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20:03
Bah.
LaTeX is hard.
user1804599
Streams and FSMs are fucking awesome: gist.github.com/rightfold/fe2086aee9d9534c91bc
@VáclavZeman so use lyx?
@BenjaminGruenbaum Well, I cannot. I am trying to make my own cooking recipes book and I want it to look a specific way. :)
The problem I see with LaTeX is that there are so many different packages and some of them are incompatible together.
'I want it to look a specific way' -> 'I want to make my own document class'
@VáclavZeman Why would you use LaTeX for that? Aren't you better off using a markup language like HTML?
20:13
Right now I have hit minitoc vs titlesec incompatibility.
user1804599
Woo if (fsm.accepted) { System.exit(0) }
@BenjaminGruenbaum Eh?
@BenjaminGruenbaum IMHO HTML is not good enough.
Also LyX is kind of lame.
@Rapptz it's a recipe book, I use lyx and LaTeX when I need to type in a lot of math.
20:14
...so?
If I don't - they're kind of pointless, for general documents without formulas I usually just use markdown.
only works for basic markup
If I want arbitrary styles for something like a recipe book I'd probably just do it in photoshop, or use something like HTML with CSS where I can specify it with classes. Using LaTeX for that seems kind of stupid, maybe I'm just not very good with LaTeX though I've only been using it for 3 years daily for math stuff.
if all you use LaTeX for is math mode then you're probably not too good with LaTeX (no offence, ofc)
user1804599
You can use MathJax in HTML.
20:18
Well, I write texts in it, but mostly yeah - it wouldn't be my first choice for a recipe books (also - none taken)
Or, you know, KaTeX
which seems promising
iunno if I'd make a recipe book in LaTeX
LaTeX already has a book document class
either way I think I'd be dealing with some fuckery w.r.t. placing of images
I'm not in an environment of people who care too much about LaTeX and honestly opt for lyx when I can get away with it. I use it for "boring" stuff mostly like Algo/Math homework assignments from both angles (when TAing and when taking courses)
I use LaTeX a lot for my job and school since I'm in academia :p
Most of the people here are just theoretical math people, getting them to use lyx is hard enough as it is.
@Rapptz yeah, I don't use it at all at my work, only when I'm at the university
LaTeX has 'css' too ya know.
I'd rarely recommend anyone to write their own document class though.
Seriously though, I can see the appeal of a recipe book in LaTeX but doing it in Markdown with post processing through HTML and css sounds pretty trivial and likely much easier to give to other people to maintain.
well
what if you want the images to be on the top right or something?
dealing with css and positioning is a major PITA
not that it's great in LaTeX or anything but if you don't know what you're doing you're fucked in both situations
@Rapptz position: absolute; top:0; right: 0 ?
Not to mention that if css is too hard you can always use something like bootstrap which is even simpler. Honestly css/html is so simple compared to actual programming I never bothered with anything like that but it's supposed to be even simpler.
@BenjaminGruenbaum Don't think so.
20:28
@Rapptz try it, guaranteed results :)
doesn't work
Well, I have fixed the issue by using titletoc instead of minitoc.
I thought about using Markdown + Pandoc but I have started this like a year ago. :)
I mean, yeah it's on the upper right but it doesn't wrap text
And I started with xcookybooky but I did not like few things it did so I have evolved into own macros and stuff...
you have to use something like
float: right; margin: 0 0 1em 1em; or whatever
20:32
@Rapptz sure it does
couldn't get it to wrap text
lol ok then, probably another issue though.
probably
float up there worked though
user1804599
Try harder finding an actual picture.
20:40
"Dynamic Programming"
What a horrible buzzword
user1804599
Static programming.
user1804599
I hate those smileys
so much
user1804599
They fixed it so that if you click one, the smiley selector doesn't go away. :D
user1804599
So you can keep clicking to send more and more of them!
20:43
ugh
user1804599
Dammit I cannot send one to you on FB. :'[
bah
I hate it when I'm in the middle of a complex battle and my allies command critical components to do worthless things
user1804599
Stop playing with the incompetent.
