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user1646075
09:03
@TemplateRex for integer, not even then. FP different maybe
@TonyTheLion ... refreshed?
Anne bought a new garbage bin for the kitchen. It's stainless steel, fits nicely in the gap available for it, take standard-size bin-bags ...and is unfit for purpose. Once full of garbage, the liner sticks to the walls to make a good gas-tight seal.

Result: pulling out the liner-full of rubbish requires pulling upwards to overcome the weight of rubbish plus almost full atmospheric pressure, ie a force of about 3 tonnes of equivalent weight. Outcome - back injury and/or bag explodes at the bottom.
@MartinJames WD40 future bags?
@thecoshman ah yes, good now
@dawmail333 A pipe from top to bottom, to let air in, would do.
user1646075
09:10
@dawmail333 that would only make the seal better
@MartinJames I guess this would be the perfect time to trademark "Bin Snorkels"
@dawmail333 Awesome idea!
@aclarke oops
@MartinJames ¬_¬ worse yet, they soon stop looking so shiny, yet you are stuck with such a devilish design.
@MartinJames I've been meaning to attack the bottom of our bin for a while, but you know how these things go.
"Bin Snorkels, so your bin is more aerated than Bin Laden"
That was rubbish. I'll show myself out.
09:14
Hmm.. plastic pipe with a clip, to go smoothly into a corner, and shaped so as not to rip the bag or leave other sharps... I like'Bin Snorkel' ;)
user1646075
Has Anne considered wiggling the bag to progressively introduce wrinkles and air down the sides? or is she like a monkey trying to grab grapes from a jar?
you assume that Anne is the one emptying the aforementioned bin.
user1646075
@Puppy ok, Has Anne's minion ....
@Puppy Actually, Anne does normally empty it. I'm quite tall and so its even more excruciatingly painful for me to do it:(
user1646075
@MartinJames Oh, Anne is your significant other? /awkward....
user1646075
09:17
i assumed quotes around your ... quote
@aclarke Wife:(
@aclarke I will, of course, be forwarding 'monkey trying to grab grapes from a jar'.
user1646075
@MartinJames heh - for reference, the experiment was to use a jar with a smaller mouth than the body. A monkey will put it's hand in, make a fist around the grapes, and cannot get it's hand out. The monkey is puzzled. The higher apes will do the same, let go of the grapes, get hand out, tip the grapes out of the jar. See also yesterday's discussion of intelligence ;-)
user1804599
> The monoid of endomorphisms under composition.
user1804599
Just call it "functions" dammit.
user1646075
make a small hole at the bottom and blow ... ewww can't complete the suggestion
09:20
@rightføld Have you been talking to business lecturers again?
@aclarke Orite - like a West Ham fan trying to get a pickled egg out of the jar in the pub. Got it.
user1804599
What is a business lecturer and how can I do such again "again?"
@MartinJames lol
user1646075
hah! that must be the equivalent of a Canterbury-Bankstown fan then.
@rightføld I was going to describe them as people, but then I decided not to be a liar.
09:23
@aclarke Not really familiar with that species, but I'm prepared to believe you:)
user1646075
@MartinJames Their mascot is the Bulldog, which is kinda unfair to most bulldogs because the one's I've met drool less than a C/B fan.
@aclarke lol
@aclarke The drool is not quite as bad as spit bubbles.
@SharathKShetty That makes zero sense. If ownership is to be shared, use shared_ptr or even a raw pointer (dynamic_cast<B*>(p.get())). Creating a two different smart pointers to the same object is always a bad design smell and asking for trouble. unique_ptris precisely about transferring ownership. If you dont require it, use something else. — sehe 43 secs ago
> O(N/log log N)
When Smart Pointers Outsmart Their Devs
09:32
Can you guys picture this complexity?
inb4 wolfram
user1646075
TIL - 6 foods you're eating wrong.
user1646075
@sehe sometimes, it doesn't take much to do that :)
@aclarke Viewwhoring crap.
user1646075
but i learned
user1646075
09:35
i don't normally do teh toobs
@SharathKShetty Short answer: no. unique_ptr implies ownership. Weak pointers require observation logic that implies locking and refcounting. That comes at a price, which is why you need to use shared_ptr if you're so inclined. The good news is you can use std::dynamic_pointer_cast<> with that too (and weak_ptr). Everybody wins. — sehe 5 secs ago
@AlexK Feel free to Accept the answer if you like it. :) — unwind 31 mins ago
^ 190k user.
also I enjoyed the comment above it with <br>
Weak pointers aren’t even pointers :v
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Uh ... Not sure what to say. I think it's confusing to get praise but not the accept. — unwind 11 secs ago
whattttt
indeedy
09:39
Damn strike.
