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18:00
@R.MartinhoFernandes Daisy would eat it.
18:16
argparse is so bad
user1804599
The Python library?
user1804599
What is wrong with it?
It's complicated and ultimately making arbitrarily-nested subcommands is a goddamn pain
Just bought Banished looks fun
18:27
@R.MartinhoFernandes For the average French person, "the" is pronounced "ze".
I had a Uni teacher who kept going on about the zhis pointer.
user1804599
lol
@Borgleader Been playing it quite a bit.
@R.MartinhoFernandes The real issue is that the sound for "th" doesn't exist in French. So, for French speakers, "the" is either "de" or "ze". In Quebec, it's the former. In France, it's the latter.
the game breaks down a bit on larger towns
18:29
@DeadMG I see Banished as an unfinished product that shows a lot of potential. I hope it keeps getting updated with more content.
I have less of a problem with the content per se than I do with some of the interface.
when you have 1500 citizens and they keep starving to death because they're walking all the way across the biggest map for no apparent reason, it's really annoying that there are very few tools to figure out what the fuck is going on.
@DeadMG Yeah, that as well. But in the end, it's the same issue.
Pinkie loves Stalin and hates Hitler.
The game is unfinished. If the guy keeps working on it, the hopefully all that'll get fixed.
also I'd feel better if there was more of an obvious goal.
something like KSP is only half sandbox in that the goals in KSP are flying around the damn sun.
whereas in Banished it's kinda like, now I have a self-sustaining town that satisfies me and why should I keep playing the game?
18:32
@DeadMG SimCity had no obvious goal. However, it took a lot of time to get the "end game".
Minecraft either
Minecraft sucks.
@DeadMG why?
and SimCity, I honestly don't remember, I never played it that much and it was a long time ago.
inb4 bugs
18:33
Banished doesn't have a lot of things for you to build, so you quickly get to the end of the content.
And then you wonder what you can do next.
ah
that's not exactly true.
Banished doesn't have many structures, but it does have some quite complex citizen interactions that stuff like SimCity doesn't feature.
@Etienne I know. It's also not the real issue as empirically shown by the fact that most languages don't have either of the "th" sounds and yet their native speakers don't exhibit such rampant behaviour.
you can run into demographic problems like baby booms
old people blocking up housing
@R.MartinhoFernandes Probably an educational problem.
It's a rather rare phoneme.
18:35
there aren't a great many structures but there's much more importance in placing them
@Etienne my French friends that speak English properly agree with that theory.
@Jefffrey In part, because there's no point to playing the game, in much the same way.
there's no point in playing any game ever
so that's a moot argument.
@R.MartinhoFernandes What I'm saying is that France sucks.
2
@DeadMG There is a point, and it's whatever you can think of. If you need someone to hold your hand, alright, but don't go blaming Minecraft's design for your lack of imagination.
nah
the point to programs like Blender or GCC is whatever I can think of.
Minecraft is a million years from whatever I can think of.
18:37
@DeadMG s/*/I don't understand sandbox games/
FTFY
user1804599
There is a point.
user1804599
You will not be bored to death.
@DeadMG Do you think LEGO bricks suck because there's no victory or defeat conditions?
user1804599
And it can be relaxing, which may feel good.
I thought that the diminished exposure to the language resulting from say, dubbing movies might have something to do with it, but that doesn't explain Quebec
18:38
@R.MartinhoFernandes We're surrounded by 350+ million English speakers.
@EtiennedeMartel Well, they're aimed at children. They don't suck for children. But for me, then yes, they do suck.
@DeadMG Ah, so there's your problem: you dislike toys.
if I wanted to exercise my boundless imagination, I'd download a program that actually permits me to do that, such as 3D modelling.
or a programming environment.
@DeadMG Constraints help with creativity.
18:40
That's why we have themes for game jams, for example
well then I guess you should create a full-scale working model (with FTL travel and all) of the USS Enterprise in the next five seconds.
@DeadMG What is your point, exactly?
well
preemptively lol
18:41
Feels to me like all you're saying is "I don't like it when I'm not being told what to do"
technically I've given you some constraints to work with, but it's not going to improve your creativity at all.
"constraints" alone is far from sufficient.
You keep moving the fucking goalposts again.
and there's plenty of constraints that are plain unhelpful.
like, for example, "Place every individual 3D block by hand".
so this time the game jam poll doesn't ask for name
you don't have to do that
@R.MartinhoFernandes ^ lol
18:43
What's with you guys and the name thing?
