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03:00
@R.MartinhoFernandes But given: "Self-proclaimed SQL guru, Java pro [...]", do you (can you) trust anything he says?
user3010322
Wait. Is there a std:: version of lexical_cast ?
Proposed
@ThePhD No, but there are many overloads of std::to_string, which often (but definitely not always) work as a decent substitute.
Ell
Ell
^^
I wonder why it doesn't get more notice
03:01
@JerryCoffin Erm. Surely, you're joking. I'd be surprised if many professional C++ programmers would come up with a correct simplistic lexical cast for double in a day, without performance constraints.
@JerryCoffin they just keep piling those up
@JerryCoffin I hate that there's no std::locale parameters. And no formatting abilities.
@sehe Do you mean without using std::stringstream? Using stringstream, it's pretty trivial, at least for any definition of lexical_cast I've seen yet.
@JerryCoffin with
Ah, unmatched ticks.
03:03
Well. What would you do? os << setprecision(std::numeric_limits<double>::max_digits10)?
Oh, and someone named Kara was playing Starbuck.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit the cakeday on youtube is it a custom engine
your
@sehe At least as I recall them having originally be defined in Boost, it always used default width and precision. You could, of course, argue that there are better ways it could be defined than that, but unless you have a design document specifying something else, it would be hard to call that incorrect. If you did have such a design document, it would still be fairly easy as long as the requirements fell within the capabilities of a normal stream implementation.
@JerryCoffin Really. That'd be "incorrect" in my book. I mean, if it doesn't roundtrip for any normal (std::isnormal) doubles, it's incorrect.
@JerryCoffin Oh wow. Default wdith and precision means it's not roundtrippable.
03:09
@meWantToLearn Yep
Yup. Always have tests. Always have specifications.
Yeah, as sehe I think roundtripping is important enough to call incorrect to an implementation without that property.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit do you have it on github or its private?
@meWantToLearn private
03:09
Now, one surprise is that std::numeric_limits<double>::[max_]digits[10] is not dependable. So you'd have to hardcode those. All in all: too much to call it trivial
@LightnessRacesinOrbit (why was that starred)
uh..
I'm looking at lexical_cast.hpp
their double conversion is definitely not trivial...
@sehe Presuming the double in question has at least one guard bit, I'm reasonably certain there's no way to guarantee a bit-for-bit identical double after a round-trip.
@sehe don't ask me
@Rapptz Well. Surprise, theirs is the other extreme
@sehe "dependable" how?
03:11
@LightnessRacesinOrbit gcc reports 0
Oh, hurray, I just won silver and bronze at the same time. Fucking A.
@R.MartinhoFernandes In that case, I think you're asking for an impossibility.
Ah, @sehe, FWIW, and related to that Unicode security thing you posted earlier: bugs.flamingdangerzone.com/youtrack/issue/ogonek-19
Oops.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit such are the highlights of repalak's days
( Sat-03:13:02 ) ( tomalak ) << std::numeric_limits<double>::digits;
( Sat-03:13:03 ) ( geordi ) 53
( Sat-03:13:07 ) ( tomalak ) -v
( Sat-03:13:08 ) ( geordi ) g++ (GCC) 4.9.0 20131015 (experimental)
@sehe ^
03:13
@JerryCoffin Why? Is there a normal double that can't be represented in a finite number of decimal digits?
FWIW, I mean ==-roundtripping.
@sehe Don't know what you're using but my GCC (4.8.1) reports 17, same with Clang on Coliru for max_digits10
@ScarletAmaranth innit
( Sat-03:14:04 ) ( tomalak ) << std::numeric_limits<double>::max_digits10;
( Sat-03:14:05 ) ( geordi ) 17
@LightnessRacesinOrbit tomalak and geordi laforge... cross series conversation O.o
@Borgleader Not really; they were both from TNG.
Unlike most mathematical operations, the conversion of a floating-point value to text and back is exact as long as at least max_digits10 were used (9 for float, 17 for double): it is guaranteed to produce the same floating-point value, even though the intermediate text representation is not exact. It may take over a hundred decimal digits to represent the precise value of a float in decimal notation. cppref
03:14
@LightnessRacesinOrbit well not your avatar o.o
@R.MartinhoFernandes With guard digits, there may be multiple bit patterns that all produce the same decimal representation when rounded to the maximum externally visible precision.
