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12:00
All questions today are stupid.
Bah.
To ask an even more stupid question, which bazaar should I use for commandline
All I see is Python based
@LewsTherin it's a part of the standard installer. But like I said, I never got it working ;)
the standalone one
@jalf Thanks. If you didn't get it working I doubt I can.
12:02
@LewsTherin well, to be honest, I don't think I've tried in the last year at least
just cbf. Easier to just use the command line
plus, given how badly tortoisesvn behaves, I really don't want to use another tortoise* tool
@jalf What's cbf?
can't be f'ed
aka. can't be bothered
lol
can't be arsed?
yeah, or that
BZR installed!
12:05
@CatPlusPlus, I might have a non-stupid question for you shortly, hang tight :)
sbi
sbi
Ok, so here's what's to do, @RMartinho:
Cook the rice while you do the rest by putting it into well-salted boiling water. (See the package for details.) Since the rice you have takes only a few minutes (how many was it?), the longest will probably be to get the water boiling. You can have water almost boiling by the time we start here. For one cup of rice (probably enough for you), I take 2.5 cups of water, even though the package says 2 cups of water.
Cook the carrots, by putting them into just enough cold, slightly salted water, and putting that to a boil. The time it takes to get them do
(see full text)
Ok, I'm off for lunch.
@jalf Created a standalone tree (format: 2a)
Would bzr assume that's the project to track always?
what do you mean?
It works on that folder.
it tracks whatever is in that directory
well, anything that is in that directory, and that you've run bzr add on
12:09
So I have to keep doing that for whatever folder I am interested in?
more likely do it once for the root folder
but I don't know how your code is structured. Presumably you have one single root folder for the project?
Yeah, I have folder "Game Programming" -> "GameFolder1"
It is VS so it has all that .sln crap
I usually keep .sln files in the repo. But you want to ignore the IntelliSense database and other garbage.
I don't how to do that in bzr.
check my blog post then. create the repository in the root folder for the project, run bzr ignore <pattern> to tell it which files/dirs to ignore, bzr status to see what has been added and what hasn't, and bzr add to add anything that's not on the ignore list
@RMartinhoFernandes same as in hg or git
well, same as in hg. In git you have to edit .gitignore, iirc. With bzr you can do that, or just type bzr ignore <stuff>
Sure thanks, I will try it now
Argh I need to get a repos first
12:13
that's what you did with bzr init
I mean a remote one
ah
get it working locally first IMO
Yeah, good idea
0
Q: passing vectors by reference

SirYakalotIf I have a vector of objects in one class which I want to change in another, I would try and pass all the information by reference. What exactly do I need to pass by reference though? the vector? the objects? both? essentially what I'm asking is; what is the difference between these? vector&a...

