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8:00 PM
@CatPlusPlus good games can come out of gamemaker too, see hotline miami
 
Yeah but why
why
 
Are there any decent SCUMM game makers?
 
Someone just linked me this ideone.com/Vrbt79
 
unfortunately, on the technical side, hm was mostly broken, and fixed months later
some options weren't even doing anything
@CatPlusPlus it may be that the devs behind hm didn't know much about programming
 
I only ever played one game on ScummVM
 
8:01 PM
but otherwise yeah, I agree with you
there are way more capable solutions out there
I really wish CryTek released some sort of ultra-limited version of their engine for people to try out and learn
I want to see how it is without paying 10 euros per month
 
Wasn't some CE free?
 
Q3 engine is what its about
 
I'll re-check but on Steam there's a single paid version
 
Also UT2000
 
Inform 7 is an interesting thing
 
user1804599
8:04 PM
Dammit.
 
user1804599
I just ate a cracker and now there are crumbs in my bellybutton.
 
Ahaha, speaking of terrible engines, I just remembered BYOND and how awful Space Station 13 code is
 
user1804599
Nothing can beat Greenfoot as worst engine ever.
 
I remember how Gothic 3 used to run at release
the only chance to run it somewhat decently at maximum details was the top tier 8800 GTX
 
I remember how Gothic 1 ran several years after the release :v
 
8:05 PM
man was that game broken
 
"Developed at the University of Kent"
figures
 
Gothic 1 ran fine for me, same for the 2nd
as long as I reduced the distance at which things were rendered
 
You guys remember the Doom 3 leaked Alpha
 
-1
Q: about type deduction when perfect-forwarding

Leonhart Squalltemplate<typename T> void foo(T&& a) { cout << is_rvalue_reference<T>::value << endl; } struct O { }; O o; foo(o); //T is deduced to o&,a is O& foo(std::move(o)); //T is deduced to O,a is O&& Hi,all. Is there any way to make foo output 1(T is deduced to O&&)?

close it down!
 
8:06 PM
if I put it on max, the framerate would break
 
Last Doom I played was 1
 
I played Doom 3 on the original Xbox
it was fun :D
 
should all answers tagged also be tagged as , btw?
 
I wish I was better at writing so I'd have an excuse to do something with Inform
 
8:07 PM
I wish I was there to experience how broken Daggerfall was at release
 
Doom 3 on Voodoo-2 sli'd
its like impressive hacking
 
I only played a later community-patched release
 
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus Inform?
 
I'm surprised anything worked on early SLI :v
 
SLI existed before nVidia?
man I suck for not knowing this
 
8:10 PM
They bought it from 3dfx
 
they were pretty much entirely different technologies
 
Ah nevermind
 
I can't remember, but I think they even stand for different things
 
I thought they bought the trademark
they do
 
@crasic well, they bought the entire company :P
 
8:11 PM
That makes more sense
3dfx sli would interleave scan lines between cards
 
meh, I guess $9 per month isn't that huge
after I get a GPU I'll just pay for 3 months or whatever is the minimum
and study the engine
 
Inform is a programming language and design system for interactive fiction originally created in 1993 by Graham Nelson. Inform can generate programs designed for the Z-code or Glulx virtual machines. Versions 1 through 5 were released between 1993 and 1996. Around 1996, Nelson rewrote Inform from first principles to create version 6 (or Inform 6). Over the following decade, version 6 became reasonably stable and a popular language for writing interactive fiction. In 2006, Nelson released Inform 7 (briefly known as Natural Inform), a completely new language based on principles of na...
 
hey cat
my longest function is 620 lines long
what you think of that
 
@DeadMG still shorter than what I saw in Arx Fatalis' sources
there were some huge behemoths in there
I'm surprised someone actually WORKED with those
 
@DeadMG Too long
@AlexM. I'd rather pay for UE4 and have access to the new UT
@AlexM. I raise you a 100kB C++ source file
NPC dot fucking cpp
 
8:15 PM
let me download dink smallwood's sources
I think I can beat that
 
@CatPlusPlus This one is 62kb.
 