@Puppy what game?
planetary annihilation
20:49
Can you please check now and solve my problem — Talha 10 hours ago
took him 3 days to add code to his question
user1804599
Lounge<Massacre>
user1804599
@Talha impatience is heavily frowned upon on Stack Overflow. — rightfold 5 secs ago
@rightfold shit, you found my FB
user1804599
It wasn't difficult. Just searched for name: "Marginean" workplace: "Gameloft."
it's also listed on my website
user1804599
20:52
> I am wordpress and HTML5 developer. I do programming as poet do poetry.
user1804599
@AlexM. ololtopkek
I don't mind people seeing my facebook, so I never thought it would be a bad idea to add it to my website
it's in the "Find me on..." section near twitter and all other things
user1804599
I hope everything is private on my Facebook.
user1804599
Wait, I can just log out and check that.
add me to friends already you fool
then we can spam each other with smileys
user1804599
20:54
> Interests: Curry–Howard correspondence
user1804599
Yikes, my potential future employer better not see that!
@rightfold that is beyond cheesy
user1804599
Also why do I like islam. :v
user1804599
I actually don't like it at all.
Who wants to make turtle puns with me?
Anyone?
user1804599
20:57
@Nooble Sorry, busy eating pizza.
^ Jealous
@rightfold I hate you.
user1804599
It was a joke, you fools. :v
I would make turtle puns
but I'm too busy not making turtle puns
20:58
still. now I crave for pizza
I would Turtley make turtle puns
user1804599
Inject liquified pizza directly into your blood.
@rightfold You might say that, but I don't believe you. Now I have to order pizza.
that would not give me any pleasure
Are you sure????
user1804599
20:59
Last night I had a dream in which I committed a massacre.
user1804599
It was a horrible nightmare.
did you roll back after?
(ok leaving)
user1804599
LOL
I didn't get the Joke.
21:00
you didn't really miss anything
I can't sea-turtley clear sorry.
I didn't get the pizza.
version control joke right?
user1804599
rightfold=# begin;
rightfold=# update people set dead = true;
rightfold=# commit;
rightfold=# rollback;
NOTICE:  there is no transaction in progress
@Nooble Databases..
21:01
Oh
my god those turtle puns are horrible
Lel
Transactions...
user1804599
@AndyProwl even if I had, I were still in trouble!
Pepperonis..
21:01
Alex M
What's your favorite color
user1804599
@Nooble But can you still see my LOGO clearly?
@rightfold that message was for Nooble :P
@rightfold ah, makes sense now :D
@rightfold Huehuehu
You know what's my favorite color?
Tortoise.
user1804599
I've not been at home for three days now. Better call my pet with my shellphone.
Speaking of shellphones, are you willing to shell it to me for a certain price?
user1804599
21:05
I'd turtley do that!
In fact, I remember you selling it already...
I'm having a turtle recall
I don't even
user1804599
I don't odd
I do even
user1804599
Those were 11-odd good puns.
21:08
Huh
I ran out of turtle puns
/cc @ThePhD ^
user1804599
@Nooble Ninja Turtle Mutant Puns
try tortoise puns
Hey you know what's my favorite kind of donut
Donutello
I like to have it with Donutella inside
21:12
@AndyProwl saw your proposal, so can you explain what exactly is different from regular inheritance?
user1804599
So you have the niceties of donuts with the horribleness of nutella?
@Nooble I have a crush on this girl, I rather you donuteller ;)
@TemplateRex it is non-intrusive
@Borgleader Lulz
user1804599
You can fix all inheritance-related problems in a very simple way: remove inheritance.
21:13
akin to concept maps, but for dynamic polymorphism rather than static polymorphism
@AndyProwl but, but, the ctable?
@TemplateRex that's probably the old version of the proposal
@TemplateRex your comment did not have any puns inside it, this renders it completely invalid.
