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16:00
I watched it
I don't really care much for it
Ell
Ell
I loved bioshock
@CatPlusPlus Ooh, making me even less willing to play that to the end.
Spoilers: it's literally "CHOOSE ENDING, HERE'S FOUR BUTTONS FOR YOU TO PRESS"
@CatPlusPlus Then you missed the game's message of "you are an asshole" because it wasn't you playing.
@CatPlusPlus Oh. Wow.
16:00
@EtiennedeMartel No, I got that, it's just dumb message
@CatPlusPlus To be fair, the fourth button is farther away from the other three.
Ah, yes, there is a hidden ending
:lol:
Hidden in that the button is hidden?
No, in that it's not in the field of view when you're told to push butan
You have to turn around and walk a bit
But then, isn't that how the first DX ends too?
16:02
There are three buttons in front of you, and then a short hallway to your left that leads to the fourth one.
user3010322
Okay, I can render unicode text effectively.
user3010322
Pushing, done for the day.
DXHR gameplay was fun, but not fun enough to warrant a replay
And that ending was just ridiculously shitty
Ell
Ell
@ThePhD lemme see code example
is it furrovine?
DXHR made me hopeful, though.
16:03
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't know, I never had patience for first DX
user3010322
I have a public repo using Furrovine. You can see what the code example looks like there.
@ThePhD false. it is impossible to render unicode 'correctly'
But I think it was a big thing that choices in that game actually matter
Made me belive that the franchise is in competent hands.
For the ending
16:03
So, the next one is probably gonna avoid those mistakes.
DXHR is like someone saw a definition for anticlimax and decided they actually like it
I liked this youtube.com/watch?v=Gcsd6mJ3R08. The little bit of game I played, not so much.
@Ell if you remember me learn from me this ~ I expect that in the next generation we'll write 100 percent of our rendering code in a real programming language—not DirectX, not OpenGL, but a language like C++ or CUDA. Goodbye, graphics APIs!!!
Anyway, DXHR is good because there's a bit in Montreal in it.
user3010322
16:05
... Huh. That's it.
What makes it even funnier is that the game tries veeeeeeery hard to convince you that your choices are very important
user3010322
Vector Fonts were 10000000000% easier to implement than RasterFonts.
user3010322
With this, my engine covers all the necessary bases...
user3010322
... I'm done.
Like with hostages in that first mission
user3010322
16:05
Time to make a game!
Made me chuckle when I found out that the Picus headquarters is in the Montreal olympic stadium's tower.
I cannot exaggerate how fucked up learning openGL 4.2 is...
Yes, you can.
It's great that they finally found a use for this bullshit.
@ThePhD aka time to find all the floors in your engine
user3010322
16:06
@Ell This is an example of the Syntax the basic game skeleton would have.
user3010322
Note that you do not need FurrovineGame at all, and its just a glorified timer.
bad bad bad
@ThePhD bleh, too much effort
@CatPlusPlus lol
16:07
@CatPlusPlus Two step init?
user3010322
I'm sorry, what part of the two-step init here is wrong?
Well, @ThePhD, I see you're still as retarded as ever.
@ThePhD The "two".
Oh hey, you can't comment on files on GitHub either
Huh
Stupid
@EtiennedeMartel does "Pelleteurs" mean anything? supposedly french :S
user3010322
The constructor allows you to set things up. The initialize call is made after all underlying systems you requested are set up.
16:08
@thecoshman "Shovelers"?
Someone who uses a shovel.
@ThePhD You don't need to explain how two-phase init works.
Shovel operators
I think we know.
@EtiennedeMartel apparently, slang for 'shit shoverllers'
If you need two-phase init, your design sucks
16:08
@ThePhD fail. The constructor is not done.
Yes, you can indeed shovel shit in French.
@thecoshman Where is that?
And in other parts of the world as well
user3010322
Putting all of that into the constructor is not good design either.
Yes it is
That's what a constructor does
@EtiennedeMartel vOv one of the teams here has taken that name...
16:09
It initialises an object
@ThePhD Yes, it absolutely is. A constructor should construct an object. If the object is not completely ready for use after the constructor is done, your constructor is broken.
@ThePhD hint: the constructor is not done if you have to then call 'init'
@DeadMG well, if the construcor calls initialize(), then it's fine
@ThePhD Your object should be fully initialised at the end of the constructor. If it isn't, an exception should be thrown. Otherwise you end up with some mangled mess that isn't yet ready to crawl out of the womb.
You just murdered a baby. Congratulations.
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Two-phase initialisation is murdering babies. [c++] [c++11] [c++1y] [no-helpdesk] [no-questions]
16:11
Two-phase init is literally hitler
@ScarletAmaranth is it safe to call initialize 'at nay point'
@R.MartinhoFernandes All too well, unfortunately.
