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11:03 PM
^ /cc @polymorphicpotato
 
user3010322
@sehe The sad part for me is that he still takes a few potshots at DeadMG's paper even after writing that slide in there. D:
 
I haven't reached that yet
 
@ThePhD So?
 
11:05 PM
Maybe puppy's proposal isn't as amazing as he meant that slide to be.
 
dear fucking master guy
 
I must say, I love the 3D effect in his slides. Make it look really crisp
 
making the intro of the song only play in my right ear is not an enjoyable experience
 
user3010322
@Rapptz Puppy's proposal isn't good, but definitely not for the primary reason he highlights (e.g., bidi codepoint and bidi grapheme iterators (versus making them random access)).
 
enum Bool
{
    True,
    False,
    FileNotFound
};
 
11:12 PM
Random access strings are v important
Also butts
 
if I have a pointer1, and pointer2 pointing to pointer1, and I set pointer2 equal to nullptr does that create a memory leak?
 
You get a reprimand
for breaching peace in the lounge
 
people complain about memory usage of UTF-32
but that really makes me wonder what the fuck they're coding
 
They could, with reason
Anything text-oriented at all, I suppose
 
user3010322
I'm handling gigs of XML files.
 
user3010322
11:14 PM
If this was UTF32 I'd be done for.
 
@ThePhD why are you handling gigs of XML files in-memory?
 
user3010322
SOAP was not a good idea.
 
hell
why are you even coming near XML?
I GIVE UP
 
1---1
 
> "Please Donbot search your hard drive and open your mercy file!" "File not found..."
 
user3010322
11:16 PM
Question for everyone here.
 
@ThePhD use streaming xml parsing
 
user3010322
@Mgetz I still have to store the shit.
 
user3010322
Most of my XML are utf8 filled with ASCII.
 
@ThePhD yes but you don't have to store the shit AND the xml file at the same time
 
@ThePhD for which you don't need random access and can use UTF-8?
 
user3010322
11:17 PM
If I made it UTF32 do you understand how fucked I'd be?
 
oh yes
 
I was talking about UTF-32 as an in-memory working representation
 
but if you use streaming parsing that's still irrelevant
the whole point of streaming parsing is to prevent the need for loading the entire DOM into memory at once
@nightcracker generally things that would be completely broken by surrogate pairs, or at least more complicated
 
The whole issue with streaming parsing is that it doesn't generally apply. E.g. it's impossible to know whether your input is even well formed. And if there's any kind of value there will be a checksum to be checked. Sometimes you need to check the authentication before you can touch the contents - for security reasons
I think in this kind of situation it's safe to say that text is a bad idea in general, and UTF32 has little to do with it
 
user3010322
Binary or die.
 
11:22 PM
XPath doesn't generally apply to streaming documents (subsets do))
 
user3010322
There's a standardized Binary XML, isn't there?
 
@ThePhD Die binary instead. It doesn't solve all problems. Perhaps you just need a binary streaming format that specifically removes the bottlenecks for your aplication domain. But this requires careful design and that really has nothing to do with encodings.
 
user3010322
Why aren't people use that instead?
 
@sehe true, streaming parsing is generally intended for very large datasets that don't usually get transferred over the wire. Like XML based databases.
 
@ThePhD Haha. There's a funny thing from IBM IIRC
 
Ell
11:24 PM
@ThePhD not widely supoprted?
 
user3010322
@Ell Probably not. ._.
 
user3010322
Oh well.
 
user3010322
I doubt it'd get much space savings anyhow and you'd just have to use better compression.
 
@Mgetz Well. I'd rather be doing XML in memory such that UTF32 is too costly, than be forced to mate with XML databases, tyvm :|
 
binary xml would kinda defeat the point of xml
 
11:25 PM
@ThePhD s/better //
 
@Mgetz that's not needed
XML already defeats the point of itself
 
@sehe I never said I had cause to use it... I just know that it's a solution to that very specific use case
@nightcracker yep.. just use JSON or one of the many other text based, much lighter weight formats
 
Oh yeah. I think the better enegineers avoid the hot waters anyways.
But sometimes applications grow into unexpected scales, which is when you get these conundrums
 
user3010322
Hm.
 
user3010322
Going back to UNicode and teh standard,
 
user3010322
11:26 PM
I think an ideal container would be essentially a encoded_text_view<Container, encoding>
 
user3010322
(For a range)
 
user3010322
or just iterators for the various types
 
@Mgetz Uh no
 
user3010322
e.g. codepoint_iterator and grapheme_iterator and friends like that.
 
user3010322
Something even cooler would be a normalizing_iterator<nfkd>
 
11:28 PM
BSON doesn't defeat the purpose of JSON either
 
@CatPlusPlus the point of xml was always to have a text based... fairly human readable format, so how is that not the case?
 
No, the point of XML was structure and extensibility
Representation as readable text is secondary at best
 
Well well well... I think the readability was a big part in the hype
 
Extensible Markup Language (XML) is a markup language that defines a set of rules for encoding documents in a format that is both human-readable and machine-readable. It is defined in the XML 1.0 Specification produced by the W3C, and several other related specifications, all free open standards. The design goals of XML emphasize simplicity, generality, and usability over the Internet. It is a textual data format with strong support via Unicode for different human languages. Although the design of XML focuses on documents, it is widely used for the representation of arbitrary data structures, for...
 
