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16:00
I. Think. I. Fucking. Fixed. This.
@R.MartinhoFernandes inb4 crushing disappointment...
It works.
Now only two to go.
hm yeah but other than that the API looks funny enough
all the hard crap is done in the Studio anyway
the client has just play/stop really
I think I can wrap it reasonably.
I made a two beer mistake, plan was to put in a session tonight
Now I feel all Friday and forgot the laptop at work.
@JohanLarsson I know the Vice Bishops will be there, but there's a guest band with, supposedly, a cray-good keyboards guy, onf too.
16:03
band?
db sounds like pain
never heard of them but I'm not in the loop at all
WTF have I done with my editing now? I'm not even drunk...
dunno, I do that often, non-drunk
hmpfh, can I specialize unique_ptr for my type instead of fucking around with passing deleter instance if it's just a global function?
    class System {
        struct deleter {
            void operator()(FMOD::Studio::System* system) {
                system->release();
            }
        };

        std::unique_ptr<FMOD::Studio::System, deleter> system;
    };
I wrote it like this now
It's like now MSVC only knows two errors.
C2893 and the nonexistent C3544.
@R.MartinhoFernandes ICE and missing semicolon? :P
16:10
Not even ICEs.
@R.MartinhoFernandes speak for yourself :p
OMG It's like it is allergic to decltype.
umpfh
I am probably very bad right now
but assuming I create exception text dynamically, where do I create memory for it?
I understand that I shouldn't store std::string in my exception type.
Wait, now I got C2064 "term does not evaluate to a function taking 2 arguments"
so, in other words, how do I clear memory of the exception message?
16:20
Better than "term does not evaluate to a function taking -22 arguments", which I actually ran into some years ago.
@BartekBanachewicz storing a std::string is fine as long as you don't care about OOM errors
> Don't embed a std::string object or any other data member or base class whose copy constructor could throw an exception. That could lead directly to std::terminate() at the throw point. Similarly, it's a bad idea to use a base or member whose ordinary constructor(s) might throw,
@jalf that's what boost guide says ^
but I am inclined to trust you on that one, considering how many problems it solves :F
@BartekBanachewicz The terminate() call would be because the ctor throws std::bad_alloc and exceptception std::terminate()s.
void EX_ERRCHECK(FMOD_RESULT result) {
    if (result != FMOD_OK) {
        throw error("FMOD error" + std::to_string(result) + " - " + FMOD_ErrorString(result));
    }
}
this looks OK then.
@R.MartinhoFernandes OIC
@BartekBanachewicz For some values of
16:28
eh, this doesn't look good OTOH
System() {
    FMOD::Studio::System* temp = nullptr;
    EX_ERRCHECK(FMOD::Studio::System::create(&temp));
    system.reset(temp);
}
Why are you calling functions like macros
@CatPlusPlus because I am trying to take away a bit of the original API horribleness
@BartekBanachewicz Use Boost.Exception
@CatPlusPlus not worth it here
C++ is not worth it
But still
16:29
agreed.
well I dunno if I would be able to get Haskell FFI for that comparably fast
why am I programming again.
it's the same old story all over again
the world is made of terrible C APIs
We're dumb
7
@rightfold it's unfortunate that Happstack's documentation is basically non-existent for anything other than very basic stuff
user1804599
I never got further than the first few chapters of happstack.com/docs/crashcourse/index.html.
user1804599
Then I got bored, so I can’t tell much about it.
you just like it
user1804599
16:36
Well, I liked the chapters I read. :P
@EtiennedeMartel looks like WoW TCG raid decks
okey no
fuck no
I'm done
I'm not writing another C++ wrapper
Write an MSVC wrapper.
either Haskell or Lua
give me a random number
16:41
'But auditing OpenSSL is a daunting task: it has 429,699 lines of code according to a SLOCCount analysis, about 73 per cent of which is in C, and its code is, shall we say, non-trivial in places.'