I did forget a joke question.
@R.MartinhoFernandes well someone can vote 10 times
@EtiennedeMartel No, what I'm saying is that if I want to create my own experience, there's far superior ways of going about it and actually creating experiences I might want to actually create in a reasonable timeframe. I don't need to pay money for that, either. I pay a game developer money to experience the experiences they have created. And if they haven't actually created any, I'm not getting anything out of it.
And with the name someone can vote ten times using everyone else's names
Didn't happen, though
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's much easier to vote 10 times anonymously than impersonate 9 different people and get away with it
@DeadMG Games are frameworks with which you create your own experiences. You're talking about non interactive forms of art, like films or litterature.
18:47
strictly, I do create my own experiences when I play something like CS:GO, in that I would arguably have a different experience if I made different choices
but the core experience is always the same- shooting at other players in a certain setting.
@DeadMG Only if you define "experience" in a very restrictive sense that somehow supports the point you're trying to make here.
Which apparently is interesting.
ultimately, I make a decision about what experience, exactly, I want to have, but the developers of the game created all the experiences I could ever have in that game.
I can't re-program it so that the enemies are zombies or something.
@DeadMG That depends on the amount of "emergent" gameplay a game allows.
Sandbox games allow for a wider variety of expriences than more linear titles.
Oh well, I'll ask for name next time.
18:50
allows isn't a problem for me.
requires is.
But ultimately you craft your own experience using the tools the developers gave you.
That's why a game is interactive and a film isn't.
Now, you could argue that whatever Call of Duty's single player campaign is a film.
haven't played a CoD in like, a decade, so I apologize for missing the reference
the 4th, MW2 and MW3 story are nice
What I'm saying is, whatever you do, you're creating something. Whether or not you realize it is irrelevant.
Ultimately every game have limits and requirements.
18:52
@Jefffrey Yes, but good game design is too hide those limits.
SimCity 3000 Unlimited had no limits
Some more (linear games), some less (sandbox like games).
@EtiennedeMartel Yes, but there's a big difference between "We already provided 95% of all the experience by providing the levels/mechanics/weapons/opponents and all you have to do is move and shoot", and, "We basically didn't really provide anything so why don't you put in all the effort".
oh wait, that's a pun on Unlimited isn't it?
18:54
I don't get you, bro.
You are 2 sophisticated 4 me
@DeadMG Again, you just want the developers to hold your hand. And it's fine.
@EtiennedeMartel If I wanted to create my own experience, I'd use programs and tools that actually permit that.
instead of "sandbox games" which neither provide an experience nor permit me to create my own in any significant fashion.
so you either want it all or not at all
@DeadMG Part of the fun is creating something with a limited set of tools. See what you can get away with.
18:56
such extremes
@Jefffrey I'm telling you, he doesn't know what "nuance" means.
the freedom I mean
artificially limiting yourself is pointless.
the end result is what's important.
18:57
@DeadMG Then why do you play a game, then? Why not just go look up the ending cutscene on YouTube?
user1804599
There is no freedom.
I'll make a note of that the end result is what's important for my evil mastermind speech
limiting the tools of creation is just wasting your own time for no benefit
right
@EtiennedeMartel I'm the gameplay man, remember?
user1804599
18:57
No, you have no rights.
@DeadMG The benefit is knowing you can do stuff within those constraints.
Same reason you raise the difficulty level in a game.
It's a challenge.
If you're too lazy for that, fine. I'm not judging you. But don't go telling others they're wrong for enjoying that.
@EtiennedeMartel Which has zero value to me if those constraints don't replicate the constraints I would really be under.
Cue that DF fun cartoon
Who the fuck cares about you.
@DeadMG Unless you find a way to live in a real world made of blocks, I don't think your point is valid here.
I'm not gonna link the obvious reference for the sake of not offending everyone
@EtiennedeMartel The real world not being made of blocks is kinda the point.
19:00
@DeadMG Oh come on, I'm sure you don't only play simulation games.
@Jefffrey awesome ;)
there's no benefit to being able to create things of blocks when if I wanted to create things in less limited ways, I could do at any time.
@DeadMG But creating stuff with that limit is the whole point.
which is no point at all, which was my original point.
