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00:00
@CatPlusPlus quit school. I hear all the cool kids are doing it these days.
I liked Horsebot 3000!
@CatPlusPlus but then, you aspire to be a robot, after all
Now admit, who gets the reference.
Oh my, a Django tutorial that tells people to use development server on production.
Why, why are you writing tutorials, whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.
Turns out
The error was coming from the fact that part of my listener thought that ALL packets had a size property
When they don't
Still doesn't explain why the local client wasn't breaking
@KianMayne murphy's law
00:09
Thanks guys :\
No problem.
I would like to understand how my answer was much worse than XIVSolutions
Encapsulation has nothing to do with the issue.
Then, what is the issue?
I mean, I'll delete it. But do please school me and explain why you don't work for Oracle
Because Oracle is evil.
00:15
And part 1?
If I knew, I'd answer the question. The designers wanted single hierarchy root, that's about it.
Also they needed it for collections, because for longest time, Java had no generics.
That syntax looks ugly. Luckily, the new diamond operator cleans it up -slightly- but I think it's just going to end up as a source of confusion
I learned PHP and I'd like to start with something harder...
Java in its entirety is ugly, syntax is the least of its issues.
00:18
Would you suggest me to start with C or something else first?
@JeffPigarelli Forget about PHP and learn Python, it's easier and saner.
Oh I see, you don't like Java
@0x90 What's the diamond operator?
Who does like Java?
@CatPlusPlus: You're the boost.variant fan?
00:19
It's a "I need to get money/do assignment badly" language.
@CatPlusPlus Outcasts.
@KerrekSB Yes.
@CatPlusPlus Python? None ever suggested me python before. Why's that?
Don't worry, I think there's only one language I really don't hate. And it's not C++.
I tried to understand its interna, but it's full of boost.mpl stuff.
00:20
@RMartinhoFernandes Haskell? :P
@RMartinhoFernandes It was introduced in Java 7 earlier this year. It's a little half-assed in my opinion. It takes the generic type definition from the left and essentially copies it to the right. So something like SomeClass<Integer> x = new SomeClass<>();
Does it figure out the maximum size of all types, and the maximum alignment?
@CatPlusPlus Of course!
@KerrekSB I have no idea how it's implemented.
Then allocate that much, and just construct and destroy in place?
00:20
And really, I don't care.
@CatPlusPlus Oh. Shame! :-)
Its interface hides all the details.
They probably have some references in the docs.
Does it convert values, too, or is it just like a union?
It's a tagged union.
@KerrekSB Like a union.
00:21
@RMartinhoFernandes The example they cited was something like: SomeClass<String, HashMap<Integer, String>> x = new SomeClass<>();
I don't know how it handles the alignment part, but in C++11 it's really easy :)
Java has primitive almost primitive type inference?
So you can't to int i = myvariant.as<int>()?
@0x90 Ah, I see, it's some rudimentary type inference.
00:21
WELL I NEVER.
Just a question: PHP has HTML as the default (we can say) markup language. What's the "default" markup/visual language for C++ software?
@KerrekSB Only if the type stored is int.
@RMartinhoFernandes There's no C++11 in Boost.variant as far as I can tell
@KerrekSB If the variant can hold ints, and it is actually holding an int.
@CatPlusPlus So no implicit lexical cast if the active type is a string?
00:22
@JeffPigarelli None. PHP does things the silly way.
Really, just forget about it.
It's a terrible platform, terrible language and terrible community.
5
@CatPlusPlus I suppose. It's for Java Generics, really. The java compiler knows what type you made on the left, so why force you to type it out on the right?
Ok, but it's the most used for web application
@CatPlusPlus Star for that
@0x90 But it should be much more powerful!
@RMartinhoFernandes baby steps
00:23
and I love it... but maybe it's just all about the first love thing...
(I don't seem to be able to star.)
@JeffPigarelli There are way saner ways to build webapps.
@0x90 And that's exactly why I don't enjoy Java. It gets stuck in the past forever.
See Python and Django.
@CatPlusPlus Like Java Servlets?!? Hahah
00:24
Or Ruby and something they use.
@KerrekSB Used up your daily allowance?
@RMartinhoFernandes The day just started!
Can the post owner object to a star?
Hell, writing webapps in Haskell is a better idea than using PHP.
I kinda accept it. But starting with PHP i really cannot understand how C++ applications works. I mean... it's not all that clear. How do I manage visual things? What language can I use?
00:24
@KerrekSB Room owners can cancel stars, but that's about it.
And it's all the stars in a certain post, not stars by some user.
I didn't touch any stars. Someone else broke it.
@JeffPigarelli Why do you need visual things? We have a wonderful file-based input/output system...
