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21:00
@Pawnguy7 At least one week
@Jefffrey what is left to check off your list before that?
Anyone heard of that book? Is it any good?
I'm intrigued.
@Pawnguy7 Make the snake work, create one full level that works, be happy about the interface.
Doesn't it already work?
@EtiennedeMartel Looks cool.
Game semi-worship always concerns me though, personally.
Ell
Ell
21:04
evening all
@caps game worship?
@Pawnguy7 I've redesigned everything, again :/
@caps Games have a lot of growing up to do.
@Pawnguy7 Hard to put into words what I mean.
I enjoyed this book
But he's oohs and ahs over gaming a little bit too much for my taste.
(Well, I haven't finished the book, because the above was so off-putting)
@Jefffrey This advice probably does not mean as much from me. I have never actually tried this, but... set a schedule. Get it doing x by date y, and if the design isn't perfect, too bad. If it works, leave it alone for then.
I myself have had to make many changes to it (for example, snakes can now tie rather than the first one to move dies), but it was fine changing it after.
And as you said, I am (mostly) getting things done.
21:07
I saw, and I'm really happy for you :)
And I've just made the snake work, so I can tick that now.
@sehe the project file that doesn't work has <LinkIncremental>true</LinkIncremental> in it
Speaking of the snake working, there is an issue I sort of worked around.
I have to add pieces backwards for it to work, or something. I should look into that.
@Pawnguy7 And that is a very nice advice, thanks.
Or maybe a deque has push_front. I need to look at it either way.
@Pawnguy7 Yes, it does.
21:09
Ah. That explains it.
Just keep in mind, my code isn't perfect. If it was, I would be stuck like you are.
But for the most part, when I identify issues it has later, I can change it.
For example.
For my slider input, it has a callback when it changes.
But it didn't occur to me until far after to pass the actual value.
Hmm, I think I might be fucking the aliasing right in the ass with a flaming jackhammer.
Xeo
Xeo
Fucking with strict aliasing is not a good idea.
Here's the thing. I got a map of pointers to stuff. I want to know if an object is in the map, but I only need to check the address.
So I got a T *, and my map's keys are U *, and T might not inherit from U.
What's the problem checking the address of the pointer :)?
Xeo
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel Then how could it possibly be in the map?
21:23
@Xeo Exactly. But I don't know that yet. So I'm wondering if I can safely cast that T * into a U *.
@melak47 oh lol. MSVC and "handy" defaults. Thanks for reporting back, though! I'm working with MSVC too these days
you can't.
And then check if it's in the map.
Xeo
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel No
you can make this work but it's going to make you suffer.
21:24
Figured as much.
If one of T or U is not polymorphic (special-case void* here) then it can't be.
Xeo
Xeo
If the pointers are unrelated, it can't possibly be in the map
and you can check that relation statically at compile-time
I think my design stinks.
if they're both polymorphic, use is_base_of.
Xeo
Xeo
Yes
Especially since it seems you're indexing the wrong way or something
21:25
life gets more complicated though
@sehe well that was there because I converted my .exe project to a .lib project. and those should be linker settings, which are replaces by the "Librarian" settings in .lib mode - so they shouldn't have any effect...but maybe they do...blergh
if you can have a Derived : T, U
which is in the map.
In my above example, T does not inherit from U, but some of its subclasses do.
(U is an "interface" in the .NET sense of the word)
yeah, you will have to check every individual pointer for a sidecast.
Xeo
Xeo
21:26
If you have a map<T, U*>, and you're looking for U*, that either suggests a wrong design, or a need for something like boost::bimap
you can attempt a dynamic_cast from T* to U* and then look it up.
Xeo
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel Ah. Cross-cast with dynamic_cast before doing lookup
Well, I got a meeting, but alright. I'll look into dynamic_cast.
Yay for Java++
Xeo
Xeo
Damn. I want some snacks, but I have none here.
That's an unpleasant situation.
21:27
define 'here' @Xeo
Unpleasent spelling even
here as in "I can't reach any snacks from my chair" sort of thing?
Xeo
Xeo
No, "here" as in "at home"
@ScarletAmaranth Well, let's assume (auto-)cannibalism is out.
Xeo
Xeo
and shops are long closed by now
@sehe oops
It's the sweets-deficit, I swear.