All your examples are legal
Good grief.
@LewsTherin and when you need to clone it to a remote repo, either check these: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bazaar_%28software%29#Source_code_hosting or just use dropbox. The latter really seems like the simplest and easiest way to go
12:18
I put vectors on my CV by reference.
@CatPlusPlus It's gone.
I think Launchpad is actually easier for bzr than Dropbox.
@CatPlusPlus could be. I've never used it :)
but it seems pretty closely integrated, yeah
@jalf I'm not even close
The way VS structures file is annoying damn
@LewsTherin yep
12:21
Eh?
but most likely, you need to do something like bzr ignore Debug/ bzr ignore *.user and so on for the other autogenerated files and dirs
then just add everything else
oh, ignore the sdf file as well
*.sdf, *.suo, *.user, Debug/, Release/ should more or less cover everything
and once you've set that up, all those are jsut ignored by bzr going forward
Its different on mine
what is?
I'm sure you can find a prewritten .bzrignore file online.
My project file
instead of debug I have /Game1 again
well, when you build, it creates a Debug (or release) folder somewhere, right?
creating an ignore rule for Debug/ just tells it to ignore any directory (not only ones in the root, but in subfolders too) with the name Debug (the trailing slash is to indicate that it's a dir. Debug would refer to both files and dirs)
Anyway, I'm guessing you don't want to ignore /Game1
Yeah definitely not :)
so most likely, ignore the things I said (or the ones from @RMartinhoFernandes's link above), and run bzr status, and it'll probably only show files and dirs that you do want to track
I don't need no ignore rules to ignore my projects.
12:29
if there are a few other files that should be ignored, add those to the list
OK thanks @jalf fingers crossed :)
If you run bzr status it will list you all the files that it isn't ignoring.
yep. And once you've ignored everything that should be ignored, just run bzr add with no arguments, and it'll add everything it can find
You can check that list to make sure you got all the garbage covered.
My flatmates once complained that hg was too slow (I had suggested it to them for a school project). Turned out they had a 50MB IntelliSense database in the repo.
@jalf Oh nice that's pretty cool
12:35
yeah, that's why I'm suggesting you set up the ignore rules first. :)
I turned IS off completely recently.
@jalf It doesn't show the .bzr folder though
Oh, IntelliSense.
@LewsTherin It doesn't track the .bzr folder. It uses that folder to track stuff.
It would be a little difficult to use it to track itself.
@LewsTherin yeah, that's automatically skipped because it's used by bzr :)
it's where all the versioning information is stored
12:37
It's the repo, you can't add repo to the repo, because then who'd track the repo.
@CatPlusPlus the repo would, of course ;)
Cue yo dawg meme.
No, I shall do some other meme instead!
Oh no, not the amazing horse.
OMG, when I thought a 24hour long Nyan cat video was too much...
@FredOverflow i think both answers smell strongly of rationalization. i'd say compiler issue.
12:40
Damn you chat, not inlining HTTPS.
There's 100h in related.
@sbi hey, that's not above my level of cooking :-)
So where is the actual repo?
@LewsTherin the dir you ran bzr init on
12:44
The .bzr folder in it, to be specific. The rest is working copy.
if you want to create a new repo somewhere else, just run bzr branch <source> <dest>
for example, bzr branch . ..\otherdir
@CatPlusPlus well, any command that expects you to specify a repository should be pointed at the root folder, not at .bzr
.bzr is an implementation detail ;)
Well, .bzr/.. is repository root, underneath which are both repo and working copy. :P
Or no working copy.
@jalf Jesus explodes
also, I think if we want to be really pedantic, bzr wouldn't call this a repository
might simply be a branch :)
and a repository is something slightly different
Well, now it's just crazy talk.
:P
12:47
anyway, wherever you ran`bzr init` is your bzr repository, loosely speaking.
@CatPlusPlus in bzr, the branch, not repository, is the basic unit being source controlled. You can then optionally create a shared repository which multiple branches use to store their metadata in, but if not, each branch is self-contained, like the one @LewsTherin just created
but that's just nitpicking :)
I know, bzr is weird.
@LewsTherin confused? :D
@jalf Oh yes lol :) Funny I said Jesus explodes :O
Bah, confused. Try monotone if you want to be confused.
@LewsTherin well, I've never seen jesus explode before. What do I know? ;)
12:50
Then you'll be dealing with databases with repositories with branches with stuff.
so what do you want to know? :D
Have you ran bzr add already?
@jalf LOL
@RMartinhoFernandes Not yet, I'm still ignoring some files
still? How many do you have? ;)
I can ignore all the files.
12:53
Guys I have to to a lecture now :)
Be back later
I kinda miss the old blue screen of death, didn't see it for AN ENTIRE HOUR.
sbi
sbi
13:14
@AlfPSteinbach I never said it would be. I mean, I do it myself, so it can't be that hard.
Oh yeah, and I'm back @RMartinho, so we could start.
Oh, right... I'll have to wait a bit now. The stove is in use now by my flatmates.
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh, too bad.
Well, just ping me when you are ready, Ok?
@sbi oh, i was just happy that i could follow what you're talking about
mornung
13:16
i just upvoted this question
1
Q: Compile C++ code into assembly and then de-assemble

ShayanDoes anyone know how convert C++ code to assembly code and then do the reverse? The forward way is very easy: g++ -S I want to analyze the output and see if it has been compiled correctly (Just for curiosity now, but it can have some applications). However, my knowledge of assembly is very lim...