@AntonGolov Uhm. Of course! Fixed — sehe 1 min ago
that reminds me
I need to refactor the ownership of the Wide AST.
@jalf You were right ^
at some point.
user1646075
@LightnessRacesinOrbit the dd answer is the best there. Also a bit of modest prepared-earlier maths on the params can often make it a million times faster...
09:41
@aclarke It's almost the best answer, except it's in the wrong language unfortunately
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Grumpy about getting up / leaving so early? :P
user1646075
@LightnessRacesinOrbit sometimes stepping out of the box is good. use system() ?-!
No. Grumpy about the packed to hell and back train.
@aclarke That's a joke, right?
Stepping out of the box in problem solving is great, but SO is not a help site and that question is marked / (soon to be just one of them, I hope) so the answer should be C or C++ (soon to be just one of them, I hope).
user1646075
probably. Haven't looked in detail about the OP's context... but it soudns like they want to make a singular program to do the job...
Xeo
Xeo
09:43
@R.MartinhoFernandes ah
my condolences
Ideally, to reach the dd conclusion, the OP would read that comment and go "oh, interesting", then post a new question tagged , to which that command would be the answer. Unfortunately everybody in the world other than me is a moron.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit So the answer has a 50% of being in the correct language.
user1646075
best answer is to pick the correct hammer
Of course everyone is taking the last train before the strike.
Xeo
Xeo
09:44
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, so did you.
What strike?
@aclarke It fucks me off when I'm looking for information on doing X in Y, and all the answers are "no, do this in Z instead".
Train strike in Germany.
Maybe I have some valid reason to do what I'm doing (a system call to dd sounds fugly and if I can do it within some larger application and optimise for the needs of that application then so much the better) and those answers are immediately worthless to me
Despite the tag being the language I searched for
09:45
Not what SO is for
fdhgfdsfgs
I didn't know "strike" could also mean that. I thought you mean that someone was going to strike the train station with bombs or whatever.
Gee system call to dd is just horrible.
user1646075
that may be so, and I've experienced that shit too, but sometimes people don't know that they're asking the wrong question until they're told.
arrived at work, kinda decided to take the elevator 7 floors, didn't feel like climbing the stairs
saw the maintenance guy trying to unblock one of them
NOPE.JPG
Listen, I'm very OK with women in tech, but "Watch out for requirements, such as “real name” policies," is plain BS and hypocrisy.
I asked Bartek to explain this
09:46
The "strike" in "The empire strikes back" kind of thing.
he told me to "look on Twitter"
thanks, guy.
Twitter is really small and easy to find specific messages on without any link or username or timestamp to go by
Twitter is also great at discussions.
</sarcasm><sarcasm>
Bartek's policy is that showing your real name online isn't a big deal.
So he's against people saying to "watch out" for doing that.
I use my real name online everywhere
@Sofffia dat order
09:47
ok but I'm wondering where he's seen it in this instance and how it relates to women in tech
I don't know.
Maybe he read an article and it advised women not to give out their real name.
@sehe it's just a quick break in the endless sarcasm that is life
like, are the fembots going around claiming that having to use their real name is unfair due to risk of discrimination, or something?
@Rapptz he's implied with his response that there's a discussion on twitter about it rather than an article
I see.
but neglected to point out precisely where on twitter
09:48
Everyone on twitter is a fucktard so I can't say I care.
3
:p
btw women don't get discriminated in tech in the UK :)
@Rapptz :D
Twitter is indeed the lovechild of Scale and YouTube Comments
@LightnessRacesinOrbit is hobbies seem to include saying half sentences that don't really make a point. He's like a ---human-- polish link bait.
I don't work in tech but they're not discriminated in medicine either.
@Rapptz Congrats on upgrading from your usual "retard" placeholder
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I suspect pay isn't perfectly equal. But I don'tknow.
09:49
(f(args), ...) looks so cool
@sehe I tried.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit They're not in tech?
@Abyx what? context?