21:28
@Xeo fuel station?
Xeo
Xeo
None close that I know of
Also fucking expensive :s
@Xeo just go for the good ol' sugar in water combo then
@Xeo Convincing. Usually, the Cat is the one swearing
Xeo
Xeo
@ScarletAmaranth That would imply me having sugar at home
@Xeo how does one not have sugar at home? o_O
21:29
@Xeo anything at home?
Xeo
Xeo
I have literally a slice of bread left.
@Xeo what do you drink your coffee with?
Xeo
Xeo
@ScarletAmaranth With nothingness.
An empty mug tastes better than coffee.
ummmm... alright?
Xeo
Xeo
(I'm not a coffee drinker)
21:30
@Xeo say again?
@Xeo chew it slowly, it gets sweet
I might be mis-reading something here
Xeo
Xeo
@ScarletAmaranth I was hinting at the fact that I like a mug without anything in it better than a mug filled with coffee.
@MikeM Too slowly for my brain.
@Xeo Otherwise stated: "Xeo has a properly functioning sense of taste."
@Xeo I was hinting at the fact that not drinking coffee is inconceivable
Xeo
Xeo
21:32
@JerryCoffin I also dislike beer.
/A properly sense construction/
Xeo
Xeo
Oh, and to spite you, wine.
@Xeo well, then you're lost...
I dislike beer. I like wine. About one glass in two years.
Beer I dislike, but coffee... coffeeI love
21:33
@MikeM Never had vodka then
@sehe Indeed I never had vodka...
Xeo
Xeo
I dislike many forms of alcohol, apart from Rum. And even then I only like a few specific beverages.
I don't like alcohol... tasts bad...
user3010322
@Xeo HIGH FiVE! \o
user3010322
Coffee is fucking disgusting.
21:35
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Where we sing the chorus of how alcohol stinks as does Etienne's design [c++] [c++11] [c++1y] [no-answers] [no-questions]
user3010322
And people get fucking coffee breath and shit.
Xeo
Xeo
"highive"?
user3010322
@Xeo Oh. Woops.
@ThePhD coffee shit?
21:35
stop hating on coffee o_O
@ThePhD You needed more coffee
user3010322
@sehe I have been up since 5 Am <_>
Xeo
Xeo
Welp, back to reading
user3010322
But it's not even halfway through the day yet.
@ThePhD Not my fault
@JerryCoffin Do you mock my choice of words?! :)
@ScarletAmaranth I never mock (except when doing TDD).
Liar
21:38
That's when he runs amok
@Xeo Some would call that "the exception that proves the rule". I'll just take it as an indication that your sense of taste functions, but is (at least as yet) unrefined.
Xeo
Xeo
/cc @Etienne
user3010322
@Xeo What about me and Rapptz? :c
user3010322
WE LOVE HIM TOO YOU KNOW.
@Xeo Why on Earth do I keep listening to that...
21:45
I'm not even clicking it anymore
@ThePhD should I provide a resize method for Texture, even though it lies to the user and swaps the texture with one of the desired because textures don't resize? :/
hi :)
@Rapptz Fyi - 26 minutes for an initial (bare) checkout. An additional 44 minutes to init/update all submodules. Resulting worktree: 1.3Gb (872MiB in repo) on linux64
@TonyTheLion hello! :)
21:46
hi
I remember you
How's life?
if I use ::operator new I can assume that addresses are at least aligned to 2 bytes, right?
Where you been hiding?
not as busy finally :)
yourself?
I'm alright
bit tired
user3010322
@melak47 Yes?
21:47
@nightcracker I would assume they are CPU word size aligned
tired as in tired right now or tired as in tired as of recent as a result of stuff happening?
user3010322
I mean, I can't see the hurt behind it.
@TonyTheLion that means I have a glorious bit to store - yay!
user3010322
If you're worried about performance, cover it in the docks.
I never thought I would see the day when my struggle is not that my writing was too short, but too long.
21:48
@ThePhD user resizes texture, expects it to still be bound because he just resized it, it isn't, user's feelings are hurt
user3010322
Tell the user to sack the fuck up.
@nightcracker Formally, No. On an Intel (for example) an odd address would be allowable. Practically: yes, almost certainly.
or worse, he expects the contents of the texture to have been resized :E
@ScarletAmaranth tired because long day and didn't sleep so well last night
user3010322
@melak47 Well, before we go any further, what do you mean by "Resize" ?
