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10:00 PM
so many spaces
huge overhead
unacceptable penalty
 
Spaces are not compiled into the executable :)
 
it is better to be slightly incorrect soon than to be completely correct way later
at least on SO anyway
 
@TemplateRex Indeed, which I why, for 30 years, in several languages, I have been saying ' do not try to 'interrupt' threads'. 'interrupt' is, anyway, quite the most insane word to use for functionality that cannot actually interrupt anything that is not a system call. The term 'interrupt' is already booked re. preemptive multitasking OS and should not have been overloaded for this dubious feature.
 
@FredOverflow :P
 
@MartinJames dubious?
 
10:01 PM
Fucking java started that 'interrupt' shit.
 
@AndyProwl It's pretty simple in implementation terms, really.
 
@Puppy for you maybe :)
 
if I want to cancel a task, it better stop. if you want another name, ok
 
@FredOverflow Sure they are (in whitespace).
 
@AndyProwl especially in debug mode (for Python compatibility) where the compiler has to balance tabs at runtime
 
10:03 PM
oh
 
I think MSVC will give an option to turn of checked_tabs in CTP4
 
but value semantics is fairly considerably more complex.
 
@TemplateRex that reminds of my company's architect claiming that "lists were faster than vectors" - he was starting a small benchmark program by pressing F5 in debug mode
 
@TemplateRex Problem is that you cannot cancel a task running user code on another core than the one requesting the cancellation, (unless you are an OS).
 
@AndyProwl architect, the peter principle personified, then?
 
10:04 PM
@Puppy indeed
 
particularly
the C++ model could never permit anything other than heap allocation, most likely.
you would want to include a paragraph on, say, SBO.
and how it could be applied
 
@MartinJames parallel search needs early termination, dont care about how the OS does it
 
also, you don't cover the really interesting stuff.
 
@Puppy my feeling is that for some situations heap allocation is not necessary (e.g. passing a value as an argument to a function)
 
for example, how the entire of std::function is instantly obsoleted by the much superior.
@AndyProwl Your feeling is wrong.
 
10:05 PM
oh, how come?
 
@TemplateRex If the OS does it, it will rip out execution from your task, quite possibly while it is holding locks, eg. on a memory-allocator.
 
@Puppy please keep in mind, this is not a proposal yet. It's an idea and I want to figure out if it's worth investing more time on it. I'm just looking for feedback
 
@MartinJames maybe throw exceptions across threads
 
well, it's complicated, but the long and short is that the implementation could legally pass a pointer to the source argument, and then perform copy-construction inside the function body.
but in this case, it can't do that because it doesn't know the size/alignment of the required object.
 
true
 
10:07 PM
not to say that the implementations could not be re-worked for this specific case.
 
@Puppy wait, there is no added state ?
 
in that case a dynamic allocation would be required
but not in all cases
 
but in the general case, you can't implement value semantics for this stuff without dynamic allocation.
because you don't have the necessary knowledge to create static allocations for them.
same as std::function cannot be implemented without dynamic allocation.
 
@AndyProwl did you ever read this: github.com/pyrtsa/poly
 
@TemplateRex yes
 
10:08 PM
however, of course, you really should note how the virtual-concepts thing is strictly superior to std::function in every way.
 
there's also Sean Parent's talk & slides on Adobe.Poly
 
@AndyProwl oh ok, I figured so, just making sure
 
and also instantly obsoletes boost::any as well.
 
and is it in any way related to Bjarne's "accept no visitors" papers
 
10:09 PM
no.
you also need to discuss the potentials for dynamic_cast and how that would work in this situation, along with typeid() and exceptions.
 
@Puppy I would prefer not to make strong claims until I have something that looks like a concrete implementation
 
the implementation is easy.
trust me, I've been planning this feature for Wide for a while.
 
well, keep in mind I'm illiterate
oh
 
or, well.
for Wide it would be super easy.
I know that in many cases, compilers like Clang are written with way stricter assumptions about what they support and how they're implemented.
 
