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09:00
but doing it on national television while explaining your research? lol
maybe it was just his last clean shirt.
then you buy a shirt?
I dno
hell
you wear a dirty shirt
Xeo
Xeo
Iunno. I just think all this sexism stuff is escalating into the extremes.
I can't imagine that as a space engineer you're rolling in mud, so no one will even notice
@Xeo I don't think so
@Xeo Stupid article.
Not sure why this is news.
Xeo
Xeo
09:04
vOv
Stupid article
honestly it feels kinda dubious to me
I honestly feel that sexism is still a huge problem culturally
it almost certainly is but I'm not convinced that this is any particular evidence of it
Perhaps most of the problems on a legal level are gone in western states
but culturally there's still massive blatant sexism going on
and not just by males, females too
and not just cross-gender, also males expecting "man-like behaviour" from other males, and girls doing the same to other girls or themselves
sexual objectification of women is an example of this
but a massive example is also that there are very, very little female software engineers
09:09
man
just take a moment or two and ask yourself why this is the case
not this again
I'm already done with my rant, don't worry
user1646075
@sehe Brotherhood of dumms
put it on a blog m8
09:15
@Rapptz nah I'm not going full tumblr
I guess I am not very womanly being a software developer who loved share trading & currently working on a construction site.
I don't see why those industries are male dominated though
> I am not very womanly being
> womanly
@chmod711telkitty because most people do not want to get judged by arbitrary restrictions put forth by the sexist community (which can include themselves), they want to fit in what's considered "womanly"
my apparence/physical being is the only apparent feminine thing on me - see my current avatar (just uploaded probably need an hour to reflect on the chat)
@chmod711telkitty I'm afraid I need confirmation of that
xD
I wonder why I can't make a file with python.
If I do my_api.create('filename') it doesn't work but if I pass in a stream object it does.
I don't get it.
09:21
@Rapptz what is my_api.create?
some module I made
@Rapptz link codez?
here's an SSCCE
IOError isn't raised
you can even print inside of it and it'll show up
(I'm on Windows btw)
haven't tried on Linux but I suspect it's the same
trying now
is it important it's in a seperate module in your testing?
yes
if the function is in the same file it works
09:24
and python version?
2.7
lemme try 3k
works with 3k
can't repro on linux with 2.7.6
lol
Hmmm
@Rapptz are you sure you're not accidently importing some old .pyc?
yeah
09:27
So... Firefox doesn't trust it's own certificates. Good job
sec let me go to my windows machine
oddly enough it works now
man
what is going on :(
@Rapptz are you sure it wasn't an old .pyc? sounds exactly like it
@orlp He does wear his dirtiest shirt
I don't even have .pyc files
09:28
@sehe touche
@sehe did you have a mitm proxy?
@Rapptz then you have them hidden?
@Abyx Oh good. I do
No I don't
@Rapptz .pyc files are always generated unless you explicitly turn them off
09:28
@Abyx I forget about that sometimes
Derp
dunno, sometimes I forget to turn off Fiddler
@Rapptz do you have the PYTHONDONTWRITEBYTECODE variable set or use python -B?
anyways, that "Firefox doesn't trust it's own certificates" is bullshit 'cuz you didn't show the certificate rejection reason
Hmrh
Nah
@Rapptz then you're generating .pyc files
09:31
By 'I don't have any .pyc files' I meant that I removed them
oh
but did you ever reproduce your issue after deleting them and then running again?
yes
then I don't know sorry
and can't help further since you can't reproduce anymore either
(nothing is worse than a bug that magically disappears without having done any effort to fix it)
I believe they're called heisenbugs
heisenbug is similar
a bug that disappears when you attempt to study it :P
I guess in this case that applies
09:41
@R.MartinhoFernandes For the record, that's how you fix a malfunctioning starter. Sometimes it just locks in place and a gentle tap with a hammer while starting the engine can unlock it. It didn't in our case so it's probably more severly damaged.
@TonyTheLion that's a downvote
@sehe what you mean?
now I'm frustrated
I think I'll just take in a filename
rather than a stream object
and hope no one experiences my bug
@Rapptz a stream object is better API design
@Rapptz because it allows you to pass in a memory writer if you don't want to create a file
the entire point of this is to create files
it is the entire reason I made this
I'll take in the stream object anyway I guess
just in case I want to use sys.stdout or whatever
@thecoshman big empty places tend to echo
09:47
SourceTree still cannot order files in a stable manner when selectively indexing
god
@orlp that's harsh. There's artificial insemination these days, fertility therapy too
@sehe fertility therapy?