Xeo
Xeo
2 hours ago, by TemplateRex
http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2014/n4191.html
yeah that ^
@sehe You made me curious. 15 times.
09:50
Oh boi
The guy complains because people say "guys" instead of "people".
@thecoshman That is illegal in the US.
and probably everywhere sane.
@Sofffia I can only conclude that people who do that have too much spare time on their hands
@Rapptz illegal != it never happens.
or a very relaxed mind
@thecoshman lmao
No you're right.
09:52
From now on I shall greet everybody with "ladies" or "gals", so that I shall discriminate every men for good.
That will show them.
well, in C++ we counting people using 'it' (iterator), there is no she or he ... just it
A company would rather fuck itself over with a lawsuit to go out of their way to discriminate someone based on gender.
@Rapptz it never happens != it always happens.
Xeo
Xeo
They could just make up some other reason that that specific person isn't paid as much vOv
@chmod711telkitty The concept of this joke was nice, but the execution... meh.
I'm sorry.
09:54
@Rapptz I doubt many places are actively paying less to women just because. I suspect its more that women are less likely to get the job offer in the first place, or to get promotions and payrises.
@Rapptz I'm surprised you don't even know that you do it. Here's ~200 other times, if you care
You know how you can hide your real name? By don't showing your real name. hth
@sehe 169!
Oops 4x50 = ~200. Still. Not really the point. I was relieved you extended the repertoire
@sehe 100!
09:56
@sehe Why not look for these as well?
> Many women don’t notice or mind this, but to some in our male-dominated field it can be a tiny, pointed reminder of the extra work they have to do just to fit in, be seen, be taken seriously.
It's fun.
I smell feminism. Does anyone smell feminism? Gimme that deodorant.
@Rapptz lol, nearly 10% man
10% of what?
user1646075
09:57
@Sofffia I make a point of saying "Goodnight Gentlemen" and "Goodnight Ladies" on alternative 5PMs
@Rapptz I dunno. Do I look like I'm retarded bored?
@Sofffia you smell like feminism.
Maybe.
@Rapptz ... oh the total uses in the room
do you guys use bold and italic stuff in your themes/color schemes/whatever?
09:59
Yes.
Yes.
Comments.
@Rapptz ... flag all the things?
I went through monokais and derivatives for vim and all of them seem to use bold and italic text
it felt alien for some reason O_o
so I removed all styling
looks fine to me
let me check if other editors I use also have styling
10:00
Also bold for what's inside ** and ** in murkdown files and italic in italic "tags".
Also underlined text within <a> tags in HTML files.
And bold within <hn> tags
visual studio doesn't apply styling so maybe that's why it seemed weird
I use VS most of the time
@Sofffia my biggest annoyance was the fact that this thing applied bold & italic to all comments
and bold for @todo in comments
@AlexM. meh
and preproc directives, those were bolded too
and I think typenames too, huh
@AlexM. Italics is normal I think
user1646075
no comic sans serif? is that falling out of fashion now?
user1804599
10:05
Comic Serif
wait
yeah, mine too
@TonyTheLion vOv you know there's an easy fix :P
it applies bold for typenames, primitive types, for, if and other keyword arguments
never thought about it
doesn't seem italics to me
auto is though
user1646075
colorizing is for people who can't recognize keywords. poor bastards
10:07
ok, my theme is the most plain looking here then
even if you recognise keywords syntax highlighting helps a lot
lol
non-syntax-highlight savage
user1646075
@Rapptz I confess to grudgingly getting used to it recently; can't say why I decided to persist with it about a year ago. I had to get the weaker colours cleaned up though.
awful
user1646075
10:09
@AlexM. see, that discriminates against the colour blind
dunno, I like it
eww
that font is horrible
wait, you guys were commenting on the font?
user1646075
10:09
@AlexM. then you know you have no trouble with red.
the entire thing is bad
I use a similar red
Oh nvm, they're both the same. #F92672
except my font rendering makes it look weirder (i.e. nicer)
user1646075
I want sparkly letters
user1646075
new lines of code should look .... shinier
you want sparkly bjarne
user1646075
@Sofffia is that a stab at his balding pate?
user1804599
10:12
@AlexM. what font is that? I like it.
I use my real name online but not because I think real name policies are good.
user1804599
Though I don't think I can get IntelliJ to not anti-alias.
