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10:00
@BartekBanachewicz third time's the charm? ;)
There's always a second take next semester :v
@BartekBanachewicz if you get more points now and you actually think you need to try to get them, get them now. If you have to wait till your results to do anything, stop worrying.
@CatPlusPlus this was the subject I was already repeating
@R.MartinhoFernandes Did you receive another Google recruitment mail? :D
10:01
@jalf if by charm you mean fast food job application.
@CatPlusPlus I don't fail subjects because they are hard. I fail them because they are retarded.
@thecoshman that is exactly what I mean. :D
I passed databases on third attempt, a year after I was supposed to
@BartekBanachewicz Congratulations! You just defined cognitive dissonance
10:02
@jalf then yes, third time really is the charm :D
@sehe something along the lines of that, yes.
And if you got hit for too many points, just take a sabbatical for the next semester :v
I am too dumb to silently nod and accept things and that was never good for me
@CatPlusPlus but that means getting the diplomma one year later :/
and so far, despite feeling like flying on 3 points of hull in FTL, I somehow made it
phf, uni. got 1st on first attempt with not a single failed module. All you have to do is what they ask of you. Show some interest and the lecturers help you out. Oh, and not picking a uni that is shit helps. Pick it based on what actual students actually say.
At least here you can "take a break" but still pass courses during
So you might not get that much of a delay
10:04
a year is a year is a year
If you finish the curriculum then it'll be just "wait for exam a little longer"
If at all
Don't Panic
I can just schedule the subjects in a way that makes more sense if I will be able to attend them unofficially
@thecoshman but late to tell him now which uni to pick, isn't it? ;)
but I would drop to sem 4 right now if I failed
@jalf I can still be smug about it though, right?
10:06
Like it matters which uni you pick
EveRy University
well, until we get some samples from people who went to more than one uni, we can't say.
This semester I have really fun, interesting courses in the count of 0
hint: uni is not fun because of the courses
You have samples from people from different unis
Uni is not fun because of courses, yes
It's as far from "fun" as you can get
I'm here only for the discounts really
And DreamSpark
10:08
@CatPlusPlus yeah... and it couldn't be just that you people who say 'all unis suck' just don't like it? not that it is the unis them selves.
But it is?
@CatPlusPlus And you conveniently ignore the samples that contradict your thesis.
morning
I enjoyed uni. It was three years of only having to do like ten hours of work a week for half the year.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I haven't heard of any relevant uni here that wouldn't be filled with bullshit
I don't really care about other countries
10:10
but then I don't get stressed exams or coursework
@thecoshman yeah, I had a good time too. Although there were semesters with a lot more work than 10hrs/week ;)
Ahaha ten hours a week
Try 60
@CatPlusPlus oh I see, so if we provide a decent uni to you, it must just not be relevent.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think that considering the balance between "totally fucked up worst bullshit of my life" and "pretty enjoyable experience", it's still not worth the risk // cc @thecoshman
@CatPlusPlus ha 60, try a not shit uni
10:11
If it's not in my country then yes, it's not relevant
@thecoshman Only if they're actually available.
you can't say "Harvard is a good uni; therefore your argument is invalid" since the ability to attend Harvard if desired is effectively zero.
@jalf yeah, sure :P towards the end it go to may 20 a week :S
however many hours uni classes have, you are supposed to work at home and that's just fucked up
at work, I'm paid to forget I work here after I leave my office
@BartekBanachewicz it's also lies
@BartekBanachewicz What risk? The risk of not rejecting samples you don't like?
JBL
JBL
10:12
@BartekBanachewicz Heh, "supposed" :)
@thecoshman so your uni didn't give you any assigment to do at home?
I only had like an two hours a day to attend. The rest was stuff at home.
I'm sure there are weird people who like this bullshit
@thecoshman we had a few semesters where we pretty much lived at uni :p
7:30-18
On average 9:15-17
For like 3 or 4 days
10:14
@BartekBanachewicz of course they did, I just didn't waste time in lectures all day. I also worked evenly thought the course. I started assignments ASAP and worked till the deadline at a nice steady pace.
