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00:00
Someone's using this as an example for how unreadable C++ is :v
it's 99% C.
user1804599
@Rapptz dat code
user3010322
@Rapptz Wha thteholy fucking shit is that
Some game.
user3010322
HOly shit
00:03
whoever wrote it is pretty awful though
user3010322
All the extern variables in the world
user3010322
do they control the whole game like a script?
user3010322
Just set a bunch of states and then call some functions?
user3010322
Jesus christ!
extern extern extern
user1804599
00:04
@ThePhD Yeah, it’s even worse than your code.
:| why does my computer science teacher still give out paper and not put the assignments online?
Because your boss will do the same thing.
@Crow To punish those who do not attend.
@ciphermagi lol
00:09
that's so stupid
So is everything else in life
user1804599
@Crow why ask us?
I think I just joined Lounge<Philosophers>
2
user1804599
Ask the guy himself.
welp, wrong room
00:12
@rightfold You assume it's a guy. Best crypto programmer I've ever met teaches, and she's been teaching for years.
I think I'll ask my individual development (dunno how to translate this; it's basically one project we have to do by ourselves over the course of a semester) professor if she's aware of the fact that she looks like a retarded duckling during the labs
guy can be gender neutral.
"himself"
she's a 20-something PhD student trying to have the same influence over students as a 50-something professor
for some reason I skipped that
00:13
and getting mad when she fails
But there really isn't a gender neutral word (can't remember real name) in English, right?
"They" is not grammatically correct when it is used to refer to both genders
yes there are
Like what?
"your prof"
No, in the form of his or her
00:15
No, there's no gender-neutral gender-specific word in English.
Or he and she
Something that English is lacking
"ask him for his opinion" => "ask them for their opinion"
In French, I think males hold dominance on gender choosing
"is he okay?" => "are they okay?"
"them" isn't grammatically correct in English apparently
Neither is "they"
00:15
what?
When referring to gender neutral
are you ESL?
No, I'm talking about formal
wait let me check I may be wrong
there are grammatical gender neutral pronouns in English
Gender-neutral language is a form of linguistic prescriptivism that aims to minimize assumptions about the gender or biological sex of people referred to in speech or writing. This article discusses aspects of gender neutrality as they relate to the English language. Rationale Proponents of gender-neutral language argue that the use of gender-specific language often implies male superiority or reflects an unequal state of society. According to The Handbook of English Linguistics, generic masculine pronouns and gender-specific job titles are instances "where English linguistic convention ha...
From here it says that "they" is not accepted by most English professors
00:17
@Rapptz He's looking for a gender neutral pronoun that's also gender specific. It doesn't exist; not in any language.
Wait what
@Descrip Did you read?
It says singular they
that's like saying "is they okay" which is grammatically retarded
Oh I missed that
in order to achieve gender neutrality in the sentence with they (and its other forms) you have to turn the sentence plural
it's silly, I guess
it's probably why there exists some forms of slang to make it less awkward to refer to a single person
A gender-specific pronoun is a pronoun associated with a particular gender, such as a pronoun denoting female or male. Examples include the English third-person personal pronouns he and she. A gender-neutral pronoun, by contrast, is a pronoun that is not associated with a particular gender, and that does not imply male or female. Most English pronouns are gender-neutral, including they (in both plural and singular uses). Many of the world's languages do not have gender-specific pronouns. Others, however – particularly those which have a pervasive system of grammatical gender (or have ...
00:20
Or...you could just change the pronoun away from gender-specific examples, i.e. 'your professor', 'the teacher', etc.
"It" and "one" as well
But pronouns exist for easier usage
no one uses "One"
well, not in non-formal speak.
Apparently there was a gender specific pronoun in English
But it lost popularity over time
there are gender specific pronouns in every language
"One" is a very, very, very specific form of third person self-reference only to be used in a circumstance which never happens in casual conversation.
00:21
"Ou" as in "Ou will speak"
That's my point, there is no informal gender neutral pronoun
Well there isn't now
look up generic you
You couldn't use 'one' ever for that. It's self-referential.
One does not simply use "one" as a pronoun in non-formal conversion.
@ciphermagi What?
