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22:00
I'm already so far in, it would be a waste to stop reading...
@StackedCrooked There is some in OP.
@EtiennedeMartel OP is just great. If it wasn't you'd have stopped long time ago.
Ell
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz I don't want to use webgl because it's too low level, and I don't like javascript or html. and IME web apps suck. Also libgdx does desktop + android too
@StackedCrooked Indeed it is.
But the reason why I keep reading it and not similarly great mangas is because of that double standard.
@Ell why do web apps suck?
Ell
Ell
22:01
@BartekBanachewicz Just IME
because they are slow
and difficult to use
web apps are difficult to use o_O?
what have you been smoking?
Ell
Ell
IME
and it is very evident that I'm in a browser
which isn't the experience I'm looking for
I think it's more prejudice and FUD than "IME"
Ell
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz It's not
if I didn't have personal experience why would I say it in the first place?
It's not like I'm emotionally attached to java - far from it
OP is huge in Japan. You find OP souvenirs in all shops. Even in the souvenir shops of Kyoto's temples. (And only OP, no other mangas.)
Ell
Ell
22:02
It's just the easiest for me
@StackedCrooked Mangas are a kinda small market in Japan.
@Ell I am saying that your experience might be biased, because browser responsiveness tests show rather amazing numbers
They're usually not part of the mainstream.
OP is one of the exceptions.
@Ell whatever suits you, you might even find a job as a Java developer
@BartekBanachewicz ohohoho, no need to insult him now!!
22:03
I was hearing Java is used a lot in the industry vOv
Ell
Ell
Haha
Q: What is the temperature inside a tauntaun
A: Luke warm
@Ell getting real for a moment, browsers still do kinda suck, but I think the ideology is good and we should strive for that goal.
Ell
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz I do think we should strive for the goal, I just don't think we are quite there yet
but I do agree with the ideology
22:04
@Ell But since JS community is made of JS idiots, it needs some competent programmers like me (totally no irony no not at all) to push it forward and say things that suck loudly.
Ell
Ell
yeah
also WebGL is actually better than OpenGL :D
Ell
Ell
Is it?
> By far the favorite manga among the men and women polled is One Piece—followed by Dragon Ball, Slam Dunk, and Naruto for men and Slam Dunk, Kimi ni Todoke, and NANA, for women. Unsurprisingly then, the most popular character for both genders is Monkey D. Luffy (One Piece). In fact, of the top five characters, three are from One Piece (though which three vary between men and women).
Yeah!
@Ell Yeah, the API has been fixed in few places, and the things that were ints in C are now numbers in JS so that doesn't hurt really.
it's obviously by far less powerful, but still more than enough to make amazing stuff in it
22:07
this is rather annoying
@nightcracker haha typical social marketing "constant 1"
I don't have any hats =/
user1804599
Man.
user1804599
I wish Go had operator overloading for custom types and overloading in general.
Go no go.
@rightfold It does not have overloading? Odd.
Does Rust have op overloading?
2
A: Rust custom operators

dbauppNo, the only that can be overloaded are: +, - (both unary and binary), *, /, %, &, |, ^, <<, >>, ! (unary) and [] (the index operator) (See the wiki and/or the manual.)