@R.MartinhoFernandes no; even if you take the good samples into account, there are (from casual observations) many more bad ones and the consequences of getting into a bad one are just too bad.
@thecoshman Have you thought of a possibility that your uni was completely worthless crap? :v
@thecoshman that's not possible if your assignments are structured in a way that eliminates reasonable approach
@jalf well yeah, but that was because it's a convenient place to do group work.
@BartekBanachewicz So, if you avoid getting good samples as much as possible, you mean?
10:15
@BartekBanachewicz see 'you went to a crap uni'
At least I can see some non-zero value in a degree that requires some effort
@CatPlusPlus consider for a moment that he feels he got something useful out of it, and you claim that you aren't. And yet his university is the useless one?
As much as I hate this entire bullshit anyway
@R.MartinhoFernandes Shouldn't we get unbiased samples? I mean, no one is actively trying to get into bad uni.
@CatPlusPlus it got me a degree that let me get a job vOv
user1804599
10:15
Time to install X.Org. :killme:
@BartekBanachewicz how do you know? :p
@jalf steady there with the sense.
@jalf I have no idea who would want to inflict that on him/herself
@BartekBanachewicz you three (cat and dog too) seems to prove otherwise.
There is literally no better choice
10:16
I went to my uni fool of good faith. [sic]
@R.MartinhoFernandes Seems to me that since you can't effectively rate universities before you go (at least not here) and have very little ability to change once there, you're effectively stuck with whatever you got, so the number of good samples seems to be irrelevant.
pint of uni: 1) have fun 2) get a degree. In that order ಠ_ಠ
there's no fun on my uni.
Haha "fun"
Try "stress" and "depression"
just tears, stress and huge disappointment
10:17
@DeadMG It's not irrelevant when you're looking at the claim that every uni is just as bad.
huh... going to leave that typo there, seems apt :P
even if you said that a generous proportion of universities were good, this would be totally unhelpful because it's impossible to actually find and go to them.
if you can't handle uni, you either chose the wrong uni, or are a terrible person.
10:18
I see
@DeadMG Spreading FUD about it is totally helpful, though.
it's not really FUD
it's perfectly true that many universities are complete shite, if you end up going to one you're completely fucked, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.
Of course not, assuming you use your own custom selective lens to look at it.
not everyone is cut out for the likes of Ox-Bridge. If you chose it and can't handle, you chose wrong.
@thecoshman I didn't go to Oxbridge, but more relevantly, considering that when you choose university you're an ignorant 17-year-old with no idea about anything, it seems pretty unreasonable to suggest that they should make the correct choice without decent external input.
10:20
Yeah choose the uni that can literally teach you nothing and requires zero effort
@thecoshman If I had more points on my maths exam in high school, I would go to ICL. I desperately wanted to go to ICL.
Or save some time and buy a degree on some buttcoin forum
Same thing
@DeadMG doesn't that depend on how long it takes you to find out that it's shite? Say you do it within the first 3 months, is there any significant barrier to dropping it and enrolling at a different one?
@CatPlusPlus no, I chose a uni that sound fun to spend four years of my life at.
instead I comforted myself with "it will probably be easy here" and that was the worst decision of my life
user1804599
10:21
@thecoshman all unis are wrong :D
@jalf Yes.
user1804599
Btw @ScottW
user1804599
I had broodje kroket met mosterd yesterday. :)
user1804599
And today I will have broodje döner. :)
@jalf you only get funding for your first uni, so dropping for another means you pay for it yourself. Though these rules are always changing. You can transfer though, but I've no idea how that actually plays out.
10:22
@thecoshman oh, that does suck
user1804599
Van döner wordt je dïker.
@jalf first semester on my uni was mostly maths and physics taught by competent people. I enjoyed it.
the credits transfer thing is heavily biased towards making you redo work and such
I was literally happy I am there.
and the money/time are also heavily biased against switching.
