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11:01
@TonyTheLion under your bed
@FilipRoséen-refp It can be irrelevant precisely because everybody can simply and easily solve the problem by doing exactly what they would do if it did not exist. The same as export template was fundamentally irrelevant.
@BoltClock ahhh, that explains everything
those noises at night were kinda creepy
@DeadMG so to sum up your opinion; "gibberish and impossible constraints in the standard should not be fixed".
@TonyTheLion That was me, sorry. Turns out you cannot teach a cat how to play the violin.
@Zeta No, that was me
11:03
@FilipRoséen-refp You got that wrong. DeadMG's opinion is this: "you're wrong and I'm right."
Now that's awkward
@TonyTheLion that's always his opinion which makes it redundant to write it out explicitly
@FilipRoséen-refp My opinion is that the Committee should spend their time on actual problems that actually affect users.
@DeadMG and.. "leave gibberish and impossible constraints in the Standard that renders a lot of the Standard unusable, let's continue have a broken specification.. users don't care"
wicked.
11:06
all specifications of non-trivial complexity are broken
the only question is by how much and what the implications are.
this is not even non-trivial.. it's one sentence that fucks things up, easy to both explain and to resolve
and if the implications are "None", then the Committee should call it a lucky break and a win and go deal with something whose implications are not "None".
user1804599
@TonyTheLion dat song name.
user1804599
But sorry, I have Flash nor audio on this machine.
the implications are "None" because it has a "no diagnostic required" (and that this often means that vendors don't spend time diagnosing it), but the problem is still that the standard says that such constructs are ill-formed.
I'm not saying that a diagnostic should be issued, rather that the whole section is rewritten/removed.
11:09
hallo
@FilipRoséen-refp And since the problem has no implications, we should move on.
@DeadMG it has implications; using such construct is ill-formed, no matter if vendors refuse to compile your application or not.
the letter of the spec is irrelevant.
what matters is what implementations implement.
again, cue export templates and other such things.
@DeadMG are you equally open-minded about cases where compilers don't diagnostic ODR violations?
you are pretty desperate to stretch my argument to cases where it does not apply.
11:11
room topic changed to Lounge<Irrelevant++>: Just irrelevant discussions to irrelevant subjects. loungecpp.net [c++] [c++11] [c++1y] [c++-faq]
it boils down to the same thing; it's important even if the compiler doesn't diagnostic it
@rightfold surely you've heard of this song?
well, that's not really true
@DeadMG certainly not, but reading the backlog of what you've written I might throw the same argumentation your way
because the overwhelming likelihood is that if you violate ODR in any serious fashion either the linker will catch it or your program will fail at run-time.
the user still has a problem regardless of whether or not the compiler catches it.
in this case though, they do not have a problem.
user1804599
11:13
@TonyTheLion yes.
user1804599
I never listen to SOAD.
user1804599
Maar tjaptjoi is wel fucking lekker.
@DeadMG ... let's just agree to disagree, if I get around to write a DR on the matter I'll ping you (as well as giving you a proper shout-out in it).
why bother?
I couldn't care less if you file a DR or not.
@rightfold oic
11:16
@DeadMG I didn't say that you should bother, and what bothers me should be completely up to.. *drum roll* me.
I'm merely pointing out that you will be notifying me of an event of which I do not care.
which would appear to be rather pointless
@DeadMG plonk it.
@DeadMG Just let him ping you -> ignore message. Problem solved.
@Jefffrey agreed.
user1804599
Blewrg, paracetamol.
11:21
@rightfold dat shit is crazy man
you go high all the way
user1804599
You don't go high from paracetamol.
So, looks like I found my serial downvoter:
@sehe there WAS a very specific answer to that question. using namespace ph; qi::rule<string::const_iterator,std::string(), asc::space_type> any_string; any_string %= as_string [lexeme[+(asc::char_ - asc::space)]]; r = phrase_parse(first, last, (any_string[ph::ref(stationFromContents) = _1] >> "LATITUDE" >> double_[ph::ref(lat) = _1] >> "LONGITUDE" >> double_[ph::ref(lon) = _1] >> "ALTITUDE" >> double_[ph::ref(alt) = _1] >> "M"), asc::space); What's unclear about "I want to extract a textual part of string into variable in Boost Spirit"? — Askar Ibragimov 10 mins ago
Lolwut. The question doesn't even mention "LATITUDE" or "LONGITUDE", let alone that you're going to parse doubles. It was overly broad. Spirit Qi is an entire library that doesn't do anything other than "extract a textual part of string into variable". The word for that is parsing. Welcome to Stack Overflow. — sehe 51 secs ago
Also added even constructive, substantial ideas stackoverflow.com/questions/22439610/…
user1804599
I'm wondering.
I've stopped wondering a long time ago.
user1804599
Man.
user1804599
11:29
I want Chinese food but the fridge is 15km away.
@StackedCrooked yep. Just ran out of time and ended up with bugs and no numbers displayed :v
user1804599
What is it with all the noobs today.
11:37
It's Monday
user1804599
Usually I like Mondays, but this one sucks.
user1804599
lol
user1804599
Nu snap ik waar de uitspraak "zo ziek als een hond" vandaan komt. DeadMG is een hond.
> Since the mid-1990s, the incomes of the top 0.1% have grown by £461 a week or £24,000 a year. By contrast, the bottom 90% have seen a real terms increase of only £2.82 a week or £147 a year. source
@rightfold lol
11:55
Ah, Monday morning in the office. Very nearly created a branch named "events-innit". I need a holiday...
12:11
I'm still flabbergasted reading that comment. Also, SO Is too slow today
-3
Q: What is the unspecified behaviour of program between specific points in c++?