Great.
@R.MartinhoFernandes MD5 from that is 0f51fc6751dcde1d4bb3760fcf465689
it's odd.
Haskell it is.
oh, look, a C# binding is provided too
oh look IT USES ENUMERATIONS WHO THE FUCK WROTE THE C++ API
LET ME KILL HIM WITH MY BARE HANDS
enums are so sexy
they basically take Haskell data types to a whole new level of awesomeness
and they are more strict too
for example enum Awesome { LittleAwesome, SuperAwesome }; is basically the same as data Awesome = LittleAwesome | SuperAwesome.
Eh what
What's more strict
Sorry, I'm delirious
I just can't parse that
Xeo
Xeo
16:50
@thecoshman Guess what I'm eating at the moment
@Xeo cookies
@Xeo I GOT FUCKING BLINKED AGAIN
But yes C++ enum is really primitive sum type
@thecoshman You got what
Xeo
Xeo
plinked
there was a staring contest?
Xeo
Xeo
16:51
@thecoshman So then, guess.
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus FUCKING BLINKED AGAIN
I'm back to C2893.
Will this ever end?
Clocks are stable, so this isn't a nightmare :(
Xeo
Xeo
@Jefffrey enum class plx
@Xeo but that would create a namespace that Haskell has not :c
Xeo
Xeo
Haskell also has no implicit conversions to Int
vOv
16:56
Haskell also has constructors
user1804599
Haskell has a type system, unlike C++.
@thecoshman That's not what he's eating.
Ok, do you think it's possible at all to write is_callable with MSVC?
Xeo
Xeo
nope
MSVC doesn't do expression SFINAE right
Xeo
Xeo
it doesn't catch cases 3-5 for INVOKE or something like that, IIRC
17:00
@BartekBanachewicz, did you actually do some web dev with Haskell by any chance?
@Xeo Case 5 is "in all other cases"
Are you sure?
Xeo
Xeo
maybe it was just 3 & 4
fact is, it fails some of them
But it can sort of work, right?
Xeo
Xeo
actually, you don't quite need expression SFINAE for is_callable, do you?
I no longer know what I'm doing.
@Xeo How else?
Xeo
Xeo
17:03
You have either a function pointer, member pointer, or a functor
you can test for the first two
And those are the least interesting of all.
Xeo
Xeo
I think it gets the general decltype(sfinaed_fun(...)) right at least
Without the latter, it's really not worth it.
Xeo
Xeo
true
Yeah, ignore me, I'm preoccupied with SpeedRunners
@Xeo Empirical evidence collected today says "no".
Xeo
Xeo
17:05
good luck
@R.MartinhoFernandes hahaha
holy sheet yesod is basically rails
it's the "don't type code" framework
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hm, seems to work with a small test, in VC11
@CatPlusPlus RAGE
Rails is the "fuck everyone involved in this project and the language that powers this pile of shit" framework
I don't know anymore.
There, I lost it.
I officially flipped out.
17:13
Nipple salads?
And I still need to merge my boss's changes.
@CatPlusPlus yes
Who the fuck's ringing the bell.
user1804599
Are ACCU talks available online?
is there research on how big quality problem merging is?
Xeo
Xeo
I think Robots kinda hates today
0
Q: How to check the existence of a static function

GillesI'd like to check if a static method exists with specified parameters. I found a solution that works only for non static functions (with msvc-2013 and mingw32-gcc 4.8.1). template<typename T, typename Res, typename... Args> class HasFunc { template <typename U, Res (U::*)(Args...)> struct Ch...