10:23
and then "engineering" came
And also you have literally zero guarantee of getting admitted to the new one
And that it will be any better (because ahaha it won't be)
@BartekBanachewicz yeah, I was talking in the hypothetical case, because I didn't know the rules for switching to another uni in other countries. So just assuming that you got there, and you magically knew almost from day 1 that "this is a crappy uni, and I should find a different one"
@DeadMG sure, but apart from the monetary side, assuming you switched early, there wouldn't be much work to redo
@jalf The university administration where I was was so incompetent, it took them three months to realize that I was actually attending and had paid them tuition.
Competent administration is an oxymoron
@jalf Depends on the target university. If you didn't finish your first year most of them would ask you to redo the whole first year here.
10:25
> COBOL 20XX
The next COBOL standard is currently under publication as of 2014 It includes the following changes:(Annex E)

ARITHMETIC IS STANDARD has been replaced by new IEEE 754 data types
Many major features have been made optional, such as object-orientation, the VALIDATE facility, the report writer and the screen-handling facility.
Method overloading
Dynamic capacity tables
cobol is getting "dynamic capacity tables" and it's only 2014
besides
where in the hell would you find time and knowledge to find a better university if you're busy trying to earn transferrable credits at your current university?
@DeadMG yeah, but like I said, assume you only wasted a couple of months there. What I was trying to get at was just whether there were other obstacles to switching, than just the work you'd have to redo
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz pff, who needs that when you have sequential files?
@jalf By "just" you make it sound like that's not measured in years and thousands and thousands of pounds in debt.
5 mins ago, by jalf
@DeadMG doesn't that depend on how long it takes you to find out that it's shite? Say you do it within the first 3 months, is there any significant barrier to dropping it and enrolling at a different one?
10:27
@DeadMG "a couple of months there" can be measured in years, but it's about 0.17.
Last I checked, 3 months are less than a year
I could be wrong, I haven't checked recently
yeah, but nobody gives a shit about your three months.
at my university, either you completed a 6-month module, or you had nothing.
If one of the best unis in country is shit (and the best local one that does the profile you want to go with), where do you go?
if you left after 3 months you had nothing.
@DeadMG Well, you chose to answer my question.
10:28
and it's not like you could re-start in the middle of the year
you'd have to shit around losing money for the next nine months waiting for the next academic year to start.
At least after going through that bullshit I can say I graduated from one of the best unis in the country
Some no-name zero-effort one doesn't even have that
well, I can see that trying to actually discuss reality is getting in the way of your pity party. I guess I'll leave you alone then. :)
hey, I'm pretty sure that I did just mention several real factors.
Yes, let's discuss reality by dismissing real experiences of people who went through that
Good job
@CatPlusPlus PG is apparently #4 in Poland :v ~prestige~
@jalf you are supposed to show compassion and hugs
10:30
@ScottW no, I was trying to ask about what the real-world rules were that prevented you from switching universities. But apparently that got in the way of all the self-loathing
YOU ARE SO NEGATIVE :qq:
3 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
If one of the best unis in country is shit (and the best local one that does the profile you want to go with), where do you go?
@jalf And I mentioned several. Incompetent administration, massive granularities for re-using any work or time, huge debts, low probability of finding a new university that's better to accept you
@ScottW ... that is what I was asking, because we live in different countries. I have no clue what the rules are there, and it sounded like it was basically impossible to switch universities, which surprised me
It's a huge pile of paperwork and red tape
Even transferring between faculties/majors on one uni is
oh, I think I see the problem, you seem to think what uni you go to matters.
10:32
And with two you've got even more people to deal with
@thecoshman Er, no, they seem to think it doesn't because they're all shit.
eh
presumably some universities exist somewhere that are not shit
4 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
At least after going through that bullshit I can say I graduated from one of the best unis in the country
Yes, it does matter to some degree
but actually finding them and attending them is not gonna happen.
@R.MartinhoFernandes They think they are shit because they went to a shit uni and not going to one that is a nice place to spend to three/four years of your life.
@DeadMG I went to one ಠ_ಠ
10:33
unless you simply happen to get lucky.
@CatPlusPlus vOv who the fuck cares?
No, we went to one that has some value behind it
which is not a useful judge of anything.