p-karint a = 1; cout<<a++*++a; I expected the output of this code to be 4, it was 4 but if I do: int a = 1; cout<<a++<<" "<<++a; The expected output is 2 2 final value of a = 4, but the final value is 2 3. I can't figure out the logic.

sigh
user1804599
Yum.
user1804599
Emmentaler-flavoured crisps.
EWWWWW
Why would the final value be 4 when you start with 1 and increment twice? — FredOverflow 45 secs ago
@FredOverflow soooo patient ^
I was just trying to understand him :)
12:31
@sehe And now the question is gone.
[sigh] just found in a protocol struct in my legacy, inherited C:

'char dunnoWhat={0x3e}; '

I want to die now.
2
What's wrong with it? Initializing a scalar with braces has always been allowed in standard C, hasn't it?
@FredOverflow It's some undocumented flag pattern. I don't know what it does. Nobody knows what it does.
@FredOverflow Doubt it.
thought that was just aggregates.
12:39
Is that even possible? An idiomatic Java signature like public <T> void f(Collection<T> x) would probably look like template<typename It> void f(It begin, It end) in C++. How would a unified documentation for f look like? — FredOverflow 1 min ago
To find out what it does, I have to take apart the protocol parser at the other end. It's a humongous pile of utter crap, and it's all mine:((
@BartekBanachewicz What up?
@DeadMG clang -std=c89 does not complain about int a = {42};
@MartinJames Maybe it's used to clear the LSB and MSB in a byte?
easy 110 reps on meta for a short question and a short answer today
@FredOverflow With my luck/codebase, it won't be remotely simple. Can just smell wasting hours/days on this shite for very little return. I'd like to ship all this code as Malaysia Airlines cargo.
12:51
Probably a bad time to say this ... I really shouldn't ...
but how much do you think you can sell a Boeing 777 on the black market with 237 passengers?
4
Who would want to buy passengers?
slave worth $
Okay, but it's not like airplane passengers have special properties that qualify them for slave labor.
Maybe some African prince/princess bought the plane and made the passengers his/her slaves
@FredOverflow They do on Ryanair - it's the only type of cargo that self-loads at no cost.
5
12:56
@MartinJames If your problem is little return, how about adding return INT_MAX; to the code? ;)
@MartinJames that's probably a lie
@sehe Nobody in the UK knows what it does. The original developer disappeared abroad years ago, (no, I was not responsible).
> A game where you freeze familiar scents in North Korea
WTF???
Think about it - if you are sufficiently evil and an genius, why risk your life traffic drugs, steal a plane and sell it! Much easier ...
@FredOverflow I don't want to add even one extra character to this code - it scares me.
13:01
Do you have to test it on a live system?
Much less scary when you have a development system to develop and test on, then when all is ready roll onto production
@sudorm-rfTelkitty No - I have a test system in my office. Some of the system tests are automated, many are not. I am never going to get paid for a full suite of tests. It's just nasty. It's old, embedded and making a change involves physically swapping flash chips.
@MartinJames but you are now
@sehe I feel like Marvin, rather than Martin:(
happy St patricks day all.
user1804599
13:12
Nobody cares about St. Patrick's day.
@rightfold Tony Cronin from Dublin probably does.
@rightfold change the record :D
you just copy and paste 'Noboddy cares' get a new repotoire
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Therefore, he's clearly a "nobody".
that's what PROLOG would say anyway
@DeadMG Poor thing
user1804599
@MartinJames software developer rule #1: always leave the playground cleaner than you found it.
13:14
@rightfold software developer rule #2: ignore rule #1
user1804599
If you don't follow it, don't ever complain about code being bad.
you have terrible code always
interesting docu about snowden, wit differ and the NSA. @righfold, don't say it.
heh
@rightfold I never complain about my code being bad
well, okay, there was this one time...
@alvas It is the author who will decide whether this answer is useful or not. So keep your comment with you yourself. — Vlad from Moscow 17 hours ago
Up to his old tricks again, I see
The fair fans blew, while errors grew,
The furrowed filedates agree;
I was the first that ever burst
Upon that undocumented C.
Also, fuck it.
Maybe I'll have a break and see how many jam games run without missing libraries/redistribs.
Lemme guess - is it 'none'?
I only tried yours
I don't have time to install things
I didn't submit one.
....
expertly done.
maybe it was the Prowler then. I often conflate the two of you
@LightnessRacesinOrbit The only PC RAD environment I am fully proficient with is Delphi, which I cannot use for the jam 'cos closed-source libs.
13:28
Write Hangman in C
use triple pointers
Win award for shittiest code
PROFIT
@TonyTheLion I'd rather sell my internal organs on ebay.
charge your client for testings?
it's called 'quality control'
Thanks for your support, but the swamp is too deep to be drained. I have legacy crap even in Delphi:

procedure TStartUp.CalcFrameID(var dataStr: string; channel: Byte; dest: Byte; master: Boolean);
var
dataLen: byte;
begin
dataLen := ((Length(dataStr)-4)-1) div 8;
dataStr[1] := chr((channel shl 5) or dest);
if(master) then dataStr[2] := chr($9F)
else dataStr[2] := chr($1F);
dataStr[3] := chr($C0 or ((dataLen and $1F) shl 2));
dataStr[4] := chr($3E);
end;
it's plane day apparently
afternoon
13:37
@MartinJames I'm tempted to bin that
@Jefffrey What do you mean? Not exactly plain as day.
too much ugly code
42 mins ago, by Martin James
@FredOverflow They do on Ryanair - it's the only type of cargo that self-loads at no cost.
45 mins ago, by sudo rm -rf Telkitty
but how much do you think you can sell a Boeing 777 on the black market with 237 passengers?
user1804599
@TonyTheLion networked multiplayer using nothing but POSIX APIs. Must write server too, and handle c10k.
^ these are the starred messages
they both involve planes
airplanes
13:38
well, we're on a different plain today
so yea
user1804599
POD.
It's plane to sea that it crashed in the ocean.
Why is the quoted starred messages being starred again, please star the original message
not the quote
tia
@MartinJames Yea well I would say Monday hasn't taken off that well
@TonyTheLion ..and you've landed us both in it.
@MartinJames Have to find a way to stall this.
13:42
@TonyTheLion Don't get in a flap about it.
You have already voted, but the voting has been cleared by a moderator
woot?
@MartinJames But we're on a roll here
Lost too much lift in this conversation.
These puns are getting terminal. I'm gonna taxi to the pub.
hahahaha
@TonyTheLion Yaw kidding me.
13:48
Someone else has pitched in..
@MartinJames good reference. Tea?
dem puns
Coffee and a banana sandwich.
Do you think Stackoverflow use users as their guniea pigs?
user1804599
user1804599
13:51
I hope it works.
I wouldn't be too shocked if they use low rep regulars for some of their hideous experiments ...
@rightfold You haven't tried it? Doesn't look like a difficult test to me.
@rightfold c10k must stand for countercheck according to combined internet puzzle dictionaries
user1804599
The C10k problem is the problem of optimising network sockets to handle a large number of clients at the same time. The name C10k is a numeronym for concurrently handling ten thousand connections. The problem of socket server optimisation has been studied because a number of factors must be considered to allow a web server to support many clients. This can involve a combination of operating system constraints and web server software limitations. According to the scope of services to be made available and the capabilities of the O.S. as well as hardware considerations such as multi-process...
lol
Easter might be approaching, but I'm not an egg yet
13:53
but are you a rabbit bunny?
egg nog?
user1804599
egg foo young
OK, now I want chinese.
@rightfold it also looks exceedingly trivial and boring. And no it doesn't "work". Because you don't deal with links, permissions, accessibility, ordering...
user1804599
13:55
It doesn't work because there is a type error.
user1804599
But if I resolve that it works fine.
@rightfold lol
user1804599
I works just as fine as listFiles does.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit you can't really /conflate/ persons. Maybe the associations you have made to their identities :)
> "Stop conflating me!"
14:01
I'm terrible at programming, I created this type: Dictionary<string, List<KeyValuePair<int, double>>>
eeekkkk
user1804599
That is not inherently terrible.
Its ugly as fuck
user1804599
What is it for?
storing a mapping between a Country and a value and the month the value was published
user1804599
wat
user1804599
14:03
I don't see any month or country types in there.
namespace bla
{
    using KeyValues = List<KeyValuePair<int, double>;
    using ParameterGroups = Dictionary<string, KeyValues>;