any negative experience with visual studio 11 preview?
buggy and slow
but hey, it's visual studio, so no news there
really, I like it from the new highlighting features
13:53
Question of the day: will I manage to build GLib and Pango without using Cygwin.
@AlfPSteinbach I haven't tried it. But what I've heard can be summarized as "just as slow as VS10, and no real improvements in C++11 support"
sbi
sbi
@CatPlusPlus You could use MinGW. :)
I'm not expecting issues with the compiler.
@sbi ok, I'm starting now.
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Is the water for the rice on the stove?
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Ok, and you got the right amount of water, haven't you?
Yay, now VS randomly cannot convert old projects.
I love when this happens.
@sbi Hmm, yeah.
sbi
sbi
@RMartinho: I don't know what you want now. Are you going to work down my to-do list and just throw a question at me when you're unsure, or should we perform each step together?
I'm working down the list. I'll ping you if I need help.
(Heating the oil now.)
sbi
sbi
14:08
Ok.
@sbi When I drop water into the hot oil, what reaction should I expect?
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes If the oil is really hot, it will be far above 100°C, so the water more or less explodes.
That's why I said two drops! (Ah little piece of onion helps, too, but since you don't like onions, I considered it unlike you have any available.)
Can any of you brilliant C++ minds help me with this one? For some reason, I just cannot get it to work :)
0
Q: Using std::is_base_of with decltype on class hierarchy

Moo-JuiceFor the purposes of brevity, this is the simplified hierarchy: class IBase { public: virtual ~IBase() = 0 { }; }; // eo IBase class IDerived : public virtual IBase { public: virtual ~IDerived() = 0 { }; }; // eo IDerived class Base : public virtual IBase { public: Base() { }; ...

@sbi just to make sure I got this right, the carrots go in a separate pot, right? Not together with the rice.
sbi
sbi
14:16
@RMartinhoFernandes Yes!
LOL!
sbi
sbi
You Ok, @RMartinho?
so virtual template function aren't allowed right?
@sbi Hmm, yeah. I broke the filet into three pieces while turning it, but other than that it's fine.
I think I'm getting the hang of making rice. :)
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I thought that would happen, but didn't want to discourage you. :)
Unless you have guests, it's not a problem, after all.
7
A: Templatized Virtual function

sbiShort answer: Virtual functions are about not knowing who called whom until at run-time, when a function is picked from an already compiled set of candidate functions. Function templates, OTOH, are about creating an arbitrary number of different functions (using types which might not even have be...

@RMartinhoFernandes Well, rice is a no-brainer, but you gotta start with something. :)
14:42
@sbi talking to whomever wishes to answer the question.
sbi
sbi
@TonyTheLion Yeah, sorry, I didn't pay enough attention. Fixed now.
ok
-6
Q: C library for game development

PrathameshI am looking for a game development library using C. The C library should have graphics rendering capacity (in 2D) like drawing different shapes etc. Can we have the functions like moving these shapes, checking for its collisions etc. with it? OR do we need to have physics engine for that sake? ...

why would anyone even consider doing that?
write a game in C? I think that is putting yourself up for a loss
Good morniiiing
afternoon :P
I'm surprised how few people are in UTC-5 here.
14:47
What's that? NYC?
(Most of the people on this room run on CET)
@sbi: ok, I'm eating now :)
@RMartinhoFernandes It's EST
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes And? is it any good?
@EtiennedeMartel EST can be: UTC+1, UTC-5, or UCT+10.
And some others.
It's not really a good acronym.
@sbi It tastes good.
sbi
sbi
@TonyTheLion See this, especially the last point.
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, I mean -5.
sbi
sbi
14:51
@RMartinhoFernandes Good! When you're done, I have a desert for you. But first you need to empty your plate. :)
cpx
cpx
@TonyTheLion we have it in an faq!
17
Q: Can a member function template be virtual?

WannaBeGeekI have heard that member function templates can't be virtual. Is this true? If they can be virtual, what is an example of a scenario in which one would use such a function?

@cpx Unfortunately, the accepted answer is not top-notch :(
sbi
sbi
3
Q: What keywords are important to speedup the code in C++?

GiuseppeI'm porting to C++ and adding a lot of functionality to a numerical application written in Fortran 77. While I hate F77, I have to admit that the thing goes very fast. Now, I'm implementing practically the same structure and algorithm, but nevertheless the difference in the execution time is noti...