(actually calling it "proposal" is a bit of a stretch, it's more of a sketch right now)
there's a thread on std-proposals
The latest version is here: bit.ly/ZgruFY
That should not require the ctable, only itables
All these shell puns need bashing.
21:15
@AndyProwl you mean Porpoise-al?
@MartinJames shell we bash them?
We shell
user1804599
@Nooble Shall we fork or bomb them?
let's bork
or fomb
@rightfold BOTH
user1804599
21:17
@AndyProwl Watch out before I SIGBRK you.
Getting totally borked sounds a good idea.
@rightfold you won't commit another crime will you?
@Nooble hmm, puns? I'm slightly daft at this stage in my saturday night
(it's not you, it's him)
I just finished refactoring 15K of code to use std::size_t for indexing instead of signed int
all tests pass, so I hit the Remy Martin :-)
user1804599
21:20
Tests pass? Better hit the Robert Martin then.
3
@rightfold if I ever meet that guy, I'll hit him for sure
@chris erm, both made by largely irrelevant companies?
user1804599
lol school
user1804599
School is for unducation.
21:23
@AndyProwl I think your proposal will never fly unless you show a working implementation, so maybe hire the Puppy to hack on Clang for you
@TemplateRex that's exactly what I was thinking, but I don't want to bother Puppy
I will try to learn how to do that myself
But I wanted to receive some feedback before I even started
user1804599
Holy shit this is so versatile.
btw, whatever happened to that C++ Grand Master thingy? was that a complete hoax or what?
what is that?
user1804599
If I want to make battle not turn-based I can simply add Timeout to the alphabet of the FSM and create a timer. :0
21:25
@AndyProwl ow, something last year, some company did a MOOC (well not that massive) that would produce a working C++11 compiler after a year or so
like, the whole Standard, preprocessing, tokenization, all the phases of the compiler
ah, never heard of that
would actually be quite interesting
Dave Abrahams wrote somethign on the Boost list IIRC, that he could never do it
that sort of settled it for me that it was a hoax
or well, even a book on clang would be a good place for me to start
I'm not a compiler guy so I guess I'll find it hard to learn by reading the source code
it actually still goes on
user1804599
whaha
21:27
looks interesting
I'd like to take such a course
@AndyProwl better hire a C++ guru to review your code in private coaching sessions, you know, like chess players hire GMs to coach them
@TemplateRex I meant that I'd like to take a course on how to write a full-fledged C++ compiler
@AndyProwl well you can download the assignments, see how for you get
true, but I won't get far without a teacher
user1804599
21:33
If you want to write compilers you can better start with a not-C++ compiler. :v
that's about compiler theory in general I guess. They'd probably say something like "and then there are super-complex languages like C++ which are outside the scope of this course". The concrete language used as a working example is called "Cool"
user1804599
More like a Python compiler or something. :v
@TemplateRex (anyway thanks for the resource, will watch the videos)
I just doubt it will help me hacking Clang
@AndyProwl actually, I meant, you probably need that level of knowledge before even thinking of building a C++ compiler. The "Dragon book" is a book to read if you want to gory details.
user1804599
I should write a proper language specification.
21:35
true
I'm rather curious what D is going to do, there is a ton of traffic on their mailinglist about C++ compatibility
user1804599
I didn't really like the dragon book.
for some reason, the D compiler is much easier (more parallel, single pass over all source files), so if you want to hack some concepts on to an existing language, you could try and learn some D
I guess I'll start with the Dragon Book
@AndyProwl btw, the intrusiveness (intrusivity?) of regular inheritance, couldn't that be resolved through uniform function call syntax: obj.fun() will fall back to fun(obj) if no member is found
then you could tack on all the concepts you like as regular functions
21:40
@TemplateRex that is just syntactic sugar AFAICS
well no, you add new functionality without the class definitoin being the wiser
user1804599
@AndyProwl Be sure to also try to actually write compilers for simple languages as you read on.
just write a bunch of bar(obj), fizz(obj) etc, that can then be called like obj.bar(), obj.fizz()
@TemplateRex well, say you have two classes X and Y, unrelated, both have a member function foo(). Now I want to create a free function bar() that takes an object which could be X or Y, or anything which supports foo() actually (bar() will eventually call foo() on its argument). I cannot make bar() a template, and I want to compile bar() separately. What's the signature of bar()?