19:01
hmm
Begging the question, much.
a few too many "point"s in there.
if you wanted to create the eiffel tower 1:1 in real life it would be easy, but try that with blocks, man!
it's fucking impossible
user1804599
I want a 4TW laser.
19:02
@rightfold give me one
You derive your enjoyment from the effort you spent getting there.
The easier the job is, the less rewarding it is.
@EtiennedeMartel no, I most assuredly do not.
Again, it's a challenge.
And, again, if you're too lazy to challenge yourself, fine.
I derive my enjoyment from the position I'm in.
That you assuredly do not means close to nothing, though
19:03
that's also the whole reason behind courtship and all, instead of paying a whore and be done with it
you wouldn't be in the same position.
still waiting
is that some kinda tiny preview? I can't see anything.
19:05
Ah fuck this shit
@DeadMG Tell me. When you play a game, what's the difficulty level you put it on, on average?
every time I play a new game I always put it on the hardest difficulty.
even then it's often too easy.
@DeadMG Why?
why?
typically, because if you don't do that, then you are not in any interesting positions.
TVserver is ALIVE! Thank fuck for that. Peace. Anne has become dormant again.
if you play Dishonoured on the hardest difficulty, you can be in the position of actually dying because you made a mistake.
user1804599
@MortenKristensen It’s passively cooled.
@R.MartinhoFernandes nice :)
user1804599
And battery powered.
19:07
Artificial limits!
@rightfold Damn, I want one! Ten!
@DeadMG Why do I get the feeling your answer would have been wildly different if I had asked it an hour ago?
dunno
Is it because you're actively trying not to contradict yourself by using the word "challenge"?
hmm.
19:08
What I'm saying is that my bullshit-o-meter is ringing.
I do enjoy a challenge.
user1804599
I am going to order a laser.
but I don't play Dishonoured on the hardest difficulty to arbitrarily create one where none exists.
19:09
if you play Dishonoured on Easy there's no experience to be gained, essentially.
there's no purpose to playing the game on such a setting.
@rightfold How much is that one you're looking at?
may as well spend the time reading the plot description.
I wonder if I let him talk he'll eventually get to a point where he contradicts himself.
user1804599
I don’t know yet.
@EtiennedeMartel isn't he already at that point?
19:10
@Jefffrey He's quite persistent, I give him that.
In order to avoid admitting that Minecraft is "good, bot not for me", he's actively trying to distorty reality.
@Etienne you mean going back in time?
that's quite cool
well, I already had the experience of playing shooters without challenge years ago when I cheated in various shooters in the early/late 90s
@rightfold Show me when you find one ;)
it briefly amused my child self
19:11
it amused yourself that if you cheat you win?
Hey! Bot is good for everyone!
I was like, eight years old.
give young-me a break :P
Jesus fuck, I'm tired.
besides, I earned every one of those cheats by being the most skilled player in the region at Goldeneye 007 by quite some margin.
19:14
Ah Goldeneye good times
@DeadMG You're such a showoff.
heh
hey
it's not my fault that nobody else in the region (it was a few small villages FYI) could beat Aztec on 007 Agent difficulty in a short time.
docopt is quite nice
19:16
and this is the point where I lose the ability to follow your discourses everybody
see ya later
Minecraft sucks.
@pasztorpisti: If you are a professional C++ programmer you should absolutely know which identifiers are reserved. It is not "hidden". You learnt from an inadequate source. '§' is the "section" symbol, and conventionally means "section in a document or other text". None of this is rocket science... — Lightness Races in Orbit 14 secs ago
@DeadMG No, it's not just your thing.
Lounge, descend.
You could reasonably say "I dislike Minecraft".
And there's nothing I can say against that.
But going on in absolutes like a Sith, no.
19:20
oh don't quote the prequels
What are you taking about.
@EtiennedeMartel Nice reference
@R.MartinhoFernandes The Star Wars films that never existed.
48
Q: If only the Sith deal in absolutes, why does Obi-Wan say it that way?

corsiKaObi-Wan tells Anakin that "Only the Sith deal in absolutes", and uses that as his identification that Anakin had actually turned to the Dark Side. But it would seem the statement itself "Only the Sith deal in absolutes" would be an absolute statement itself, and that his rash actions based on th...

Interesting.
19:21
@EtiennedeMartel If DEADMG doesn't like it, it must be bad. Just like 95% of the things in the world. If only they'd known...