hmhm
22:17
@BartekBanachewicz "only ones" seems like most to me
@Borgleader Haskell treats any blob of non-alphanumeric characters as an operator you can overload
also you can call any function in infix notation using `quoting`
@rightfold switch to Ruby: problem solved.
defining your own operators is really dumb
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah I actually consider (probably wrongly) "operator overloading" and "defining your own operators" two totally different thing
@Rapptz why? Parsec uses it for Great Good™
22:20
because it leads to an unreadable mess
also yeah ^ it does tend to do that
@Rapptz I think Parsec code is way more readable now than it would be without custom ops
just look at Spirit
Also arrows
@Rapptz Generalizing™
trial <- P.toListM $ names >-> P.take n unreadable?!
22:21
and I dunno, everything?
@LucDanton yes
map["something"] = else is much more readable than map.insert_if_present_otherwise_set("something", else)
@LucDanton yes
you need to know what those mean
Not to count all the bits operators of std::bitset
22:22
@Jefffrey congratulations on missing the point
just like you need to know what member functions mean
once you know, it's perfectly readable.
It's actually a fairly bad example that's easy to parse because <- isn't an operator :( I used to have better examples but I tweaked them not two hours ago lol.
@Jefffrey the point <<----------- a mile ---------->> you
Also a $ b x is way better than a (b x)
22:23
@rightfold pretty prolific. keep going :)
@Borgleader can you bring me closer?
i could remove a few - but too lazy :P
@BartekBanachewicz that's not a user defined operator (so it's irrelevant)
user3010322
Hm.
user3010322
I have to invent my own GLSL pseudo defines
user3010322
22:24
How nice.
Perhaps each =<< lift (map choose `liftM` getRandoms), considering that `liftM` should really be <$>. Needs moar <-< >->!
@Rapptz eh, I think the border between "user" and "library " is really blurred
@Borgleader wait.. you don't even know what the point is, either. Do you?
@BartekBanachewicz Not really.
@Rapptz so is Applicative.(<$>) user-defined or not?
22:25
@Jefffrey Yes, were discussing defining your own operators, you went and used [], which is overloaded not user defined as in idk operator ???
No it isn't.
@BartekBanachewicz Assertive, just for you.
the whole point of that is that libraries bring new operators.
@Borgleader oh.
22:26
@LucDanton Operator tie-fighter?
didn't know there was suck a thing
scala, haskell and others allow you to make up your own operators
one of my TAs actually made operator ??? which essentially just threw NotImplementedException
@Rapptz I wouldn't make an op for logic for one particular program, though. But in well-known libraries, I think they are perfectly OK.
@Borgleader but I sure as hell would overload the "mile" (<<--------------------->>) operator
Because most of people know what do >>= stands for, but they don't necessarily need to read what my <%^^ does
22:27
@BartekBanachewicz A language defined operator is one that can be available to everyone and everything which means that the user of the language has a precognition of its existence through learning the language itself. A user defined operator is one where someone, outside of the language (or standard library in Haskell's case) defined that has to be learned (or possibly abused) for that one specific library and is only readable to those who use it.
Google motto 2004: Don't be evil Google motto 2010: Evil is tricky to define Google motto 2013: We make military robots
@Rapptz So you think that Monad and Applicative shouldn't bring in operators? Sincere Q.
ahahaha
@BartekBanachewicz No, I didn't say that.
@Rapptz that's why I asked, to clarify.
So I think we essentially agree on the fact that as long they are not abused and their meaning is clear, they are not that bad.
22:30
<$> for example is well defined in what it does because you learn it through using the language itself. But if I make an operator like <^~^> then the only people who will know what that is would be the people who use that library, but outside of that people would be confused as to what that is.
even library users will be confused the first time
What about <>, <|>, .|.? How familiar are you with these? They're all in the base package.
of those I only know or have seen the first two
Hmm, I really should learn F# >.>
Data.Monoid, Control.Applicative and Data.Bits respectively.
Oh ya </> for combining FilePath lol.
22:36
I like that in (boos)t filesystem
type FilePath = String though.
0
Q: Anyone knows *08FA77CAB469297F05D?

user10910I need decrypt this text, but i don't know the crypto ): Help me. More few pass: *6387DC55D6497DD2F01 *08FA77CAB469297F05D *7BA8FAFA952B2000D22 Thanks