People really don't like to search, do they?
@Xeo Fuck today's favourite colour.
Xeo
Xeo
Also, since the Pirate doesn't want to guess: I'm nomming Piratos right now
user1804599
@AndyProwl I’m reading the book again.
17:28
@rightfold Use cases?
user1804599
Yeah. I’m at page 129 now, and it starts feeling like the introduction is over.
lol
How many pages does it have?
user1804599
524.
OK, that's manageable
user1804599
This chapter is about architecture from a more concrete PoV.
user1804599
17:30
Previous chapters were much more abstract.
I'd throw up after 10
@rightfold What I would be afraid of would be to find lots of "soft" sentences with hardly understandable meaning that are not really mapped into concrete techniques
Transistor, The Next Game From Bastion's Creators, Is Out Next Month kotaku.com/…
woot, neat
Usually what I like of Robert Martin is that he can make pretty good connections between the abstract part and the concrete part
But I read for instance Use Cases 2.0 by Ivar Jacobson, and I haven't really understood much
It sounds like he's not talking about programming at all
Xeo
Xeo
@AlexM. Nice
17:33
But Martin recommends Jacobson's approach to architecture so I'm curious about that book you're reading
user1804599
@AndyProwl This book is about use cases dictating the design of the program (which makes sense—the point of a program is allowing users to achieve their goals).
user1804599
I’m not sure what book you are referring too (and I’ve never read it).
It's not actually a "book", it's more of a long manifesto (link: ivarjacobson.com/download.ashx?id=1282)
I've spent the entire day second-guessing the compiler.
@rightfold Does he also get to the concrete design (not necessarily code, but at least diagrams with classes and relationships)?
user1804599
17:35
I don’t know, but I think I am just about to read that part.
(something like Uncle Bob's EBI / clean architecture)
@rightfold ah, all right
user1804599
He starts talking about entities, interfaces and control objects now.
OK, seems like it's going that direction then
17:41
ah crap
I hate it when a test fails on TeamCity but passes locally.
i thought you would say "ah crap, he's right. it's a bug in the spec that it doesn't forbid programs to do it"
#Work smarter
@DeadMG That's a sign that your implementation is broken :v
@CatPlusPlus It's mostly talking about technologies I don't know, but what's wrong with the idea of use-case driven architecture / EBI?
yeah I figure that
but considering that the test in question is "Unpleasant ABI details"... :P
17:45
It looks exactly like MVC, except somewhat more complicated for whatever reason (yes, changing create method on a controller to Create class that's ~~a use case~~ seems really useful)
user1804599
It does not have to be a class.
user1804599
It can be a function or w/e.
well I guess that I always wanted to fix up my test driver, now's the time, it's always possible that it's just a bad capitalization in including a C++ header or somesuch
I don't understand MVC (like, I tried multiple times, I don't understand what's what) so I can't understand your answer.
17:46
I'm going by github.com/qertoip/guru_watch/wiki/Real-World-Benefits since it's apparently the only thing on the web that actually implements this crap
I'm interested because I'm considering to implement that crap too and that crap sounds reasonable to me
And none of those things seem like they need a completely different architecture, or are just plainly unnecessary (who changes frameworks on a project :lol:)
user1804599
You swap your framework for a test.
That's dependency inversion and has nothing to do with high-level architecture
Also "enjoy true TDD without hacky workarounds" [citation needed]
user1804599
You don’t want to perform an HTTP request and parse the resulting HTML to find out whether data was processed correctly.
17:48
"isolation from ActiveRecord allows you to plug memory-based persistence backend" DI again
user1804599
DI is a way of doing this.
@rightfold Mocking. Direct calls. What
do you like mocking Cat?
user1804599
But you need to separate the stuff otherwise DI will still not help shit.
I wouldn't change framework perhaps, but I do have a situation where I'd like to have different GUIs for the same "application"
17:49
Seriously all of those things you can have with MVC
This is literally MVC only formulated in a different way
CVM
@JohanLarsson I love mocking Cat
"easier to swap MVC framework " :lol: who the fuck ever does that
(This is "real world benefits", mind you)
@LightnessRacesinOrbit :) my english is good enough on rare good days
If my understanding is correct, MVC is a way of organizing UIs, not entire applications
I don't like mocks much, they solve a problem but also indicate it imo.
17:51
Also this has a funny gem in the answers programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/149656/…
There is a parallel yes, but they're different things
> I ended up taking the whole thing as good inspiration for what an architecture should ideally be rather than a strict guideline or gospel truth
No kidding
~patterns~ rot brains seriously
2
@AndyProwl Uh
View is UI
Model is data. Controller is business logic. That's an entire application
user1804599