@thecoshman Teams for what?
@EtiennedeMartel vOV our works is broken down into 'agile scrum teams' and we all have to have a team name...
hot sauce too hot abort abort abort
@thecoshman what
16:14
@CatPlusPlus ¬_¬ don't do that. it is 'figuratively'
@CatPlusPlus what part confused you?
@thecoshman So those guys went with a French name to hide the fact they would be shoveling shit?
IN YOUR FACE
@thecoshman lol
FUCK THIS HOT SAUCE ARGh
@EtiennedeMartel vOv one of them is French... maybe it is french slang
@CatPlusPlus 'informal' AKA wrong usage.
@CatPlusPlus sounds tasty :D
16:15
@CatPlusPlus DO NOT FUCK THE HOT SAUCE. I REPEAT: DO NOT FUCK THE HOT SAUCE.
11
@R.MartinhoFernandes :'z
@thecoshman Well, "pelleter de la marde" is common 'round here. It probably is in France as well (although they probably pronounce it "merde" instead of "marde" because they suck).
user3010322
Guess I'm going to rewrite this to only be in the constructor. How exciting.
@EtiennedeMartel Who cares about correct spelling, right.
@thecoshman Want me to catch all of your informal bits? Because I will. Forever.
16:16
@R.MartinhoFernandes Different dialect, different rules blblblbbl
user3010322
I really don't understand why two-phase init isn't allowed here.
@EtiennedeMartel but 'pelleter' itself would just mean 'shovler'?
@ThePhD There's no 'here'.
@ThePhD it's terrible. Why is it there in the first place? WHY MAKE ME DO STUFF
It's pretty much bad everywhere.
16:16
Also I like that example because it shows that language users define a fucking language, not a goddamn dictionary
@R.MartinhoFernandes s/pretty much //
@thecoshman "pelleter" is infinitive tense for the verb that translates to "to shovel".
I don't want to abort this salad
But it's too hot
user3010322
I suppose a better way to do it would be to have an empty constructor and a move constructor, create a fresh GraphicsDevice, and move it into the old one.
@CatPlusPlus ¬_¬ not sure if you doing that will be more annoying for me or you...
@CatPlusPlus man the fuck up :D
@EtiennedeMartel I see...
user3010322
16:17
I suppose this avoids the indirection, so I don't have to make it a pointer in order to initialize it later.
@thecoshman I assure you this will be a great fun for me
@CatPlusPlus abort a salad...?
@CatPlusPlus more sauce!!!
In more interesting news guys the GPU is going to become obsolete soon I preach. CPU's have become so fast and powerful that 3D hardware will be only beneficial for rendering, therefore 3D chips will likely be deemed a waste of silicon (and no one likes bus routes), so the world will transition back to software-driven rendering
16:18
ahaha no
@melak47 You do know whence baby salads come, right?
user3010322
@BDillan Go home.
Cicada?
Go and tell your friends go tell everyone - not to buy a GPU in 10 years
16:19
@BDillan uh
do not feed the trolls ¬_¬
just mute him :)
Im not trolling
user3010322
Writing a move constructor for this class is going to be murder...
16:20
That makes it even less funny
user3010322
Well, whatever. "Proper Design."
> 3D hardware will be only beneficial for rendering
what do you think games do? :v
16:20
@BDillan ಠ_ಠ that's a four year old article
Gaming, duh
So.. GPU will only be good for .. what we actually use it for?
100% accurate prediction
Wait what.
> I expect that in the next generation we'll write 100 percent of our rendering code in a real programming language—not DirectX, not OpenGL, but a language like C++ or CUDA. A real programming language unconstrained by weird API restrictions.
The point was that the CPU can render faster without the stupid bus routes
16:21
Who the fuck is Tim Sweeney?
@ThePhD probably a sign you are making other mistakes.
@R.MartinhoFernandes the creator of Unreal engine
The point is you have no idea what you're talking about.
He sounds like a suit, i.e. with little blood flow to the brain.
16:21
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Two-phase initialisation is murdering babies with hot sauce. [c++] [c++11] [c++1y] [no-helpdesk] [no-questions]
@BDillan bullshit. The CPU is designed to be ok at most tasks. The GPU rocks the fuck out of graphics rendering but is shit at much else.
user1804599
I like hot sauce.
@thecoshman hahahaha, that's even funnier.
@R.MartinhoFernandes (I hope it is, I only looked at the URL)
@ScarletAmaranth Apparently Tim Sweeney doesn't.
16:22
Well compute shaders are a thing
Im telling you everyone. 10 years there will be no graphics APIs. And there will be minimal use for GPUs. Im not trolling ~ you guys just cant see it
But that article doesn't even fucking mention not using GPUs
@CatPlusPlus so I simplified a bit, big deal.