@jalf mostly discrepancies between courses on different unis (which means you can well lose pretty much all of the progress), the fact that others aren't any better too
A shit job just cares you have a degree, a good job doesn't care about the degree and wants you to prove yourself. Either way, the degree doesn't matter
10:34
@BartekBanachewicz yeah, that's why I asked if it would make a difference if you got out early (say, after a couple of months), so you could afford to basically just start over from scratch
If I'm spending 3 fucking years on this, I will not gamble that someone will dismiss my work because it was done in some unknown rural university nobody ever heard of
user1804599
Hair is weird.
@jalf It's debatable as to whether you can afford to go in the first place considering the huge debts you'll get saddled with, let alone another year to redo the first.
14 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
Or save some time and buy a degree on some buttcoin forum
10:35
@thecoshman that pre-supposes the only way a degree could matter is to help get you a job. what about personal cognitive development? why does everybody ignore this?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit that's not really the degree, that's the uni it self. Hence, go to a fuckign good uni where you can enjoy yourself.
@thecoshman i'll give you that
Sure three years is not that long, but it's a fucking age if it's not enjoyable.
2 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
No, we went to one that has some value behind it
> who cares?
10:36
I'm not fucking ignoring it
@DeadMG yeah, it sounds like the financial aspects of it would be a problem. That sucks.
I mean
@cat seriously, why did you go to uni?
I've accrued something like ~21k of debt going to university
and if I went to another to redo my third year that'd be ~28k
What was it that you felt you were going to get out of it that you want?
10:37
and that was before tuition fees were tripled in this country.
To get a degree and maybe learn something interesting
new people get in ~12k/y debt.
@ScottW I'm guessing @DeadMG's debt is in pounds though, not dollars ;)
@jalf yeah my debt's in real money :P
@CatPlusPlus then go to any shit uni to get a degree and learn in your own time. you chose the wrong uni
10:38
Oh for fuck's sake
@thecoshman WTF dude?
@DeadMG were you on the the scam that lets you pay back fuck all?
@thecoshman It's impossible to choose a good one so I don't know why you keep saying that as if it means something.
@thecoshman Considering that I have the lowest level of income possible, I am paying back fuck all.
@R.MartinhoFernandes what, he wanted a degree and to learn. Why does that mean he has to go to 'the top uni in the country' or what ever wank storm it was?
So it at least have SOME value in it? Jesus christ it's not that hard to fucking understand
10:39
@thecoshman What does that mean he has to go to 'a good university according to some undisclosed list' or what ever wank storm it was?
@CatPlusPlus value to who?
to whoever might ever look at that shit of paper that's your diplomma
To me, to whoever will be looking at that goddamn diploma later
If you think there is no difference in uni name on that piece of paper, you're deluding yourself
It's personal marketing
if I wasn't sick I'd look into going back to university anyway
you can also get a dick butt stamp for special achievements on that
10:41
there's a lot more of a moron-wall than I expected finding employment without one
> But, C is not to blame for this state of affairs. No my friends, your computer and the Operating System controlling it are the real tricksters. They conspire to hide their true inner workings from you so that you can never really know what is going on. The C programming language's only failing is giving you access to what is really there, and telling you the cold hard raw truth. C gives you the red pill. C pulls the curtain back to show you the wizard. C is truth.
and a banana sticker
so I guess I've got no choice
There is a reason why people are so eager to gloat about graduating from MIT or whatever
at least it'd only be for one year and I have at least some idea what to look for.
10:42
> Type in all of the code. Do not copy-paste!
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, great ! He's even insisting on not using windows and an IDE !
well
AAHAHAHAH I PASSED
I PASSED
10:44
for me that's the ultimate dick-in-the-face about university
@ScottW @rightfold ?
@ScottW Yes. Never finished.
@BartekBanachewicz congratz
4.5/25 theory, 18/25 FUCKING ASSEMBLY WITH PEN AND PAPER EAT THAT BITCHES
user1804599
@ScottW I.
10:45
can't talk about any other countries but my experience of finding work here is degree or go home
@BartekBanachewicz grats :)
Jul 26 '11 at 9:13, by Martinho Fernandes
On one hand, having one would give me more flexibility when picking a job. On the other hand, I'm fed up with school already.