10:12 PM
@TemplateRex Yep, I knew about Mach7
It's a relatively old project
interesting anyway
 
so how does Haskell do this efficiently? is there an open source reference compiler?
 
@TemplateRex no idea
But it seems to me that the performance overhead for "virtual concepts" would be the same as for inheritance if not less, except for the dynamic allocation which is often required when working with value semantics
 
@AndyProwl It's better than regular inheritance because you only pay the cost when you need it.
instead of all the time.
 
exactly
 
10:16 PM
so for example, it would be very feasible to define a virtual concept Container<T>, and then have e.g. std::vector<T> : Container<T>.
 
there are also many things I haven't thought of very much yet, like concept inheritance
 
anyway, all I'm saying is that the implementation issues aren't really big if you've already implemented regular inheritance.
 
I completely regret getting involved with University programming.
 
@Puppy I see. OK, thanks for the feedback
It will not be easy for me but it's good to know it's feasible
 
and you've just scratched the surface of this particular rabbit hole.
 
10:18 PM
I believe that
 
I would implement it in Wide but I'm currently more busy working on some other stuff
concepts and their related features (including this one) are on a relative back-burner for me
 
how's the new job?
 
the job's fine
the travelling/relocating is a nightmare though
 
haven't found an accommodation there?
 
seems like a decent property in Bristol stays on the market for only two or three days
by the time I can physically get there to see it, it's gone.
 
10:22 PM
how about staying there for a week, perhaps in some hostel, so you can catch the opportunity when it comes?
not comfortable, but temporary
 
@Puppy live in a hotel for a fortnight, then you are close for quick visits to houses
 
where do you think I've been for the past three days :P
 
lol, ok then
 
it's not tremendously practical because I have to also work 9-5:30, and with just a phone, it's hard to arrange stuff
 
@Puppy your employer would probably want you to be relocated soon, they should cut you somje slack for house shopping
 
10:24 PM
they do but I don't feel comfortable walking out of work to view houses
 
@Puppy are you doing all by yourself, or through some agency?
 
by myself mostly
 
ah, not easy then
 
@Puppy 1 hour lunch break is not too out of the ordinary
 
@TemplateRex An hour in Bristol will hardly get you ten feet.
 
10:25 PM
@Puppy well, good luck commuting :-)
 
heh.
 
someone invent teleportation already =/
 
@Borgleader i'm too busy with time travel
 
If I had a single super power
It'd be teleportation.
Shit would be so cool.
 
@Rapptz no way, time travel
 
10:26 PM
lame
 
immortality
 
teleporting to and from work and to visit overseas friends
top tier
 
@AndyProwl at fixed age, i hope?
 
that will give me enough time to invent teleporting and time travel
@TemplateRex right
 
otherwise, no girls for like eternity
 
10:27 PM
@Rapptz Oh yeah. Partying, drinking beer while watching my cars burn would be great!
 
@TemplateRex I might find the time to invent a pill that makes me young again though
 
no such thing as "don't drink and teleport"
 
lol
 
@Rapptz Yeah... I was just about to bring that up.
 
well, it's too late for me, with 2 kids at my bedside in about 6 hrs, so timetravel backwards an hour or two now ;-)
 
user1804599
10:29 PM
 
"Where's Fred today?". "Oh, he's gone. Got hammered yesterday and teleported into a tree".
 
@TemplateRex have a safe trip :)
so I bought that dragon book
 
posted on September 27, 2014 by Eric Niebler

Here’s a simple question: in C++11 what’s the best way to put debug checks in constexpr functions? Since assert is not constexpr, the obvious doesn’t work: constexpr bool in_range(int val, int min, int max) { assert(min <= max); // OOPS, Continue reading →

 
@MohammadAliBaydoun what the bloody fuck
 
Look at my beautiful function
 
10:40 PM
1 message moved to bin
@Feeds Can't use lambdas in constexpr.
 
Yeah, I was going to delete it
 
@Feeds ARGH ASSERT ABUSE
 
Is there a way to get the template template parameter pack?
like
template<template<typename... Args> class Stuff>
without function parameter deduction
 
hmm.
I think that vector::insert is fucked.
 
user1804599
std::front_inserter fucked it.
 