    // be less unhappy
}
because strings and ints
user1804599
Don't use strings and ints.
@TonyTheLion Yeah it /is/ bad. But q&d is sometimes defensible
user1804599
struct Country { public string Name; }
struct Month { public int Index; }
14:04
@sehe q&d?
user1804599
dirty & quick
user1804599
I.e. bad code.
this isn't production code
nevertheless
user1804599
It actually is.
14:05
@TonyTheLion it's almost always quicker to strongly type (ADT)
user1804599
All bad code will eventually be used in production.
@rightfold Which is the prime reason why we are all actively encouraging you to procrastinate in the lounge, and abandon all your projects
user1804599
I don't write much bad code.
user1804599
Especially not in private projects.
MISSION FUCKING ACCOMPLISHED
14:06
You fucked in your mission?
XKCD REFERENCE BLATANTLY MISSED
user1804599
I have a question.
Has anyone here ever worked with the ROKU api?
user1804599
Dat bar chart.
14:17
@rightfold congrats
> I think it only fair to tell you that if I acquire this book it would only be for the express purpose of scanning it and turning it into a torrent and uploading it so anyone who wants it can get it for free.
That’s the world of today, man. Who needs money if everything of value is free?
So I realised that the reason my key was not opening the door to 'my' flat was that I was on the wrong floor.
12
Whoa. Telkitty has friends who comment at XKCD
@R.MartinhoFernandes How long did it take?
@R.MartinhoFernandes ITT robot scaring the neighbours
I think they weren't home.
Took me a few tries.
@sehe Ow, my head
I can't decide if that is incredibly dumb or incredibly deep
14:27
I feel for you. It's very clear to me it's incredibly loud and obnoxious. And unconstructive
paying money for a book containing mostly content that was available for free on the internet already, so that you can make it available for free, which is okay because the author of the book won't need money because his book (and, by implication, everything else of value) is being provided for free
it's pretty meta
Yup. It's irrelevant and still tries to be obnoxious
That's the proverbial insult with the no-less-proverbial injury
> Regarding cabs: The world of the future does not require people to move around. They stay home and the information comes to them. Also cabs will be driven by robots.
What a weird person
I wonder why the robots drive cabs that no one needs
because they don't care that no one ever takes the cab lol
I guess they'd be unemployed otherwise. Then they'd probably form gangs and start doing drugs and stuff. Next stop, robot uprising
I suppose having robocabs driving empty around is preferable
14:32
nah it's more like a drama
A statement
where one tells a robot driver that in reality he's not driving anyone anywhere
and the robot feels so depressed he starts having suicidal thoughts
Nice short story on similar ideas.
14:52
if I ever have a pond, I am having at least one if these spheres
does anyone know of an arithmetic type implementation e.g. for ints or doubles without any implicit conversions?
ideally i would like to do:
use type1 = arithmetic<int>;
use type2 = arithmetic<int>;

auto a = type1{1};
auto b = type2{1};
a = 3; // error: implicit conversion from int to arithmetic<int>
crap =(
> google apps
What.
if possible it would be also nice to disable conversions between type1 and type2 even if both are of type arithmetic<int> (e.g. by using boost::uuid to create an unique type)
I have my own implementation of this, but want to let it go in favor of a standard one if it exist e.g. in boost
@R.MartinhoFernandes Is that cargo culting? Or an actual decent use case?
user1804599
15:00
@sehe alt text
user1804599
@gnzlbg add operator=(int x).
wouldn't that trigger a conversion if someone elses type is implicitly convertible to int?
I provide operator() to get the underlying type
@sehe ;)
I knew someone was going to say that
I have some methods returning some integer indices, and some methods taking some integer indices. I would like to typecheck that, and since the indices are used for iteration, I cannot use an enum.
user1804599
@gnzlbg make it a template with SFINAE and std::is_same<T, int>.
15:10
what if someone passes a short?
user1804599
No match because std::is_same<short, int>() is false.
so auto a = 3; works, but auto a = 3s; doesnt ?
that is weird
user1804599
You can use std::is_integral instead of std::is_same. :v
user1804599
There is no s suffix.
Does someone have the link to that beautiful answer of robot in which he explains why getters and setters are bad?
15:11
so what if someone explicitly instantiates std::is_integral for its own type?
user1804599
In that case he deserves the code to break.
user1804599
So you shouldn't worry about that.
i dont know
95
A: Why use getters and setters?