I remember printing DinkC manual once
 
@FilipRoséen-refp No. But the questions should be!
 
I have a couple others that are 50kb, 45kb, 38kb
 
8:15 PM
That was a terrible experience on a ink printer :lol:
 
ah Parser.h is 68kb
 
I miss my 360 :(
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit erhm yeah, that's what I meant
 
user3010322
@LightnessRacesinOrbit What happened to it?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit alright, I guess I got something to keep me busy for a while
 
8:16 PM
@ThePhD It stayed home while I came away for a couple of days, and the hotel room doesn't come with one.
 
@ThePhD it drowned on during a school trip
 
@CatPlusPlus dink.cpp pastebin.com/KmwJ3DRs
 
@FilipRoséen-refp Are you serious?!
 
there's actually this one subroutine in that function that I'm gonna split up because it's unmanagable.
 
8:17 PM
176KB of the stuff
 
@DeadMG So you're gonna manage the unmanageable?
 
 if (chdir(crap2))
    {
        char crap[256];
        sprintf(crap, "Dink Error: Couldn't change to dir %s.  Why?", crap2);
        initFail(hWndMain, crap2);
        return(0);
    }
 
Seth says, "This is the Dink Smallwood source code, a pretty decent RPG/Adventure game basically untouched since it was created in 1997 except for a few bugfixes.

I always planned to go through and renovate it myself, but as time goes on, this seems less and less likely. I would just rather re-write then fix-up, especially when the project was my first ever windows game."
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit heck, why not? if every question should be tagged with [c++] if it has [c++11/03/1y].. I might as well do it
 
dat crap
 
8:17 PM
I wanted to rewrite GC too
 
@FilipRoséen-refp that'll take you decades
even I wouldn't go that far
 
Maybe one day
 
but by all means
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Actually, I say that it's 600 lines, but actually, ~550 of that most of the implementation is me adding ~20 lambdas to a container.
 
I'd check for meta posts on the topic, though; I bet it's been discussed before
 
8:18 PM
so it's more like 21 functions that are more like 30 lines each.
 
@CatPlusPlus What is this monstrosity?
 
@AlexM. At least it wasn't filled by shared_ptrs
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit a [feature-request] where questions tagged [c++11] would automatically be tagged [c++] might be a better thing..
@LightnessRacesinOrbit hmm, adding tags don't bump the question - right?
 
In Goblin Camp trying to follow any object lifetimes was nigh impossible
 
@FilipRoséen-refp yeah
 
8:19 PM
But dtors were used so there was a ton of bugs related to that :lol:
 
@FilipRoséen-refp should do
 
@MohammadAliBaydoun Gamedev in C++
 
dat NPC.cpp
 
Also MSVC C++0x
if (!item.lock()) {item = Game::Inst()->FindItemByCategoryFromStockpiles(Item::StringToItemCategory("Food"‌​), Position(), MOSTDECAYED | AVOIDGARBAGE);}
 
C++03. Very low level. std::vector<std::auto_ptr<T> >. Ownership. Must avoid?
 
8:20 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit then this is not a good idea.. I'll potentially bump so many questions that the whole community will be confused
 
> AVOIDGARBAGE
 
@FilipRoséen-refp yeah
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I'd rather use ptr_vector than auto_ptr
 
@CatPlusPlus There is no std::ptr_vector in C++03
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Why C++03?
 
8:21 PM
There's one in Boost, and if you ~~can't boost~~ then it's trivial to write
 
user1804599
@LightnessRacesinOrbit namespace std = boost; now there is.
 
FFS we kept old stupid garbage in C++11 because ERMAHERD BACKWARD COMPATIBILITY and you are telling me you can't move to C++11?
 
hmm
 
@rightfold import boost into std namespace.
 
dynamic_cast(void.pointer, t.pointer(null));.
return null? throw exception? UB?
 
user1804599
8:22 PM
namespace std { using namespace boost; }
 
but it might mess with adl and stuff
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked ADL is already a mess, so that doesn’t matter.
 
and ub of course
 
@AlexM. NPC::Think, 850 LOC :v
 
I've actually never, ever used this feature in C++
 
8:23 PM
@DeadMG null
 
so I have no idea what the behaviour is.
 