@sehe ah
@sehe Is that a psychologist for your dick?
> The string "Tony" is bad and you should feel bad
09:58
I blew my nose and blood started pouring out.
I'm dying.
Happens to me every time I have a cold for > a week
Guys
are you going to meeting c++ this year?
I'm not
10:00
I'm not but I'll be in Berlin.
For different purposes. Like dying.
I'm sure there are a lot of more pleasant activities available in Berlin
Oh shit. Now I forgot my pills.
Man, it's in three weeks
No way I'm going to find a ticket at this rate
Nothing works properly in this piece of junk body. Not the brain, not the nose, not the stomach, not the hands.
Xeo
Xeo
not the GPS.
10:11
@R.MartinhoFernandes the beard isn't too bad
I shaved.
I have no idea why. I look like a 17-year-old now.
And it's gonna take ages to grow back. Like I wanted to guarantee my Future Self's lasting annoyance.
so what made you decide that shaving is a good idea?
I like the beard style but it's kind of a pain to take care of
Here's a thing:
I'm working on raising the Joel Score of my team
Xeo
Xeo
I got a beard trimmer and just go over the whole shebang every few weeks to keep it trimmed.
So far we are really lacking in those points: source control (shitty system), building (no factory), daily builds (not), bug database (not), schedule (not), spec (not), testers (not)
10:24
> Evolution is fucking amazing. I bet you could see specific parts of my brain lighting up on an mri when she does that shrug
> horny 14yo
wtf dude
honry
Xeo
Xeo
^
With the setup of git, a build factory and automated testing, we tick 4 lines
Xeo
Xeo
@Mr.kbok lessee... yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, kinda, not for long :<
10:26
not for long?
Xeo
Xeo
we kinda had a restructuring going on here, and our QA department will be no longer in a few weeks. :<
We don't need no quality
Xeo
Xeo
I'm pretty unhappy with that.
the QA guy assigned to me is too friendly
he talks so much
I can see why he does good QA though
now if only he didn't want to be so friendly with me
ideally I'd like to be seen like some sort of entity that arrives to the office, writes code, then leaves home w/o talking to anyone >.>
> some sort of entity
lol
10:35
@rightfold they have there place.
lol @thecosh
3
Q: Editing policy for responses to Questions: should we allow the edit to change the response?

Roaring FishI am aware that we already have this question about editing OP posts, but I would like to raise a similar issue about editing answers to the OP. I recently had a response edited in this thread, where the edit was deleting the whole post except the first sentence. Naturally, I rolled it back. Thi...

Is it just me? This all seems quite bizarre.
I was very nice about it, too.
@AlexM. So, "a loser"? :)
@Jefffrey "there" makes total sense because he's talking about places.
Right?
Xeo
Xeo
Jefffrey fails at sarcasm.
Not true
Nein
10:39
@AlexM. You have your own QA guy?
Ho ho ho. 1 vote for and 1 vote against.
That's like having a butler
We just need 1 vote against and the proposal is down.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I wasn't aware people who were left alone were called losers
I want to be a loser then
@Mr.kbok technically, yeah, he's assigned to do QA on the stuff that my team works on
> In the US one, the central character wakes up in a rocket on Mars and finds it was all a dream while in suspended animation
That's how Life on Mars ends?
WTF
10:40
@R.MartinhoFernandes Are you waiting for my vote on Nomic or what?
No. Voting just started!
I haven't checked today yet.
Sorry
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's like the Lost ending
Ell
Ell
morning
Morning
Ell
Ell
10:45
work time
bye all
@R.MartinhoFernandes the UK version is far far superior
@R.MartinhoFernandes exactly.
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh thanks a lot, now I can't watch it!
I'm new to c++ and struggling with defaults in the parameters. If my function is
int DoConvert(int id, int id2 = 5, isToDo = false)
then I can call it with
DoConvert(id)
because the other params are set
If I want to pass ONE of the defaults, do I have to appease the entire signature
Can I do

DoConvert(id, true)
you have no need to appease anyone but the blood god
blood for the blood god
he he
Hmmmm
I see some code which does do this
Can I assume it's actually calling a different function (but with the same name)
10:53
Dave, why are you telling us this story about parameters?
It's a riveting story
The code base I'm looking at has a signature such as int DoThis(bool some, bool other = false, someAgain = true, int i = 5)
but, it appears as if the code which calls this is doing

DoThis(true, false, 6)
I coudln't work out if this is possible, and due to a fault on the machine, I currently can't debug it!