R. Martinho FernandesA public field is not worse than a getter/setter pair that does nothing except returning the field and assigning to it. First, it's clear that (in most languages) there is no functional difference. Any difference must be in other factors, like maintainability or readability. An oft-mentioned adv...

found
it doesn't cost anything to force people to write the conversion explicitly if they want one
any other way seems just full of corner cases and surprises although I hope im wrong
i do allow it in a explicit constructor tho
so you can do:
type1 a = 1;
type2 b = 3;
auto c = type1{b};
user1804599
15:22
Explicit is better than implicit.
Xeo
Xeo
An alternative solution is simply to install windows. (In the basement, I mean.) — squeamish ossifrage 17 hours ago
When is someone going to replace robot's GPS board?
@rightfold So what is your opinion on implicit parameters in Scala? ;)
user1804599
I don't have enough experience with them to say anything about them.
user1804599
I only don't like them for DI because you have to keep the arguments in scope everywhere, which is pain.
15:32
> There's this claim that you can change the implementation and your clients don't have to be recompiled. Supposedly, setters let you add functionality like validation later on and your clients don't even need to know about it. However, adding validation to a setter is a change to its preconditions, a violation of the previous contract
@Jefffrey I think I just had an orgasm.
15:54
@MartinJames is he lost again?
@thecoshman See starboard - lost vertically.
@R.MartinhoFernandes of for fuck sake man.
@FredOverflow you never saw that?
16:08
@R.MartinhoFernandes was the smith to tell you that? :3
JBL
JBL
So either I'm truly dumb. Or my VS doesn't know its maths anymore.
The second looks more probable.
@JBL Eh, I don't know. Does it? :P
JBL
JBL
@Jefffrey Mandatory VS bashing. No I must have done something silly but can't see what :P
So better put the fault on VS.
No one will notice anyway.
The weak_ptr implementation throwing a bad_weak_ptr is what I was looking for. — vegi 24 mins ago
wokay...
Good to hear! Cheers — sehe 1 min ago
We don't suppose the OP would need reminding about how voting works on SO, right
16:26
posted on March 17, 2014 by Herb Sutter

It has occurred to me that I never announced this event here… In two weeks, Bjarne and I will be doing a two-day Stroustrup & Sutter on C++ seminar in the San Francisco Bay area. It has been several years since the last S&S event, so Bjarne and I are really looking forward to this. […]

oh, Sutter's the guy who wrote that book about C++ practices w/ Andrei Alexandrescu
posted on March 17, 2014 by Herb Sutter

PS on the previous post regarding Stroustrup & Sutter: I had asked the organizers whether it would be possible to get a piano in the room. I just learned a few minutes ago that they will be able to arrange a baby grand. Sweet! This is going to be fun…Filed under: C++

sadly Alexandrescu is the only famous Romanian programmer that I know of
as a Romanian that is kinda sad
16:46
The last message was posted hours ago, this room is dead: go away.
8
user1804599
11
Q: If the infinite cardinals aleph-null, aleph-two, etc. continue indefinitely, is there any meaning in the idea of aleph-aleph-null?

aleph_aleph_nullApologies if this isn't a sensible question, I really don't know too much about these infinite cardinals aside from the basics. I did, however, think that the idea of the "aleph-null"th aleph number was interesting enough to base my username on and my own attempts did not prove fruitful, so I was...

user1804599
dat username
17:06
room topic changed to Lounge<Absent>: We're absent. Join us in our absence [absence++]
17:27
fuck sake, when I finish all this damn house work, going to need to replace my damn computer fans for sure.
1
Q: main(int argc, char* argv[]) dont understand

user3402584i am trying to understand int main( argc, char* argv[]) thing. When i using arguments like ./program 1 bbbbbb code: cout<< argv[0] << ' ' << argv[1] << ' '<< argv[2] << endl; will show: ./program 1 bbbbbb but in this case: cout<< *argv[0] << ' ' << *argv[1] << ' '<< *argv[2] << endl; ...

user1804599
@thecoshman Do you also replace me? Because I am also a great fan of your computer. :(
17:58
@EtiennedeMartel well, that was ... weird
user1804599
Ugh.
user1804599
HTML y u no CDATA you piece of shit.
right
why do you need cdata in html?
my CT results show almost nothing but just for once, it's not quite nothing.

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