@DeadMG throw null
 
@Jefffrey No, I can't just port a decade old stable commercial project, and all four of its library dependencies, to c++11 on a whim, just because I'm extending some unit tests.
 
lol
 
user1804599
@DeadMG lolwot
 
user1804599
8:24 PM
Oh, is it Wide?
 
yeah
 
user1804599
I thought your naming convention was UpperCase.
 
like the horizon
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit what is there to port? C++11 is basically a superset of C++03
 
@CatPlusPlus How about if I put it this way, then: if I implement boost::ptr_vector<T> as std::vector<std::auto_ptr<T> >, will I get away with it?
@Jefffrey Er, binary compatibility of the runtime, for one
 
8:25 PM
@AlexM. My favourite thing is multithreaded pathing that constantly spawns and tears down threads (and thousands of crashes it caused)
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Eh, maybe
 
We'd have to do new builds and versions of actually everything
 
@rightfold So far, for language primitives I am using lowercase, and for library features I am using uppercase.
 
user1804599
Why is it a language primitive?
 
You probably still have to implement copy ctor yourself or delete it
 
what, pointers?
 
user1804599
8:25 PM
Dynamic casts.
 
copy's already deleted due to const members
 
because in order to implement dynamic cast you need RTTI and that is best implemented by the compiler.
 
@CatPlusPlus for the vector itself? or what?
 
why not make you implement your own vtables and shit too
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Copying auto_ptr do what moves do now
So yeah you have to deep clone them or something
 
8:26 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit If it takes less than 24 hours to do that, then do eet. It's worth it.
 
@CatPlusPlus yeah but how am I suppose to "implement copy ctor" in auto_ptr, and why would I wan tto?
this is the whole point of my question
 
If you want your ptr_vector to by copyable
 
what's wrong with just having the moves
right, well, I don't :)
ok
 
Then it should be fine
 
uncopyable std::vector<std::auto_ptr<T> > is fine and I'll put a big notice on it saying "DONT COPY, MOTHERFUCKER"
 
8:27 PM
you can base a library in C++03 around swaps.
this would be fine if the Committee had thought of it and used it.
 
it's only for one tiny little mock function. it's not crucial
 
user1804599
@DeadMG Can I use it like a function?
 
user1804599
For example foo(dynamic_cast).
 
not currently, but I can make that happen if I want to.
 
user1804599
Being able to partially apply cast operators would be nice.
 
user1804599
8:29 PM
E.g. xs.map(dynamic_cast(T)).
 
...
 
you can already just pass T.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Can't or won't
 
@crasic Either.
 
user1804599
How do you do operator overloading?
 
8:30 PM
I may get in trouble for (a) wasting a tremendous amount of company time, and (b) destabilising a product that has been stable for years, for no good reason whatsoever
 
user1804599
Currently in Styx compiler I have operator @ just be an identifier.
 
Livin on the edge
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit what do you estimate this "tremendous amount of company time" to be (in hours)? Also "no good reason whatsoever": that's not true and you know it.
And finally I don't see how you are going to destabilizing a product, like that. They explicitly made it so it won't.
 
C++11 has some breaking changes, but more importantly, upgrading compilers is a risk of ABI mismatches, deployment complications, and other fun stuff
 
@AlexM.
 
8:34 PM
@CatPlusPlus There's no ABI mismatches, except GCC 4.7.0 and MinGW 4.7 or so
 
COD next gen technology
 
If I had a C++ thing I wouldn't touch the environment ever either
 
@crasic wasn't that call of duty?
 
Hell, I have a Ruby thing and I don't want to touch it
 
@rightfold Currently, you can't explicitly call operator overloads, they're just a special syntax for declaring functions.
 