There's also this.
:lol:
Also, I wouldn't have a job if I went to a different uni
well I don't so point proven already
Degrees are worthless as a measurement of skill
10:46
:P
5 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
It's personal marketing
when my health clears up maybe
just one year
I finished the first two
@DeadMG still no news on that front, btw?
ah, yes.
the consultant arranged an appointment to see me about my CT results I think
but nobody mentioned this to me.
then they called me up to complain about me missing it
@CatPlusPlus it's only personal marketing for the time where you don't have spent time in the profession. after a few years people tend to not care about degrees
10:48
so I'll probably get a new one soon
@DeadMG oh, are you just like suspended degree... so still technically enrolled?
@ArneMertz It helps anyway
@thecoshman No.
yeah, I thought you actually left fully.
I did
tried a third year at my existing university but it was never gonna happen
after that I left left.
10:49
good good, all is well with the continuum
@ScottW Spent some seven years or so on it, too.
@HamZa are you going to mail him or am I supposed to do it?
I was going mostly on inertia from about the end of second year
10:51
to be honest
And this MSc I'll probably finish in 2020 or something
@StackedCrooked he he :)
I should simply have claimed sickness in my third year and never even tried
But I have discounts so all is good
@DeadMG ah, hilarious :/
10:52
@ScottW It was supposed to be five when I started, but halfway through there was a restructuring that changed it to three years, and I got the short end of the stick.
@DeadMG yeah, would make it easier to continue
ah well, it doesn't matter that much
@R.MartinhoFernandes five? was it for Msc?
five years for a Bsc? o_0
10:52
if I want a degree I've still got one year of government funding left if I choose it
All engineering degrees were five years back then.
and I only need one.
@ScottW A lot of it was my fault.
@DeadMG assuming a uni (even the one you were going to) let you go into third year :S
> I'll be giving you strategies that force you to see your mistakes, but keep in mind that if your code is not exactly like the code in this book it is wrong.
10:53
passed my second
@R.MartinhoFernandes "do you want the long end or the short end?"
@thecoshman Nah, mostly me not caring about things I should have cared about.
Like showing up for exams.
there were a couple exams I didn't show up to
: O
but I'm proud to say that all but one, it was because I was terribly sick.
10:56
my uni is blocking access to loungecpp.net
@BartekBanachewicz What do you mean ? I think he's right. When learning, you should try to not use any auto-complete features which most IDE's do
@HamZa Bullshit.
@A.H. it's a terrible place
there's no point "learning" if it's not in the final environment.
Ooops, missed a not.
10:56
@HamZa I call bs too
@R.MartinhoFernandes I assumed so
@thecoshman the uni or the lounge?
there's no point learning habits you won't need in an autocomplete environment if you're going to be working in an autocomplete environment.
@HamZa what
@HamZa please tell me you're joking.
ooh.
10:58
@DeadMG My reasons to not show up were usually one of 1) I don't know the subject; or 2) I already know the subject so I I'll just move on.
user1804599
Yay i3 works. :3
@R.MartinhoFernandes I already knew most of the useful stuff the university wanted to teach.
@DeadMG It's just my experience when learning. When I use an auto-complete feature I tend to forget the function names for example
@A.H. change to a better uni that doesn't block our website, duh
@HamZa Which is a problem why?
you clearly don't need to know them.
10:58
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, I'm a PHP user who wants to take a huge step to C or C++ :)
@R.MartinhoFernandes Huh, when we converted to Bologna process, students on the old system remained on five-year-long MSc
pretty much the only thing I remember learning at university that was useful that I didn't already know was some requirements stuff.
@HamZa C is fucking terrible. Just sayin'. All the stuff the guy mentions doesn't mention effectiveness of the programmer. He tells you to spend hours on every line because he imagines C is the only way to solve problems.
So your uni was bad too :v
@DeadMG theoretical stuff is awesome
10:59
@ScottW did you say something lol ?
best part in uni
@A.H. at wasting time and money of the student so the lecturer can jerk off.
@DeadMG I learned a lot there, but then called it a day and didn't bother actually getting the grades.

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