rofl
@sehe initially I thought it was abuse of operator overloading but it's not so bad.
How do you feel about 'exotic' Num instances? Better dig an example...
Ah nevermind, Control.Foldl does not have such things.
@sehe @R.MartinhoFernandes Where should I get vim for windows with python support?
22:41
@Rapptz the best part is that it at once hides platform specific details
AFAIK the standard installer has Python support enabled.
@BartekBanachewicz hell do I know. I suppose you could try www.vim.org
> For those running PHP on IIS under a 64-bit system, but running IIS in 32-bit mode, you will need to grant the IUSR_<machinename> user Read & Execute / Read permissions not on the C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\cmd.exe file, but instead on the C:\WINDOWS\SysWOW64\cmd.exe - which is the 32-bit version of the command prompt. (Windows making sense)
@R.MartinhoFernandes -python -python3
No python/dyn?
Xeo
Xeo
22:42
> Kriegt er nicht gebacken: Neue Rezeptur zu anspruchsvoll für Konditor
Oh Postillon
And with that, I guess it's time for me to go to sleep. Stupid customs.
@R.MartinhoFernandes hm?
The official installer comes with +python/dyn +python3/dyn
I don't see anything like that
Oh, are you using the command-line version on Windows?
Xeo
Xeo
On the topic of user-defined operators, though: I think if the operator makes sense for the domain, by all means introduce it.
22:43
@BartekBanachewicz look for gvim74.exe or similar
oh wait it's there
!@#$%^%$#@!
@R.MartinhoFernandes sorry, gvim --version
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm using the command line version of Windows.
@sehe I assumed vim and gvim will have the same opts, sorry
22:44
lol
@BartekBanachewicz Why do you want emacs for Mac with Lua support?
-lua :(
@LightnessRacesinOrbit what
fell for it
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I was joking there ;)
@sehe xs == filter bartekFallsForIt xs
22:45
@BartekBanachewicz That's what you said. Well, not entirely, but the words were similar, so I assumed that's what you really meant. Why are you deliberately making yourself so hard to understand? :(
@Jefffrey I saw someone mean it!
@LightnessRacesinOrbit grawrffhaghsfrr
user3010322
Can you provide template specializations of a free function?
I'm not even sure it compiles... lemme check
@BartekBanachewicz Have a nice day :-)
@R.MartinhoFernandes so, what does that mean for me?
22:46
@ThePhD of course
@ThePhD yes, of course. Just not partial.
@Jefffrey it does
@ThePhD Not right now; I'm busy
user3010322
But not partial specializations?
@ThePhD exactly.
user3010322
22:46
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Zing!
user3010322
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Pong!
@BartekBanachewicz When are you going there?
@Rapptz I'm going to use it everywhere now, then
22:47
@ThePhD Pung!
just to piss off lightness
user1804599
I was thinking of being able to mark types as “fundamental” and disallowing creation of fields and variables of those types unless you use strong typedefs.
Xeo
Xeo
@ThePhD You can't partially specialize function templates anyware.
@Jefffrey That's okay. Any move that helps prevent you getting a C++ job and thus spreading your ways around our industry is fine by me ;)
22:48
And, let's not forget, that's about as much a "move" as <utility> std::move! (i.e. none at all)
it's more of a cast, you say
user1804599
So class Point { var x: Int, y: Int } would be illegal, but typedef Int Coordinate; class Point { var x: Coordinate, y: Coordinate } would be fine.
@Jefffrey precisely that
well, okay, not a cast "precisely"
user3010322
It's a type decorator.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit a dick::move
6
user1804599
22:49
Although I think it would quickly get annoying.
user3010322
And it's stupid that it has to be a std:: library thing.
user3010322
I don't know why move, forward, etc. are not language-level supported.
Ell
Ell
Wut
user3010322
I don't want to include headers with other garbage just to get going. u.u
fuck!
22:50
because explicit is better than implicit?
whenever I see 2 stars I feel the urge to star the message myself
Ell
Ell
Apart from pictures
What @ThePhD said. It can take an lvalue and give you an xvalue (of type "rvalue reference to T") in return.
@ThePhD Tell me about it ;(
@ThePhD you already include your headers, har har har.
:P
But no wait C++11 is awesome and I'm just being stubborn to change
22:51
@LightnessRacesinOrbit s/to change//
@LightnessRacesinOrbit at least move semantics exist. Having them that way is better than not having them at all
lack of them was fucking embarrasing
@BartekBanachewicz Oh I thought you were referring to the village in Wales
user1804599
@Jefffrey Dynamic typing is terrible.
@sehe I thought it was a volcano.
The problem with being an amateur programmer is that there are many different ideas floating around about which design patterns, coding methods, etc. are bad, or good, etc. and people all over the internet who have very certain (and often, opposed) stances about those things. How does one figure out who's right?
22:52
5 hours ago, by Rapptz
@RokKralj C++11 is great and those who can't see that are just stubborn to change.
@rightfold It's a subset of static typing; it cannot not be terrible.
@rightfold I agree
@Jefffrey but you get a lot of other, way more pronounced problems
@BartekBanachewicz popcatepetl or ejafjallajökl?
@BartekBanachewicz Moving was already possible
@LightnessRacesinOrbit meh.
Our other office is in Dnepropetrovsk
Another volcano
std::exit(0)?
And now I can't get the "Don't get any downvote for a day" hat :(
user1804599
@Griwes “all people excluding me” is also a subset of “people” and I hate every single element in it.
22:54
That's besides the point.
@MohammadAliBaydoun EXIT_SUCCESS
Oh yeah, that would be better.
@Jefffrey Do you need to actually post something to get that?
If so, I'm never gonna get it. lol
that's what she said
Hi
@Mysticial You need to only get upvotes in a day
Ell
Ell
22:56
Bad taxidermy thread, cracking me up boards.4chan.org/b/res/521734934
Xeo
Xeo
Use takeWhile instead of filter. I am still too bad at Haskell to explain that properly, but it should work. Or actually just take, because it gets first n elements. — Bartek Banachewicz 48 mins ago
Little Bratek commenting on Haskell :3
Oh, damn, I wanted to sleep.
@Ell ooo rofl rfol god don't do this to me
user1804599
If I allow besides strong typedefs also types decorated with units of measurement I think it can be feasable.
user1804599
user1804599
Ha. Noob. :3
@Xeo tec ma te master bartek
I have 0 :>
@rightfold 0 x 0

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