@JerryCoffin What does "externally visible" mean?
@Borgleader True :)
gcc version 4.8.1 (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.8.1-10ubuntu9)
Hell. It consistently reported 0 today :/
"Doesn't work on my machine"?
03:16
nothing reports 0 for me
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah. I'll have to check why later.
weird
@R.MartinhoFernandes In a typical case, it means anything you see outside the floating-point unit proper. This is the sort of problem that led Lorentz to discover "strange attractors". He'd save an intermediate state of a calculation to the maximum available precision, but that still lost enough precision that when he restarted, he got completely different results from when he just continued with the numbers already in the computer.
+113 so far. Not bad for 3:17am
(Don't pretend you don't care)
user3010322
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I don't care, but I'm happy for you.
user3010322
03:17
Is that okay?
I don't pretend.
Aaaaand I don't care
I just don't care
High-five
user3010322
\o
o/
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I'm so envy, I'm eating my fingers to bear with it
03:18
I played some more SS13
It's fun
user3010322
░░░|█▓(¯`:´¯).█▓█▓█▓█.(¯`:´¯).█▓█▓█▓█.(¯`:´¯).▓█|
░░|▓(¯ `·.\\|/.·´¯)▓█▓█ (¯ `·.\\|/.·´¯)▓█▓█ (¯ `·.\\|/.·´¯)▓|
░|█▓(¯ `·.(█).·´¯)░░ ░░(¯ `·.(█).·´¯)░░:░░(¯ `·.(█).·´¯)▓█|
░|█▓(_.·´//:\\`·._)░░:░░(_.·´//'\\`·._)░░:░░(_.·´//'\\`·._)▓█|
░|█▓█▓.(_.:._).░░░░░░░.(_.:':._).░░░░░░░.(_.:._).'▓█▓█|
░|█▓█▓█|░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░|█▓█▓█|
░|█▓█░░░░▄██▄░╔═╗░╔╗░░░░╔╦═╗░▄██▄░░░░█▓█|
░|█▓█▐▄░▐█░▀▄▌║╚╬╦╬╬═╦═╦╝║═╣▐▄▀░█▌░▄▌█▓█|
░|█▓█▐██▄▀█▄░▌║╔╣╔╣║╩╣║║╬╠═║▐░▄█▀▄██▌█▓█|
░|█▓█░████▄█▌░╚╝╚╝╚╩═╩╩╩═╩═╝░▐█▄████░█▓█|
(see full text)
@JerryCoffin But guard digits are still observable are they not?
I think it says friends
user3010322
It's what explodes out of the air when two ASCII high-fives meet.
03:19
And if so, they can be stored along.
what's that?
And do they matter for ==?
I see something like exactly this:
@JerryCoffin That just reads to me like there's some hidden precision to the mantissa. I don't think c++ allows it (see the quote from cppreference). Do you agree that it's non-trivial yet? I won't say it's hard (I just rolled one today, and it didn't take an hour, but I spent some time testing it, and yes, I needed to fix it)
@R.MartinhoFernandes In the long term, yes, but generally not directly available.
03:20
Looks like an explosion alright
they are flowers
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus Fixed-ish, I think
silly
Also there are tentacles or some shit what
jesus
do I have to explain everything?
user3010322
03:21
It's a Swan. :c
oh, yeah
actually, it's probably a swan
funky shadows
@Jefffrey Took me a while to realise the flamingo head pattern in its body is just the shadow of another flamingo.
well, it's a bird. that's all that matters
I'mma sleep now. Thanks jefff
user3010322
03:23
std::string is good enough for me, it seems~
@sehe night
@sehe nightiez :P
user3010322
Does std::locale handle encoding?
std::string hates you
@R.MartinhoFernandes What if it isn't!?
user3010322
03:23
Or is that the std::codecvt nonsense?
@ThePhD urrfff. Talk to rubenvb. Also did you mean to_string?
It told me
That jerk
Don't trust it
It'll kill you
user3010322
I already don't trust it.
user3010322
I've trapped it.
Space it
03:24
from orbit
user3010322
Encaged it within base_string and launched it into space, sending with it encoding information.
@Jefffrey <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
user3010322
Quite honestly my base_string class could be better expressed as a std::tuple<std::string, encoder>
user3010322
But pass that through to functions would be somewhat ridiculous.