Where is the HTTP request handling?
user1804599
View?
Hm. But I can realize the same use cases with different GUIs
user1804599
17:54
And where is the storage?
And one of the GUI may use MVC framework
So in the context of that GUI front-end, I might be using MVC, but at the "application" level (where by application I mean the whole system), my business logic lies somewhere else
@rightfold Runtime. Framework. Whatever, it doesn't matter
And I can have several front-ends for realizing the same use cases
user1804599
> That's an entire application
user1804599
So which of view, model and controller are runtime and framework part of?
17:58
It doesn't matter for the application
It's names
I don't know how to explain this
But the problem seems to be that you need to have "PATTERN SAYS THIS THEREFORE EXACTLY THIS" and not treat this nonsense as general guidelines?? idk
in Lounge<Kerbal>, 51 secs ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
I refuse to believe that whatever additional changes my boss did magically merged with my haphazard attempts at shoving this down MSVC's throat and now just work.
Dammit.
@JohanLarsson ;)
@CatPlusPlus I don't see anything funny
@rightfold one layer up. in my case it's coupled with invocation of the Controller
@AndyProwl Depends what you mean by "UI". MVC is a way of organising a UI if you take that to include both the front-end and the back-end. Usually that includes "business logic".
If your MVC only describes the view then it's not MVC. It's V.
But your UI may be only a part of your overall system. The system I've been architecting lately has a control daemon and a web GUI; the web GUI is MVC'd. There is business logic both in the GUI's C and in the control service. (And the model is shared by both — hurray C++ web coding!)
18:16
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Perhaps you're right, I don't know. This stuff really confusing. For instance unless I'm badly mistaken, Uncle Bob says explicitly that the "M" in MVC is not business classes and the "C" is not business logic
appeal to authority: "Uncle Bob".
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I quoted it
@DeadMG I'm not appealing to authority
15 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
But the problem seems to be that you need to have "PATTERN SAYS THIS THEREFORE EXACTLY THIS" and not treat this nonsense as general guidelines?? idk
@AndyProwl I don't know who "Uncle Bob" is and, frankly, I don't care
I am always right
18:21
I see
8 mins ago, by Lightness Races in Orbit
@CatPlusPlus I don't see anything funny
I think the main problem is the fixation on prefixing everything with "business". Every single line of code in my application has something to do with "business". So the distinction between a "business model" and a "non-business model" does not exist.
I guess you could claim that something localised like UI authentication is not "business logic". I wouldn't.
Though I could well be misunderstanding how people use that term: I've never looked into it much.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Implies the good poster takes things like that as gospel usually. ~~patterns~~
@CatPlusPlus ok
If that were in any way uncommon among the stupid people then I might find it a little more humourous
But it's hard to find it funny when 90% of programmers make the same mistake
I always find joy in laughing at stupid people
So, if I like trying to disambiguate the different meanings people give to MVC and wish to come up with a good way of mapping between them, if I think it makes sense to distinguish "business logic" from "UI stuff", and I like finding / discovering architectural ~~patterns~~, I'm stupid?
18:28
quick how many characters are there in 128 bits of hex, excluding prefix
@LightnessRacesinOrbit 16
eh close enough
wait why isn't it 16
what have I done
oh cock
18:29
What's wrong?
I've been over-padding for days, haven't I
Ah, the smell of weed at Kotti. Why am I not surprised.
32-bit is FFFF
64-bit is FFFFFFFF
128-bit is FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Because hex has 200% overhead
16 bytes is 32 hex characters
A far more accurate way of phrasing my question would be "how has this been working with 32 of them this whole time?"
@CatPlusPlus ah, yes
32-bit is 0xFFFFFFFF
I need to stop fucking up
thanks Cat
I always think of 32-bit as 0xFFFF (wrongly)
@EtiennedeMartel ew
@EtiennedeMartel Gross.
It's fine Canadian cuisine!
I think I missed my stop again.
15 minutes left to take a shower and a 20-minute trip. I can do this.
user1804599
@EtiennedeMartel Yum, looks tasty.
18:49
@BartekBanachewicz sure, but in what cases might constructing a std::string throw? I only know of one case, when you run out of memory. So as I said, if you don't care about OOM scenarios, std::string won't throw (in any cases you care about), which means it can be safely stored in an exception (in all cases you care about)
I'm more inclined to terminate program on OOM errors anyway
Some friendly moron marked my lvm2 bug reported in 2009 as dupe, namely of his own bug > 3 years younger. <baffled/>
> @Anderson The fact that "it's happening here" doesn't make this a dupe. In fact, it makes /that/ a dupe of this one, ~3 years OLDER.