But that is for an unspecified person
Not really gender neutrality
And I was looking for a pronoun
00:23
The word "one" refers to itself. It causes itself to become both object and subject, and invalid in most cases.
Er.
It's just a formal form of generic "you".
Eh, forget what I said
I was just wondering off of my mind
English is hard.
robot
did I tell you about my new and improved medical troubles?
@Rapptz That's what she said.
00:25
@ciphermagi What's the object in "One can easily drive cars"?
Which object, direct or indirect?
That sentence doesn't make any sense.
my doctor wants to cut out my gallbladder because he's got no other ideas.
@ciphermagi it does
00:26
Also rapptz, plural "they" can't be used
yeah
Woah
@Descrip they is plural
Tell him to get some ideas. You don't cut out someone's organs because "that's all that's left."
00:26
did I mention that this can have permanent horrible side effects for digestion?
@ciphermagi You lost any credibility you had.
@Descrip There's only one.
the only thing worse than living like I am now would be living like I am now plus horrible chronic lack-of-gallbladder syndrome.
But as in "Annie talked to the professor" to "They talked to the professor"
@ciphermagi You're thinking of numerical one?
like "One of them was bad" or "One is rotten"
00:28
Still not "self-referential", still not subject and object at the same time.
One is just the formal generic "you"
"One can easily drive" => "You can easily drive"
@Rapptz That's a portion of it. However "One can easily drive cars" indicates that a single person can drive more than one vehicle...simultaneously.
@ciphermagi There's nothing to base any ideas on.
But the generic you cannot be used as a pronoun
generic you is a pronoun
00:28
all my tests have come back with either nothing or virtually nothing.
@ciphermagi There's no notion of simultaneity in my sentence.
For third person
I mean, I could ask for a second opinion, but that hypothetical second doctor would be opining on what evidence?
@ciphermagi Even if there was it's irrelevant.
Like in "his" or "her"
00:29
@ciphermagi Nonsense can be grammatically correct.
"Two plus two is five"
One is a pronoun in the English language. It is a gender-neutral, indefinite pronoun, meaning roughly "a person". For purposes of verb agreement it is a third-person singular pronoun, although it is sometimes used with first-person reference. It is more or less equivalent to the French pronoun on, the German man, and the Spanish uno. However in English it has quite formal connotations, and is often avoided in favor of more colloquial alternatives such as generic you. The word one as a numeral can also be put to use as a pronoun, as in one was clean and the other was dirty, and can form pro...
@DeadMG I have digestive problems, too. Get 'em to check for allergies to food, especially yeast, corn, and potatoes.
oh come on
@Rapptz Yeah, there it is, but formal
I've been sick for years.
they've checked.
00:30
That was my problem.
the "cars" in that sentence is overreaching, it doesn't mean 2 or more cars simultaneously. It just means you can drive pretty much any car.
And if they didn't put you on a diet excluding all corn, including corn starch, corn yeast, any processed food, any packaged food, any restaurant food, any meats, etc, then they didn't check for corn.
He's been on a diet of almost nothing for a while.
They found my corn allergy when I was eating rice and peanuts for six months.
Even eating animals which were fed corn makes me react.
Woah
I feel lucky for not having any allergies
00:34
That allergy's nothing. It's just a lot of gas, sometimes painful.
I ignore it frequently.
The only food I really avoid is tomatoes. Those make my digestive system bleed.
what do parenthesis usually imply in set theory? E.g.: (A subset B)
Goddammit. MSVC crashes when I try to make a member function pointer to a templated member function.
btw: Your wikipedia article was written by a person who cited only one article, and that article was written by a sophomore in college.
I don't really like the new C++ FAQ. The tone is kinda annoying.
@Crow tuples are the only thing that come to mind
@ciphermagi Totally discredited :v
00:38
tuples like... immutable sets...?
@ciphermagi You've never written essays in English?
@ciphermagi Did you miss the OED reference?
@Crow no, like an ordered pair, e.g. (10, g)
@ciphermagi Which article?