03:27
wait a fucking second
user3010322
So in the end, String.
where is my hat?
user3010322
I ate it.
NOOOOOOOOO
it ended
my hat's still visible for me. Guess I'll have to stay signed in and not refresh for a year!
03:29
well, too bad
OH NO, HATS!
i don't wanna whine like a bohemian about it
user3010322
Hm.
user3010322
This is tough.
you are tough too
you can do this
user3010322
03:31
my String::Format takes a variadic number of arguments with typename... Tn. In the end, I want to convert all of them.
user3010322
But, in my current implementation, I would only be able to convert them one by one to their appropriate strings, and then move them in.
user3010322
There's also the case if it's already a string, I don't want to copy the string.
user3010322
So what I want to do is serialize all the values up-front into an array of std::string, and then access that array.
user3010322
But I want to also avoid copying arguments that are already a std::string of some variant.
user3010322
03:33
String::Format( "{0} woof woof {1} arf arf {0}", "woof", a_string );
user3010322
My current implementation would turn both of these into a std::stirng and insert them into the string.
user3010322
However, it would do this conversion twice for the {0} param.
user3010322
Which is a waste.
my implementation just uses std::istringstream
you wanna see mine?
user3010322
You filthy cheater.
You're fine. Headwise. Troublewise, you're in a lot of it.
@Rapptz are you gonna do all the funky C# format string syntax things?
I was going to
user3010322
I'm not.
it proved to be pretty difficult but I'm still going to try
user3010322
03:35
Because it's locale-dependent and crap.
ftr, is_digit uses locale
user3010322
All that formatting information and identifiers and shit.
user3010322
Sccccccrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrew that.
Anyway, mine's okay.
user3010322
I'll do it for bus, but I ain't touching it here.
user3010322
03:37
Heaven's no.
I think it has a few escaping quirks but when I tested it it was fine
user3010322
But, uh
user3010322
Yeah
user3010322
I haven't figured out how to do my funkiness yet. =/
user3010322
I need a container
user3010322
03:40
a std::array<convert_to_string_or_just_view_if_it_already_is>
just use stringstream
I don't get why you're allergic to it
Maybe after 100k I'll run for 100 gold badges
user3010322
04:03
@Rapptz You can't make me. :c
whatever, suck more
user3010322
=[
04:17
hats are gone :(
hahaha
poor thing
all the hard work lasted like 2 weeks
@Telkitty Three, I think, not that it makes any real difference.
That's what so good about losers like us: since I have never tried very hard on anything, there's not really any regret either. And there are always plenty of things on my "I want to do list". When one fail over, immediately move to another. Down side is you never succeed, but on the upper side you get experiment a lot of interesting things life has to offer!
My motto in life is: happy people are all losers, but they are so happy with the things are, they don't give a damn.
04:37
@Rapptz Premature optimization?
user3010322
04:49
Probably.
user3010322
@Rapptz If you spot any other places that need cleaning, let me know.
user3010322
I'm pretty sure I cleaned all of Flac's implementation.
user3010322
No more lexical cast either.
I'm wondering why all these apps are under sys.
user3010322
?
04:52
Bunch of apps on my phone
like Facebook.. Twitter, some LG garbage
user3010322
Shoulda got a nexus.
It's not much effort to remove, I just don't get why.
user3010322
To make sure they stay there, of course!
user3010322
Lol.
user3010322
I'm going to label all my concepts C.
user3010322
05:05
CAllocator
user3010322
Ahh wait damnit
user3010322
That looks like that strange, horrible Windows Library.
user3010322
What's it called?
user3010322
.... No, MFC.
user3010322
ATL?
user3010322
05:05
Fucking. MFC. Can't use C because of that shit.
user3010322
What do I call it, hm.
user3010322
T for template typenames, I guess maybe Con for concept?
Allocator you noob
user3010322
Or just [X]Concept
do you even know what namespaces are
@@@@@@
user3010322
05:06
I'm not stuffing every single concept I have into a Concept namespaces.
user3010322
Don't look at me like that!
all my concepts are under gears::concepts
user3010322
Yeaaaah, exceeept.
go on, what's your silly excuse?
user3010322
05:13
Nothing, I just don't want all my concepts in a concepts namespace.
prefixing class names isn't any better
same shit as hungarian notation
user3010322
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhrug.