(Once more to the stars.)
(There. Now it sticks.)
@CatPlusPlus I think your issue with PHP is that it's so easy there are many new people using it who do not produce good, clean code.
My issue with PHP is PHP.
The PHP community seems to be write-only and everything has to be an array.
00:26
Post Traumatic Stress.
If I have to build a program I obliviously cannot give a terminal-based program to the user... can I?
@JeffPigarelli It depends on your user!
OMG, how old are you? (no offense, I'm really curious)
GUI in C++ is not really a trivial matter.
"Can't give a terminal based program." Kids these days.
00:27
Also Qt.
@CatPlusPlus Now in Java.... that is different
I hate Swing with passion.
@CatPlusPlus So use AWT.
00:28
Yeah, because AWT is better.
@0x90 I thought AWT was loathed even among Java users.
And SWT is just plain weird and unusable.
It's just another tool.
Well, okay, so it's not that different from AWT and Swing.
@CatPlusPlus I love design things before programming it. For a website I always start from the layout and then built the application... If I want to start with C++ I'd better choose my GUI before...
00:29
I don't like that approach, really.
You focus on eye-candy and then you get software that works like HP printer drivers.
@JeffPigarelli just starting out, you will not likely be building a GUI application. C++ programs are normally written to be very fast
@CatPlusPlus Oh noes, don't talk about that!
@JeffPigarelli Use Qt.
But you'll have to learn C++ first. Really.
I'm sorry, I can't process that.
00:30
We're talking about moving from PHP to C++
This is not a trivial step
You don't want to start building applications in C++. You want to learn C++ before you do that.
Step 1 is to forget everything you know about PHP.
Then it's not that hard.
It helps to learn a simpler, real language first.
I recommend Python (or, ahem, ... Java... hmm)
@CatPlusPlus I find you hate for PHP kinda disturbing. PHP has OOP and other stuff that are very similar to C++... what's the matter? Seriously?
Because, sorry, calling PHP a real language is offense to everyone who actually designed a language.
00:32
@JeffPigarelli It's an uphill battle from here
@JeffPigarelli Whoever told you that is your enemy.
PHP and C++ are not at all similar.
Not at all. Their syntax looks almost possibly maybe similar
in the way that almost all languages are similar
Syntax is what matters the least in a language.
They happen to share some syntax and some small OOP roots, but they're very different.
Listen to the wisdom of the ancients — PHP is not good.
00:33
You define constants, variable, functions, classes, methods, interfaces, abstract classes... everything like C++ (as far as I can tell from some articles on the web)...
@CatPlusPlus Ancients? You're as old as he is!
Shush.
I know more languages.
@JeffPigarelli No, really, learn C++. It's not similar.
The resemblance is very vague.
$var = 'value'; is like string var = 'value'; in C++... (or something like that)...
00:35
@JeffPigarelli It's different in how it is executed, stored, &c..
Ah... ok
@JeffPigarelli Wow, you found a similar statement.
Invalid syntax, but nevermind.
They look similar but there are other things going on
C++ has value semantics, PHP has... well, I have no idea what PHP has, but it's not like C++.
Also PHP variables have no types.
00:36
That's one big difference.
Only values do, and barely at that.
Ok, I was wrong. I just took a look at C++ syntax and it's pretty different...
Syntax doesn't matter.
In any case, if you're interested, learn from a good source. The Internet is plagued with crappy C++ tutorials, and crappy C++ books.
739
Q: The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List

grepsedawkUnlike many other programming languages, which are often picked up on the go from tutorials found on the Internet, few are able to quickly pick up C++ without studying a good C++ book. It is way too big and complex for doing this. In fact, it is so big and complex, that there are many bad C++ boo...

Well the variables have types, but they are changed as you run. It is not your problem
00:37
Variables don't have types. Variables are only names attached to typed values.
Barely typed.
That is what I mean
"Bare typing" sounds naughty.
@RMartinhoFernandes The Internet is plagued with crappy X tutorials.
Forall X.
Ok, that makes sense. But it's much more pronounced for C++.
C++ has a notorious lack of good tutorials.
For PHP, too.
00:39
@RMartinhoFernandes Not just tutorials. Courses, teachers...
At least it has good books.
But they're not advertised enough.
Clearly the C++ community sucks... //sarcasm
Learning C++ is like crossing a minefield.
Doing C++ is like crossing a minefield.
00:41
No, doing C++ is like dancing on minefield.
While holding a grenade.
Ok, enough with the minefield comparisons.
Hey, you started it.
C++ is terrible. We all know that.
I'm fairly sure you guys have issues.
00:41
What issues?
Mother issues.
2
Well, apart from obvious insanity.