@Rapptz I mean like the python type of version. [(1,2,3), (2,4,6)]
00:41
same shit dude
In mathematics, computer science, linguistics, and philosophy a tuple is an ordered list of elements. In set theory, an (ordered) n-tuple is a sequence (or ordered list) of n elements, where n is a non-negative integer. There is only one 0-tuple, an empty sequence. An n-tuple is defined inductively using the construction of an ordered pair. Tuples are usually written by listing the elements within parentheses "(\text{ })" and separated by commas; for example, (2, 7, 4, 1, 7) denotes a 5-tuple. Sometimes other delimiters are used, such as square brackets "[\text{ }]" or angle brackets "\...
@Rapptz But how is that used in something like (A subset B)?
I don't know.
The creation of the tuple?
Nah
I wish we had latex in chat
Too many new programmers are too lazy to learn latex.
00:44
it's not usually needed
It would be better for the experience programmers
I don't see a value in latex
I use it cause I like it and it looks pretty
Its like bolding. Along with that, it allows you to input text like how you would write it for example in mathematics
I <3 latex. It makes things so easy. One of my calculus classes and three of my CSE classes we had to type our work. I can't imagine trying to do that in like...ooffice.
00:46
How much effort would it take to implement latex in a chatroom like this?
@Rapptz TIL about sextuple.
@Descrip Minimal since they already have an implementation in their code.
@Descrip They already use mathjax on other sites.
they removed the ignored tags? just hide them
00:48
I don't think I understand how to do proofs :| the logic behind why this is true seems obvious, but I don't really understand how to "phrase" it.
...
What proof?
I don't think of it like that.
The way I see it is that if you cannot explain it, you don't fully understand it
Exposition is an orthogonal skill.
@Descrip Nah.
00:50
@Crow What kind of proof are you looking at?
@Crow Is there more to the expression than just $(A\subset B)$?
I don't think you can mathematically prove why 1 + 1 = 2 but you still understand it.
False. You can't graduate as a math minor from NMT if you can't prove that.
They won't let you out of Basic Concepts.
@ciphermagi b - a [proper subset] b (intersect) a
why can't you prove that 1+1 is 2 ?
00:51
Number system and counting
i'm sure it will follow from some algebraic group or something
@JohannesSchaub-litb It can't be proved because of Gödel's incompleteness theorem.
i don't know about the gödel things
@Crow That's false. E.g. let b be nonempty and let a be empty
Well, let's say excluding axioms
00:53
i can only remember the "gödel" numbering of turing machines
@KarlKronenfeld but it says "prove for all sets A, B, and C:" ... am I reading that as they're saying it's right?
@ciphermagi Sounds like bs m8.
i will prove it!
@Crow Yeah, they're probably claiming it is true. Where's C in your expression?
1 + 1 = 2 => 2 = 2 QED.
00:54
@JohannesSchaub-litb Principia Mathematica already tried :P. It took them something like ~250 pages.
i guess i will win some prize now
@KarlKronenfeld it's a large set of problems
Back in the 1910s.
@Rapptz It's the reason I dropped my minor.
00:55
@Crow Oh, ok. And b-a is the set difference right? I mean {x in b : x (notin) a}
@KarlKronenfeld makes sense yeah
@Rapptz does that mean that someone clever some day could show that 1 + 1 != 2 ?
@Rapptz Why not? It just depends on what axioms you're allowed to use.
@Crow Yeah, then the statement is false. Just give a counterexample like the one I provided.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Cause 1 + 1 = 2 is a type of axiom that depends on the assumption of it being definite. You can try (like Principia Mathematica did) but at the end of the day you'll need some form of arithmetic (such as +) in your axioms and you wouldn't be able to prove it.
00:57
i fear that from today on i have to write in before all my proofs "assuming that n + 1 = next(n)"
@KarlKronenfeld what is the strategy for proofs, exactly? What's allowed and not?
@Crow You are allowed to use logic however you like. :) I'd probably be more helpful if you gave a specific example.
+ is a really really basic building block that I don't think will ever be able to be proven IMO
A pdf that I found the other day
What's wrong with:
succ(x) = x + 1
1 + 1 = succ(1) = 2?
00:59
is this a form of pedantry? :v
that looks like a proof
+ can be defined in many circumstances. So proving 1+1=2 in some areas is trivial and in others is nontrivial.

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