10:49 PM
I meant w.r.t. exception safety.
 
user1804599
I meant w.r.t. vaginas.
3
 
I'm sure you did.
 
user1804599
Me too.
 
Ell
Fuck me that waitress was frickin hot
 
I'm guessing there's no way to do what I wanted easily
shit
 
Ell
10:53 PM
SRS guys I'm sure you'd all bone her in an instant
 
@Ell AFAWK she doesn't exist :P
 
hmm
if I have a vector with one allocator and I move into a vector with another, does the vector contents get moved or copied?
 
I love being bi because I can end conversations with “bisexulater”
 
11:08 PM
lol @Puppy very diplomatic comment
 
man
 
> I hate people who terminate the process on precondition violation.
 
it's true.
 
poor Eric Niebler
had to reply to puppy
 
user1804599
Terminating processes on precondition violations is a good thing to do.
 
user1804599
11:11 PM
If you want to keep uptime just spawn many processes with different inputs!
 
@rightfold you're being hated
 
user1804599
Good.
 
user1804599
> If you can parse Perl, you can solve the Halting Problem.
 
user1804599
> To prove Kennedy's Lemma, we assume that we can parse Perl.
 
Ell
@borgleader I took a selfie with her
I was at an Oktoberfest
 
11:21 PM
@Ell pics or didn't fappen
 
Ell
Hmm
Im drunk enough to consider uploading
But im trying to tell myself not to
 
user1804599
Just do it, you're awesome.
 
user1804599
#yolo
 
absolutely
trust me you won't regret that at all once you sober up
 
user1804599
TBH I've never had trouble with Perl's syntax.
 
Ell
11:25 PM
@andy I think I will :P I'd rather you saw me at the unconference
 
@Ell You can put a black bar on your face.
 
user1804599
That's racist!
 
@Ell what? :D
 
Ell
I'm not going to show my face
But seriously. Im at an Oktoberfest
She was hot :l
 
user1804599
@Ell where do you live?
 
11:32 PM
@Ell Beer goggles mate
 
@Ell Aren't all Oktoberfest barmaids hot?
 
user1804599
It's not even October.
 
perhaps in Munich time zone it is
 
Git q: If I forked and made a PR. If I then push to my fork will it be included in the PR?
 
user1804599
That would be an incredibly silly and horrible timezone.
 
user1804599
11:40 PM
@JohanLarsson On GitHub it will.
 
user1804599
If it's in the same branch.
 
ok good, I had a copy-paste dumb
 
pre-built libraries for gcc 4.9.0 work with gcc 4.9.1 right?
I am too lazy to rebuild
 
yep
 
How is C# baby dog?
 
user1804599
11:46 PM
Is it possible to catch specific errors in Lua? I want to catch only stack overflow errors.
 
can you catch SO in any language?
 
user1804599
You can in Java, Scala and Clojure.
 
I think when OOM or SO happens you are toast in C#
 
user1804599
58
A: C# catch a stack overflow exception

JaredParStarting with 2.0 a StackOverflow Exception can only be caught in the following circumstances. The CLR is being run in a hosted environment where the host specifically allows for StackOverflow exceptions to be handled The stackoverflow exception is thrown by user code and not due to an actual s...

 
ok, neither scenario feels like something that happens a lot in the wild.
Do you throw SO often?
 
user1804599
11:50 PM
In Lua you can, though:
 
user1804599
> function overflow_stack()
>>   overflow_stack()
>> end
> status, err = pcall(overflow_stack)
> print(err)
stdin:2: stack overflow
 
user1804599
@JohanLarsson I am using the Lua VM for Styx and I want to catch stack overflows and rethrow them as proper Styx objects.
 
user1804599
But I think I have to do a string search for "stack overflow". :v
 
Do you know if many use Styx?
 
user1804599
11:52 PM
Nobody does, since there is no working implementation for it.
 

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