@Rapptz Not quite the same -- if anything even less meaningful, and therefore even less defensible.
So Hungarian Notation is obsolete?
Hungarian notation sucks
user3010322
05:17
I desperately need
user3010322
string_base_view<TEncoding, TChar, TTraits, TAlloc> u.u
user3010322
Someone write it for me.
user3010322
Chop chop!
@Domecraft It was obsolete somewhat before it was invented. It (arguably) made a little sense with ancient assemblers that had essentially no type enforcement at all, but in current C++, I see little (if anything) you can even hope to gain from it.
Tell that to MSDN
05:19
@ThePhD Looks like a fine question for SO.
user3010322
@JerryCoffin Hehe.
user3010322
It's alright, I'll end up writing it and updating the shit out of my API.
70
Q: What is the benefit of not using Hungarian notation?

user29981One of the things I struggle with is not using Hungarian notation. I don't want to have to go to the variable definition just to see what type it is. When a project gets extensive, it's nice to be able to look at a variable prefixed by 'bool' and know that it's looking for true/false instead of...

@Borgleader If you look carefully, you'll notice that even MS is mostly moving away from the practice.
You're welcome
05:29
Livestreamer is a Command Line Interface that pipes video streams from various services into a video player, such as VLC.
Aww yes, Ive been wanting that for quite some time.
I tried to make it but yknow I suck so... I failed
user3010322
05:58
Sounds sexy.
I need to shift my sleep schedule back before I get back to work.
sleepSchedule << numHours;
done
user3010322
Wait
user3010322
It's like 1 AM here
user3010322
That means it's like 8 AM for you
user3010322
06:03
What the hell, Robot
user3010322
plug yourself back into the outlet. D:<
Since there is no Objective C talk room... can anyone suggest a good book for Objective?
There are none because Objective-C is objectively bad.
Nice, but iOS apps are developed in Objective C, so it serves a purpose.
@ThePhD Well, 7.
06:08
I found Programming iOS 6 by Matt Neuberg useful. It's been recently updated, too (like this week!)
@BuddhistBeast Its only relevance or purpose.
morning all
06:36
@R.MartinhoFernandes what are you still doing up :D
@melak47 You're in the same city!
whistles
@BartekBanachewicz Did you install 32- or 64-bit Python?
The official vim installer installs a 32-bit binary, and that doesn't quite work with Python's 64-bit DLLs.
There's a 64-bit build here: code.google.com/p/vim-win3264, but that's 7.3, not 7.4.
@R.MartinhoFernandes shouldnt you be sleeping?
No. Can't sleep now.
06:43
You're staying up all day?
No.
I'm going to bed early today.
8 is late. 20 is early.
user3010322
Lol.
why's your sleep schedule so messed up? :)
user3010322
German Sleeptalking.
user3010322
It's reached the Advanced Stages now.
user3010322
06:47
This often happens to non-natives who are new to its deadly sting.
@BuddhistBeast You can also use C++ for that.
user3010322
I've always wondered
user3010322
How the hell do you communicate with Mac OSX through C++?
user3010322
Like, what's the canonical Mac OSX api written in?
user3010322
Do you interop with Objective-C?
06:48
@ThePhD There's a C API. And there's a ObjC/C++ binding Called Objective-C++.
user3010322
Oh, okay.
user3010322
I've never ever touched the Mac OSX C API.
user3010322
Or even heard of it.
That is, you can put C++ code in an Objective-C file.
user3010322
It's always been Linux or Windows.
06:49
ObjC is a superset of C, and ObjC++ is a superset of C++.
user3010322
2 days until my Ludia interview. I'm so restless... :c
@melak47 Train sleeping.
Why is it that phones never autocorrect my fucks, shits, damns, or any other swear word :(
I'm an adult damn it. I can swear all I want.
@EtiennedeMartel [C ++] :p
@R.MartinhoFernandes at least you have an excuse :/
@Rapptz duck you
well, I'm going to sleep now. good morning :)
user3010322
Good morning. :D
06:58
Robot Santa == R. Martin-Ho
I did give out gifts like mad.
Giving a late one tomorrow. I mean, today.
This afternoon.
omfg Top Gear Africa Special
this is fucking hilarious
Sit in restaurant waiting 4 ppl again ...
