don't like the way it does this. Trying to "budget" for everything. I don't want to "budget". I want to track. Meh
ATM the entire system is guesswork
12:57
C# and Java are also very different: value types, runtime generics, first order functions, generators, extension methods, etc etc etc.
Xeo
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It does both.
How? I can't see a place to add my income
Xeo
Xeo
You decide how much to budget for what
and then you add transactions that add / deduct money from your account
but that's silly
user1804599
C# and Java are mostly the same. They have slightly different feature sets but the principles are pretty much identical.
Xeo
Xeo
12:58
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Left side, "Account" -> add transaction
@rightføld They diverged quite a lot in the last 5-10 years.
alright let me give this a go
Xeo
Xeo
Make it a repeating transaction for recurring stuff (like your paycheck)
I'll do one month and see how well it works from there
@BartekBanachewicz I agree it's better to learn a different paradigm though
10$ says bartek went on to check if Erlang is a dynamic language with mutable types :D
12:59
I should learn javascript one day
@BenjaminGruenbaum knew that already
though I can't see an easy way to do a previous month; there is no "Income" category for them
Xeo
Xeo
Note that YNAB says "overbudgeted" for the months where you haven't received your paycheck yet, but that's fine - just make sure your "budgeted" column isn't bigger than your paycheck

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