21:49
@nightcracker why would you want to rely on something like that?
@ThePhD make it so the dimensions match x,y instead of what they are now
user3010322
@melak47 And what happens to the contents?
@ScarletAmaranth saves memory in tight structures
they are gone obviously, since the texture is replaced by a new one :p
user3010322
Then it's not really a resize.
user3010322
21:50
It's just a "we blew shit up, sorry TEE HEE."
user3010322
Just have them make a new texture.
@sehe How get people along with such a large code base?
user3010322
Explicit conventions best conventions.
@ThePhD how the hell am I supposed to resize the contents without rendering them to a render target in between then copying them or some crap :p
my internet so slowww
21:50
Why would you resize a texture?
@MikeM It's not the codebase, silly. It's the repo. Also, shallow clones
user3010322
@melak47 That's the point: you're not supposed to.
Why would you resize a penis?
@CatPlusPlus window size changed -> frame buffer size changed -> g buffer size changed
user3010322
@TonyTheLion There's no reason to resize a penis that's already beyond good enough. <3
21:51
So?
@MikeM I never succeeded in getting the svn checkout completely, so there's comparison
@sehe Well, you never know ;-)
@ThePhD <3
user3010322
@melak47 Destroy and recreate, rebind textures.
@ThePhD yeah, I suppose it's fine :)
21:52
@sehe I've seen a 5million lines of code handled by 5 guys, and that was not nice... so I thought it's even worse there
user3010322
@melak47 That's also an edge case where the renderer should be handling a resize callback or just be monitoring stuff directly.
user3010322
Plus, G-buffers' contents are thrown out every single frame.
user3010322
So it's not like resizing it will hurt anyone's feelings at all.
@ThePhD yeah it doesn't matter there.
user3010322
You'll still be a nice guy. <3
21:54
@ThePhD They hurt mine
@ThePhD it is. :p
@JerryCoffin are you sure?
_"The pointer returned shall be suitably aligned so that it can be converted to a
pointer of any complete object type and then used to access the object or array in the storage allocated (until
the storage is explicitly deallocated by a call to a corresponding deallocation function). "_
> suitably aligned
I would suppose that means at least aligned to the WORD size of your CPU's registers
what is "any complete type"?
fully constructed, I think
Xeo
Xeo
21:56
Not void or just a predeclared struct
@nightcracker Yes, I believe so -- on an Intel, you can access (for example) a dword at an odd address. There is (or at least can be) a substantial speed penalty, but it'll still work.
@JerryCoffin sure, but I'm talking about the return value of ::operator new - not any pointer
@nightcracker Right--the point is you can access any size of item at any address. While alignment can (and will) affect speed, it doesn't prevent code from working.
@MikeM mmm. here's the largest bits:
SLOC	Directory	SLOC-by-Language (Sorted)
157807  spirit          cpp=157794,sh=13
145401  math            cpp=142299,cs=2121,ansic=921,sh=60
139040  phoenix         cpp=139040
92235   fusion          cpp=92235
85351   numeric         cpp=85252,python=56,fortran=43
82369   mpl             cpp=81777,python=592
80468   asio            cpp=79747,xml=488,perl=233
79445   geometry        cpp=78619,xml=671,python=155
72764   graph           cpp=71588,ansic=1063,xml=56,perl=39,sh=12,csh=6
50663   thread          cpp=50663
Total, 2,1Mio lines of code
Totals grouped by language (dominant language first):
cpp:        2080672 (95.50%)
xml:          78693 (3.61%)
python:        8278 (0.38%)
ansic:         5469 (0.25%)
cs:            2121 (0.10%)
sh:            1593 (0.07%)
asm:           1237 (0.06%)
perl:           528 (0.02%)
php:            132 (0.01%)
fortran:         43 (0.00%)
csh:              6 (0.00%)
22:01
It's a language. For markup
it's extensible!
wow thanks. so you have boost in your repo, not as a lib...
@sehe well obvious choice catching you to work on that
@MikeM it's the boost repo. And yes, I have it in my repo (but not modularized, just from the distribution tar ball).