> I'd like to have the record show that this bug is ancient so we can measure the level of neglect.

> $0.02
[2009 lvm2 bug report, unresolved](https://bugs.launchpad.net/lvm2/+bug/360237)
Off out - have fun!
@sehe I concur
19:06
Funny how that markdown showed up ok previously. I blame SE chat :)
@Rapptz It's just a shitton of meat on top of fries and cheese, with gravy on top of all that.
user2836797
What does the anti-c++11 tag mean? Furthermore what is this anti-lounge
@R.MartinhoFernandes you keep using that word
@thecoshman What, Canadian?
@blindsamuel Hello you too, stranger
You'll find out quickly what all the "anti" is about if you barge in demanding explanations. We live here. We don't have to do explanations :)
user1804599
19:15
We are anti-noobs.
room topic changed to Lounge<C++11>: Vivo estas tro mallonga por lerni la germanan. loungecpp.net [anti-c] [hello-you-too] [no-helpdesk]
@thecosh what word?
@rightfold Who's "we"?
@R.MartinhoFernandes 'cuisine'
19:32
It's French.
And because French food is much better than English food, they get to pick the word.
any cuisine with lots of cheese in it is great
19:52
cheesy conversation here
you mean puny
20:16
Could be a loud one tonight. Two drumset and cabs up to the top of the door suppliers.
wow 10 minutes and counting to install snap
Also, fuck predictive text.
user1804599
20:41
@StackedCrooked dat pun
user1804599
@Jefffrey dat pun
user1804599
What happened to Tony?
user3010322
Got a real life.
user3010322
I have to write a TED Talk.
user3010322
I think I'm going to do it about C++.
user3010322
20:45
And what I learned while programming a game engine.
user1804599
user3010322
It has to be a 3-5 minute talk though.
user3010322
I'm not sure I can really... enthuse people about C++ in 3-5 minutes.
user3010322
In fact, I feel like I'd just make them want to go somewhere else.
rightfold I'm putting in a sympathy session tomorrow
user1804599
20:51
What is a sympathy session?
you are gonna grind this weekend right?
I'm doing the same so you are not alone
21:07
Anyone 'round these parts know about a good N64 emulator? I'm planning to live stream a LP of Majora's Mask but I lost my original cartridge and I'm too lazy to get a capture card anyway.
user3010322
Project 64, I guess?
user3010322
There's uh
user3010322
Also Amarek?
user3010322
Oh, wait
user3010322
That's a capture system, not an emulator I believe
user3010322
21:09
Uh. So yeah. Project 64.
P64 works perfectly
my favorite :)
user1804599
user1804599
lol, what an idiot.
user1804599
Look at his “questions.”
FWIW, it's certainly useful to know why banging your head against the wall hurts. That information could be used to say: diagnose that banging your head on the wall is why your head hurts. — Mysticial 35 secs ago
Xeo
Xeo
21:25
So, SpeedRunners is in the Humble Weekly Sale, for $6. Get it. Great game.
user3010322
21:40
Blah.
user3010322
I have no idea what to do a TED Talk on that'd be informative or helpful to others.
user1804599
Demonstrate cowboy casting.
var meh = fuu as Meh;
meh.Derp;
^ pretty common dumb, trading a useful exception for an nre
user1804599
21:49
Time to sleep. Bye bye.
know what would be cool? :D an indie shooter a la Painkiller
with humongous bosses
the bosses in painkiller were absurd(ly awesome)
@EtiennedeMartel just you :|
Oh wow. Re. Couldfront Challenge
> Rumor around the office is that "somebody who knows somebody over at Google" says that the scuttlebutt over there is that Google engineers have been monitoring traffic across their private networks, placing 'tag' data in the stream, then looking for this tag data moving across other networks using stealth taps of their own.
22:37
Good band tonite, and I could have scored. What a stunning young girl! We talked for an hour non-stop, about music and life. The downside - I'm married and Sarah is 11yo. Still, it was fun!
xD
Sweet dreams
is below code.. does deserialization MyData cloned; std::istringstream iss(oss.str()); { boost::archive::text_iarchive ia(iss); ia >> cloned; } — user3382670 3 mins ago
You just figure it out, OP <face-palm/>
> @Brian Funny. You think three months to triage is long? Well, I reported this very bug in April 2009... https://bugs.launchpad.net/lvm2/+bug/360237

Your move :)
I just posted that at launchpad. Too vile?
23:11
'URGENT', gets 'Irritating' badge, needs downvotes immediate!
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/23023281/c-c-urgent-querry
OTOH, it's a 'Member for today' troll.
@MartinJames looks like a desperate guy at a test
some of my colleagues take pics of the subjects and post them on facebook hoping someone will help them lol
23:25
3
Q: Multiple inheritance makes private member accessible

chuck1class A { public: int a; }; class B: private A { }; class C: public A { }; class D: public B, public C { D() { B::a = 0; } }; This compiles even though B privately inherits A. If I remove D's inheritance of C, the compiler says a is inaccessibl...

^^ Isn't GCC 4.4 kinda like... old?
23:39
@AlexM. lolz
Btw don't you think the tag is useless?

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