@rightfold Sounds reasonable
wow $133
lol EUR 208 on amazon.de
@AndyProwl i c, so you want bar() also to be able to call an even newer class Z that also happens to have foo()?
21:45
this proposal thing is going to be expensive
@AndyProwl torrent time
@TemplateRex Yes. Actually, it is not even necessary that the class Z has foo(), as long as there is a concept instantiation for Z that tells how to implement foo() in terms of Z's interface (a concept map, basically)
@TemplateRex I have a book fetish
I hate downloading and printing
@AndyProwl downloading and ereader?
lol
I like paper
(well, not the paper from my printer)
@AndyProwl I like paper scrolls, but I won't wait until Effective Modern C++ comes out on that medium
21:48
btw shouldn't that book be out already?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Maybe using ship orientation/directions: starboard and port directions?
clay tablets also give you a very tactile user experience, people tell me
'I thought only main() could call other functions.' - I do hope the poster has not written much code with that constraint:)
@AndyProwl in the next few weeks IIRC, I bought the early cuts on Oreilly
cool
I'm looking forward
21:50
@AndyProwl it's pretty good. Although reading through the concurrency section, you can't shake the thought that C++14 threading is still in the assembly phase. Just one darn marshalling of arguments and results after another
@TemplateRex I see. I've seen the first chapters and they look well-organized
The free sampler basically
@AndyProwl I meant the C++14 threading standard, the chapters by Scott are OK
Oh, OK
I'm curious what's going to happen for C++17
I never really used it until now, but reading Scott's chapters on it, really weren all that inviting
user1804599
I think I will just go with & and | for logical and and or.
21:52
@rightfold What is 'Robert Martin'?
Uncle Bob
all that "don't join this, make sure you don't get blocked here", way too low level
@MartinJames he's Remy Martin's brother
@TemplateRex after all low-level stuff is all we have so far
@AndyProwl Oh - not rhyming slang, then:(
sadly not
21:54
@AndyProwl yeah, it sucks
user1804599
As for collection literals I was thinking of [type|elements], for example [List|1, 2, 3, 4, 5] and [Set|1, 2, 3, 4, 5].
I'm curious to see what will happen with await
user1804599
But I think that's ugly.
and whether they'll manage to find a monad-like generalized framework for that stuff
user1804599
Wait, I know! List {1, 2, 3, 4, 5} and Set {1, 2, 3, 4, 5}!
21:55
e.g. a parallel search algorithm is just too damn hard to write cleanly. I want to be able to say, search for this predicate to be true, doing these and these blocks in parallel, figure out your own load balancing, and cancel all threads as soon as one has found the result.
user1804599
Then I can use […] for something else.
threads aren't even interruptible without writing two pages of insanely subtle code
> for(int i=0;i<10;++i) is faster than for (int i = 0; i < 10; ++i)
@TemplateRex yeah. working with tasks is nearly impossible
although PPL is not bad
No spacing = PERFORMANCE
21:56
lol
@MohammadAliBaydoun definitely faster
@AndyProwl in compilation, sure, saves a few extra tokens
@MohammadAliBaydoun ioccc.org
I'm writing code in the most obfuscated way
Just to see if it affects the way I think
@MohammadAliBaydoun set emacs in Hebrew mode, and type right-to-left, see how it goes
@MohammadAliBaydoun maximum performance: for(int i=0;i++<9;)
21:59
@AndyProwl But then i starts as 1 inside the loop.
@FredOverflow ah, right
@AndyProwl for(int i=-9; i++;)
BUT performance!
Who cares about bugs, PERFORMANCE IS MORE IMPORTANT
for (int i = -1; ++i < 10; )

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