I'll actually avoid it in that case.
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes i thought it appropriate for SO, vs most places I haunt for the lulz. Using the same thing in chat is a tinge borderline.
@rightføld no clue
10:14
I totally disagree
it's the molokai theme for vim with bold and italic replaced with none
user1646075
oh VERY nice.
oh gawd
not again
user1804599
Monokai is terrible, but I like the font.
10:15
@R.MartinhoFernandes Is it because your name goes along the line of ‘John Smith’?
I always do my best to obscure every bit of personal data I can
@Sofffia ಠ_ಠ
@aclarke it's an old JIF
That's not Monokai
AFAIK the only allowed JIF in this room
10:15
Python is more colorful
user1804599
w/e it's dark so it's shit
2
RACIST
@AlexM. lol that's not very colourful.
user1804599
Solarized Light ftw.
10:16
it's more colorful
not very colorful
user1804599
I'd use dark if I didn't do webdev.
user1804599
But web pages happen to be light so the contrast would be too high for a dark editor theme.
@Abyx nice indeed. Although f(args)... is pretty clear to me too. I guess f(args) + ... is where the awesome starts
I think themes in Vim change the color of predefined keywords only
user1646075
@Sofffia hah - because lounge<C++>::God("bjarne")
10:17
Solarized Dark is better
so user-defined types are not highlighted automatically
@sehe yeah, it could be f(args)...; but they also wanted folding
Surely they can''t break the old style expansion
however I don't really see when you'd want to fold tuples
user1804599
@AlexM. where did you get that from?
10:18
@AlexM. Themes determine palette, the highlighting is governed by the syntax definition
@Abyx All the time, actually.
2 hours ago, by Luc Danton
@Rapptz That would be still reserved for comma-as-a-separator. So not valid in a statement.
@rightføld I think I wrote it
I wanted to see if some object = function works
user1804599
Can you make the font size larger so I can use WhatTheFont!?
coolest syntax highlighting!
10:19
@LucDanton Ah. Subtle. But kina obvious
Ye, it’s neat.
user1804599
@Rapptz PhpStorm highlights SQL in strings. It's pretty nice.
Yeah. Because we need to encourage more SQL injection in PHP
@sehe I don't really see a case for folding different types with a math operator
user1804599
SQL in strings and SQL injection are completely different things.
10:20
@Abyx It'd be better if we had int... x etc
except << for printing
user1804599
You can also do SQL injection of you load SQL from a separate file or if you generate SQL.
@rightføld it's Fixedsys
user1804599
Thanks.
I wanted to make a proposal for it but it's a breaking change
Xeo
Xeo
10:22
There's one problem I see with the "folding expressions" thing - people will want to overload operators even more now, is my feeling.
user1804599
> emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy "fixedsys".
@Xeo what?
And you would rather have woop(pack...)?
how do you gather?
10:24
so many terminals...
Xeo
Xeo
Actually, hm.
@SharathKShetty I don't see how that's a twist. It's just doing what you want to do. Without needless complications. I've added it to my answer, just to be complete. — sehe 15 secs ago
Gah. Why do people complicate things
Now just dereferencing a smart pointer is somehow "an interesting twist" to someone else's needlessly complicated pointer-juggling. Go figure
ugh. boss sets conference call to discuss some feature. i assume he has questions or some reason. no he just wants to hammer out requirements. but the requirements are clear from an existing document. so it turns out we have the meeting because he doesn't get it, but now we all look dumb and stupid for the appearance that nobody in the entire software team could read a document. "ok do we have enough to go on now?" grr
10:29
For starters, if you're going to talk to candidates like this, they won't take you seriously. Amazing in IT, amazing in business, amazing in law, amazing recomemndation letter - trust me, it's not your age that causes others to not take you seriously. — MSalters 14 hours ago
@thecoshman I bet it pretty much is
Xeo
Xeo
37 minutes and an answer is accepted. Granted, patience isn't a common thing among either 20 year olds or CEOs, but you might want to compare a few more answers. — MSalters 13 hours ago
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ¬_¬ ergh... I hate that shit.
Xeo
Xeo
haha
@Xeo I thought that was unwarranted.
Xeo
Xeo
10:39
I guess my feeling was rather unfounded, since those overloaded operators would (hopefully) be in a detail namespace for implementation help /cc @Rapptz @LucDanton
@TwilightSparkle: Pretending that there is no difference between young people and older people is absurd. — Lightness Races in Orbit 7 mins ago
There was no implication of this.