@RMartinhoFernandes but it's the fun type of terrible. Like a one-legged hooker.
And depression in some parts.
I'm the least sane of them all.
00:42
AHahaha. You wish.
Come on, don't take that away from me.
@keithlayne Err, I'm not sure I find a one-legged hooker fun, but I get your drift :)
@RMartinhoFernandes I was reaching. Too much?
She shouldn't have danced on a minefield.
touche
Oh, sleep issues, too.
The interesting thing is, I get the feeling that those who are the most critical of C++ are C++ programmers. Can't say that of Java, however.
@keithlayne No, that's fine. You'll have to excuse my weak sarcasmeter sometimes :(
It's easy. Assume sarcasm.
Especially here.
00:45
I DID IT! I finally squashed that evasive bug
Now clean up.
Did you use your boot?
It turns out the reason it didn't bug out locally is because it was quicker (as in the actual execution, and hence exception throwing happened faster)
Bootstrapping bugs.
Oh. That kind of bug.
00:46
I used my metaphorical boot made of a VC# express debugger and mind
A bug? In C#?
I mean, you got a full stack trace and everything!
(Ok, I'm (partially) joking)
So it was so quick, you had to use express debugger.
Got a point there.
:) You guys
00:48
:L
Or sometimes ladies.
Ladies? Where?
Very sometimes.
Like, once a quarter.
"Very sometimes"?
WTF.
Well, I guess there's @Xeo.
00:49
And you, Cat.
I'm most definitely not a lady.
C program that I typed in a hurry. Please tell me why this is not working ? pastebin.com/Tmu0nsvY
Because you typed it in a hurry.
2
00:50
lol
There, Cat nailed it :)
Opened it, saw conio.h, closed it.
cmon guys please tell me , i hav an exam in 1 hour
and i havnt slept so i cant think properly
You're loading ints into array of chars.
You're using %d and char.
%d is for ints.
cpx
cpx
00:51
@Failed_Noob seems like you're using a very old compiler.
@cpx yes, turbo c
I was going to say DJGPP.
@CatPlusPlus, R.Martinho Thank you
Damn it, GCC is free and pretty good, why are there still people with outdated compilers?
Who used DJGPP? :P
@RMartinhoFernandes What is it?
> "Someone was able to convince management that our software system needed a massive rewrite," notes Bob, "so, management commissioned the Next Generation project. After two years, it's turned into an over-architected abomination with over 1700 classes, and still growing. It is only half-functional so far, but it's in production and is replacing an easy-to-support legacy system which had around 100 classes."
@CatPlusPlus I did!
Should I be happy or sad?
I don't know. It's better than Turbo C, at least.
@RMartinhoFernandes This is the kind of stuff you'll see regularly on the Daily WTF.
00:54
@KianMayne A diagram of class dependencies.
@EtiennedeMartel Nailed it. I was quoting from TDWTF.
Looks like Hello World in J2EE.
i m using Turbo c/c++ becaz the computers in my college use it
@Failed_Noob India?
cpx
cpx
really?
00:55
That old chestnut.
But... the new Turbo C++, right?
lol
yes @ cat
Not the 20 years old DOS one?
Someone should go and spread the word that there is indeed a modern, free and insanely powerful compiler suite out there...
dont really know abt that, but it says emulated version of turbo c++ 3.0
00:56
@KerrekSB Clang!
@RMartinhoFernandes Damn right.
@KerrekSB Which one?
No, wait. Insanely powerful? Must be GCC.
GCC is like a ghoul. Some parts of it rotted away completely years ago, but it just keeps on going.
00:57
but i like dev c/c++ though
@CatPlusPlus That's a zombie.
A ghoul eats human flesh.
I seriously hope GCC doesn't do that.
@Failed_Noob Dev C++? The IDE? Man, that's also old as heck.
@CatPlusPlus The C++ part is good, though.
Oh, wait, modern zombies eat human flesh too.
Dammit.
I don't know, I was thinking more of Fallout ghouls.
00:58
One day, clang will crush GCC.
huh, then which one do u suggest ?
Code::Blocks.
@EtiennedeMartel Not that it'll be hard to do.
@RMartinhoFernandes This.
has a list of fine alternatives.
00:59
vim.
vim's learning curve is steeper than a cliff.
No, that's Dwarf Fortress.
@EtiennedeMartel And?
@EtiennedeMartel Not sure. Clang aims at fast compile speeds. They'll probably never go to the same depths of optimization as GCC does.
@CatPlusPlus See, I would suggest that, but I don't want people to just freak out and go back to Dev-C++ anyway.
01:00
@KerrekSB Give them time.
behave mswin, source mswin.vim, set insert (or whatever it was called) and it feels like Notepad.