8:35 PM
And C++ is worse
 
user1804599
I just realised in Styx you can say val operator++ = 42, lol.
 
@AlexM. did you watch the whole thing
 
of course
it's old as fuck
 
goddamn it
 
the only thing older than that is... WAN MILLEON THROOOPS
 
8:37 PM
some birds are funny when they talk
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked Such as twitterers.
 
May 28 '13 at 19:13, by Etienne de Martel
 
@Jefffrey You're not listening. Cat, however, is.
 
possible, I'm just ranting over backward compatibility
 
8:38 PM
You simply don't fuck around with your versions of everything for absolutely no reason at all. We're doing no new feature work on this product. There is no reason for me to C++11 it and I'd be crazy to do so. I'd be adding risk of bugs for customers, support costs, deployment costs (we have physical boxes with this software at thousands of locations in data centres across the world)
Same reason we build it with GCC 4.3 - no need to furtle with that dev server. Ever.
We have better things to do (like our newer projects) than to put out any fires that we start for ourselves because we got fidgety and/or listened to the advice of Jefffrey!
Anyway there's no way in hell I'd be able to sell the support risk to management so it's moot
 
user1804599
IT WORKS DON’T TOUCH IT
 
always blaming jeffrey
 
builds on my box
 
plus, frankly there are no C++11 features I desperately need in that project
can get by just fine without
I do have an action to get a new build server running with GCC 4.9, but the fact that this new project shares dependencies with the old one makes that a little more complicated. Not hugely, but a little.
ooh, my phone just received Android 4.4.2->4.4.3 upgrade
 
8:46 PM
hmm
 
17
Q: How do I get hit by a car?

ZibbobzI'm playing the newly-updated 1.1 version of Goat Simulator. One of the new challenges in the game is to "Get hit by a car". I have mercilessly thrown my goat into every type of car and truck I could find, but to no avail. What department of goat do I need to register with in order to get rewa...

 
Arqade has the best question titles.
 
user1804599
Licked it.
 
This joke is old already
 
it says something unpleasant about my browsing history that "it" is enough to land me Itanium ABI reference
 
8:48 PM
Could be worse
 
@Mysticial Wait, that game is real?!
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit jefffrey's advices best advices
 
very yes
 
Might even be less overpriced now that they added more crap
 
8:48 PM
so is surgery simulator
which is hilarious
 
It's mostly YouTube fodder though
 
heh, fodder
 
Don't link to that guy tia
 
perque
 
All those facecam hyperactive YT guys are incredibly annoying
 
8:55 PM
0
Q: C preprocessor substitution and concatenation

George KourtisI am trying to define #define tokenBits 32 typedef inttokenBits_t Token; typedef int#tokenBits#_t Token; typedef int##tokenBits##_t Token; typedef int###tokenBits###_t Token; const tokenBase=numeric_limits<Token>::min() How should I define it in order to get typedef int32_t Token; Where is ...

 
user1804599
sed > CPP
 
@FilipRoséen-refp please add them to the question or make a new answer that provides an index that links to other answers. I would prefer not to have my answer edited to have such "there are shorter answers than this one, [here] and [there]." links
i wanted my answer to be as consensed and as helpful as possible. If I failed I would like to edit my answer later to shorten it and make it more helpful
We also have different interprations of the Standards text. For example in your answer, you state that T in your example is not among the dependent names. But in my answer I say that T is among the dependent names (even if it needs to be looked up also in the template definition to know it is a type)
 
9:11 PM
@JohannesSchaub-litb Answers that are only indexes linking to other answers? No, thanks.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit i wasn't saying they are good
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb You proposed it :P
 
i was saying it's less of an evil for me than putting the links into one of my answers
nono
 
OMG MY UNIT TESTS COMPILE
this has been a long day
 
i talked a bit imprecise
fortunately the committee seems to be approaching the inconsistent definition of "dependent name" in the spec these days to see how to improve it
It doesn't make sense that "A name that ... is dependent" has a different meaning than "A dependent name"
IMO
 