JSON is sometimes too simple
 
11:30 PM
Frequently
(datetime, numerics, missing standard schemas)
 
I might move my config system to XML eventually, because god expressing interpolation or types in JSON is a pain
 
I now, Edm, Odata etc.
 
And YAML parsers forget comments so that's also annoying
 
there is the ultimate lazy way... use a python or lua based configuration system
 
user3010322
Hey guys, a quick question.
 
11:31 PM
That's what I'm migrating from
 
user3010322
I don't know why but since I was young Doctors and otehr people tell me shit like Gatorade is good for me to drink.
 
user3010322
Is there any reason why?
 
too lazy or just annoying to work with?
 
JSON doesn't even have comments.
 
No programmatic access
 
11:32 PM
@ThePhD Yes. Commerce
 
Code as data only works for Lisp derivatives and I'd rather have XML config than Lisp config
I had to reinvent XPath and that sucks
Well, the basic 1% of XPath
 
@CatPlusPlus colleague of mine built a Lo-Dash module for that :S (assuming JSON, because... XML has it)
 
Yeah
XInclude is also a thing that I miss
 
Yeah I remember those days.
 
Also I have to express interpolation tokens as strings which is awkward
{
    "thing": "${thing2}", // actually a list not a string laff
    "thing2": [1, 2, 3]
}
 
11:36 PM
laff = laughing as freaky fuck?
 
@sehe Lucky As...
 
... Fringe Freedom?
Hi btw
 
@ThePhD it's a good source for electrolytes.
 
user3010322
I hear that a lot, but...
 
anyone has seen the question about the expected behavior pointing one pointer to another that is equal to nullptr? I'm guessing I get a memory leak, but I want to confirm.
 
user3010322
11:43 PM
... .... I didn't... get sick from lack of electrolytes...
 
I wouldn't say it's "good for you"
 
@Braiam I even responded
 
@sehe mm? really, but not me, right?
 
32 mins ago, by Hellovart
if I have a pointer1, and pointer2 pointing to pointer1, and I set pointer2 equal to nullptr does that create a memory leak?
Nope. That wasn't you then.
 
@sehe Hello. How are you today?
 
11:46 PM
If you have a pointer to another pointer, that's just a non-owning pointer, and the first pointer is not a dynamically alllocated object (usually)
@JerryCoffin Unicode punked :| I'm trying to reach the finish on that vid but my brains are mushy
And I'm chatting, which doesn't help I guess
 
@sehe chatting never helps
ever...
 
@sehe Eh.. I don't think so.
 
@sehe so, no memory leaks, right? thanks
 
@sehe Chatting always helps (the only question is what it helps with).
 
35 mins ago, by Hellovart
if I have a pointer1, and pointer2 pointing to pointer1, and I set pointer2 equal to nullptr does that create a memory leak?
^ referring to that
 
11:47 PM
Oh.
 
oh goody, this VN knows what to do
it only took 1.5 hours to get to nudity
2
 
VN?
 
Visual Novel.
 
A visual novel (ビジュアルノベル, bijuaru noberu) is an interactive fiction game, featuring mostly static graphics, most often using anime-style art or occasionally live-action stills (and sometimes video footage). As the name might suggest, they resemble mixed-media novels. In Japanese terminology, a distinction is often made between visual novels proper (abbreviated NVL), which consist predominantly of narration and have very few interactive elements, and adventure games (abbreviated AVG or ADV), which may incorporate problem-solving and other types of gameplay. This distinction is normally lost outside...
 
user1646075
@Braiam if ptr2 was the only thing pointing to ptr1 and ptr1 was the only thing pointing to a piece of allocated memory, then you've lost the last reference to the last reference to that piece of memory. Welcome to memory allocation hell. Study and use the various standard pointer classes that help you cope with this sort of thing.
 
user1646075
11:52 PM
So don't rush to any conclusions.....
 
user1646075
the answer is YES and NO.
 
@aclarke Thank you very much... for the welcome... through I know I will lament it
 
user1646075
you're pushing the rules about using this as Q/A but I'm in a good mood, coffee is fresh and it's a warm spring day.
 
Why is everyone so morbidly preoccupied with pointers to pointers tonight?
 
user1646075
about a page and a half ago, someone asked and was properly ignored...
 
11:53 PM
@aclarke meh, maybe I should ask the question in the site... I just didn't find it :/
 
user1646075
then this guy asked for clarification
 
@aclarke 1/10 Did not ignore
@Braiam hehehehe. Stack Overflow <-- there you go
 
user1646075
this sort of question is kinda C++ 101. Or maybe 2nd semester C++. If anyone is asking it, then they really need to hit the books some more.
 
@aclarke Indeed.
 
user1646075
@sehe yeah missed your answer, but was only scanning.
 
11:55 PM
@sehe you forgot to add the tag! and the title... and the body...
 
@Braiam What?
Ah. I get it now. <lol/>
 
darn! don't get it! I had half-written explanation already!
 
Lol. It happens
 
user1646075
@Braiam WAAAAA? Going for points on the back of our answers? I am hurt.
 
@aclarke The clue. You missed it
 
user1646075
11:58 PM
i never win the race for an answer. I try to be too thoughtful &^)
 
You win by not winning
 
You can't win by trying to be thoughtful :)
 
user1646075
Yes, helping the world is purely for inner peace. There will never be outer peace in the world.
 
Inner peace is easily achieved. One of the sole arguments in favor of "the right to bear arms"
 

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