I never realized Spirit and Boost Math were the largest 2 libraries there
Well the code base I refer to was Delphi... you need more lines to accomplish the same as in C++
Amazingly, Spirit is completely married to Proto, Fusion and Phoenix. So that makes it using... 25% of the total code base. Not even counting the ubiquitous parts like mpl/variant/optional/tuple etc
user3010322
22:10
Uhm.
user3010322
Hm.
user3010322
If I have the return type TR and the arguments Tn... of a function in C++,
user3010322
how do I explicitly get the overload that matches that signature?
erm
Tn... could match most anything?
@ThePhD You don't.
try creating a lambda that calls it.
user3010322
22:13
I... .. I don't?
user3010322
Oh.
user3010322
Uh. Well then, alrighty.
user3010322
Are you sure tehre's not?
pretty sure.
user3010322
No decltype( &TLambda::operator( Tn... ) ) type stuff?
22:14
oh, you can just static_cast to the pointer type.
if it's an exact match.
user3010322
Ooh. Okay.
static_cast<Ret(T::*)(Tn...)>(&T::operator())
user3010322
Got it. :D
@sehe dang
so then
eleven weeks.
I think I'mma just kill myself instead
user3010322
22:24
Hang in there. :c
You met with somebody else?
user3010322
Who will tell me I'm horrible if you go away?
everyone
although let's face it, they're not as good as me
user3010322
:D
@Pawnguy7 No, it's eleven weeks until I get to meet with somebody else.
and in the meantime I'mma just be left spinning.
22:26
Did you just (as in the last week or so) meet with somebody?
today was my newest doc appointment
Ah. I forget what was to happen.
fucking nothing
as usual.
that's what was to happen.
there's been no meaningful progress on my case for about six months.
@DeadMG lolzing
maybe more.
22:28
Weeks seem to past faster since I have been busy. Though perhaps they always have, and now I just have places I remember checking dates.
@ThePhD neato
user3010322
Huh?
@Rapptz dot, twopi, circo, fdp
@DeadMG how can it take that long to be referred to a...gastroentologist? or whatever it was?
swamp.
22:29
@ThePhD you sent me 6 pings while I was asleep
they probably only have one gastroenterologist for the entire swamp.
user3010322
Oh. Lawlz.
Nov 9 at 16:44, by DeadMG
thinking about putting me on a waiting list for surgery
he must be a busy guy? :/
and he probably spends 50% or more of his time dealing with old people with cancer- this area is popular for retirement.
22:29
What happened for that?
@Pawnguy7 Surgeon declined to operate on me due to lack of confidence in diagnosis.
So the current plan is randomly pass you around trying to get a diagnosis?
well, my GP did offer me an alternative
which is to simply give up and live the rest of my life like this.
have you considered moving out of the swamp if you wanna live? :E
hmph
user1804599
22:32
lol
user1804599
Notch is writing a game in Dart.
and who'd pay the rent for living in a less swamp-like area?
no way I could hold down a job like this.
Not sure I would consider that an alternative.
You have some problem, and they are trying to find a solution. The "alternative" is not fixing the problem.
posted on December 02, 2013 by Stephan T. Lavavej - MSFT

Although we've listed the C++11 Core Language features available in VS 2013 and the C++11/14 Core Language features available in the Nov 2013 CTP , I haven't published a table on VCBlog. (Previous tables: VS 2008 and VS 2010 , VS 2012 .) MSDN updated...(read more)

Ell
Ell
@deadmg they won't consider exploratory surgery ?
22:40
they really don't want to open me up if they can avoid it.
which isn't surprising because that shit is dangerous.
@Feeds a bit late there
Ell
Ell
Yeah
user3010322
> auto and decltype(auto) return types


No


Yes
user3010322
BOTH SHOULD BE FUCKING NO
user3010322
Fucking void auto return type, fucking up my stack.
22:42
it says "Alpha", it means "Alpha".
return void_function() isn't void?
@ThePhD wut?
user3010322
@melak47 Nothin'. >.>
what's wrong with auto return type?
user3010322
It's handling of void. ._.
user3010322
22:46
3 hours ago, by ThePhD
user image
doesn't corrupt my stack ^_^
must be your fault :3
oh. it does in debug mode. in release returning a void works just fine!
user3010322
Probably because it optimizes out the nonsense.

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