So, instead of making changes to the code, I thought I'd ask the elves of C++
:)
aha, I knew it was a drama!
ha ha ha, it would have been most uncomfortable if it turned into a romantic comedy
@Dave no, you have no function that takes int then bool
default parameter values can only be for the trailing paramaters.
OK. I knew this was true in C# but I'm struggling quite a bit in the move from C# into C++ ... I miss intellisense :(
Thank you @thecoshman
and thank you @AlexM.
10:57
just doin' my job
firstly, if you are using VS, you have intellisense. VS is not good. Learn the language rather than relying on a crutch. C#-> C++ is not that big a leap.
Well, I've read up on it, and I get the basics etc, but I need to work on it more. And the code base here is huge... I mean, a single CPP file can be 5k lines long :( (I know I know)
> and due to a fault on the machine
lol
Yes, clearcase is down
and I have a build which has faults
until clearcase is up, I can't update my view
lol clearcase
11:00
and so I can't build the with the correct build config!
sucks to be you, man
ha ha ha
I admit, I have not enjoyed ClearCase
lol clearcase
I use SVN for my personal web stuff (And another developer) and find it very easy, but, when there is only 2 of you, I guess source control is likely to be easy!
Hang on, is it NOT just me who hates clearcase???
Don't ever blame the machine until you reach your first year with C++ and you triple checked the standard vs what you get.
11:01
this is the first time I heard of clearcase
so I can't hate it
I guess that makes us 2
ClearCase is IBM and it's in Rational.
That's two reasons to hate it without even seeing it.
I heard about something called Rational Rose from IBM
used to draw diagrams
@Jefffrey, I've programmed enough to now know it's never been the machines fault, it's always the code's fault... written by me :(
ha ha
Well, the clearcase servers had to reboot at 10, and it will down for 30 minutes (assuming that everyone had checked in ). I just smile!
lol
lol clearcase
lol centralized software
I think these ^ sum this up pretty well.
:)
11:05
@Dave I know your pain guy
Oh really?
YOu have the same situation?
yeah, use it at work too
it's utter bollocks
Well, I think the same, but where I am (200 devs in this room), they are all fine with it
I think it's bad though we employ some one full time just to manage clearcase, provide training and fix when it goes wrong
I just think ClearCase hates certain people
and it picked me to hate!
and obviously yourself :)
A haters gonna hate!
I want to start using one of those things like jenkins to automate builds and unit tests
everyone in the company seems to use Go
so I thought about trying it out
I can't view Jenkins... sigh, IT have cocked up the internet, the browser can't view any HTTPS page (yes, you read right)
11:10
it seems it will take a while for me to get how it works though, ugh
@Dave man, your workplace sounds completely broken :D
ha ha ha
it's good though - the work is very hard which is fun... So, they took me on to knowing I didn't know C++ but I could learn it on job which is nice of htem (although they wanted me for C#/WPF/ASP.NET blah blah) but I really wanted to know C++ as it held a mystery
although, Google, Mozilla dev pages etc area problem
They had to manually put conditions in for SuperUser and StackOverflow sites
Any way, anyone followed the Rosetta comet mission?
I know it landed
but that's about it :D
it landed 3 times (it bounced some what :( )
I want to see us mining stuff in space
mining what?
the moon isn't made of cheese if you were hoping for a sandwich filler he he he
11:17
Asteroid mining refers to the possibility of exploiting raw materials from asteroids and other minor planets, including near-Earth objects. Minerals and volatiles could be mined from an asteroid or spent comet then taken back to Earth or used in space for construction materials. Materials that could be mined or extracted include iron, nickel, titanium for construction, water, and oxygen to sustain the lives of prospector-astronauts on site, as well as hydrogen and oxygen for use as rocket propellant. In space exploration, using resources gathered while on a journey is referred to as in-situ resource...
@Mr.kbok The Lost ending wasn't that bad
at least it had a nice emotional component to it. the idea that we'll all meet again some day no matter what our troubles and no matter what knocked us off the mortal coil
the idea that the relationships we forge with people can transcend our strife and struggle
That shoulds like it would expensive...
that's a lot better than "it was all a dream now fuck off"
@Dave anything has a cost
@Dave the question is if it's profitable
11:19
right now the answer is no
@LightnessRacesinOrbit my english sucks
man
and we're back to 'whether vs if' again
@orlp, yes, but you seem to be forgetting it's now a 20kg limit on commercial flights so you won't be able to get much through without being fined and having the embarssing 'heavy' orange sticker
This means, they'll have to increase the limit a bit I would guess
@Dave how is that even remotely related to asteroid mining?
11:22
They'll need to get it back to Earth at some point
that doesn't make it related
and waiting for it to come through on the baggage carousel ...