@Xeo I don’t get it. Where does the proposal come into play?
Xeo
Xeo
@LucDanton chain
Go on.
Xeo
Xeo
(the commented out stuff is what it would look like with the proposal)
Well, much nicer with the automatic folding for composition, rather than doing it by hand
I was just thinking that people would resort to overloading operators for that purose only
though it's not important if those operators are in detail namespaces.
10:43
I still don’t think it’s a problem, namespace/visibility or not.
Xeo
Xeo
oh well
why would you overload an operator when you could just use a function instead and the comma operator?
Xeo
Xeo
that's... something different?
@Xeo E.g. range proposals tend to insist on showcasing | chains, which result in a<b<c<X, Y>, Z>, W> types already.
@Xeo Is it?
Oh wait yeah.
Binary vs Unary.
Xeo
Xeo
10:45
the folding expression with (unoverloaded) comma operator is a special case, IMHO, since it's a fold over const basically - the RHS has no dependence on the LHS
@Rapptz wut?
ah, I see what you mean
@Xeo Let’s not ignore the effects.
I sneezed
Xeo
Xeo
@LucDanton right, I guess the RHS could have an indirect dependence thanks to that.
but no direct dependence.
@Xeo Can't be because ADL can't find them there based on a lambda, which has no associated ADL namespaces.
Xeo
Xeo
@Puppy I forgot a using namespace detail; in chain.
(or using detail::operator->*;)
10:48
don't really see how that's different to just declaring them globally in the first place.
having such an unconstrained global operator would be problematic, I feel
@Xeo You can.
Xeo
Xeo
@LucDanton ?
Note that I said "unoverloaded comma operator".
What difference does it make?
Xeo
Xeo
How can the RHS directly depend (i.e., through arguments) on the LHS with an unoverloaded comma operator?
argh, my brain is mush. meh.
whatever, just ignore me
10:52
Where's the standard wording describing reference collapse?
or whatever it's called
@Rapptz No? It sounded to me very strongly like the guy was "defending the youth" from the onslaught of naughty MSalters bringing up the OP's age "for no reason", when in fact there was a clearly valid reason for age to be relevant. How did you interpret TwighlightSparkle's comment?
definitely not like you did
That's not an answer.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I think it's [temp.deduct.call]/3
We've established that you interpreted it differently. I'm asking for your interpretation.
(or somewhere near that)
10:54
@AndyProwl Nah, sorry, I wasn't clear
@LightnessRacesinOrbit "While I agree with what you said, is it necessary to bring up the guy's age and demeaning him for it?"
I'm talking about how naming a where a is an int& or an int&& results in an "lvalue int" expression.
@Rapptz That's not an interpretation. That's a near-verbatim quote.
What do you think his problem was with the invocation of the OP's age? And with the identification of potential related failings?
I honestly just don't see how you're interpreting it that way other than a friendly tap on the shoulder saying "there's no need to bring this up"
lightness
@LightnessRacesinOrbit the part which says that identifier expressions are always lvalues? I don't think the type of a makes any difference for that matter (int vs int& vs int&&)
it's going to be an lvalue anyway
10:56
And I'm saying that it is clearly relevant. I've asked you twice now to explain why you think it's not, and you've decided to ignore that request both times.
I think we can agree to not have a clue what each other is talking about, here :)
Because I interpreted it literally, as-is with no ambiguity.
what
Sorry but that... makes no sense at all.
Okay.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit He interpreted it literally, as-is with no ambiguity.
10:57
The comment author clearly had a motivation in thinking that bringing up the guy's age was not needed. MSalters clearly thinks otherwise.
Pretending that there was no intended meaning or implication in either comment is just silly
@AndyProwl mmm yeah that'd do
@LightnessRacesinOrbit [expr.prim.general]/8 then
To me it seems like MSalter is just being rude.
> [C++11: 5/5]: If an expression initially has the type “reference to T” (8.3.2, 8.5.3), the type is adjusted to T prior to any further analysis. The expression designates the object or function denoted by the reference, and the expression is an lvalue or an xvalue, depending on the expression.
Got it
So whatever.
ah, ok I see what you mean now
10:59
This actually reminds me of another question on programmers.se

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