WTF?!
And people still wonder why C++ code is often badly written.
14:58
meh, what a silly question
there's no keywords that will speedup a damn thing
he needs to qualify his functions as gofaster
gofasterstripes !
What's funny is that at first I read that as "keyboard". And I was like "Eh?"
Damn, beat me to it.
inline, sometimes.
14:59
@StackedCrooked If the planets are aligned.
@sbi Ok, I'm curious (and my plate is empty). What do you mean?
As long as the turbo button is activated.
It helps if you use an italicized font too.
@StackedCrooked No, silly! The Turbo button's primary function is to slow down, not to speed up!
@RMartinhoFernandes right
sbi
sbi
15:00
0
Q: What are Starseeds

sbiI'm currently reading Juggler of Worlds by Niven & Lerner. I have read, a while ago, all the Ringworld books and a few other Known Space, so I remember that the Puppeteers used a Starseed lure to get Outsiders to the humans so they could obtain the hyperdrive technology and defeat the K...

@sbi Oh, neat. Rep.
sbi
sbi
0
A: What keywords are important to speedup the code in C++?

sbiYour code will hardly become faster magically by sprinkling a few keywords here and there. And simply copying algorithms from one language to another (if that's indeed what you are doing) is never going to help. Speed correlates with a good design, and selectively applied optimizations as a r...

@sbi Is it okay if I spoil Destroyer of Worlds?
A few times I found that compiling with full optimizations improved performance with a factor of 100x.
Instant upvote.
15:03
Wait, now, I'm unsure if it's on Juggler or Destroyer.
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I didn't read the spoiler. Thanks for the answer!
Arrgh, I can't find it on the dead trees. And I can't find a torrent of the book.
obvious troll
It might be just me, but this comment thread is funny:
6
A: Use of variables in global namespace

Nawazint a = 0; //it is a declaration (and definition too) statement a = 42; //it is an assignment statement The second line is the cause of error, for it is an assignment statement. At the namespace-level, only declaration and definition statements are allowed. Assignment-statements are not al...

15:26
@sbi Oh! It's actually at the end of Juggler! That explains why I couldn't find it in Destroyer... Oops.
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Well, no problem for me, just change your answer. I'll reach the end of Jugglers this week.
Oh, nobody upvoted your answer, and nobody upvoted my question either. :(
Guess the site is on a slow period right now.
slow... you... say... ?
Woa, I'm just 641 rep away from 10k.
I can't wait!
15:41
@sbi how many Known Space stories have you read before? By the time I read Juggler I had read almost everything, and I found the first two thirds of the book incredibly boring. It's basically a retelling of Beowulf's stories, as seen from Sigmund's and the puppeteers' POV.
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Perhaps two besides the Ringworld books? I don't think I have read anything substatnial about Beowulf before.
Oh, that should make it more enjoyable then :)
cpx
cpx
hm can you see deleted questions too at 10k?
how do you see the diff of two versions of a question?
15:47
If you click on the link that shows the last edit time, it shows you all versions, each diffed to the previous.
Looks like this.
There are three little buttons on the left that let you switch between the source and rendered diffs.
ok, can anyone look at this question then and tell me that ildjarn is not an ass or that his changing the question into something completely different was ok?
Hmm, can you use Windows Forms without C++/CLI?
Isn't it .NET?
@RMartinhoFernandes true, you can't. Which is why I object to him just rewriting the question into "oh, he probably wants to rewrite his program as C++/CLI then"
It's .NET. Windows Forms components are CLI classes.
when most likely, the OP wants no such thing, and is just looking for a way to make a GUI for his C++ program
15:54
@jalf Oh, I see. I've read the comments now.
Every time I see "Visual C++" as a replacement for "C++/CLI", I shudder.
Yeah, I think there's no need to change the question to C++/CLI.
sbi
sbi
This is an interesting read: boingboing.net/2011/10/31/…
16:07
I just read the whole mess about iterators and pointers in the chat archive. This guy was insane.
I had some other "difficult" discussions (though not as bad as that one) with him before. I'm not doing it again.
I promise.
Oh, so it's not the first time.
Was he really ignorant or being a troll?
With Poe's Law, there's no way to be sure, but I think he was serious.
16:22
@sbi oh i must get me that book
we must put lounge on mourning status when larry niven dies
also jerry pournell because of his Chaos Manor column in Byte
visual studio 11 prerelease install is Very Slow
i just heard that it supports lambdas, possibly variadic templates also
@AlfPSteinbach It's a tetralogy (and it seems there's a fifth in the works).
I really enjoyed it.
i have the first book
am I right in thinking SFINAE only applies when there's a dependent name in play?
I'm happy to say, however, that there will be a fifth book. And unlike Fleet, Juggler, Destroyer, and Betrayer, Fate of Worlds will be a sequel, rather than a prequel, to the Ringworld books. - Edward M. Lerner
@AlfPSteinbach I dont think it will support variadic templates blogs.msdn.com/b/vcblog/archive/2011/09/12/…
16:31
@bamboon thanks for that link. it is quite refreshing to read honest technical stuff from microsoft. even where it's not good news. i think our former chairman must have influenced the culture there. perhaps.
I'm sad, playing Nyan cat
:(
nyan nyan nyan nyan nyan ...
sbi
sbi
@AlfPSteinbach Juggler of Worlds? Why? Have you read other stuff from Niven, but missed these?
@AlfPSteinbach The first of what?
16:37
Hi all
is bill gates actually really in a developer team right now?
@bamboon no
@bamboon Yes, in the blue screen development for windows :)
what else is he doing?
16:41
In what scenarios, this snippet could be used. foo() = 7;
Could that kind of code would be any useful at all or at any where ?
@Mahesh - if you have an appropriate assignment operator it might make sense
@Mahesh In silly code, foo() could be a getter/setter.
wait is foo a type or a function or a macro?
my first answer assumed type
@awoodland - I could have although I actually prefer malloc to new. It can't throw and it doesn't have the unpleasent gotcha where you allocate an array and forget to delete[]. – Benj 48 mins ago
What?
what at which bit?
sbi
sbi
16:44
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh, I think Fleet of World is one of those I have read. Is that the one with the humans "saved" by puppeteers, and kept for "helping" their saviors?
@sbi Yes, that's the first one in the series.
sbi
sbi
@awoodland Whoa! Don't we have an FAQ why not to use malloc() in C++?!
@RMartinhoFernandes Ah, so the ones I bought now follow this one directly! Good.
@sbi - I couldn't see one, but I wanted to check I wasn't the only person who saw that reply as a WTF
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Do we have such an FAQ?
16:46
@sbi that series of four (to be five) books
(the reply I was expecting was something like "C compatibility")
sbi
sbi
@awoodland Actually, there's no What about that Fuck. :)
@sbi No, we don't.
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes We should.
@sbi - shall I create one?
16:47
I provided this answer recently:
11
A: malloc vs vector