I'm going to bed
I think this sleep is well deserved
@CatPlusPlus set insert? Sacrilege!
It's a good start.
@RMartinhoFernandes That's what I meant. You do not show vim to a noob if you want him to actually start coding.
01:01
@CatPlusPlus I would never suggest that to anyone.
vim tutorials are too drastic in suggesting complete paradigm shift.
I think Bram should kill that "feature".
It took me about 4 attempts over 2 years to actually start using vim, dammit.
okay guys i will meet u all after my exam , thanks for u support
@Failed_Noob Good luck.
@CatPlusPlus Because you're a cat.
01:02
And I like to think of myself as skilled.
Somewhat.
A bit.
Thank You ^_^
Do I look like I'm writing Perl? Geez.
Ah, found it!
This is DF's learning curve.
StarCraft's curve should be much steeper than that.
@EtiennedeMartel It's a log scale.
01:04
Y axis is on logarithmic scale.
Heh.
My ass was handed to me.
I've used bigger words.
@CatPlusPlus My words were logarithmic!
Oh, I was learning something 2 hours ago.
I just rememberd.
Now I have to start from the beginning.
I blame Java.
Always blame Java.
Except when it's really Java's fault.
Then blame C++.
On that class diagram, it looks like there are black holes.
Singletons.
01:08
@CatPlusPlus "I don't know, therefore singletons."
6
I think, therefore bananas.
Oh, hey, it's 1-0 Naniwa at MLG.
I should have used that for that question, that Object in Java is a super-massive-class-diagram-black-hole.
(| think |)
@EtiennedeMartel That makes no sense to me.
It's Starcraft, probably.
01:09
SC2, actually.
Same difference.
MLG Providence is going on right now. It's the grand finals.
I think we can ease the learning curve for @JeffPigarelli...just use webkit for all his UI needs. Can't fail, right?
I never understood what's so fun in watching stuff like that.
Or IRL sports.
@keithlayne Can't fail, because it'll be compiling until he dies of old age.
I "watch" football. I mean, I'm actually hanging out with friends, and they're watching football.
01:12
Well, I play SC2, so it's interesting to see what better players are doing.
Noooooooo! It's 1-1!
Mashing keyboards like hell.
What else.
Bonus Saturday!
It's when you drink so much you forget when you are.
(It sounded better in my head.)
It always does.
So, what's up with information theory?
I was navigating the slides to the beginning, and got bored midway.
01:16
Yeah, I think this isn't gonna work.
Even if I manage to get that bloody degree, I'll die shortly after, from the exposure to raw boredom. It'll be some serious condition with a funny name.
Doses of that are measured in lectures.
I'm sure there's a fruit equivalent, too.
Bah. If I won a million euro, I could doing nothing for the rest of my life.
Hey, if I ever win two million euro, I promise I'll give you half.
2
02:23
@EtiennedeMartel Haha!
Good grief, those slides are written in an impenetrable language.
I know it describes multiplexing, but it describes it in a way I can't process whatsoever.
03:16
Yeah, right, I'll learn Fourier transform in 2 hours.
This test I fail.
03:52
@CatPlusPlus Ha, I started out doing EE but choked on Fourier math. I just wasn't interested enough to learn it and didn't understand it until after I needed it.
Good thing I took that CS class...I would be miserable doing DSP for the rest of my life
Well, I don't need it. Unless it's on a test. Then I need it for 30 minutes.
I couldn't be bothered to learn it for even that long
I thought Fourier himself was an interesting character though
04:18
so, I'm looking at this code: int86( 0x10, ®s, ®s );
what the hell is the registered symbol supposed to represent?
do you think is was supposed to be 0xA9 but the web text editor replaced it?
hi all
At what times are the most users online? do any of you know that? Weekday, US-timezone, afternoon maybe?
What's with that question.
I have no idea!
its the second code exmaple
example*
04:33
Not that. Also, forget about 13h, it hasn't been relevant for years.
suresure, but any idea on the registered symbol?
They screwed up the encoding somewhere.
It's from 1999, and flipcode is long defunct.
nah, I just looked at the source code
supposed to be int86( 0x10, &regs, &regs );
Since int86 takes two pointers, it's probably &regs.
But really, who cares. You can't use 13h on a modern system.
Im just trying to understand graphics programming
04:41
13h is not really relevant to that, either.
kay, I got that... I'm not trying to program in 13h
just trying to learn about the basics of graphics programming
Oh you meant my question :) I've been reading and not understanding it
I just have the feeling that not many people are online right now. So I wonder if someone knows good times where there are lots of users.
But actually, if the chat is any indication for that, I'll just look into that from now on .... this is my first time here.

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