Ell
Ell
@BDillan so how will we render? :3
@BDillan lol
"no graphics APIs" makes absolutely zero sense,
16:23
He was talking about getting rid of GL/DX in lieu of something more flexible
@BDillan You're still gonna need an API, because it's better to have features in the libraries than the languages.
@BDillan well, let's say you are right. What do you propose? We just sit around not making the most of what we have now? Just wait ten years before developing any new software? Just shut up with this nonsense.
If there are no *A*pplication *P*rogramming *I*nterfaces for graphics, you can't put graphics in your applications.
Ell
Ell
@BDillan we use gpus mostly for rendering now o.O
@R.MartinhoFernandes don't you just love markdown :P
any way. home time... then try out Unity :S
16:24
why do you not entirely ignore this guy :)?
@ScarletAmaranth XKCD
@thecoshman I knew it would fail (not the first time I attempt this stunt). But the effect is good enough.
@ScarletAmaranth Not as funny.
@Ell So the prediction is correct!
> From my point of view, the ideal software layer is just to have a vectorizing C++ compiler for every architecture—NVIDIA, Intel, AMD, whoever. Let us write code in C++ to run on the GPU, including shaders in C++, and rendering algorithms in C++, where programmers explicitly create threads, hand work off to them, synchronize shared data, and so on.
> And then use what NVIDIA calls "pixel pipelines" and Intel calls "vector registers" by means of a vectorizing compiler that takes loops, unrolls them, and runs it on the wide vector units.
user1804599
> see
user1804599
dat pun
16:25
It's a dumb idea mostly, but it's nowhere close to being as ridiculous as "hey let's not use GPUs at all"
But hey good job on not getting the point and extrapolating everything from a stupid sensationalist title
user3010322
It's not dumb to have a single language that can compile to multiple architectures.
:golfclap:
user3010322
Switching languages to do other stuff is a PITA. If I could use one language to write most stuff, I would.
The GPU is a fixed-function coprocessor. A regular CPU can do its work. And CPU architecture is getting better. So why not remove it completely? It will be easier for programmers
> 2006-7: CPU's become so fast and powerful that 3D hardware will be only marginally beneficial for rendering [...], therefore 3D chips will likely be deemed a waste of silicon [...] so the world will transition back to software-driven rendering.
16:27
@ThePhD It's dumb to put C++ on GPUs instead of a DSL that actually captures GPU quirks
user3010322
I'm just not so sure C++ is a good abstraction of what the GPU is intended for, so.
user3010322
Shrug.
yeah this totally happened...
but wait! in 10 years!
ok maybe I was 2 years off...or maybe it was 9...
user3010322
You know, people from NVidia already tried to get rid of the rasterizer in a GPU and replace it with a bunch of fully general purpose collection of CPUs.
ever heard of compute shaders?
user3010322
16:28
The performance was so utterly bad they scrapped the idea altogether.
@BDillan Programmable GPUs have been a thing for about a decade now.
user1804599
I’m not sure whether I want to work on Styx or shroom.
Don't do drugs
user3010322
._.
user3010322
Writing these constructors is borderline the worst idea I've ever had.
16:29
well, this is it, the guy's muted
user1804599
I could work on Styx and then implement shroom in Styx later.
@ThePhD yeah that's how you'll look like after doing drugs ;0
user3010322
ANd MSVC not offering good =default only makes it a party. Wooo...
@ThePhD Ha, we fixed a crash today because their ctor generation is broken.
There are so many possibilities for the future...
user1804599
16:31
...so don’t jump to conclusions yet.
user3010322
@BartoszKP ⊙︿⊙ PILLLLZ.
@BDillan Yet you are sooooooo certain that yours (or Tim's if you want) is the only possible one!
@ThePhD that's after 5 years of rehab ;0
@R.MartinhoFernandes um Yes.
Ell
Ell
16:33
okay he is troll I think
@BDillan Improvement in CPUs has slowed to a crawl, and the few minor speed improvements they've made have been mostly by imitating GPUs to a greater degree. Current GPUs have dramatically greater overall speed than CPUs and they're improving faster as well, so you could make a fairly legitimate argument that the CPU is really the specialized coprocessor, and should be used only for administrative tasks to which the real processor (the GPU) is poorly suited.
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes I feel like it shouldn't be too hard for them to get these features in, but they're doing such a... colossally bad job at C++ lately. Unfortunately I can't both write this code and keep writing the debugger / project pipeline for MinGW/GCC.
user3010322
So I'm still pretty hand-foot tied to VC++ at the moment.
user3010322
I sure hope PIX works with a MinGW executable...
@jalf I'm getting them for Dominion as we do play that often.
16:36
@BDillan Specialization is natural course of development. I won't be surprised if there will be APU (Audio) soon - or even they exist already? Like in science - ages ago there was philosophy - later it split into logic, algebra, ethics, etc.