9:15 PM
sure
 
9:28 PM
Of course BB goes down when I have to find some things on it
Grump
 
fuck.
Cat, is the boost on teamcity 1.54?
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb the answers has already been added, stackoverflow.com/a/24101297/1090079 the one that I wrote to serve as a "easy-to-read" alternative to yours
 
Dunno, probably what's in Ubuntu repo
Also 'jeb'. Server is called 'jeb'
:v
 
hmm
 
Yeah 1.54
 
9:33 PM
I got a bunch of errors on TC about boost::optional not supporting move operators
but I don't see an update to it in the 1.55 change list anyway
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb an index-answer is actually a good idea, preferrably if it is made accepted. I'll see what @MSalters says about such idea since he's the "owner" of the question
 
There's a Boost PPA, so I can install 1.55 if you want
 
er
not right now, I might try to find out why 1.54 is failing if there's no change to it in 1.55
 
I'd say it's safe to have several versions side-by-side, but it's dpkg so probably not
Also dunno how well your crappy build system works with that :v
Maan I have to nuke this shit and install a decent distro
Expect extended downtime near the end of the month
 
hm
the boost::optional docs don't even mention move support.
I don't have a problem with it on Windows here
 
9:39 PM
Maybe it didn't get it yet
Maybe MSVC is broken again :v
 
lol
maybe it is, I don't see operator=(T&&) in the class or intellisense list.
I'll just revert my uses back to my own optional until I need debugging visualizers again
 
@CatPlusPlus "again" would imply it wasn't broken at some point
 
it's probably just as broken as Wide :P
 
@ScarletAmaranth Actually the opposite
 
@CatPlusPlus You're thinking of "still"
 
9:50 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit No, not really. Repeated discrete occurrences of breakage! :v
 
HA GET OWNED
All day and I wrote the intro section to the docs :cripes:
And not the entire one even
 
man
I want LLVM 3.5 so badly
they fixed a couple bugs that really annoy me personally
 
@FredOverflow that's a polish edition lol
@jalf No hangover, everything fine, electronic pass worked flawlessly. Thanks for asking :)
 
9:53 PM
No hangover? What sort of lame party was that
 
Also has anyone been to melakland lately?
@CatPlusPlus Dunno why, really, xeo forced (well okay didn't require much force) some Advocat in me at 5 am on sunday.
 
Uuuugh
 
surprisingly felt well after that
he even like, woke up before noon I think
dunno if you've been following the Slack
 
it's been hilarious at times.
 
@FilipRoséen-refp i've also changed my answer a bit
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit @Cat you missed hell of a ride in general, guys.
2
 
of course, now that I have competitors in the field
lol
 
Advocat is not a good thing to drink
 
we drank a lot of stuff that night
should ask @MartinJames really
 
9:55 PM
i'm a good drinker
 
7 hours ago, by Martin James
Hello everyone from the Lounge uncoference. I'm drunk in a bar near Brandenburg Gate, robot, cosh and xeo are in the bar next door playing zombie flux, and Bartek is MIA. He may, or may not, have made his flight. I'm bwtting on fail.
ahaha lol
too bad I didn't get to play zombies after all
 
reading through it now
jesus Martin is plastered
 
:D
 
When are you guys making another unconference that I can actually attend, because it isn't in the most crazy part of the semester? :D
 
9:57 PM
we're not cool enough for them now
 
@Griwes dunno when, but it's at Cat's place //cc @Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit nah, we were really sad that you didn't come.
especially melak, actually
 
That's what she said
 
we were basically like 10 minutes from him, but we weren't able to contact him at all
 
no way I dare venture to Cat's place
 
@BartekBanachewicz Huh, Wrocław? :D
 
9:59 PM
@Griwes I can't remember if he lives in Wrocław-Wrocław or Wrocław-somewhere close
 
Anywhere near Wrocław is good. :P
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit what does the runtime error mean?
any what() ?
 
I live in the centre
 

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