@R.MartinhoFernandes Then we should call you Martin-Ho-Ho-Ho ! ;)
Martin-hoe-hoe-whore?
07:09
Yes, you're very funny.
Martin James might get all excited :p
Its like monads but for C++
07:15
What?
The monad tutorial saga is on a whole other level.
Hmm, perhaps, but there are similarities.
Where'd the monad conversation come from?
@Rapptz "Oh noes, yet another monad tutorial"
I am hungry, some people are late & I am sitting in a ribs & rumps restaurant ... Waiting ...
07:16
Right.
With another friend ...
@Rapptz wat robot said, and sry for the late reply, my maid shoed me out, to clean my room.
Mr.McFancyPants has a maid
Everyone does here in my country :P To be honest she's been with us for so long, she's like family.
That reminds me I scheduled today as cleaning-my-room day.
07:22
Good luck with that :P
When I lived in South America I had a lot of maids
they lived with us etc
We just have one, she's been with us for 10 years.
Every now and then, she hits me for becoming too fat XD
I only remember two, but one particularly.
He used to play video games with me all the time.
You were very young I assume.
Yes.
It was the only mansion I lived in.
was pretty cool back then
even though a lot of things happened, like I broke my chin and had to get stitches since the floor was made of marble lol
07:25
Yikes, sounds nasty.
I had to get stitches because my eyebrows fell off when I was young.
Boy, that was a horrible time.
Fun fact: Every male in my family has broken their chin. (My brother, my dad, and I)
I think my brother had it the worst though.
My uncle was tossing him in the air and forgot about him in the air and answered the phone.
ahahahahaha
Look ma, I can fly.......bam!
I have never lived in a mansion before, but I have lived in 3 tents in my life.
07:28
@Telkitty Me and a couple of my friends used to camp outside in our back yard back in Poland.
OK. This is interesting.
My 2 years old daughter has hit a new phase.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I assumed it happened super fast.
Whenever I say something to her she does not like, she repeats it back at me frowning.
07:29
@wilx Effective.
It is hard not to laugh at that.
@wilx Well at least she says something, whenever I tell my little cousin to study, she just kicks me and runs of laughing.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah. There's an important lesson there somewhere.
@Rapptz Ninja reflexes aren't always good?
I broke my chin because I was fucking around like a typical kid and fell off the couch into my face.
07:31
@Rapptz I think your family has long chins.
They don't
Neat, there's a precomposed small letter z with acute.
It's just a strange coincidence.
coincidence >.>
anyhoo, @Rapptz Have you watched any good anime recently?
nope
07:35
btw, anyone seen mystical lately?
Someone call me?
@Mysticial I can't recognize you without haqua! :P
@Mysticial Nope. They called someone without an i.
So what are some good apps to get on Android?
I just switched over from iOS and I'm bored
@R.MartinhoFernandes Fuck... I fell victim to my own name.
07:36
@Mysticial Yup, how ya been?
@Mysticial ahahahha
@GamesBrainiac nothing interesting. lol
@Mysticial watch any good anime this season?
We're at the end of the current season.
So nothing new for a while.
I'll be waiting to see what's new in the next few weeks.
Hmm, I was thinking of watching Log Horizon, but sounds like a copy of SAO.
@Mysticial if you want tomorrow i could benchmark your pi program on a raspberry pi ;)
07:39
Can raspberry Pi run an x86 application?
no but gcc can compile to ARM, unless you use x86 specific stuff :v
could try mini-pi
@Mysticial It's ARM =/
compile mini-pi to ARM
y-cruncher doesn't require x86. It can compile on other arch as well. But there are some requirements that cannot be compromised:
1. C++11
2. POSIX or WinAPI
3. Little-endian
4. Misaligned memory access
5. Sign-fill arithmetic shift
6. Strict IEEE Double Precision FP
And no padding in any native integer type.
Well, I got g++ and clang installed so I could take a crack at it
07:43
Well, I'd have to cross-compile it.
@Rapptz I use mostly stock or service-specific apps.
What do you call the thing that receives an award? Awardee?
the winner. lol
@R.MartinhoFernandes Recipient?
"Awardee" is "The recipient of an award." according to the internets, but my spell checker is objecting to it
@Mysticial I don't think that applies unless it's actually a competition.

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