But anyway, for me it just seems wrong to handle cards without sleeves.
I guess it's because of being part of the MtG community for so long.
So I'm getting them for all my other boardgames.
user3010322
@BartoszKP APU's aren't really exposed to the user, because what's onboard is usually what's good enough.
Please don't use APU for that.
@ThePhD well, they will be
user3010322
16:38
There are sound cards, but they usually don't come with their own API unless you're developing a non-personal-computer device (mixers & friends).
user3010322
Like, actual audio tech.
@JerryCoffin Thats because of the market but I think your mis-interpreting the definition of the 'CPU'
yes, I know
DSPs have been around for decades, though.
@BDillan lol
user3010322
The general PC, to enhance the experience of the PC, doesn't really need a specialized audio processing unit or a programming abstraction on top of it except what's offered by the OS.
16:38
Now it's semantics.
@BDillan You seem to miss the fact that everything is market driven.
Everything should be 'more easier for the programmers' driven
good bye nuff said
@BDillan Nice dodge.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I mean the strict analogy - now devs are implementing things on GPUs for their games. In the future they will also implement like, I don't know, voice synthesis for their game characters on APUs
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol, thanks
16:41
Oh, I don't think programmable sound cards are a thing.
@BDillan Most of what I've said has little to do with the market. It's technically driven. CPUs have specialized in maximizing performance for individual threads. For decades that improved largely through simple increases in clock speed. Clock speeds have pretty much stalled for around a decade now, for purely technical reasons. Nobody knows how to build a CPU that'll run at, say, 20 (or even 10) GHz.
@BDillan GPUs exist to make creating super crazy graphics with decent performance easier for programmers!
in MDX { {1,2}, {3,4} } equals { 1, 2, 3, 4 }
for fucks sake
i respect people who invented all that crap but they think totally different than me
Sounds like Perl.
16:43
@R.MartinhoFernandes That guy wants magic.
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's a business intelligence query language
I was going to call it Larry Wall-style design, and it actually is.
@BartekBanachewicz business intelligence sounds like an oxymoron
@BartekBanachewicz "business intelligence" - right, that explains it
> i’m an idiot
16:44
you now it's not that bad per se
Commit message.
GPUs, by contrast, concentrate on maximizing overall throughput, especially for embarrassingly parallel applications. While they benefit from increased clock speed (and their clock speeds have certainly increased to some degree over time) they're not nearly as dependent upon clock speed as CPUs.
@JerryCoffin mainframes are not fast because of CPU GHz vOv
ArrayList?? what? no one uses that dude, this is not java for God's sake. — HighCore 2 mins ago
@BartekBanachewicz Mainframes have a lot of RAM.
16:48
> They were asking specifically about List<object> not List<T>
yeah, the comment is funny though
it's a dupe anyway
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM
@BartekBanachewicz You should have stopped at "mainframes are not fast". :-) At one time, the CPU in a mainframe was dramatically (two or three orders of magnitude) faster than a desktop machine that a normal person could hope to afford. Nowadays, the real advantage of most mainframes is in RAS, not raw speed. Yes, there are also machines that just use lots of normal CPUs in parallel to achieve higher speed--but they're basically taking the same approach as GPUs, on a larger (more expensive) scale.
Hello, Lounge!
16:54
fuck yeah I DID IT
i was missing Aggregate function
fuck unhelpful examples
fuck that assignment already
Fuck that hot sauce.
user1804599
17:12
Is Hebrew a difficult language?
user1804599
lol
The main difficulty with such languages is the new alphabet. After this it gets similar to learning other languages.
"the new alphabet" includes also hard work with pronunciation of some phonemes that don't exist in the languages you know. Not sure whether such exist in Hebrew (they do in Arabic).
@BartekBanachewicz In C++ initilaizer lists { {1,2}, {3,4} } equals { 1, 2, 3, 4 } with brace elision, yes?
17:31
huh?
Those two things are definitely not equivalent in general
@GlennTeitelbaum um, no
Merge conflicts :argh:
user784668
(removed)
user784668
GDB and binutils are now one repo.
user784668
Good they finally saw sense.
17:43
Why GDB and binutils of all things
GCC and binutils might make sense
user784668
@CatPlusPlus GDB had a copy of like half of binutils in its repo.
VCS be hard
user784668
@CatPlusPlus especially if it's CVS
user784668
Well, now it's Git.
Ell
Ell
Man I need to get a lot better at maths
17:56
who was excited about vbox seamless mode? Because vmware blows it away!
user1804599
My god.
why the hell didn't people tell me about these features rather than just saying vmware is better.
user1804599
VMware is better.
vbox is free :v
user1804599
VMware is free too.
17:59
qemu is better for virtual machines.
user1804599
Who emulates. :V
Better? I used the term loosely.
@melak47 so is vmware player

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