@LightnessRacesinOrbit WOA CAPS
@EtiennedeMartel hah
@EtiennedeMartel WOA DEADMG
@EtiennedeMartel Huh... I really like the second answer. It also reminds me of Fatal Alliance
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It's CAPTIVATING.
bah
assertion failed but I can't see any of my variables because a native call frame on top of the call stack?
fuck you C# debugger.
19:27
@DeadMG Why don't you debug in Mixed mode?
should be in
@EtiennedeMartel nice
not sure where that button is, though.
up your arse like everything else no doubt
that was entirely pointless
19:28
@DeadMG I think it's hidden by default in VS2012. You'd have to go and mess with the toolbar settings.
@DeadMG Unlike Minecraft.
@EtiennedeMartel It's totally pointless.
@EtiennedeMartel In VS2013 but I'll have a google.
@ScottW It used to not suck.
well
Unlike Star Trek, which always sucked.
according to the documentation I can find, I should already be in mixed mode debugging.
19:30
Ah ah!
Go to project properties, Debug, enable Native debugging
Super fast jellyfish.
It's disabled by default, because it's REALLY FUCKING SLOW
@CatPlusPlus Already did that.
And 99% of the time you don't need it so
19:31
well, I have debug information for all my native code, and it seems to work fine
it's just that if I break/etc in native code, I can't see any of my managed stuff.
@DeadMG So your debugger is stuck in native mode.
well, strictly, I have a managed call stack.
I remember that, in VS2012, there was a bug that "auto" was actually just "native" if your solution contained native code.
So you had to force it to "mixed" to debug your managed code.
@EtiennedeMartel I changed it explicitly to "mixed" for the native DLL.
hmm still no joy.
Probably because you don't play Minecraft.
lol
Even sbi plays Minecraft
7
Holy tits.
@R.MartinhoFernandes The ape plays Minecraft O.o damn
19:36
He says it's a really nice game
@ThePhD Infinity has always been fucky.
if everybody plays minecraft, why am I always lonely in banana's server?
but infinity x 0 is not really that weird
@Jefffrey Because theres only on spot in the banana hammock
there are 20 actually
19:37
hmm
oh, that was a joke, wasn't it? I'm just messing with ya
Leaving. Have fun.
Bye Robot
I guess that the same filename or the same file could be part of more than one project?
@Jefffrey do not google banana hammocks
19:37
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, of course, he is wise.
@R.MartinhoFernandes see ya
bye bye bot
@Borgleader oh FFS
why don't I listen to people
Do you not watch Scrubs?
19:39
Thats where I learned that expression
I only watch BB and The wire
Why does 'managed call stack' always read as 'mangled call stack'?
"Why does my_program config x works it shouldn't work oh I'm calling git and not my program nevermind"
a classic
why?
@ScottW oh it's you again
In this chat; you get binned for being super annoying.
hmm
could you be a bit specific. i just started with data structures
maybe changing this singleton to a multiton would solve my problem.
no we couldn't, and we don't care.
@DeadMG What did you delete btw.?
20:11
@MortenKristensen He linked to a dump of his program and bitched that it didn't work.
you got a nice tongue there
@ScottW Thanks! :)
@DeadMG Ah yeah, that's awfully stupid.
what's that, nobody starred me saying that I used a Singleton and wanted to change to a Multiton?
what should have i done
dunno, not my problem.
20:17
how rude
don't recall agreeing to be nice
@shortCircuit you could start by debugging your program and experiencing that you deref a null-pointer.
don't feed the vampires.
I can't help myself
user3010322
20:23
Physics!
@ThePhD o.o that guy is legit? I saw him on gametrailers in a series called "The Science of Games"
> Players will not be able to trade Burn Cards with other players and they will not be offered for purchase via microtransactions.
@ThePhD It's funny that on the Twitter post it says "Ask me a qustion" :p
@DeadMG Why does your buffer overflow into the PHP room?
;-)
@DanLugg Wat.
who took the starbait again : - /
the only guy of this channel that I have on facebook is @LightnessRacesinOrbit xD
I refuse to make a facebook account
You're just like my sister, @ScarletAmaranth
:P
Question: do you have a G+ acc?
20:52
then you are not, much apologies, wow
Yesss I fixed terrible bug that was because I'm dumb
And I have working config command hurray
@CatPlusPlus what does the program do?
Right now it manipulates its own config

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