I assume they're not using the materials they collect in space, in space (meaining, they will send it back to Earth as opposed to manufcatring there and then!!)
just because the resources mined might at some point be transported in a volvo truck doesn't mean that the quality of volvo truck engines is related to asteroid mining
anyway @orlp I made this since you were wondering
I have a couple of todos but yeah
It has a cost. And if the engine is very expensive, it may not be profitable HE HE
11:25
I think having a capable transportation system in place is not only related to asteroid mining
@LightnessRacesinOrbit yeah, in retrospect LOST's ending wasn't bad, but there's a fair few who expected more resolution of everything else in the story. it kind of teased fans with too much lore for it to be resigned as just a macguffin for the character stories.
but also a precondition for it
it's all about the context
@Rapptz I'm unfamiliar with the Ninja build system
I've been using it for like, a while.
Not sure how long. I think 1.5-2 years.
Right, I'm off as my jokes about commercial airlines in context with mining in space seemed to be taken literally!!! Bye all, thanks again for the help as well
11:27
drop by again sometime
@Rapptz hmm, looking at it I don't really understand the problem it's supposed to solve
I'm just sick and tired of writing the same bootstrap.py nonsense.
nothing special
@Rapptz it works on a shell-level, right, invoking shell commands? it's only purpose is to parse the build file and find the optimal order and parallelism to execute the commands in?
@Rapptz I mean ninja, not your script
Oh ninja.
It's supposed to be faster than make.
because it's main merit seems to be speed
but I don't think that doing topological sorting is that slow it merits optimization
11:30
It was made because make was too slow for Chromium.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I love the way you just spoiled it for everyone in such a poetic manner.
@Rapptz > Build systems get slow when they need to make decisions.
that's their claim
I'm unsure of that
@orlp Outside of speed, the reason I prefer it is because it's easy to generate and they have a very convenient way of doing certain things like dependencies.
I've experienced with a lot of build systems in the past (nearly all the major ones in fact) and I still prefer ninja the most.
Having an easy to generate build system means that I can just use a python script (i.e. an entire programming language) to take care of a lot of things for me instead of the limitations that e.g. make have.
@Rapptz if you want to you could collaborate with me on deps after I'm done with my work on libop
@Rapptz the idea is that instead of making "Makefiles" you just call library functions, and your makefile is just a Python script
@Rapptz the goal is to first complete the core system of it that's language agnostic, then provide sane defaults for things like calling gcc with the right flags
the crucial difference between this and make is that this lives on a Python level rather than a shell level
@Jefffrey ikr
@TheForestAndTheTrees Indeed
@Rapptz You know where the "ignore" button is. I'm not going to bother getting into stupid arguments any more about what I do or do not write in this chat. Take it or leave it but don't start up flaming about it. Thanks.
11:41
Lighten up.
It was a joke.
@BartekBanachewicz: gotcha :P
A rather bad one though.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit pedant.
@BartekBanachewicz troll*
your comment was wrong, though :P
inb4 the op comes back and writes "but this is array i thought arrays pointers hlurb blurb"
"sir."
@LightnessRacesinOrbit IKR
11:46
sir arrays are pointers tho , my understnding is not correct ?( thank you)kindly help me with my doubt .
refer here
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Anyway, what have you been up to?
I don't really know how long you left for.
The new pair of Vans have arrived. Yay.
The old ones almost had holes.
I should probably buy some other color sometimes.
@Rapptz I'll let you know when I'll resume work on deps
Sure.
I don't think I'll be able to help though.
Like this
11:54
@Rapptz Oh not much
I won the lottery and moved to the Maldives but otherwise nothing to report
lol
Can I join you at Maldives?
It's the place where I'd like to die.
Or be scattered when ded.
The good thing about today is that it is indeed Friday!!!
I don't know what to eat for lunch
Xeo
Xeo
aaand Amazon is now throwing 60eur at me for getting their credit card
@TonyTheLion yesh
Friday all day, erry weekday plx
@Xeo :)
@Xeo oh you got a credit then eh
Xeo
Xeo
11:58
@TonyTheLion naw, not theirs
I got a prepaid one
But if I got the Amazon one, they'd give me 60eur.
@Jefffrey Sure, if you'd like to come here, I'll happily kill you.
@Xeo oh I see
Xeo
Xeo
I wonder how high that goes - it started at 30eur
and got higher over time, in 10eur increments
they're just trying to lure you into getting their card
Xeo
Xeo
ye
11:59
which probably has a very high APR
Xeo
Xeo
@TonyTheLion APR?
@Jefffrey oh you

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