R. Martinho Fernandesmalloc is a function from the C standard library that allocates memory. Period. That's it. Nothing else. There's very little you can do with raw uninitialised memory like this. The things you can do with it basically boil down to initialising it by hand (see new below), or releasing it. You can't...

sbi
sbi
Does anyone feel up to the task of writing an FAQ about not using malloc() and free() in C++?
The question is rather weak though.
@sbi I'll give it a go
sbi
sbi
@awoodland Ha, I was just asking. :)
@awoodland Did you see the fine print I put under all the FAQ questions? It helped getting them "tolerated".
@RMartinhoFernandes Indeed.
@RMartinhoFernandes That answer is pretty good, but might be a bit too focused on vector for being used in a malloc vs. new FAQ.
@awoodland Oh, wait! Search first! I can't believe this hasn't been answered before!
16:53
35
Q: What is the difference between new/delete and malloc/free?

MrDatabaseWhat is the difference between new/delete and malloc/free? Related (duplicate?): In what cases do I use malloc vs new?

sbi
sbi
27
Q: In what cases do I use malloc vs new?

I am new to C++ programming but have a solid background in C#, Java and PHP. I see in C++ there are multiple ways to allocate and free data and I understand that when you call malloc you should call free and when you use the new operator you should pair with delete and it is a mistake to mix the...

This is even better.
@awoodland, do you copy?
@awoodland WTF, there's an answer from the FQA there.
@sbi - yes, I see
I searched the tag earlier, possibly that last one should be retagged
It's full of "comments as answers". I'm flagging them for removal.
I also think such a FAQ should mention that you should not use naked news and should have them in resource managing classes instead.
There's also a "peculiar" history there...
sbi
sbi
@awoodland I just searched the links of related questions to it, and it seems this is the master the others got closed as dupes of.
16:59
Maybe we should set a bounty on it for a grandiose FAQ-worthy answer.
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Ouch. OTOH, it's water under the bridge now.
Als
Als
Hello Gents.

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